WAPO article about sever FFX school budget cuts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17 pages? I knew it - the AAP crazies got out of their pen again.

I beg to differ. This is talking about where to cut the wasted tax dollars in FCPS schools. Looking for $148 million in cuts FY2014. AAP in elementary schools would be a good chunk to start with. It is not necessary and as it exist today a waste of $10million in tax dollars. Not to mention it is creating a community of divisiness, putting a lot of stress on very young children, offering a better education to a select few, creating wasteful spending, creating elitist entitled children, and bottom line wasting my tax dollars!!!

no, those who need it benefit from it very much. State law requires a special program for advanced learners. A few disgruntled people like yourself not withstanding, AAP and TJ are an understandable source of pride for the FCPS.

It is way more than a few. I'd be interested to see if buy-in and support for this program extends much beyond the families of the 18% of kids who get in. And I say that as a parent who has had a child in AAP. You are kidding yourself if you think this program is widely supported. Sure FCPS administration loves it because it makes the system look good, but given what it has turned into, support is dwindling and as the county grows I would not be surprised to see these programs back in the base schools where they belong.

I'd love to see an actual vote by Fairfax County residents (read: taxpayers) on whether or not AAP, at least center-based AAP, should continue to be funded. I think those who feel it's so very important would be in for a rude awakening when they realize just how many think it's a huge waste of money.

Do you think the base schools would be better off with all the AAP kids, 3rd through 6th grade, coming back from the centers? How would they be accommodated when there is no extra space and class sizes are already large?

I think center schools should be turned into community schools for everyone within its boundary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17 pages? I knew it - the AAP crazies got out of their pen again.

I beg to differ. This is talking about where to cut the wasted tax dollars in FCPS schools. Looking for $148 million in cuts FY2014. AAP in elementary schools would be a good chunk to start with. It is not necessary and as it exist today a waste of $10million in tax dollars. Not to mention it is creating a community of divisiness, putting a lot of stress on very young children, offering a better education to a select few, creating wasteful spending, creating elitist entitled children, and bottom line wasting my tax dollars!!!

no, those who need it benefit from it very much. State law requires a special program for advanced learners. A few disgruntled people like yourself not withstanding, AAP and TJ are an understandable source of pride for the FCPS.

True: for GIFTED learners, not your average good student-learners!! When AAP students are outnumbering GE students, the system has run amok.

Do you mean at AAP centers? You know that the AAP kids there come from several schools, right?

Umm, yes I do know this. But do you know that center schools are also neighborhood schools for the kids who live in-boundary? And for those kids, many of whom are in GE, the AAP center model is a pretty unpleasant place to go to school. The majority of kids there are in AAP and if you're in GE, your class is considered "less-than". I'm wondering how you would (honestly) feel if you had a GE child who was very smart, but not in AAP, and who came home wondering why he or she was somehow considered less intelligent than the other kids simply by virtue of what class he or she was in. I imagine you'd be pretty pissed about it.

I'm sure that I wouldn't be happy if this was my situation (and it may be with my younger child). Does your child not feel very smart within his/her own classroom, like the "big fish"? Would it really be better if the neighborhood kids who qualified for AAP were mixed back in with the rest from the neighborhood and your child might be in a lower reading group, math group, etc.? Could he/she not feel overshadowed in that way?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17 pages? I knew it - the AAP crazies got out of their pen again.

I beg to differ. This is talking about where to cut the wasted tax dollars in FCPS schools. Looking for $148 million in cuts FY2014. AAP in elementary schools would be a good chunk to start with. It is not necessary and as it exist today a waste of $10million in tax dollars. Not to mention it is creating a community of divisiness, putting a lot of stress on very young children, offering a better education to a select few, creating wasteful spending, creating elitist entitled children, and bottom line wasting my tax dollars!!!

no, those who need it benefit from it very much. State law requires a special program for advanced learners. A few disgruntled people like yourself not withstanding, AAP and TJ are an understandable source of pride for the FCPS.

It is way more than a few. I'd be interested to see if buy-in and support for this program extends much beyond the families of the 18% of kids who get in. And I say that as a parent who has had a child in AAP. You are kidding yourself if you think this program is widely supported. Sure FCPS administration loves it because it makes the system look good, but given what it has turned into, support is dwindling and as the county grows I would not be surprised to see these programs back in the base schools where they belong.

I'd love to see an actual vote by Fairfax County residents (read: taxpayers) on whether or not AAP, at least center-based AAP, should continue to be funded. I think those who feel it's so very important would be in for a rude awakening when they realize just how many think it's a huge waste of money.

