College Admissions Doesn't Need to Be So Competitive: Super High Stat Kids are not "a dime a dozen."

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:1500 has been the marker for many, many years. I believe it still is. I doubt many, if any, admissions officers care about a 1550 vs a 1540. Or a 1530 vs a 1570. All within the same standard deviation to account for those test takers having a good day vs those having a bad day.

Anyone in the 1500+ bucket gets extra attention paid to their ECs and other achievements.

We have data on this and a 1590 has more than twice the admission rate at top 11 schools as a 1500. It might not be worth the extra effort to get the 1590 but AOs are not indifferent to SAT scores above 1500

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

The journal Nature published an article about how college admissions is unfair to Asians ... in 2024? This was obvious in 1994

Oh BS. Asians prep like crazy. It’s the hook that favors their cultural approach. Their parents and grandparents were used to the cram schools and spending 6 hours a day after school cramming. Prepping and cheating for scores only matter admission is common in countries like Korea, India and China. Of course the author wants to get rid of athletic recruits, particularly for sports that aren’t dominated by Asians, legacy and donors as Asian alumni do not give or give far less than other demographics, first generation college and any other aspect that doesn’t favor them.

Getting over 1500 on the SAT is not challenging to a reasonably intelligent kid that has been forced to practice for years until they consistently nail a perfect score on practice tests. It’s not a sign of brilliance, it a sign of obedience to parents that demand a perfect score.

you would have said the same about Jews a century ago when they were the ones getting the short stick

+1. And there’s nothing stopping a non-Asian kid from prepping. In fact many of them do, despite the PP’s ignorant stereotype. Let the prizes go to the kids who work the hardest. Sorry you don’t believe in meritocracy-not everything is going to be given to your kid in life if they’re not performing.

Let’s just point out that these kids are not that work the hardest, it’s their parents that push the hardest and bully kids into having no childhood since preschool. Kids don’t have a free will in this.

what's the difference between that and kids who have been doing football (either kind) since preschool?

The football kids aren't asian. The name of the game is asian evasion.

Colleges have had football teams forever. Asians dominating and expecting to fill every spot is a relatively new thing in the past two decades. If the new demographics of top colleges is for every ten admits, 4-5 are Asians with no legacy or sports just test scores 2-3 are white possibly with sports or legacy, 2 are Hispanic with maybe a sport, no legacy, and 1 is AA with maybe sports then you are basically shutting out all white, Hispanic or AA students who are not top athletes or legacy donors or first generation college.

a hundred years ago you would have said that about jews

Not at all. Jewish students and alumni engaged and still engage in college. As alumni, they donated and often led efforts to support their school. They also did not push out or seek to push out every other single demographic and pine for changing the criteria to solely benefit their cultural practice of test prep Asians are constantly fighting against affirmative action, first generation, veteran or other criteria that really helps marginalized groups move up and adds vibrancy to the campus because they want those spots. It isn’t about learning or thinking or changing the world it’s about being a dutiful drone and gaming whatever possible to get ahead.

holistic admissions didn't exist 100 years ago. Before then ivies used test scores and grades exclusively. It was only when jews started push their way in that holistic admissions was introduced

Actually that is a cute myth that people like to spin. Admissions were holistic before they were test based. Only, the holistic part was "what is your family name
', what is you families club, what prep school did you got to. Grades were of secondary importance as long as the rest of the application reflected the traits desired which was "good Protestant families". Testing came about as an attempt to bring in a wider student body. It is unfortunate that holistic admissions were brought back to put curbs on the number of Jewish students.

Holistic admissions existed long before there were significant numbers of Asian applicants. You are asking schools to change practices to your preferences, not out of any remorse about the impact on Jewish applicants long ago but rather in a way that you believe will advantage Asian applicants because the present
system doesn't reflect what you believe is important not out of any sense of actually improving the system. The schools involved do not see themselves as you wish that they did and that is something that you just need to come to grips with.

you can tell yourself whatever you want to rationalize an antisemitic practice

+1. Offspring of Asian immigrants here and WASP grad. Not fair to label Asians as test-prep, non-contributing drones. Everyone has the potential to contribute to the college classroom and college community, regardless of their background. We value expanding educational opportunities, diversity of experience, and engagement with the wider community. I have volunteered and participated in non-academic things both in college and beyond. I want my third generation Asian-American kid to be an active participant in diverse college community where they can learn from and be enriched by interacting with people from a variety of backgrounds.

