Think she cheated on her SAT?

[Anonymous]

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Nice try, but as I mentioned, these are not criminal cases. When using these analogies, you must keep this in mind. Burden of proof is on the accused in this situation unfortunately. ACT is a private organization. They can administer these tests and decide when things look fishy. There is no court system or police involved. You are pretty much at their mercy, but the resolution is so simple. RETAKE THE TEST. Then you are done. Trying to fight it with a high profile lawyer in the media is over the top and a cop out for someone who clearly would never be able to get that score under the controlled conditions of a retake.

Nice try to you too. I understand these are not criminal cases. However your assertion that "Burden of proof is on the accused in this situation" is false as there is no case law on it yet, and that is what these lawsuits will decide. You don't get to decide where the burden is just because you own the testing company.

When did you stop beating your spouse, by the way?

(I know you don't beat your spouse, hope you get the point. Give the goddamned kid a break, it is possible she did not cheat. Let her have her day in court and live with the results. Why is that so hard?)

Some of you should visit here: https://www.fairtest.org/

Isn’t retaking the test for free the student’s “day in court” and her chance to prove she did not cheat? Or just sending in her school transcript?

There are much easier ways of showing that she did not cheat that don’t involve lawyers and public fundraisers.

No, retaking the test isn't the student having her day in court. It is the exact opposite of it. For the life of me I don't know why that is so hard to grasp.

And yes I know there are easier ways -- none of which will result in any change in the system or assignation of guilt to the testing services. Court is her only option.

But she can't possibly win. The College Board gave her the facts, and her position is "no I didn't." That's not going to win in Court, indeed the Court will ask why she didn't accept the College Board's offer to re-take the test..

We'll see if she wins or not. We'll see what a judge or a jury of her peers thinks. They'll get to see the actual evidence, which none of us have.

the College Board has not cancelled her scores, only told her she needs to re-take. She is not availing herself of the available remedies before pursuing a lawsuit. This will not even get to a jury.

Retaking the test is not an equitable remedy! If she didn’t cheat it is a punishment.

What? How is retaking the test to prove you can get the same or similar enough scores a punishment? Lots of people take standardized tests multiple times in hopes of getting better scores- it is very common and in no way a punishment.

She is getting the chance to prove that the score jump was because of her own hard work. Or she could just ask her high school to send in her transcripts to show that the scores reflect her normal school work. These two possibilities are far easier and less expensive than hiring a lawyer.

So what does it “prove” if her score goes down...that she did in fact cheat or will they keep making her retake it until they are satisfied or she gives up? My kids score went down points between test dates, because he studied before the first and took the second cold 6 months later.

You should read the other thread on the ACT kid. His score on the re-take went down but it was close enough to the second score the ACT people went ahead and released his second score and he did get into
his preferred college. This girl is doing herself no favors at all by her actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nice try, but as I mentioned, these are not criminal cases. When using these analogies, you must keep this in mind. Burden of proof is on the accused in this situation unfortunately. ACT is a private organization. They can administer these tests and decide when things look fishy. There is no court system or police involved. You are pretty much at their mercy, but the resolution is so simple. RETAKE THE TEST. Then you are done. Trying to fight it with a high profile lawyer in the media is over the top and a cop out for someone who clearly would never be able to get that score under the controlled conditions of a retake.

Nice try to you too. I understand these are not criminal cases. However your assertion that "Burden of proof is on the accused in this situation" is false as there is no case law on it yet, and that is what these lawsuits will decide. You don't get to decide where the burden is just because you own the testing company.

When did you stop beating your spouse, by the way?

(I know you don't beat your spouse, hope you get the point. Give the goddamned kid a break, it is possible she did not cheat. Let her have her day in court and live with the results. Why is that so hard?)

Some of you should visit here: https://www.fairtest.org/

Isn’t retaking the test for free the student’s “day in court” and her chance to prove she did not cheat? Or just sending in her school transcript?

There are much easier ways of showing that she did not cheat that don’t involve lawyers and public fundraisers.

No, retaking the test isn't the student having her day in court. It is the exact opposite of it. For the life of me I don't know why that is so hard to grasp.

And yes I know there are easier ways -- none of which will result in any change in the system or assignation of guilt to the testing services. Court is her only option.

But she can't possibly win. The College Board gave her the facts, and her position is "no I didn't." That's not going to win in Court, indeed the Court will ask why she didn't accept the College Board's offer to re-take the test..

We'll see if she wins or not. We'll see what a judge or a jury of her peers thinks. They'll get to see the actual evidence, which none of us have.

the College Board has not cancelled her scores, only told her she needs to re-take. She is not availing herself of the available remedies before pursuing a lawsuit. This will not even get to a jury.

Retaking the test is not an equitable remedy! If she didn’t cheat it is a punishment.

What? How is retaking the test to prove you can get the same or similar enough scores a punishment? Lots of people take standardized tests multiple times in hopes of getting better scores- it is very common and in no way a punishment.

