MC police pick up ESS 5 year old; harass & assault him

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this happened in a Potomac/Bethesda/Chevy chase the cops would be gone already.

And no one would be talking about the mom raising a future gangbanger.

And all hell would be breaking loose trying to figure out how inept teachers allowed a young child to wander off school grounds.

Most Es have 2 staff at recess for a few hundred kids. Or, bad staff.

I have kids in MCPS ES - there are far more than 2 teachers per 100 kids. The BS on this thread makes me think there’s a sock puppet or two trying to excuses this egregious negligence and abuse of a young child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this happened in a Potomac/Bethesda/Chevy chase the cops would be gone already.

And no one would be talking about the mom raising a future gangbanger.

And all hell would be breaking loose trying to figure out how inept teachers allowed a young child to wander off school grounds.

Most Es have 2 staff at recess for a few hundred kids. Or, bad staff.

I have kids in MCPS ES - there are far more than 2 teachers per 100 kids. The BS on this thread makes me think there’s a sock puppet or two trying to excuses this egregious negligence and abuse of a young child.

Are there 100 teachers per 100 kids? Are there 20 teachers? No.

The school could have been "egregiously negligent" here, or perhaps much less so. That part is entirely unclear.

The abuse of the child by police, however, shouldn't credibly be in question. People who try to excuse that can bite me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good lord this thread is depressing. Lots of excuses being made for appalling behavior by police. Unless the attorneys are literally lying about statements made on video by police (in which case they will be sanctioned), there are no valid excuses.

And your post exemplifies why it is reasonable to not jump to conclusions. The lawyers could be lying and it isn't unheard of to see lawyers sanctioned for that. It is also quite possible -- probably more likely than them outright lying -- that they are interpreting facts in the light most favorable to their client. That doesn't mean that those same facts (and the same video) could be reasonably interpreted differently by others. It is not at all uncommon for videos (and audio in video) to be ambiguous (because of what is and is not shown, and the quality of audio and video) and open to various interpretations.

I don't understand why you and others are so offended that we should wait until the evidence comes out, or at least a summary of the evidence is presented by someone objective, and not jump to absolute conclusions of who is right or wrong based on nothing but the description of events by one parties lawyer.

In any other context, would you be so willing to assume the guilt of the accused? I doubt you would generally be willing to assume the guilt of someone accused by the police merely on account of the accusation. You should completely change your worldview and your admiral belief in innocence until proven guilty and the possibility of biased reporting because the accused here is a cop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this happened in a Potomac/Bethesda/Chevy chase the cops would be gone already.

And no one would be talking about the mom raising a future gangbanger.

And all hell would be breaking loose trying to figure out how inept teachers allowed a young child to wander off school grounds.

Most Es have 2 staff at recess for a few hundred kids. Or, bad staff.

I have kids in MCPS ES - there are far more than 2 teachers per 100 kids. The BS on this thread makes me think there’s a sock puppet or two trying to excuses this egregious negligence and abuse of a young child.

At recess and lunch, no there are not a lot of staff. We had 2-3 teachers on recess duty and they wouldn't allow parents to volunteer as they had issues in the past with parents. We had two grades so, what 180 or so kids per recess/lunch time at the same time. Teachers only supervise 15-30 students during their class time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this happened in a Potomac/Bethesda/Chevy chase the cops would be gone already.

And no one would be talking about the mom raising a future gangbanger.

And all hell would be breaking loose trying to figure out how inept teachers allowed a young child to wander off school grounds.

Most Es have 2 staff at recess for a few hundred kids. Or, bad staff.

That's good yours does. Ours only uses paraprofessionals and there were 2-3 at a time. That was it. Teachers did not do recess duty, just before/after school duty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m trying to put myself in their shoes. So the gist of it, if my 5 1/2 year old eloped from school, and school employees were unable to stop him at the school property line and had to call the police. Then if it took officers 50 minutes and a bunch of “your mom is going to spank you when you get home” and a ride in the cruiser back to school...

I’d be angry... not at the school or police officers but at my child. I can’t imagine ever thinking I was entitled to money because of this. Without seeing the video, I may have a different opinion but I’m not going to take the lawyer’s play by play.

Maybe evaluate the boundaries you have for acceptable behavior toward a young child - a FIVE year old.

It’s one thing to pick up the child, let him know in no uncertain terms the behavior was totally unacceptable, and to coordinate with the parent to determine an appropriate path forward. This could include suspension, etc.

