Is being bi-gender a "thing" at your kid's school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If transgender people were just playing dress up like emo and punk people did, it wouldn't be as big an issue. But they're saying their gender expression is also a representation of their sex. As a society, there are certain things we have that are sex segregated - bathrooms/changing facilities and athletics being 2 big ones. Some social groups are sex segregated.

If it were just dress up, or girls and boys being less stereotypically gendered in their dress, I really don't think many people would care. And that's where transgender gets weird. Gender isn't a thing, it's a social construct like race. Sex is a thing. But transsexual isn't the word people want to use, even though it's the area where most of the problems come up ... because saying you're a man because you're taking hormones or surgically modifying yourself to be more physically like a man is like saying you're not a human because you amputated your legs. Of course that's going to get sticky, especially since it starts to have real consequences for other people. Dress like a girl, whatever. Say you're a girl, try out for girl's athletic teams, try for girl focused college scholarships, because you're saying your gender representation is also your sex, and now you're potentially preventing girls from accessing those things. Girls sports aren't segregated because of gender representation. They're segregated because of biological, sex based differences (and years of discrimination and abuse, but that, too, is tied into biological, sex based differences).

No, actually they're saying that their gender expression is a representation of their gender.

Transgender women aren't interested in using women's locker rooms, and transgender girls aren't interested in trying out for girls sports or girl focused college scholarships?

Is that what you're saying? Because reality says otherwise.

Eh, what? Of course transgender women/men want to use the women's/men's locker room. That's because people want their gender expression to be a representation of their gender.

What you want, is to require people's gender expression to be a representation of their sex. But sex and gender are two different things -- as you yourself say.

If transgender people want their gender expression to be a representation of their sex, they're doing it wrong. Sex is biological. I am female whether I wear pants or not. I'm female whether I have breasts or not. I can have a masculine gender representation, but I will always be a biological female.

I don't care if someone's gender expression is a representation of their sex. I do care if men-dressed/behaving-in-a-feminine-manner decide they should use the women's changing room and if boys-dressed/behaving-in-a-feminine-manner decide they should play on sports teams that have been designated for the female sex or attempt to get college scholarships that have been designated for the female sex.

Change your gender representation all you want. People are mostly only going to care (barring a few extreme people - the same people who care when kids were emo, etc) when you try to encroach on things that had been sex segregated for good reason. When you try to use "gender" and "sex" interchangeably.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If transgender people want their gender expression to be a representation of their sex, they're doing it wrong.Sex is biological. I am female whether I wear pants or not. I'm female whether I have breasts or not. I can have a masculine gender representation, but I will always be a biological female.

I don't care if someone's gender expression is a representation of their sex. I do care if men-dressed/behaving-in-a-feminine-manner decide they should use the women's changing room and if boys-dressed/behaving-in-a-feminine-manner decide they should play on sports teams that have been designated for the female sex or attempt to get college scholarships that have been designated for the female sex.

Change your gender representation all you want. People are mostly only going to care (barring a few extreme people - the same people who care when kids were emo, etc) when you try to encroach on things that had been sex segregated for good reason. When you try to use "gender" and "sex" interchangeably.

I don't understand. First you distinguish between gender and sex (correctly, in my opinion) and say that you don't care if people's gender expression matches their sex -- but then you talk about "men" using the women's changing room. As far as I know, there are no men who want to use the women's changing room (or women who want to use the men's changing room). What there is, is women (transgender women) who want to use the women's changing room and men (transgender men) who want to use the men's changing room. And if you say, no, those women are men (or those men are women), then evidently you do believe that people's gender expression must match their sex. I.e., people born with female parts in their pants must use the women's changing room, even if they live their lives as men.

Now, if that's what you believe, then that's what you believe. Please recognize, though, that

1. There are lots of people who do not believe that, and
2. You are spending a lot of time and thought trying to make life difficult for a small number of people who have done nothing to harm you except contradict, by virtue of their existence, your sense of how people ought and ought not to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Because a definition of sanity/ rationality is accepting reality as it is, not what you want it to be. I want to be a 25 year old multi-millionaire with long golden locks and men falling at my feet. That is not how the rest of the world perceives me, however. So, for my own peace of mind and to lead to "happiness," I am best off accepting reality.

No, now you're shifting the goalposts. First you said that transgender people don't know what they want. Now you seem to agree that transgender people do know what they want, it's just that you think they shouldn't get to have it, because you think it's not good for them.

No, I said they are totally and tragically mixed up and have no idea what they want. But that doesn't counteract the above definition of sanity. Accepting what you are is the first step towards "happiness," since that seems to be so important to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If transgender people were just playing dress up like emo and punk people did, it wouldn't be as big an issue. But they're saying their gender expression is also a representation of their sex. As a society, there are certain things we have that are sex segregated - bathrooms/changing facilities and athletics being 2 big ones. Some social groups are sex segregated.

