WAPO article about sever FFX school budget cuts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if we make a shorter school year, ending before Memorial Day weekend? So little is done in June anyway.

Great Idea!

How do you get the state required 180 days?

Can the state change the requirement? What if the schools are already meeting benchmarks? Quality and not quantity. Ending school even one week earlier would result in huge savings. Get rid of the teacher workdays (5) to be able to end school sooner with the required number of days? These are mainly for parent-teacher conferences anyway? Work in a couple of parent-teacher conferences each day while the kids are at specials or right after school. Take some other requirement off the teachers' plates.

Not all FCPS make their benchmark, are you suggesting some schools get out earlier than others in the same district? WHat if you have a child that does not make benchmark? I think the 10-11 weeks summer vacation is too long already. I would prefer a 6-8 week summer vacation and 1-2 weeks between each quarter. At the very least, FPCS should have spring break between third and fourth quarters.

Planned parent teacher conferences are only in the Fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if we make a shorter school year, ending before Memorial Day weekend? So little is done in June anyway.

Great Idea!

How do you get the state required 180 days?

Can the state change the requirement? What if the schools are already meeting benchmarks? Quality and not quantity. Ending school even one week earlier would result in huge savings. Get rid of the teacher workdays (5) to be able to end school sooner with the required number of days? These are mainly for parent-teacher conferences anyway? Work in a couple of parent-teacher conferences each day while the kids are at specials or right after school. Take some other requirement off the teachers' plates.

Not all FCPS make their benchmark, are you suggesting some schools get out earlier than others in the same district? WHat if you have a child that does not make benchmark? I think the 10-11 weeks summer vacation is too long already. I would prefer a 6-8 week summer vacation and 1-2 weeks between each quarter. At the very least, FPCS should have spring break between third and fourth quarters.

Planned parent teacher conferences are only in the Fall.

Okay, forget the idea of going to school for less than 180 days. There are 5 teacher workdays planned for 2013-14 (Nov. 4 and 5, Jan. 30 and 31, and April 7). If the same number of workdays has been built into the FY 2015 budget being considered, there may be a significant cost savings in eliminating the workdays and ending school 1 week early.

I would definitely love a 6-8 week summer vacation and 1-2 weeks between each quarter! I have been wishing for year-round school for a while. It would make taking vacations so much more economical. Easier too to go with fewer crowds. Wonder if that could somehow result in a cost savings, if days could be shaved off here and there?

[Anonymous]

I would definitely love a 6-8 week summer vacation and 1-2 weeks between each quarter! I have been wishing for year-round school for a while. It would make taking vacations so much more economical. Easier too to go with fewer crowds. Wonder if that could somehow result in a cost savings, if days could be shaved off here and there?

This is a good idea

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17 pages? I knew it - the AAP crazies got out of their pen again.

I beg to differ. This is talking about where to cut the wasted tax dollars in FCPS schools. Looking for $148 million in cuts FY2014. AAP in elementary schools would be a good chunk to start with. It is not necessary and as it exist today a waste of $10million in tax dollars. Not to mention it is creating a community of divisiness, putting a lot of stress on very young children, offering a better education to a select few, creating wasteful spending, creating elitist entitled children, and bottom line wasting my tax dollars!!!

no, those who need it benefit from it very much. State law requires a special program for advanced learners. A few disgruntled people like yourself not withstanding, AAP and TJ are an understandable source of pride for the FCPS.

True: for GIFTED learners, not your average good student-learners!! When AAP students are outnumbering GE students, the system has run amok.

Do you mean at AAP centers? You know that the AAP kids there come from several schools, right?

Umm, yes I do know this. But do you know that center schools are also neighborhood schools for the kids who live in-boundary? And for those kids, many of whom are in GE, the AAP center model is a pretty unpleasant place to go to school. The majority of kids there are in AAP and if you're in GE, your class is considered "less-than". I'm wondering how you would (honestly) feel if you had a GE child who was very smart, but not in AAP, and who came home wondering why he or she was somehow considered less intelligent than the other kids simply by virtue of what class he or she was in. I imagine you'd be pretty pissed about it.

I'm sure that I wouldn't be happy if this was my situation (and it may be with my younger child). Does your child not feel very smart within his/her own classroom, like the "big fish"? Would it really be better if the neighborhood kids who qualified for AAP were mixed back in with the rest from the neighborhood and your child might be in a lower reading group, math group, etc.? Could he/she not feel overshadowed in that way?

