Why is ante bellum racist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please, please stop.

There are no standard measurements for things like evil inflicted or pain suffered. There is nothing to be gained from weighing one atrocity versus another. The compassion we feel for the victims of one atrocity doesn’t limit the compassion we feel for the victims of the other. One person’s pain doesn’t negate another’s.

There’s no good reason for this divisiveness.

Unfortunately, divisiveness is inevitable when anyone tries to argue that it is objectively wrong to wear a certain type of dress. There is no objective standard for such things and there never will be.

I think you’ve moved into silly territory when you claim that “divisiveness is inevitable” when someone tries to tell you that your random party clothes are offensive. If you really aren’t willing to examine why you feel the need to get duded up in clothes to play slavemistress, that’s wholly on you, not on those of us who shame you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please, please stop.

There are no standard measurements for things like evil inflicted or pain suffered. There is nothing to be gained from weighing one atrocity versus another. The compassion we feel for the victims of one atrocity doesn’t limit the compassion we feel for the victims of the other. One person’s pain doesn’t negate another’s.

There’s no good reason for this divisiveness.

Unfortunately, divisiveness is inevitable when anyone tries to argue that it is objectively wrong to wear a certain type of dress. There is no objective standard for such things and there never will be.

I think you’ve moved into silly territory when you claim that “divisiveness is inevitable” when someone tries to tell you that your random party clothes are offensive. If you really aren’t willing to examine why you feel the need to get duded up in clothes to play slavemistress, that’s wholly on you, not on those of us who shame you.

No, I understand you feel offended. I just don't think you should be and you will never convince me your feelings have an objective basis. But personally, I don't actually want to offend you if you feel that strongly about it, so I don't actually do that.

In 1984, I did something that was not, so far as I knew, considered offensive then, but would be now. I am not ashamed of it, but I am really happy there was no Internet so you can see a picture of it and tell me that, objectively speaking, I am a horrible person and that I need to examine my feelings on why I did something 35 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please, please stop.

There are no standard measurements for things like evil inflicted or pain suffered. There is nothing to be gained from weighing one atrocity versus another. The compassion we feel for the victims of one atrocity doesn’t limit the compassion we feel for the victims of the other. One person’s pain doesn’t negate another’s.

There’s no good reason for this divisiveness.

Unfortunately, divisiveness is inevitable when anyone tries to argue that it is objectively wrong to wear a certain type of dress. There is no objective standard for such things and there never will be.

I think you’ve moved into silly territory when you claim that “divisiveness is inevitable” when someone tries to tell you that your random party clothes are offensive. If you really aren’t willing to examine why you feel the need to get duded up in clothes to play slavemistress, that’s wholly on you, not on those of us who shame you.

No, I understand you feel offended. I just don't think you should be and you will never convince me your feelings have an objective basis. But personally, I don't actually want to offend you if you feel that strongly about it, so I don't actually do that.

In 1984, I did something that was not, so far as I knew, considered offensive then, but would be now. I am not ashamed of it, but I am really happy there was no Internet so you can see a picture of it and tell me that, objectively speaking, I am a horrible person and that I need to examine my feelings on why I did something 35 years ago.

And this is what is awesome about you. Why some call this “pc” and get all annoyed by it, I will never get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please, please stop.

There are no standard measurements for things like evil inflicted or pain suffered. There is nothing to be gained from weighing one atrocity versus another. The compassion we feel for the victims of one atrocity doesn’t limit the compassion we feel for the victims of the other. One person’s pain doesn’t negate another’s.

There’s no good reason for this divisiveness.

Unfortunately, divisiveness is inevitable when anyone tries to argue that it is objectively wrong to wear a certain type of dress. There is no objective standard for such things and there never will be.

I think you’ve moved into silly territory when you claim that “divisiveness is inevitable” when someone tries to tell you that your random party clothes are offensive. If you really aren’t willing to examine why you feel the need to get duded up in clothes to play slavemistress, that’s wholly on you, not on those of us who shame you.

No, I understand you feel offended. I just don't think you should be and you will never convince me your feelings have an objective basis. But personally, I don't actually want to offend you if you feel that strongly about it, so I don't actually do that.

In 1984, I did something that was not, so far as I knew, considered offensive then, but would be now. I am not ashamed of it, but I am really happy there was no Internet so you can see a picture of it and tell me that, objectively speaking, I am a horrible person and that I need to examine my feelings on why I did something 35 years ago.

And this is what is awesome about you. Why some call this “pc” and get all annoyed by it, I will never get.

Thank you. But that's what PC was in 1984. Now it's something much harsher, where the person who mistakenly did something wrong in the past becomes a pariah forever.

Nathaniel Hawthorne wrote "The Scarlet Letter" about this attitude towards people who violate social mores. It's a great lesson about what how you should act towards people who offend you, or do worse than that. We are forgetting that lesson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The south has suffered grievously from the institution of slavery. It was a terrible error.

And it also profited greatly.

All by choice.

As did the North with their factories that needed cotton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The south has suffered grievously from the institution of slavery. It was a terrible error.

And it also profited greatly.

All by choice.

As did the North with their factories that needed cotton.

Yes, we ALL owe much to the enslaved people who toiled and died for our country.

Fortunately, the North didn't outlaw abolitionism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The south has suffered grievously from the institution of slavery. It was a terrible error.

And it also profited greatly.

All by choice.

As did the North with their factories that needed cotton.

Yes, we ALL owe much to the enslaved people who toiled and died for our country.

Fortunately, the North didn't outlaw abolitionism.

Fortunes, however, were made by the industrialists and factory owners, with homes, universities, colleges, and government buildings standing today as evidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The south has suffered grievously from the institution of slavery. It was a terrible error.

