Lia Thomas - Will this change college sports for women or a nothingburger?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She gave an interview for this website that I found interesting:

https://swimswam.com/penns-lia-thomas-opens-up-on-journey-transition-to-womens-swimming/

Honestly she seems like a nice person who just wants to swim. She's not breaking any rules. It's frustrating she is caught in this maelstrom.

In a long article from a little while back, a trans woman described her experience as a runner, first as a man then as a woman. As soon as she transitioned, she stopped competing, because it wasn't fair or right. She continued running, but only for herself. And as the years and decades went by, she noticed her times slowing.

Running slower after decades is also called aging...

In this interview, Lia sounds like a self-absorbed person who doesn't think about what she's doing, only about herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair?

Apparently as long as Lia feels good about herself it’s totally fair. Forget about how her competitors feel. Completely irrelevant.

She's obviously not unintelligent if she attends Penn but it boggles the mind that she could feel any sense of satisfaction in winning these races......I'd be humiliated.

That’s what makes me feel that there is a strong mental illness component to this.

Really? What about all of Will's enablers, starting with his parents and then coaches and others who've allowed this? It is pure selfishness and greed.

Well society has told them that unless they support Lia 100% no matter what, they are not only transphobes, but terrible parents/coaches/support people. This is the problem.

Or - take that clip - add 3 more seconds in spacing over Thomas and you would tie the 15 year old who came in second in last months Juniors. Add another second if you want to beat the 16 year old who won. Now - do the race again and compare with actual college record time - you could go out and buy popcorn and return to your seat after the winner touched and still have time to get comfortable, say hi to your neighbors and then notice that Thomas is finishing. It is why competition is leveled.

She swims fast for her level. Not great, but pretty fast. Go swim PAC 12 or SEC or even BIG10. Here’s an easy question - whose pool record time did she beat?

So it only makes a difference if she’s breaking records at a higher level? What about the actual females she’s beating now? Their feelings and experiences don’t matter?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair?

Apparently as long as Lia feels good about herself it’s totally fair. Forget about how her competitors feel. Completely irrelevant.

She's obviously not unintelligent if she attends Penn but it boggles the mind that she could feel any sense of satisfaction in winning these races......I'd be humiliated.

That’s what makes me feel that there is a strong mental illness component to this.

Really? What about all of Will's enablers, starting with his parents and then coaches and others who've allowed this? It is pure selfishness and greed.

Well society has told them that unless they support Lia 100% no matter what, they are not only transphobes, but terrible parents/coaches/support people. This is the problem.

Or - take that clip - add 3 more seconds in spacing over Thomas and you would tie the 15 year old who came in second in last months Juniors. Add another second if you want to beat the 16 year old who won. Now - do the race again and compare with actual college record time - you could go out and buy popcorn and return to your seat after the winner touched and still have time to get comfortable, say hi to your neighbors and then notice that Thomas is finishing. It is why competition is leveled.

She swims fast for her level. Not great, but pretty fast. Go swim PAC 12 or SEC or even BIG10. Here’s an easy question - whose pool record time did she beat?

So now she’s in the wrong level? So she gets to move up a level because she transitioned? That seems like it wouldn’t be fair either. You seem to be making the opposite case by bringing up levels.

That’s silly. You don’t get that there are levels of competition? Why are you on a sports thread then?

You are missing the point. She competed as a male and was an IVY league swimmer but no where near even qualifying for NCAAs, transitioned to a woman, swam slightly slower than her prior times and now has the fastest NCAA time for women. Moving up multiple levels just by transitioning from male to female. Are their faster women in the world in some events, maybe. But does that make this fair? Absolutely not.

[Anonymous]

Penn has their hands tied. they can not prevent this or they will be sued. big time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She gave an interview for this website that I found interesting:

https://swimswam.com/penns-lia-thomas-opens-up-on-journey-transition-to-womens-swimming/

Honestly she seems like a nice person who just wants to swim. She's not breaking any rules. It's frustrating she is caught in this maelstrom.

In a long article from a little while back, a trans woman described her experience as a runner, first as a man then as a woman. As soon as she transitioned, she stopped competing, because it wasn't fair or right. She continued running, but only for herself. And as the years and decades went by, she noticed her times slowing.

Running slower after decades is also called aging...

In this interview, Lia sounds like a self-absorbed person who doesn't think about what she's doing, only about herself.

And it took that long. Not immediately or shortly after transitioning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair?

