J.K. Rowling’s post on trans-identity and modern misogyny

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

See the post from trans girl's mother. Also, the trans people that I know online are angered and harmed by Rowling.

(IMHO, I don't really get it either but it's not my place to tell trans girls how to feel. It's my place to bow out of this one.)

Ok, the part I bolded here is key to me in all of these cultural conversations that we are having:

If I disagree with you, and that makes you angry, that is not me HARMING you. By telling me that having my own opinion that disagrees with you HARMS you, that is a pretty transparent effort to shut down and censor anyone who disagrees with the current groupthink.

+1

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

It doesn’t seem like it to you because you are only looking at her blog post. She has made transphobic comments for a LONG time, this isn’t new, and because I know trans people I deeply care about I know that and won’t excuse her for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does giving Trans women rights diminish biological women's rights?

We're all in the same group as "female." I don't care if trans women want to join. The more the merrier.

THIS

+1000

We aren't all in the same group. It isn't true.

+1 Wishing doesn't make it so.

[Anonymous]

I support J.K. Rowling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

It doesn’t seem like it to you because you are only looking at her blog post. She has made transphobic comments for a LONG time, this isn’t new, and because I know trans people I deeply care about I know that and won’t excuse her for it.

Please share these harmful tweets that we’re apparently not aware of. I’ve been following this issue and I’m not aware of any tweet that is not covered in her blog post.

[Anonymous]

I read her piece. It seems to be a completely reasonable position, but I know nothing about this issue. I've also seen online that some trans people are very offended by it, but some trans people are very supportive. The same for non trans people. So why does there need such hatred and vitriol towards her - why can't it just be accepted that this her opinion and it may be different from yours but it's certainly valid, and doesn't seek to harm anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

It kind of seems like it is.

Women’s issues are not trans women’s issues. Both groups of people have issues, but they aren’t the same.

It doesn’t seem like it to you because you are only looking at her blog post. She has made transphobic comments for a LONG time, this isn’t new, and because I know trans people I deeply care about I know that and won’t excuse her for it.

Please share these harmful tweets that we’re apparently not aware of. I’ve been following this issue and I’m not aware of any tweet that is not covered in her blog post.

Yes, please do. I've read all of her tweets so I'd like to see the further transphobic comments you're talking about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

See the post from trans girl's mother. Also, the trans people that I know online are angered and harmed by Rowling.

(IMHO, I don't really get it either but it's not my place to tell trans girls how to feel. It's my place to bow out of this one.)

Ok, the part I bolded here is key to me in all of these cultural conversations that we are having:

If I disagree with you, and that makes you angry, that is not me HARMING you. By telling me that having my own opinion that disagrees with you HARMS you, that is a pretty transparent effort to shut down and censor anyone who disagrees with the current groupthink.

+1

+1

Yes. A million times this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Everyone is acting like it’s so offensive that she said this during pride month. Let me tell you as a lesbian, so many of us are cheering her on. We’re not allowed to call our bars “for women” any more because apparently that offends non-binary people. I’ve literally seen posters saying such and such is a space for “non-men.” Are you kidding? We’re non-men now?

There’s also a lot of pressure to accept “girl d*ck” (their word, not ours). Most of us just quietly agree that we’re not interested and don’t say anything, but now in a lot of space we’re not even allowed to make lighthearted jokes about v*g because not all lesbians have that now. The activism of the 70s like the V*gna Monologues is censored on college campuses now, which is so regressive. There are also people who identify as he/him lesbians which... sigh

We also miss our butches, so many of whom have now begun to identify as men. For full grown adults to do that is fine but it hurts to see young girls who would have become masculine women transition to identify as men instead at very young ages, and I wonder if I were a teenager now if I’d be one of them.

Look, I KNOW that trans women have a really rough time. They’re the most violently targeted group within LGBT. I absolutely want to march with them for their safety, security, and freedom from discrimination. But the vast majority of violent attacks (all of them?) against trans women and trans men are committed by men. Straight men. But trans activists and allies have instead chosen to OBSESS about “TERFs” — ie women like JKR or like me who say “we support your right you live as you chose free of discrimination, but we also believe that in some cases XX women should be allowed their own spaces.”