Do you think the base schools would be better off with all the AAP kids, 3rd through 6th grade, coming back from the centers? How would they be accommodated when there is no extra space and class sizes are already large?

I think center schools should be turned into community schools for everyone within its boundary.

There are already also community schools for everyone in their boundary. They aren't exclusively center schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if we make a shorter school year, ending before Memorial Day weekend? So little is done in June anyway.

Great Idea!

How do you get the state required 180 days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Umm, yes I do know this. But do you know that center schools are also neighborhood schools for the kids who live in-boundary? And for those kids, many of whom are in GE, the AAP center model is a pretty unpleasant place to go to school. The majority of kids there are in AAP and if you're in GE, your class is considered "less-than". I'm wondering how you would (honestly) feel if you had a GE child who was very smart, but not in AAP, and who came home wondering why he or she was somehow considered less intelligent than the other kids simply by virtue of what class he or she was in. I imagine you'd be pretty pissed about it.

And for AAP kids bussed to Centers, there can be a very unwelcoming environment. It cuts both ways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What if we make a shorter school year, ending before Memorial Day weekend? So little is done in June anyway.

Great Idea!

How do you get the state required 180 days?

Can the state change the requirement? What if the schools are already meeting benchmarks? Quality and not quantity. Ending school even one week earlier would result in huge savings. Get rid of the teacher workdays (5) to be able to end school sooner with the required number of days? These are mainly for parent-teacher conferences anyway? Work in a couple of parent-teacher conferences each day while the kids are at specials or right after school. Take some other requirement off the teachers' plates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17 pages? I knew it - the AAP crazies got out of their pen again.

I beg to differ. This is talking about where to cut the wasted tax dollars in FCPS schools. Looking for $148 million in cuts FY2014. AAP in elementary schools would be a good chunk to start with. It is not necessary and as it exist today a waste of $10million in tax dollars. Not to mention it is creating a community of divisiness, putting a lot of stress on very young children, offering a better education to a select few, creating wasteful spending, creating elitist entitled children, and bottom line wasting my tax dollars!!!

no, those who need it benefit from it very much. State law requires a special program for advanced learners. A few disgruntled people like yourself not withstanding, AAP and TJ are an understandable source of pride for the FCPS.

It is way more than a few. I'd be interested to see if buy-in and support for this program extends much beyond the families of the 18% of kids who get in. And I say that as a parent who has had a child in AAP. You are kidding yourself if you think this program is widely supported. Sure FCPS administration loves it because it makes the system look good, but given what it has turned into, support is dwindling and as the county grows I would not be surprised to see these programs back in the base schools where they belong.

I'd love to see an actual vote by Fairfax County residents (read: taxpayers) on whether or not AAP, at least center-based AAP, should continue to be funded. I think those who feel it's so very important would be in for a rude awakening when they realize just how many think it's a huge waste of money.

Do you think the base schools would be better off with all the AAP kids, 3rd through 6th grade, coming back from the centers? How would they be accommodated when there is no extra space and class sizes are already large?

I think center schools should be turned into community schools for everyone within its boundary.

There are already also community schools for everyone in their boundary. They aren't exclusively center schools.

The center schools would become additional community (base) schools, thus alleviating any overcrowding that might result from sending AAP center students back to their base schools. So for instance, in my area, there are five base schools which feed into the center. Making the center a sixth "regular" school would absorb all the extra students as they would then be redistributed to the six schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Umm, yes I do know this. But do you know that center schools are also neighborhood schools for the kids who live in-boundary? And for those kids, many of whom are in GE, the AAP center model is a pretty unpleasant place to go to school. The majority of kids there are in AAP and if you're in GE, your class is considered "less-than". I'm wondering how you would (honestly) feel if you had a GE child who was very smart, but not in AAP, and who came home wondering why he or she was somehow considered less intelligent than the other kids simply by virtue of what class he or she was in. I imagine you'd be pretty pissed about it.

And for AAP kids bussed to Centers, there can be a very unwelcoming environment. It cuts both ways.

How do AAP kids at centers feel unwelcome? The school was practically made for them.

[Anonymous]

^ but you can't redistribute them because then they would be bored. And of course the regular kids would be stigmatized by their badge of inferiority vis a vis the high achievers. So I think it would be best to leave well enough alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The center schools would become additional community (base) schools, thus alleviating any overcrowding that might result from sending AAP center students back to their base schools. So for instance, in my area, there are five base schools which feed into the center. Making the center a sixth "regular" school would absorb all the extra students as they would then be redistributed to the six schools.