It’s another thing to berate, terrorize, and threaten a child with physical harm for over 50 minutes. That’s despicable and completely out of bounds of professional behavior, let alone how any LEO and school should treat a child. Can you as an adult imagine a scenario where you were detained by police who threatened physical harm to you for almost an hour? How would you feel?

Also, how the hell did a child leave the school to begin with? Again, we’re talking a five year old. Where were the responsible adults who are supposed to ensure that young children don’t just walk off school property. If this were a 15 year old, different situation. This is a FIVE year old.

Nothing from the any articles I’ve read suggested the student was unsupervised. We’ve heard one side- the lawyers.

The child left school grounds. Someone was asleep at the wheel.

Someone may have been asleep at the wheel, but just so we're having a fact-based discussion, MCPS policy is that school staff cannot physically stop a child who is eloping, nor can they follow beyond the school boundary. So, if a child is determined to walk away, school officials can *try* to reason with them (but not touch them) and *try* to redirect their attention, but their choices are extremely constrained.

This is for good reason (staff can't touch kids), but the result is that calling police to retrieve an eloping child is not uncommon at any school in MCPS.

The answer would be more teachers and teacher's aides, and more social workers and counselors to work through the eloping impulses before the child walks out.

Please show the exact policy that shows a teacher cannot stop a five year old from leaving a building without a guardian or parent or other authorized adult to escort them. I’ll wait ..... because you know you are full of crap. You and your “fact based” discussion = a pile of cow poop.

Staff are not allowed hands on a child to restrain them and stop them from leaving a campus. I suspect they didn't notice at first or you'd think they'd have someone follow the child. At SN schools, adults are trained in restraint, but at a regular ES they are not allowed to do hands on.

Yes, we absolutely need more staff, but that's not going to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m trying to put myself in their shoes. So the gist of it, if my 5 1/2 year old eloped from school, and school employees were unable to stop him at the school property line and had to call the police. Then if it took officers 50 minutes and a bunch of “your mom is going to spank you when you get home” and a ride in the cruiser back to school...

I’d be angry... not at the school or police officers but at my child. I can’t imagine ever thinking I was entitled to money because of this. Without seeing the video, I may have a different opinion but I’m not going to take the lawyer’s play by play.

Maybe evaluate the boundaries you have for acceptable behavior toward a young child - a FIVE year old.

It’s one thing to pick up the child, let him know in no uncertain terms the behavior was totally unacceptable, and to coordinate with the parent to determine an appropriate path forward. This could include suspension, etc.

It’s another thing to berate, terrorize, and threaten a child with physical harm for over 50 minutes. That’s despicable and completely out of bounds of professional behavior, let alone how any LEO and school should treat a child. Can you as an adult imagine a scenario where you were detained by police who threatened physical harm to you for almost an hour? How would you feel?

Also, how the hell did a child leave the school to begin with? Again, we’re talking a five year old. Where were the responsible adults who are supposed to ensure that young children don’t just walk off school property. If this were a 15 year old, different situation. This is a FIVE year old.

Nothing from the any articles I’ve read suggested the student was unsupervised. We’ve heard one side- the lawyers.

The child left school grounds. Someone was asleep at the wheel.

Someone may have been asleep at the wheel, but just so we're having a fact-based discussion, MCPS policy is that school staff cannot physically stop a child who is eloping, nor can they follow beyond the school boundary. So, if a child is determined to walk away, school officials can *try* to reason with them (but not touch them) and *try* to redirect their attention, but their choices are extremely constrained.

This is for good reason (staff can't touch kids), but the result is that calling police to retrieve an eloping child is not uncommon at any school in MCPS.

The answer would be more teachers and teacher's aides, and more social workers and counselors to work through the eloping impulses before the child walks out.

Please show the exact policy that shows a teacher cannot stop a five year old from leaving a building without a guardian or parent or other authorized adult to escort them. I’ll wait ..... because you know you are full of crap. You and your “fact based” discussion = a pile of cow poop.

Staff are not allowed hands on a child to restrain them and stop them from leaving a campus. I suspect they didn't notice at first or you'd think they'd have someone follow the child. At SN schools, adults are trained in restraint, but at a regular ES they are not allowed to do hands on.

Yes, we absolutely need more staff, but that's not going to happen.

That’s not actually what the policy linked here says. Can you account for the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to talk about whupping. I guarantee the officers, if they were black, were not telling the boy he should be “beaten.” They were saying whupped. People need to know that there is a huge difference between the percentage of white kids who are disciplined physically at home and the percentage of black kids. Like nearly all black kids are. And it’s talked about very openly and positively. So it’s a little silly seeing all these freaked out white women on here talking about a situation where two black cops told a kid his mama should whup him.