Apparently as long as Lia feels good about herself it’s totally fair. Forget about how her competitors feel. Completely irrelevant.

She's obviously not unintelligent if she attends Penn but it boggles the mind that she could feel any sense of satisfaction in winning these races......I'd be humiliated.

That’s what makes me feel that there is a strong mental illness component to this.

Really? What about all of Will's enablers, starting with his parents and then coaches and others who've allowed this? It is pure selfishness and greed.

Well society has told them that unless they support Lia 100% no matter what, they are not only transphobes, but terrible parents/coaches/support people. This is the problem.

Or - take that clip - add 3 more seconds in spacing over Thomas and you would tie the 15 year old who came in second in last months Juniors. Add another second if you want to beat the 16 year old who won. Now - do the race again and compare with actual college record time - you could go out and buy popcorn and return to your seat after the winner touched and still have time to get comfortable, say hi to your neighbors and then notice that Thomas is finishing. It is why competition is leveled.

She swims fast for her level. Not great, but pretty fast. Go swim PAC 12 or SEC or even BIG10. Here’s an easy question - whose pool record time did she beat?

So it only makes a difference if she’s breaking records at a higher level? What about the actual females she’s beating now? Their feelings and experiences don’t matter?

Wait -- so you are an "everyone gets a medal" proponent?

[Anonymous]

Why have women's only events at all? This would have totally demoralized me as a former D1 athlete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Penn has their hands tied. they can not prevent this or they will be sued. big time.

The first school to offer athletic scholarships will have a title IX problem. They will just have to hope the they are in a circuit where judges believe that trans women count as women for balancing purposes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair?

Apparently as long as Lia feels good about herself it’s totally fair. Forget about how her competitors feel. Completely irrelevant.

She's obviously not unintelligent if she attends Penn but it boggles the mind that she could feel any sense of satisfaction in winning these races......I'd be humiliated.

That’s what makes me feel that there is a strong mental illness component to this.

Really? What about all of Will's enablers, starting with his parents and then coaches and others who've allowed this? It is pure selfishness and greed.

Well society has told them that unless they support Lia 100% no matter what, they are not only transphobes, but terrible parents/coaches/support people. This is the problem.

Or - take that clip - add 3 more seconds in spacing over Thomas and you would tie the 15 year old who came in second in last months Juniors. Add another second if you want to beat the 16 year old who won. Now - do the race again and compare with actual college record time - you could go out and buy popcorn and return to your seat after the winner touched and still have time to get comfortable, say hi to your neighbors and then notice that Thomas is finishing. It is why competition is leveled.

She swims fast for her level. Not great, but pretty fast. Go swim PAC 12 or SEC or even BIG10. Here’s an easy question - whose pool record time did she beat?

So it only makes a difference if she’s breaking records at a higher level? What about the actual females she’s beating now? Their feelings and experiences don’t matter?

Wait -- so you are an "everyone gets a medal" proponent?

How did you get that out of my comment? I am 100% the opposite of that.
In this case, if the fastest female swimmer on a team or in a meet gets beat out by a biological male, that means something. She may not have been on track for the Olympics, but taking first place at a meet means something to a lot of these girls. And now they can’t even have that.

Medal for everyone? Man, you were really reaching with that one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair?

Apparently as long as Lia feels good about herself it’s totally fair. Forget about how her competitors feel. Completely irrelevant.

She's obviously not unintelligent if she attends Penn but it boggles the mind that she could feel any sense of satisfaction in winning these races......I'd be humiliated.

That’s what makes me feel that there is a strong mental illness component to this.

Really? What about all of Will's enablers, starting with his parents and then coaches and others who've allowed this? It is pure selfishness and greed.

Well society has told them that unless they support Lia 100% no matter what, they are not only transphobes, but terrible parents/coaches/support people. This is the problem.

Or - take that clip - add 3 more seconds in spacing over Thomas and you would tie the 15 year old who came in second in last months Juniors. Add another second if you want to beat the 16 year old who won. Now - do the race again and compare with actual college record time - you could go out and buy popcorn and return to your seat after the winner touched and still have time to get comfortable, say hi to your neighbors and then notice that Thomas is finishing. It is why competition is leveled.

She swims fast for her level. Not great, but pretty fast. Go swim PAC 12 or SEC or even BIG10. Here’s an easy question - whose pool record time did she beat?

So it only makes a difference if she’s breaking records at a higher level? What about the actual females she’s beating now? Their feelings and experiences don’t matter?