We are in this situation - overall 80% kid in the GE at an AAP center school. We have had a really difficult time with DC not feeling less than for being in GE. After the first day of school, DC came home and said, "I used to think I was smart. Why am I not in AAP? If AAP is for advanced academics, and I'm not in it, then I must not be very smart." The school has been working very hard at trying to get DC to feel good about being in GE. We're almost finished with the first quarter, and DC still stays regularly that DC wants to be in AAP.

DC does not feel like a "big fish" in the GE class, DC feels like the GE pond is for the dumb kids. DC feels like the GE students are not as smart as the mixed class from the year earlier. DC was in the pull-out math group in 1st and 2nd, so DC is really annoyed that the students who were not in the AAP level II math for 1st and 2nd are now in a more advanced class. DC doesn't feel overshadowed at all - DC is just thinks it's not fair that some children are in another class that DC wants to be in.

People say that beng in the GE in an AAP center school can benefit your GE child. We have not found this to be the case. Even though DC is very strong in math, the school will not let GE students mix with the AAP students for math. The school has created an advanced track through flex-grouping within GE for advanced math. However, the group only works one grade level ahead. If DC was in AAP, DC could work in the most advanced math group. So far, we have found no benefit to DC being a GE student in a center school.

Oh, PP, I am so sorry to read your post! I feel very bad for your DC!

Are you able to enrich his math outside of school? I would tell him that AAP is very heavy in reading and writing, so he wouldn't be in it if his main strength was math and his reading and writing weren't so strong. Tell him that the reading and writing part probably would not be fun for him. I would say that as you get older it is less important to be well rounded, so he just needs to be patient. He could grow up to be a mathematician or invent a new kind of computer and no one would ever ask how was his spelling, etc. Say it is a strange system and some AAP kids don't do as well once they get to high school and college, and some GE kids do better. What is most important is to keep up good study habits and follow any particular areas of interest -- math, sports, music, community service, or anything else that may be of interest and that your DC can feel good about. Hope that your DC will be feeling better about the school situation soon!

[Anonymous]

Can our school system be all things to all people without us finding a way to increase revenues to support the budget needs?

Many elementary schools have 10 to 15 special ed teachers and IAs. Tack on three or four ESOL teachers per school. There are schools with up to seven reading specialists. Then add all the other specialists that are not regular classroom teachers, and it's mind boggling.

Even though it's easy to jump on the AAP centers, because no one will accuse you of not being PC and supportive, we need to stop scapegoating. The AAP kids are not really using more resources other than transportation. They just happen to be grouped together. Otherwise, same use of a teacher, same use of a classroom.

We have chosen to try to educate kids with many kinds of special needs, and that costs a lot. I see the autistic kid on my street get picked up and taken to a different school from his base school, practically alone on the school bus, needing a paid assistant to watch him, every day. At school, he will be helped, I hope, by a team of special ed teachers and assistants. Will he ever talk or hold a job? Not likely, but we believe our educational system should do all it can for him. This costs a lot.

I know so many kids on the autistic spectrum and with other special needs. It's no longer rare.

What's got to give? Where do we cut? What population benefits the most? How does our society get the most return out of our investment?

And do we need so many administrators? Why does an elementary school need ten full-time admin people?

I have more questions than answers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:maybe they will get rid of 1/2 day Mondays!

how does that save any more?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I would definitely love a 6-8 week summer vacation and 1-2 weeks between each quarter! I have been wishing for year-round school for a while. It would make taking vacations so much more economical. Easier too to go with fewer crowds. Wonder if that could somehow result in a cost savings, if days could be shaved off here and there?

This is a good idea

I'm a teacher and I would be on board with this, 100%. I know the same can be said for many of my colleagues.

[Anonymous]

Virginia should raise taxes. It lags the region http://voices.washingtonpost.com/rawfisher/2008/01/who_pays_more_taxes_virginia_m.html. Sometimes you simply have to pay for services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17 pages? I knew it - the AAP crazies got out of their pen again.

I beg to differ. This is talking about where to cut the wasted tax dollars in FCPS schools. Looking for $148 million in cuts FY2014. AAP in elementary schools would be a good chunk to start with. It is not necessary and as it exist today a waste of $10million in tax dollars. Not to mention it is creating a community of divisiness, putting a lot of stress on very young children, offering a better education to a select few, creating wasteful spending, creating elitist entitled children, and bottom line wasting my tax dollars!!!

no, those who need it benefit from it very much. State law requires a special program for advanced learners. A few disgruntled people like yourself not withstanding, AAP and TJ are an understandable source of pride for the FCPS.

True: for GIFTED learners, not your average good student-learners!! When AAP students are outnumbering GE students, the system has run amok.