If it were just dress up, or girls and boys being less stereotypically gendered in their dress, I really don't think many people would care. And that's where transgender gets weird. Gender isn't a thing, it's a social construct like race. Sex is a thing. But transsexual isn't the word people want to use, even though it's the area where most of the problems come up ... because saying you're a man because you're taking hormones or surgically modifying yourself to be more physically like a man is like saying you're not a human because you amputated your legs. Of course that's going to get sticky, especially since it starts to have real consequences for other people. Dress like a girl, whatever. Say you're a girl, try out for girl's athletic teams, try for girl focused college scholarships, because you're saying your gender representation is also your sex, and now you're potentially preventing girls from accessing those things. Girls sports aren't segregated because of gender representation. They're segregated because of biological, sex based differences (and years of discrimination and abuse, but that, too, is tied into biological, sex based differences).

No, actually they're saying that their gender expression is a representation of their gender.

Transgender women aren't interested in using women's locker rooms, and transgender girls aren't interested in trying out for girls sports or girl focused college scholarships?

Is that what you're saying? Because reality says otherwise.

Eh, what? Of course transgender women/men want to use the women's/men's locker room. That's because people want their gender expression to be a representation of their gender.

What you want, is to require people's gender expression to be a representation of their sex. But sex and gender are two different things -- as you yourself say.

NP. There is no such thing as a "transgender woman," so it's a moot point from the beginning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NP. There is no such thing as a "transgender woman," so it's a moot point from the beginning.

If that's what you believe, then don't also go around saying that you're fine with people doing gender however they want -- because you're not. You're somebody who believes that a person's genitalia determine a person's gender.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Because a definition of sanity/ rationality is accepting reality as it is, not what you want it to be. I want to be a 25 year old multi-millionaire with long golden locks and men falling at my feet. That is not how the rest of the world perceives me, however. So, for my own peace of mind and to lead to "happiness," I am best off accepting reality.

No, now you're shifting the goalposts. First you said that transgender people don't know what they want. Now you seem to agree that transgender people do know what they want, it's just that you think they shouldn't get to have it, because you think it's not good for them.

No, I said they are totally and tragically mixed up and have no idea what they want. But that doesn't counteract the above definition of sanity. Accepting what you are is the first step towards "happiness," since that seems to be so important to you.

Who is a better authority on what you want?

a. You
b. Me

Now, I could say that you don't know what you want. But if even you yourself don't know what you want, there's no way in this ever-lovin' blue-eyed world that I know what you want.

As for accepting who you are -- that is exactly what transgender people are asking for. It's just that you say that transgender people are not who transgender people say transgender people are.

Which gets us here: who is a better authority on who you are?

a. You
b. Me

(I still want to know why you are spending so much time worrying about transgender people. Could you please explain?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP. There is no such thing as a "transgender woman," so it's a moot point from the beginning.

If that's what you believe, then don't also go around saying that you're fine with people doing gender however they want -- because you're not. You're somebody who believes that a person's genitalia determine a person's gender.

Ya got that right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Because a definition of sanity/ rationality is accepting reality as it is, not what you want it to be. I want to be a 25 year old multi-millionaire with long golden locks and men falling at my feet. That is not how the rest of the world perceives me, however. So, for my own peace of mind and to lead to "happiness," I am best off accepting reality.

No, now you're shifting the goalposts. First you said that transgender people don't know what they want. Now you seem to agree that transgender people do know what they want, it's just that you think they shouldn't get to have it, because you think it's not good for them.

No, I said they are totally and tragically mixed up and have no idea what they want. But that doesn't counteract the above definition of sanity. Accepting what you are is the first step towards "happiness," since that seems to be so important to you.

Who is a better authority on what you want?

a. You
b. Me

Now, I could say that you don't know what you want. But if even you yourself don't know what you want, there's no way in this ever-lovin' blue-eyed world that I know what you want.

As for accepting who you are -- that is exactly what transgender people are asking for. It's just that you say that transgender people are not who transgender people say transgender people are.

Which gets us here: who is a better authority on who you are?

a. You
b. Me

(I still want to know why you are spending so much time worrying about transgender people. Could you please explain?)

And I'd love to know why you're spending so much time here defending it.

There is a difference in accepting what you are and what you think you possibly, maybe would like to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And I'd love to know why you're spending so much time here defending it.

There is a difference in accepting what you are and what you think you possibly, maybe would like to be.

Partly because I think it's important to defend people's humanity. Partly because it's useful for me to find effective political arguments in favor of people's humanity. And partly because I'm doing it during breaks, when there isn't anything more immediately useful I could be doing anyway.

Your turn. Why are you spending so much time here trying to persuade people that you know them better than they know themselves?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If transgender people want their gender expression to be a representation of their sex, they're doing it wrong.Sex is biological. I am female whether I wear pants or not. I'm female whether I have breasts or not. I can have a masculine gender representation, but I will always be a biological female.