Wait -- so you are an "everyone gets a medal" proponent?

How did you get that out of my comment? I am 100% the opposite of that.
In this case, if the fastest female swimmer on a team or in a meet gets beat out by a biological male, that means something. She may not have been on track for the Olympics, but taking first place at a meet means something to a lot of these girls. And now they can’t even have that.

Medal for everyone? Man, you were really reaching with that one. [/quot


That's exactly "everyone gets a medal".

A trans athlete did well in a not very good competition. Considering her times wouldnt beat a 15 year old and she is a 22-23 year old 5th year college senior whatever shall we do? Give everyone a medal I suppose.

When she wins an Olympic event then, maybe, it will raise the bar. Thomas swims for Penn. Want to actually help women's sports in the State of Pennsylvania? I know. I know. You don't actually want to help women athletes, and this is just a charade so you can broadcast your anti-trans rhetoric, but pretend for the moment. In the State of Pennsylvania, the last pre-covid year (which is the last year we have numbers), in all Pennsylvania high schools the number of opportunities for boys to play sports was 167,431 and the number for girls was 148,998. Now those, by law, need to be close to equal, but they are not, and Pennsylvania is actually one of the better states. Nationally the difference is about 1,100,000 annually. Basically, you need to kill off baseball or boy's basketball for Pennsylvania to comply with a 50 year old law. Nationally, you need to kill off football. And, how many trans-athletes are there running those numbers up? Well, about 30. That's MtF and FtM, and that's both college and high school. So, about 30, across all school sports and all levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair?

Apparently as long as Lia feels good about herself it’s totally fair. Forget about how her competitors feel. Completely irrelevant.

She's obviously not unintelligent if she attends Penn but it boggles the mind that she could feel any sense of satisfaction in winning these races......I'd be humiliated.

That’s what makes me feel that there is a strong mental illness component to this.

Really? What about all of Will's enablers, starting with his parents and then coaches and others who've allowed this? It is pure selfishness and greed.

Well society has told them that unless they support Lia 100% no matter what, they are not only transphobes, but terrible parents/coaches/support people. This is the problem.

Or - take that clip - add 3 more seconds in spacing over Thomas and you would tie the 15 year old who came in second in last months Juniors. Add another second if you want to beat the 16 year old who won. Now - do the race again and compare with actual college record time - you could go out and buy popcorn and return to your seat after the winner touched and still have time to get comfortable, say hi to your neighbors and then notice that Thomas is finishing. It is why competition is leveled.

She swims fast for her level. Not great, but pretty fast. Go swim PAC 12 or SEC or even BIG10. Here’s an easy question - whose pool record time did she beat?

So it only makes a difference if she’s breaking records at a higher level? What about the actual females she’s beating now? Their feelings and experiences don’t matter?

Wait -- so you are an "everyone gets a medal" proponent?

How did you get that out of my comment? I am 100% the opposite of that.
In this case, if the fastest female swimmer on a team or in a meet gets beat out by a biological male, that means something. She may not have been on track for the Olympics, but taking first place at a meet means something to a lot of these girls. And now they can’t even have that.

Medal for everyone? Man, you were really reaching with that one. [/quot


That's exactly "everyone gets a medal".

A trans athlete did well in a not very good competition. Considering her times wouldnt beat a 15 year old and she is a 22-23 year old 5th year college senior whatever shall we do? Give everyone a medal I suppose.

When she wins an Olympic event then, maybe, it will raise the bar. Thomas swims for Penn. Want to actually help women's sports in the State of Pennsylvania? I know. I know. You don't actually want to help women athletes, and this is just a charade so you can broadcast your anti-trans rhetoric, but pretend for the moment. In the State of Pennsylvania, the last pre-covid year (which is the last year we have numbers), in all Pennsylvania high schools the number of opportunities for boys to play sports was 167,431 and the number for girls was 148,998. Now those, by law, need to be close to equal, but they are not, and Pennsylvania is actually one of the better states. Nationally the difference is about 1,100,000 annually. Basically, you need to kill off baseball or boy's basketball for Pennsylvania to comply with a 50 year old law. Nationally, you need to kill off football. And, how many trans-athletes are there running those numbers up? Well, about 30. That's MtF and FtM, and that's both college and high school. So, about 30, across all school sports and all levels.

I’m pretty sure you don’t understand what “everyone gets a medal” means. You’re too busy pushing your “everyone is anti-trans if they don’t accept this” crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair?