That is all well and good. We have a mixed family with a half Asian child also at a WASP school; I applaud your decision to attend a SLAC as they are looked down upon as not prestigious by many in the Asian and South Asian communities I have lived in and among the Asian community for 30 years now and you cannot say that the community really understands holistic admissions (or really cares too). They are relentlessly focused on academics at the expense of everything else. Even if they take the time to actually understand what holistic admissions look like they overly focus on academics thinking that 'peak' academics will overcome any weaknesses. They then are surprised because peak academics aren't valued as they believe (outside of truly peak like a USAMO medal). Insufficient attention is paid to the other factors involved in holistic admissions and even when undertaken they tend to be narrowly focused on an academic area so they end up having less impact than presumed. I expect that your third generation kid will do well as most groups culturally assimilate within a couple of generations.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:1500 has been the marker for many, many years. I believe it still is. I doubt many, if any, admissions officers care about a 1550 vs a 1540. Or a 1530 vs a 1570. All within the same standard deviation to account for those test takers having a good day vs those having a bad day.

Anyone in the 1500+ bucket gets extra attention paid to their ECs and other achievements.

We have data on this and a 1590 has more than twice the admission rate at top 11 schools as a 1500. It might not be worth the extra effort to get the 1590 but AOs are not indifferent to SAT scores above 1500

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

The journal Nature published an article about how college admissions is unfair to Asians ... in 2024? This was obvious in 1994

Oh BS. Asians prep like crazy. It’s the hook that favors their cultural approach. Their parents and grandparents were used to the cram schools and spending 6 hours a day after school cramming. Prepping and cheating for scores only matter admission is common in countries like Korea, India and China. Of course the author wants to get rid of athletic recruits, particularly for sports that aren’t dominated by Asians, legacy and donors as Asian alumni do not give or give far less than other demographics, first generation college and any other aspect that doesn’t favor them.

Getting over 1500 on the SAT is not challenging to a reasonably intelligent kid that has been forced to practice for years until they consistently nail a perfect score on practice tests. It’s not a sign of brilliance, it a sign of obedience to parents that demand a perfect score.

you would have said the same about Jews a century ago when they were the ones getting the short stick

+1. And there’s nothing stopping a non-Asian kid from prepping. In fact many of them do, despite the PP’s ignorant stereotype. Let the prizes go to the kids who work the hardest. Sorry you don’t believe in meritocracy-not everything is going to be given to your kid in life if they’re not performing.

Let’s just point out that these kids are not that work the hardest, it’s their parents that push the hardest and bully kids into having no childhood since preschool. Kids don’t have a free will in this.

what's the difference between that and kids who have been doing football (either kind) since preschool?

The football kids aren't asian. The name of the game is asian evasion.

Colleges have had football teams forever. Asians dominating and expecting to fill every spot is a relatively new thing in the past two decades. If the new demographics of top colleges is for every ten admits, 4-5 are Asians with no legacy or sports just test scores 2-3 are white possibly with sports or legacy, 2 are Hispanic with maybe a sport, no legacy, and 1 is AA with maybe sports then you are basically shutting out all white, Hispanic or AA students who are not top athletes or legacy donors or first generation college.

a hundred years ago you would have said that about jews

Not at all. Jewish students and alumni engaged and still engage in college. As alumni, they donated and often led efforts to support their school. They also did not push out or seek to push out every other single demographic and pine for changing the criteria to solely benefit their cultural practice of test prep Asians are constantly fighting against affirmative action, first generation, veteran or other criteria that really helps marginalized groups move up and adds vibrancy to the campus because they want those spots. It isn’t about learning or thinking or changing the world it’s about being a dutiful drone and gaming whatever possible to get ahead.

holistic admissions didn't exist 100 years ago. Before then ivies used test scores and grades exclusively. It was only when jews started push their way in that holistic admissions was introduced

Actually that is a cute myth that people like to spin. Admissions were holistic before they were test based. Only, the holistic part was "what is your family name
', what is you families club, what prep school did you got to. Grades were of secondary importance as long as the rest of the application reflected the traits desired which was "good Protestant families". Testing came about as an attempt to bring in a wider student body. It is unfortunate that holistic admissions were brought back to put curbs on the number of Jewish students.

Holistic admissions existed long before there were significant numbers of Asian applicants. You are asking schools to change practices to your preferences, not out of any remorse about the impact on Jewish applicants long ago but rather in a way that you believe will advantage Asian applicants because the present
system doesn't reflect what you believe is important not out of any sense of actually improving the system. The schools involved do not see themselves as you wish that they did and that is something that you just need to come to grips with.

you can tell yourself whatever you want to rationalize an antisemitic practice

+1. Offspring of Asian immigrants here and WASP grad. Not fair to label Asians as test-prep, non-contributing drones. Everyone has the potential to contribute to the college classroom and college community, regardless of their background. We value expanding educational opportunities, diversity of experience, and engagement with the wider community. I have volunteered and participated in non-academic things both in college and beyond. I want my third generation Asian-American kid to be an active participant in diverse college community where they can learn from and be enriched by interacting with people from a variety of backgrounds.