Nope. It’s really to see these inane cops posting that telling a 5 yo 30 times he needs to be beaten.

He is 50lbs wet. Clean house, fire the cops, remove cops from schools and up the education need to be a cop.

To what? They already require an A.A. degree. Will we taxpayers pay more to pay bigger salaries for folks with bachelors' degrees?

Yep. You get what you pay for. Cops already make a great salary .. more than teachers.

I'm fine with paying more taxes to pay cops more. Just checking with others. Good to know at least one other person doesn't mind.

[Anonymous]

Both cops are black. One male and one female.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both cops are black. One male and one female.

Oh, well then their abuse of a five year old is completely justified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this happened in a Potomac/Bethesda/Chevy chase the cops would be gone already.

And no one would be talking about the mom raising a future gangbanger.

And all hell would be breaking loose trying to figure out how inept teachers allowed a young child to wander off school grounds.

Most Es have 2 staff at recess for a few hundred kids. Or, bad staff.

I have kids in MCPS ES - there are far more than 2 teachers per 100 kids. The BS on this thread makes me think there’s a sock puppet or two trying to excuses this egregious negligence and abuse of a young child.

At recess and lunch, no there are not a lot of staff. We had 2-3 teachers on recess duty and they wouldn't allow parents to volunteer as they had issues in the past with parents. We had two grades so, what 180 or so kids per recess/lunch time at the same time. Teachers only supervise 15-30 students during their class time.

You have teachers at recess??? We have a couple playground aides, no teachers. And the playground aides are not good. They are the number one thing I hear kids (my own and others) complaining about at our school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to talk about whupping. I guarantee the officers, if they were black, were not telling the boy he should be “beaten.” They were saying whupped. People need to know that there is a huge difference between the percentage of white kids who are disciplined physically at home and the percentage of black kids. Like nearly all black kids are. And it’s talked about very openly and positively. So it’s a little silly seeing all these freaked out white women on here talking about a situation where two black cops told a kid his mama should whup him.

Nope. It’s really to see these inane cops posting that telling a 5 yo 30 times he needs to be beaten.

He is 50lbs wet. Clean house, fire the cops, remove cops from schools and up the education need to be a cop.

To what? They already require an A.A. degree. Will we taxpayers pay more to pay bigger salaries for folks with bachelors' degrees?

Yep. You get what you pay for. Cops already make a great salary .. more than teachers.

I'm fine with paying more taxes to pay cops more. Just checking with others. Good to know at least one other person doesn't mind.

Cool. I'm not fine with paying combative people with guns more-- or at least not with paying more of them to exist. You might be shocked to learn that you get more bang for your buck in terms of community safety with better teachers, more mental health professionals, food in kids' bellies, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both cops are black. One male and one female.

This was established way back. Try to keep up. Systemic racism and unequal treatment can be perpetuated by Black people in positions of institutional power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to talk about whupping. I guarantee the officers, if they were black, were not telling the boy he should be “beaten.” They were saying whupped. People need to know that there is a huge difference between the percentage of white kids who are disciplined physically at home and the percentage of black kids. Like nearly all black kids are. And it’s talked about very openly and positively. So it’s a little silly seeing all these freaked out white women on here talking about a situation where two black cops told a kid his mama should whup him.

Nope. It’s really to see these inane cops posting that telling a 5 yo 30 times he needs to be beaten.

He is 50lbs wet. Clean house, fire the cops, remove cops from schools and up the education need to be a cop.

To what? They already require an A.A. degree. Will we taxpayers pay more to pay bigger salaries for folks with bachelors' degrees?

Yep. You get what you pay for. Cops already make a great salary .. more than teachers.

I'm fine with paying more taxes to pay cops more. Just checking with others. Good to know at least one other person doesn't mind.

Cool. I'm not fine with paying combative people with guns more-- or at least not with paying more of them to exist. You might be shocked to learn that you get more bang for your buck in terms of community safety with better teachers, more mental health professionals, food in kids' bellies, etc.

We need all of that plus police. You think a mental health worker will go into a home as the first responded without pilice, nope! Clearly you’ve never done that work and realize how volatile it can be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both cops are black. One male and one female.

This was established way back. Try to keep up. Systemic racism and unequal treatment can be perpetuated by Black people in positions of institutional power.

So, you use race as a scapegoat for everything.