Do you mean at AAP centers? You know that the AAP kids there come from several schools, right?

Umm, yes I do know this. But do you know that center schools are also neighborhood schools for the kids who live in-boundary? And for those kids, many of whom are in GE, the AAP center model is a pretty unpleasant place to go to school. The majority of kids there are in AAP and if you're in GE, your class is considered "less-than". I'm wondering how you would (honestly) feel if you had a GE child who was very smart, but not in AAP, and who came home wondering why he or she was somehow considered less intelligent than the other kids simply by virtue of what class he or she was in. I imagine you'd be pretty pissed about it.

I'm sure that I wouldn't be happy if this was my situation (and it may be with my younger child). Does your child not feel very smart within his/her own classroom, like the "big fish"? Would it really be better if the neighborhood kids who qualified for AAP were mixed back in with the rest from the neighborhood and your child might be in a lower reading group, math group, etc.? Could he/she not feel overshadowed in that way?

We are in this situation - overall 80% kid in the GE at an AAP center school. We have had a really difficult time with DC not feeling less than for being in GE. After the first day of school, DC came home and said, "I used to think I was smart. Why am I not in AAP? If AAP is for advanced academics, and I'm not in it, then I must not be very smart." The school has been working very hard at trying to get DC to feel good about being in GE. We're almost finished with the first quarter, and DC still stays regularly that DC wants to be in AAP.

DC does not feel like a "big fish" in the GE class, DC feels like the GE pond is for the dumb kids. DC feels like the GE students are not as smart as the mixed class from the year earlier. DC was in the pull-out math group in 1st and 2nd, so DC is really annoyed that the students who were not in the AAP level II math for 1st and 2nd are now in a more advanced class. DC doesn't feel overshadowed at all - DC is just thinks it's not fair that some children are in another class that DC wants to be in.

People say that beng in the GE in an AAP center school can benefit your GE child. We have not found this to be the case. Even though DC is very strong in math, the school will not let GE students mix with the AAP students for math. The school has created an advanced track through flex-grouping within GE for advanced math. However, the group only works one grade level ahead. If DC was in AAP, DC could work in the most advanced math group. So far, we have found no benefit to DC being a GE student in a center school.

Let your kid know - this is the real world. A lot of people are smarter than you no matter how smart you are. He will learn it sooner or later whether he is in center school or not. However, high IQ doesn't mean much in terms of having a successful career or a happy life. Teach him to value hard work and improve his EQ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17 pages? I knew it - the AAP crazies got out of their pen again.

I beg to differ. This is talking about where to cut the wasted tax dollars in FCPS schools. Looking for $148 million in cuts FY2014. AAP in elementary schools would be a good chunk to start with. It is not necessary and as it exist today a waste of $10million in tax dollars. Not to mention it is creating a community of divisiness, putting a lot of stress on very young children, offering a better education to a select few, creating wasteful spending, creating elitist entitled children, and bottom line wasting my tax dollars!!!

no, those who need it benefit from it very much. State law requires a special program for advanced learners. A few disgruntled people like yourself not withstanding, AAP and TJ are an understandable source of pride for the FCPS.

True: for GIFTED learners, not your average good student-learners!! When AAP students are outnumbering GE students, the system has run amok.

Do you mean at AAP centers? You know that the AAP kids there come from several schools, right?

Umm, yes I do know this. But do you know that center schools are also neighborhood schools for the kids who live in-boundary? And for those kids, many of whom are in GE, the AAP center model is a pretty unpleasant place to go to school. The majority of kids there are in AAP and if you're in GE, your class is considered "less-than". I'm wondering how you would (honestly) feel if you had a GE child who was very smart, but not in AAP, and who came home wondering why he or she was somehow considered less intelligent than the other kids simply by virtue of what class he or she was in. I imagine you'd be pretty pissed about it.

I'm sure that I wouldn't be happy if this was my situation (and it may be with my younger child). Does your child not feel very smart within his/her own classroom, like the "big fish"? Would it really be better if the neighborhood kids who qualified for AAP were mixed back in with the rest from the neighborhood and your child might be in a lower reading group, math group, etc.? Could he/she not feel overshadowed in that way?

We are in this situation - overall 80% kid in the GE at an AAP center school. We have had a really difficult time with DC not feeling less than for being in GE. After the first day of school, DC came home and said, "I used to think I was smart. Why am I not in AAP? If AAP is for advanced academics, and I'm not in it, then I must not be very smart." The school has been working very hard at trying to get DC to feel good about being in GE. We're almost finished with the first quarter, and DC still stays regularly that DC wants to be in AAP.