Apparently as long as Lia feels good about herself it’s totally fair. Forget about how her competitors feel. Completely irrelevant.

She's obviously not unintelligent if she attends Penn but it boggles the mind that she could feel any sense of satisfaction in winning these races......I'd be humiliated.

That’s what makes me feel that there is a strong mental illness component to this.

Really? What about all of Will's enablers, starting with his parents and then coaches and others who've allowed this? It is pure selfishness and greed.

Well society has told them that unless they support Lia 100% no matter what, they are not only transphobes, but terrible parents/coaches/support people. This is the problem.

I’d like to think that if I were Will’s mother I would be horrified over this and would view myself as an utter failure as a parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair?

Apparently as long as Lia feels good about herself it’s totally fair. Forget about how her competitors feel. Completely irrelevant.

She's obviously not unintelligent if she attends Penn but it boggles the mind that she could feel any sense of satisfaction in winning these races......I'd be humiliated.

That’s what makes me feel that there is a strong mental illness component to this.

Really? What about all of Will's enablers, starting with his parents and then coaches and others who've allowed this? It is pure selfishness and greed.

Well society has told them that unless they support Lia 100% no matter what, they are not only transphobes, but terrible parents/coaches/support people. This is the problem.

Or - take that clip - add 3 more seconds in spacing over Thomas and you would tie the 15 year old who came in second in last months Juniors. Add another second if you want to beat the 16 year old who won. Now - do the race again and compare with actual college record time - you could go out and buy popcorn and return to your seat after the winner touched and still have time to get comfortable, say hi to your neighbors and then notice that Thomas is finishing. It is why competition is leveled.

She swims fast for her level. Not great, but pretty fast. Go swim PAC 12 or SEC or even BIG10. Here’s an easy question - whose pool record time did she beat?

So it only makes a difference if she’s breaking records at a higher level? What about the actual females she’s beating now? Their feelings and experiences don’t matter?

Wait -- so you are an "everyone gets a medal" proponent?

Dp By your logic we shouldn't have any age limits. 18 years of age should be allowed to compete against 11 year old soccer players. Wait, who cares if the 18 year olds destroy the kids. Wouldn't want them to be snowflakes!
\

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is fair?

Apparently as long as Lia feels good about herself it’s totally fair. Forget about how her competitors feel. Completely irrelevant.

She's obviously not unintelligent if she attends Penn but it boggles the mind that she could feel any sense of satisfaction in winning these races......I'd be humiliated.

That’s what makes me feel that there is a strong mental illness component to this.

Really? What about all of Will's enablers, starting with his parents and then coaches and others who've allowed this? It is pure selfishness and greed.

Well society has told them that unless they support Lia 100% no matter what, they are not only transphobes, but terrible parents/coaches/support people. This is the problem.

Or - take that clip - add 3 more seconds in spacing over Thomas and you would tie the 15 year old who came in second in last months Juniors. Add another second if you want to beat the 16 year old who won. Now - do the race again and compare with actual college record time - you could go out and buy popcorn and return to your seat after the winner touched and still have time to get comfortable, say hi to your neighbors and then notice that Thomas is finishing. It is why competition is leveled.

She swims fast for her level. Not great, but pretty fast. Go swim PAC 12 or SEC or even BIG10. Here’s an easy question - whose pool record time did she beat?

So it only makes a difference if she’s breaking records at a higher level? What about the actual females she’s beating now? Their feelings and experiences don’t matter?

Wait -- so you are an "everyone gets a medal" proponent?

Dp By your logic we shouldn't have any age limits. 18 years of age should be allowed to compete against 11 year old soccer players. Wait, who cares if the 18 year olds destroy the kids. Wouldn't want them to be snowflakes!
\

And only Olympic level athletes get medals, according to PP. High school sports, summer swim league, college swimming…they get nothing. Because either you’re giving Olympic medals to the best, or your giving a medal to absolutely everyone!

[Anonymous]

Typical everyone gets a medal claptrap. But my kid is special. They should get a medal. If Thomas, a 5th year senior, cant beat the time of 15 and 16 year olds this year -- my lands, get the smelling salts.

If you could wait until the NCAA record holder finished, get up, go buy popcorn and return to your seat before Thomas finishes -- you are just being anti-trans. Do you seriously think women on these teams are trying to qualify for the Olympics?

Here -- if you want something else to get mad about Penn sports the men's basketball team refuses to stand for the National Anthem at any games.