So you are saying you would redo the boundaries. Funding for boundary studies would likely be needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The center schools would become additional community (base) schools, thus alleviating any overcrowding that might result from sending AAP center students back to their base schools. So for instance, in my area, there are five base schools which feed into the center. Making the center a sixth "regular" school would absorb all the extra students as they would then be redistributed to the six schools.

So you are saying you would redo the boundaries. Funding for boundary studies would likely be needed.

Yes, boundaries would need to be redone, but I don't imagine the cost for boundary studies would be prohibitive. It would be a one-time thing, not an ongoing expenditure. If FCPS can pay for turf fields, surely they can pay for a boundary study.

[Anonymous]

Karen Garza do you read this board?? If not someone needs to alert her to this. There are many good ideas here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Karen Garza do you read this board?? If not someone needs to alert her to this. There are many good ideas here.

Really? Good ideas?

Stop doing ESOL, get rid of AAP, get rid of AP, IB, and TJ, etc. Those seem like good ideas to you?

[Anonymous]

Wow, can we just put the AAP issue aside for a moment - the anti-AAP'ers are really overwhelming this thread and detracting focus from what is a very important issue. Again, scrapping AAP appears like it would save at most $10 million (I think it is more like $5 because AAP teachers seem to be a separate line item and you would just need more gen ed teachers), but no matter what it's a small amount of the shortfall that needs to be made up.

The problem here is that while one person doesn't like AAP, and another thinks FLES can go, and another doesn't care about reading specialists...you don't just get to pick one thing and chop it off.

Can anyone identify $140 million in realistic cuts (i.e. they are not getting rid of ESOL for goodness sakes) that don't make you question the continued strength of the school system?

We all probably have one or two programs that we individually don't think are so important, but to get up to $140 million it's invariably going to cut a number a number of things you DO want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:17 pages? I knew it - the AAP crazies got out of their pen again.

I beg to differ. This is talking about where to cut the wasted tax dollars in FCPS schools. Looking for $148 million in cuts FY2014. AAP in elementary schools would be a good chunk to start with. It is not necessary and as it exist today a waste of $10million in tax dollars. Not to mention it is creating a community of divisiness, putting a lot of stress on very young children, offering a better education to a select few, creating wasteful spending, creating elitist entitled children, and bottom line wasting my tax dollars!!!

no, those who need it benefit from it very much. State law requires a special program for advanced learners. A few disgruntled people like yourself not withstanding, AAP and TJ are an understandable source of pride for the FCPS.

True: for GIFTED learners, not your average good student-learners!! When AAP students are outnumbering GE students, the system has run amok.

Do you mean at AAP centers? You know that the AAP kids there come from several schools, right?

Umm, yes I do know this. But do you know that center schools are also neighborhood schools for the kids who live in-boundary? And for those kids, many of whom are in GE, the AAP center model is a pretty unpleasant place to go to school. The majority of kids there are in AAP and if you're in GE, your class is considered "less-than". I'm wondering how you would (honestly) feel if you had a GE child who was very smart, but not in AAP, and who came home wondering why he or she was somehow considered less intelligent than the other kids simply by virtue of what class he or she was in. I imagine you'd be pretty pissed about it.

I'm sure that I wouldn't be happy if this was my situation (and it may be with my younger child). Does your child not feel very smart within his/her own classroom, like the "big fish"? Would it really be better if the neighborhood kids who qualified for AAP were mixed back in with the rest from the neighborhood and your child might be in a lower reading group, math group, etc.? Could he/she not feel overshadowed in that way?

We are in this situation - overall 80% kid in the GE at an AAP center school. We have had a really difficult time with DC not feeling less than for being in GE. After the first day of school, DC came home and said, "I used to think I was smart. Why am I not in AAP? If AAP is for advanced academics, and I'm not in it, then I must not be very smart." The school has been working very hard at trying to get DC to feel good about being in GE. We're almost finished with the first quarter, and DC still stays regularly that DC wants to be in AAP.

DC does not feel like a "big fish" in the GE class, DC feels like the GE pond is for the dumb kids. DC feels like the GE students are not as smart as the mixed class from the year earlier. DC was in the pull-out math group in 1st and 2nd, so DC is really annoyed that the students who were not in the AAP level II math for 1st and 2nd are now in a more advanced class. DC doesn't feel overshadowed at all - DC is just thinks it's not fair that some children are in another class that DC wants to be in.

People say that beng in the GE in an AAP center school can benefit your GE child. We have not found this to be the case. Even though DC is very strong in math, the school will not let GE students mix with the AAP students for math. The school has created an advanced track through flex-grouping within GE for advanced math. However, the group only works one grade level ahead. If DC was in AAP, DC could work in the most advanced math group. So far, we have found no benefit to DC being a GE student in a center school.