DC does not feel like a "big fish" in the GE class, DC feels like the GE pond is for the dumb kids. DC feels like the GE students are not as smart as the mixed class from the year earlier. DC was in the pull-out math group in 1st and 2nd, so DC is really annoyed that the students who were not in the AAP level II math for 1st and 2nd are now in a more advanced class. DC doesn't feel overshadowed at all - DC is just thinks it's not fair that some children are in another class that DC wants to be in.

People say that beng in the GE in an AAP center school can benefit your GE child. We have not found this to be the case. Even though DC is very strong in math, the school will not let GE students mix with the AAP students for math. The school has created an advanced track through flex-grouping within GE for advanced math. However, the group only works one grade level ahead. If DC was in AAP, DC could work in the most advanced math group. So far, we have found no benefit to DC being a GE student in a center school.

Let your kid know - this is the real world. A lot of people are smarter than you no matter how smart you are. He will learn it sooner or later whether he is in center school or not. However, high IQ doesn't mean much in terms of having a successful career or a happy life. Teach him to value hard work and improve his EQ.

The CogAt/FxAT does not measure IQ; these are simply reasoning tests. http://www.riverpub.com/products/cogAt/support.html#4 So scoring high on them does not necessarily indicate a high IQ. Many GE kids are equally intelligent, but just missed the benchmark on those tests. This is why GE students, within center schools especially, feel the stark division of AAP/GE so acutely. It's obvious that most of their AAP counterparts are no "smarter" than they, and yet they (the AAP kids) are receiving special services. This is a program that needs to be cut or deeply overhauled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can our school system be all things to all people without us finding a way to increase revenues to support the budget needs?

Many elementary schools have 10 to 15 special ed teachers and IAs. Tack on three or four ESOL teachers per school. There are schools with up to seven reading specialists. Then add all the other specialists that are not regular classroom teachers, and it's mind boggling.

Even though it's easy to jump on the AAP centers, because no one will accuse you of not being PC and supportive, we need to stop scapegoating. The AAP kids are not really using more resources other than transportation. They just happen to be grouped together. Otherwise, same use of a teacher, same use of a classroom.

We have chosen to try to educate kids with many kinds of special needs, and that costs a lot. I see the autistic kid on my street get picked up and taken to a different school from his base school, practically alone on the school bus, needing a paid assistant to watch him, every day. At school, he will be helped, I hope, by a team of special ed teachers and assistants. Will he ever talk or hold a job? Not likely, but we believe our educational system should do all it can for him. This costs a lot.

I know so many kids on the autistic spectrum and with other special needs. It's no longer rare.

What's got to give? Where do we cut? What population benefits the most? How does our society get the most return out of our investment?

And do we need so many administrators? Why does an elementary school need ten full-time admin people?

I have more questions than answers.

+1

[Anonymous]

I feel like this AAP discussion is derailing the discussion on budget cuts. If you want to propose eliminating it, please focus the discussion on budget cuts due to it's expenses verses the outcome of AAP and GE students and not on whether you like it or not. Obviously it's extremely popular and many parents and students love it. My personal opinion is that unless class sizes decrease dramatically, there will be a lot of very unhappy parents in Fairfax if AAP goes away. No one is going to care if you go up to the school board and say "Get rid of AAP because it's divisive" They may try to restructure the program in the future, but it won't necessarily cost less unless you point out how to save money. So other items will still be cut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this AAP discussion is derailing the discussion on budget cuts. If you want to propose eliminating it, please focus the discussion on budget cuts due to it's expenses verses the outcome of AAP and GE students and not on whether you like it or not. Obviously it's extremely popular and many parents and students love it. My personal opinion is that unless class sizes decrease dramatically, there will be a lot of very unhappy parents in Fairfax if AAP goes away. No one is going to care if you go up to the school board and say "Get rid of AAP because it's divisive" They may try to restructure the program in the future, but it won't necessarily cost less unless you point out how to save money. So other items will still be cut.

Actually didn't they just pay for a study last year that concluded FCPS is using best practices for AAP education? Got an A+ grade as I recall.

[Anonymous]

I'm sure that I wouldn't be happy if this was my situation (and it may be with my younger child). Does your child not feel very smart within his/her own classroom, like the "big fish"? Would it really be better if the neighborhood kids who qualified for AAP were mixed back in with the rest from the neighborhood and your child might be in a lower reading group, math group, etc.? Could he/she not feel overshadowed in that way?
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What an arrogant statement from someone who has no understanding of kids.

[Anonymous]

The AAP kids are NOT necessarily far superior to the others. I know this from staff members at an AAP school. AAP is not a GT program.