I don't care if someone's gender expression is a representation of their sex. I do care if men-dressed/behaving-in-a-feminine-manner decide they should use the women's changing room and if boys-dressed/behaving-in-a-feminine-manner decide they should play on sports teams that have been designated for the female sex or attempt to get college scholarships that have been designated for the female sex.

Change your gender representation all you want. People are mostly only going to care (barring a few extreme people - the same people who care when kids were emo, etc) when you try to encroach on things that had been sex segregated for good reason. When you try to use "gender" and "sex" interchangeably.

I don't understand. First you distinguish between gender and sex (correctly, in my opinion) and say that you don't care if people's gender expression matches their sex -- but then you talk about "men" using the women's changing room. As far as I know, there are no men who want to use the women's changing room (or women who want to use the men's changing room). What there is, is women (transgender women) who want to use the women's changing room and men (transgender men) who want to use the men's changing room. And if you say, no, those women are men (or those men are women), then evidently you do believe that people's gender expression must match their sex. I.e., people born with female parts in their pants must use the women's changing room, even if they live their lives as men.

Now, if that's what you believe, then that's what you believe. Please recognize, though, that

1. There are lots of people who do not believe that, and
2. You are spending a lot of time and thought trying to make life difficult for a small number of people who have done nothing to harm you except contradict, by virtue of their existence, your sense of how people ought and ought not to be.

Transgender women are biologically male. Their gender expression is female, their sex is male.
Transgender girls are biologically male. Their gender expression is female, their sex is male.

Their gender expression is not their sex.

Our locker rooms are sex segregated.
Many sports are sex segregated.
Some college scholarship opportunities are sex segregated.

The problem is people who want to use gender representation to take advantage of a sex-segregated environment/activity/opportunity.

Only when you conflate sex and gender do you run into this problem. A boy wants to dress as a girl, be called by a girl's name, use she/her pronouns? Go for it. That same child wants to try out for the girl's soccer team? I'm not so supportive. People of the female sex have historically had fewer opportunities to do sports, worse facilities and training, less money spent on them, and here yet again is a member of the male sex trying to get an opportunity that's meant for a female.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If transgender people want their gender expression to be a representation of their sex, they're doing it wrong.Sex is biological. I am female whether I wear pants or not. I'm female whether I have breasts or not. I can have a masculine gender representation, but I will always be a biological female.

I don't care if someone's gender expression is a representation of their sex. I do care if men-dressed/behaving-in-a-feminine-manner decide they should use the women's changing room and if boys-dressed/behaving-in-a-feminine-manner decide they should play on sports teams that have been designated for the female sex or attempt to get college scholarships that have been designated for the female sex.

Change your gender representation all you want. People are mostly only going to care (barring a few extreme people - the same people who care when kids were emo, etc) when you try to encroach on things that had been sex segregated for good reason. When you try to use "gender" and "sex" interchangeably.

I don't understand. First you distinguish between gender and sex (correctly, in my opinion) and say that you don't care if people's gender expression matches their sex -- but then you talk about "men" using the women's changing room. As far as I know, there are no men who want to use the women's changing room (or women who want to use the men's changing room). What there is, is women (transgender women) who want to use the women's changing room and men (transgender men) who want to use the men's changing room. And if you say, no, those women are men (or those men are women), then evidently you do believe that people's gender expression must match their sex. I.e., people born with female parts in their pants must use the women's changing room, even if they live their lives as men.

Now, if that's what you believe, then that's what you believe. Please recognize, though, that

1. There are lots of people who do not believe that, and
2. You are spending a lot of time and thought trying to make life difficult for a small number of people who have done nothing to harm you except contradict, by virtue of their existence, your sense of how people ought and ought not to be.

Transgender women are biologically male. Their gender expression is female, their sex is male.
Transgender girls are biologically male. Their gender expression is female, their sex is male.

Their gender expression is not their sex.

Our locker rooms are sex segregated.
Many sports are sex segregated.
Some college scholarship opportunities are sex segregated.

The problem is people who want to use gender representation to take advantage of a sex-segregated environment/activity/opportunity.

Only when you conflate sex and gender do you run into this problem. A boy wants to dress as a girl, be called by a girl's name, use she/her pronouns? Go for it. That same child wants to try out for the girl's soccer team? I'm not so supportive. People of the female sex have historically had fewer opportunities to do sports, worse facilities and training, less money spent on them, and here yet again is a member of the male sex trying to get an opportunity that's meant for a female.

Give it a rest, would you?

[Anonymous]

This shit just makes me so sad. These are people that we are talking about in the end.

[Anonymous]

Yes, mentally ill people.

[Anonymous]

When XY males declare that they are, in fact, females what will happen to Title IX athletics? Mature males have a distinct biological advantage, i.e. greater bone density, height, etc. XX females who want to compete will quickly be eliminated from top ranks. Transgender women, born as men, will be competing in the next Olympic games.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there actually endless discussions at school? Listening to my teenager, it doesn't sound like it.

Ha. You're not a DC private school family, are you?

Perhaps you need to have a discussion with Administration if you're unhappy with what is happening at your kids' school.