She is getting the chance to prove that the score jump was because of her own hard work. Or she could just ask her high school to send in her transcripts to show that the scores reflect her normal school work. These two possibilities are far easier and less expensive than hiring a lawyer.

So what does it “prove” if her score goes down...that she did in fact cheat or will they keep making her retake it until they are satisfied or she gives up? My kids score went down points between test dates, because he studied before the first and took the second cold 6 months later.

If her score goes down but is still within the realm of her prior score, they would accept the prior score. That is what happened in the case with the boy who had to retake the ACT test. He went from a 21 to a 26. He was asked to retake and he did and scored a 23. That was enough to reinstate his score of 26. I really don't see the big issue of retaking the test or sending transcripts. By not doing that, it appears she is running away from something and that she likely DID cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nice try, but as I mentioned, these are not criminal cases. When using these analogies, you must keep this in mind. Burden of proof is on the accused in this situation unfortunately. ACT is a private organization. They can administer these tests and decide when things look fishy. There is no court system or police involved. You are pretty much at their mercy, but the resolution is so simple. RETAKE THE TEST. Then you are done. Trying to fight it with a high profile lawyer in the media is over the top and a cop out for someone who clearly would never be able to get that score under the controlled conditions of a retake.

Nice try to you too. I understand these are not criminal cases. However your assertion that "Burden of proof is on the accused in this situation" is false as there is no case law on it yet, and that is what these lawsuits will decide. You don't get to decide where the burden is just because you own the testing company.

When did you stop beating your spouse, by the way?

(I know you don't beat your spouse, hope you get the point. Give the goddamned kid a break, it is possible she did not cheat. Let her have her day in court and live with the results. Why is that so hard?)

Some of you should visit here: https://www.fairtest.org/

Isn’t retaking the test for free the student’s “day in court” and her chance to prove she did not cheat? Or just sending in her school transcript?

There are much easier ways of showing that she did not cheat that don’t involve lawyers and public fundraisers.

No, retaking the test isn't the student having her day in court. It is the exact opposite of it. For the life of me I don't know why that is so hard to grasp.

And yes I know there are easier ways -- none of which will result in any change in the system or assignation of guilt to the testing services. Court is her only option.

But she can't possibly win. The College Board gave her the facts, and her position is "no I didn't." That's not going to win in Court, indeed the Court will ask why she didn't accept the College Board's offer to re-take the test..

We'll see if she wins or not. We'll see what a judge or a jury of her peers thinks. They'll get to see the actual evidence, which none of us have.

the College Board has not cancelled her scores, only told her she needs to re-take. She is not availing herself of the available remedies before pursuing a lawsuit. This will not even get to a jury.

Retaking the test is not an equitable remedy! If she didn’t cheat it is a punishment.

The College Board can do that. If they suspect cheating they offer a chance to re-take. The court will expect the person to avail themselves of this opportunity to clear the College Board's suspicion before running to court. She really hasn't been denied anything at this point. Is this a defamation suit? The article doesn't say what the legal basis for a lawsuit would be.

I don’t think the court will expect anything of the sort until they see the evidence .

Has a lawsuit been filed? It just looks to me like the lawyer is trying the case in the press so far, but the College Board isn't going to cave in on this. Tell me what the legal basis for a lawsuit would be.

She is indeed trying her case in the press so far. She even got a congresswoman to advocate just her side of the story.

https://www.afro.com/congresswoman-frederica-s-wilsons-statement-on-kamilah-campbells-sat-score-challenge/

[Anonymous]

Looks like she cheated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Looks like she cheated.

And your evidence is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Looks like she cheated.

And your evidence is?

All she has to do is take the test again, but that's not where she is spending her energy

[Anonymous]

Epilogue:


https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/us/florida-girl-sat-controversy/index.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Epilogue:


https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/07/us/florida-girl-sat-controversy/index.html

College Board called her bluff. Definitely cheated.

[Anonymous]

And yet so many said, why doesn't she just take it again?

[Anonymous]

Hah! Would love to see what her retake comes out to be. Probably closer to the 900.

[Anonymous]

Surprise surprise.

So she basically cheated and the attorney is no longer representing her.

I predict there won’t be a “I retook it, and look at my 1200 score, ETS was wrong.”
This girl was pretty brazen to go national with her claims of victimization. Shame on her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Surprise surprise.

So she basically cheated and the attorney is no longer representing her.

I predict there won’t be a “I retook it, and look at my 1200 score, ETS was wrong.”
This girl was pretty brazen to go national with her claims of victimization. Shame on her.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Why do you think that because she dropped the case it means that she definitely cheated? I tend to agree, but interested to hear what people think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do you think that because she dropped the case it means that she definitely cheated? I tend to agree, but interested to hear what people think.

ETS sent her the information about what flagged her scores for cheating and she subsequently withdrew. It's obviously not definitive, but very, very suggestive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do you think that because she dropped the case it means that she definitely cheated? I tend to agree, but interested to hear what people think.

DP. Yes, of course. And I guarantee you she won’t retake the test. What a clown.