Why is so much of the focus on women’s words and not men’s actions?

Well said.

Slow clap. Thank you for this perspective.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

See the post from trans girl's mother. Also, the trans people that I know online are angered and harmed by Rowling.

(IMHO, I don't really get it either but it's not my place to tell trans girls how to feel. It's my place to bow out of this one.)

If you are a woman it is not your place to bow out, this effects women!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's interesting how this debate is only about trans women. Someone posted earlier upthread that no one cares about trans men. It all makes sense in terms of men "invading" a female space - even when they present as women, men still feel they have the right to define women in terms that best suit their agenda. We'd welcome you to the sisterhood with open arms if you weren't so intent on redefining an already occupied space.
Get your own space!

Basic TERFing right here.

Except that it’s not...

Women have had to fight so hard for resources and safe spaces, it is disconcerting to see them disintegrating under the banner of trans inclusion.

Even on this thread it’s now considered exclusionary to say women menstruate or that women bear children and go through menopause. Historically, much of the fight for women’s rights have included oppression directly related to female biological functions. Girls not being able to attend school because of their periods. Child marriage and forced or coerced pregnancy. Maternity care. Sexual violence and rape and the risk of pregnancy. All of these issues are not inclusive of trans women but they very relevant to biological women. Recognizing that reality is not anti-trans. It’s actually the height of misogyny to expect biological women to give up all the progress we’ve made and the safe spaces we’ve created because it might not be inclusive enough or relevant to a trans woman’s experience.

It’s TERF 101. No one is asking women to “give up” anything.

Actually they are.

Case in point, just this year trans advocacy resulted in defunding Canada’s oldest rape crisis center.

This was the end result of a decades long campaign and attacks from trans advocates. In the 1990’s a trans woman who presented as male wanted to volunteer with rape victims. The center offered her other ways to help but insisted that all volunteers be female so that victims of male violence feel safe. The trans woman immediately sued and tied up time and resources of the crisis rape center for decades until it was defunded this year.

So, don’t tell me that trans women’s advocacy isn’t asking women to give up anything. They absolutely are.

I love how all the people screaming TERF!!!! conveniently ignore things like this.

Remember, JK Rowling is a domestic violence survivor and she’s very involved in supporting shelters and crisis centers.

I love the way they are asking for compassion but have very little compassion for cis women and none for Rowling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

See the post from trans girl's mother. Also, the trans people that I know online are angered and harmed by Rowling.

(IMHO, I don't really get it either but it's not my place to tell trans girls how to feel. It's my place to bow out of this one.)

They don’t know any trans people so they aren’t aware how these comments hurt trans people nor do they care.

I do know trans people and I've experienced offensive language and attitudes for cis women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read her piece. It seems to be a completely reasonable position, but I know nothing about this issue. I've also seen online that some trans people are very offended by it, but some trans people are very supportive. The same for non trans people. So why does there need such hatred and vitriol towards her - why can't it just be accepted that this her opinion and it may be different from yours but it's certainly valid, and doesn't seek to harm anyone.

It's because of her position as a children's author, as one of the most well known children's authors of all time.

Because the issue is not one for adults anymore but is now an issue for children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

See the post from trans girl's mother. Also, the trans people that I know online are angered and harmed by Rowling.

(IMHO, I don't really get it either but it's not my place to tell trans girls how to feel. It's my place to bow out of this one.)

If you are a woman it is not your place to bow out, this effects women!

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And today The Sun posts an interview with her abuser showing zero remorse at all. Because women are still, perpetually at the bottom of the totem pole.

You can be abused and also still hold harmful opinions and use your platform to spread them. She is both. She doesn’t get a pass on harming transgender people now because she survived DV.

I don't understand. She is harming transgender people by saying XX women are not the same as XY trans women biologically?
How can that not be true?

That is not the extent of her comments

So what has she said that you believe to be harmful to trans people? Tell us.

I have explained multiple times in this 21 page thread. It’s on you to do the labor to go back and read.

I have read the whole thread. I’ve read JK’s tweets and her long piece. I’ve read nothing that she’s written that I would consider harmful to trans people. Disagreement with someone’s position isn’t harm. You’re not providing the words because you can’t. They don’t exist.