And it also profited greatly.

All by choice.

As did the North with their factories that needed cotton.

Yes, we ALL owe much to the enslaved people who toiled and died for our country.

Fortunately, the North didn't outlaw abolitionism.

Fortunes, however, were made by the industrialists and factory owners, with homes, universities, colleges, and government buildings standing today as evidence.

Yes, various people in our country - and our economy - profited from enslaving other human beings.

Fortunately, other people in the North recognized this was wrong and were able to force the change.

But the harm was done and continued in other ways. And we should atone for our collective crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The south has suffered grievously from the institution of slavery. It was a terrible error.

And it also profited greatly.

All by choice.

As did the North with their factories that needed cotton.

Yes, we ALL owe much to the enslaved people who toiled and died for our country.

Fortunately, the North didn't outlaw abolitionism.

Fortunes, however, were made by the industrialists and factory owners, with homes, universities, colleges, and government buildings standing today as evidence.

Yes, various people in our country - and our economy - profited from enslaving other human beings.

Fortunately, other people in the North recognized this was wrong and were able to force the change.

But the harm was done and continued in other ways. And we should atone for our collective crime.

PP here. I don't disagree with you at all re atonement.

[Anonymous]

No one should atone for someone else’s crime. We should learn from the past, but not dwell on it. Instead we should focus on the present and future. How should we as individuals, as a society, and in electing our governments, SLTT and Federal, address inherent bias and socio-economic disadvantage going forward? It is not a “they” problem, it is a “we” problem. I argue that a “hand up” is better than a “hand out”. What philosophy do you believe in? Revenge? Reparations? Unjustified privilege for any group? Keeping things the same because it’s easy and comfortable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The south has suffered grievously from the institution of slavery. It was a terrible error.

And it also profited greatly.

All by choice.

As did the North with their factories that needed cotton.

Yes, we ALL owe much to the enslaved people who toiled and died for our country.

Fortunately, the North didn't outlaw abolitionism.

Fortunes, however, were made by the industrialists and factory owners, with homes, universities, colleges, and government buildings standing today as evidence.

They made even greater fortunes once slavery was ended. So, I don't think we can really chalk up their riches to enslavement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one should atone for someone else’s crime. We should learn from the past, but not dwell on it. Instead we should focus on the present and future. How should we as individuals, as a society, and in electing our governments, SLTT and Federal, address inherent bias and socio-economic disadvantage going forward? It is not a “they” problem, it is a “we” problem. I argue that a “hand up” is better than a “hand out”. What philosophy do you believe in? Revenge? Reparations? Unjustified privilege for any group? Keeping things the same because it’s easy and comfortable?

I'll go with: 1) not celebrating slavers and traitors; and 2) dramatically raising taxes on the top 1% and redistributing the revenue to the lower 50% -- which will disproportionately benefit non-whites without leaving out white people living in poverty due to their "privilege."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one should atone for someone else’s crime. We should learn from the past, but not dwell on it. Instead we should focus on the present and future. How should we as individuals, as a society, and in electing our governments, SLTT and Federal, address inherent bias and socio-economic disadvantage going forward? It is not a “they” problem, it is a “we” problem. I argue that a “hand up” is better than a “hand out”. What philosophy do you believe in? Revenge? Reparations? Unjustified privilege for any group? Keeping things the same because it’s easy and comfortable?

I'll go with: 1) not celebrating slavers and traitors; and 2) dramatically raising taxes on the top 1% and redistributing the revenue to the lower 50% -- which will disproportionately benefit non-whites without leaving out white people living in poverty due to their "privilege."

+1

Call it what you want, but close the wealth gap caused by past and current racial injustice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please, please stop.

There are no standard measurements for things like evil inflicted or pain suffered. There is nothing to be gained from weighing one atrocity versus another. The compassion we feel for the victims of one atrocity doesn’t limit the compassion we feel for the victims of the other. One person’s pain doesn’t negate another’s.

There’s no good reason for this divisiveness.

Unfortunately, divisiveness is inevitable when anyone tries to argue that it is objectively wrong to wear a certain type of dress. There is no objective standard for such things and there never will be.

I think you’ve moved into silly territory when you claim that “divisiveness is inevitable” when someone tries to tell you that your random party clothes are offensive. If you really aren’t willing to examine why you feel the need to get duded up in clothes to play slavemistress, that’s wholly on you, not on those of us who shame you.

No, I understand you feel offended. I just don't think you should be and you will never convince me your feelings have an objective basis. But personally, I don't actually want to offend you if you feel that strongly about it, so I don't actually do that.

In 1984, I did something that was not, so far as I knew, considered offensive then, but would be now. I am not ashamed of it, but I am really happy there was no Internet so you can see a picture of it and tell me that, objectively speaking, I am a horrible person and that I need to examine my feelings on why I did something 35 years ago.

Why would feelings have an objective basis?

I’m White. “Offense” isn’t the right word. “Anger” and “disbelief” at the continued jerkiness of White people is probably closer to how I feel about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The south has suffered grievously from the institution of slavery. It was a terrible error.

And it also profited greatly.

All by choice.

As did the North with their factories that needed cotton.

Yes, we ALL owe much to the enslaved people who toiled and died for our country.

Fortunately, the North didn't outlaw abolitionism.

Fortunes, however, were made by the industrialists and factory owners, with homes, universities, colleges, and government buildings standing today as evidence.

They made even greater fortunes once slavery was ended. So, I don't think we can really chalk up their riches to enslavement.

I'm not going to argue the point here, but many fortunes were made by northerners' purchase and need for southern cotton for their mills.