SLAC as they are looked down upon as not prestigious by many in the Asian and South Asian communities

lol Knowing that their kids attend a college without a stand-alone engineering school, many Asian parents couldn’t sleep tight at night.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Agreed. T20 universities and T10 lacs admit too many hooked applicants. If they are admitting over 20% QuestBridge, they should increase their class proportionally.

Nobody is admitt 20% QB. It is under 2% at most schools so just stop now.

It's commonplace now for top colleges admitting over 20% QuestBridge.

[url]https://www.questbridge.org/partners/college-partners/swarthmore-college
[/url]

24% affiliated with QuestBridge (Class of 2028)

That is a mistake on the Questbridge site. Swat took 15 QB kids in the class of 28 and 15 in the class of 27.

Could you please provide a source for this?

Do a bit of work. There is dat for almost every partner school available.

I did , and I provided the link stating 24% Swat admits are QuestBridge.

If you are serious, burden is on you to counter evidence.

NP. Could the difference be between matched QuestBridge students and students who went through the Questbridge application process, did not get matched, but still ended up going to Swarthmore? In the link, Questbridge says that 24% of Swarthmore's Class of 2028 are "affiliated" with Questbridge. If Questbridge surveys all its applicants, it might be possible that they know the colleges that its applicants ultimately attend, even if not matched through the program.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1500 has been the marker for many, many years. I believe it still is. I doubt many, if any, admissions officers care about a 1550 vs a 1540. Or a 1530 vs a 1570. All within the same standard deviation to account for those test takers having a good day vs those having a bad day.

Anyone in the 1500+ bucket gets extra attention paid to their ECs and other achievements.

We have data on this and a 1590 has more than twice the admission rate at top 11 schools as a 1500. It might not be worth the extra effort to get the 1590 but AOs are not indifferent to SAT scores above 1500

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

The journal Nature published an article about how college admissions is unfair to Asians ... in 2024? This was obvious in 1994

Oh BS. Asians prep like crazy. It’s the hook that favors their cultural approach. Their parents and grandparents were used to the cram schools and spending 6 hours a day after school cramming. Prepping and cheating for scores only matter admission is common in countries like Korea, India and China. Of course the author wants to get rid of athletic recruits, particularly for sports that aren’t dominated by Asians, legacy and donors as Asian alumni do not give or give far less than other demographics, first generation college and any other aspect that doesn’t favor them.

Getting over 1500 on the SAT is not challenging to a reasonably intelligent kid that has been forced to practice for years until they consistently nail a perfect score on practice tests. It’s not a sign of brilliance, it a sign of obedience to parents that demand a perfect score.

you would have said the same about Jews a century ago when they were the ones getting the short stick

+1. And there’s nothing stopping a non-Asian kid from prepping. In fact many of them do, despite the PP’s ignorant stereotype. Let the prizes go to the kids who work the hardest. Sorry you don’t believe in meritocracy-not everything is going to be given to your kid in life if they’re not performing.

Let’s just point out that these kids are not that work the hardest, it’s their parents that push the hardest and bully kids into having no childhood since preschool. Kids don’t have a free will in this.

what's the difference between that and kids who have been doing football (either kind) since preschool?

The football kids aren't asian. The name of the game is asian evasion.

Colleges have had football teams forever. Asians dominating and expecting to fill every spot is a relatively new thing in the past two decades. If the new demographics of top colleges is for every ten admits, 4-5 are Asians with no legacy or sports just test scores 2-3 are white possibly with sports or legacy, 2 are Hispanic with maybe a sport, no legacy, and 1 is AA with maybe sports then you are basically shutting out all white, Hispanic or AA students who are not top athletes or legacy donors or first generation college.

a hundred years ago you would have said that about jews

Not at all. Jewish students and alumni engaged and still engage in college. As alumni, they donated and often led efforts to support their school. They also did not push out or seek to push out every other single demographic and pine for changing the criteria to solely benefit their cultural practice of test prep Asians are constantly fighting against affirmative action, first generation, veteran or other criteria that really helps marginalized groups move up and adds vibrancy to the campus because they want those spots. It isn’t about learning or thinking or changing the world it’s about being a dutiful drone and gaming whatever possible to get ahead.

holistic admissions didn't exist 100 years ago. Before then ivies used test scores and grades exclusively. It was only when jews started push their way in that holistic admissions was introduced

Actually that is a cute myth that people like to spin. Admissions were holistic before they were test based. Only, the holistic part was "what is your family name
', what is you families club, what prep school did you got to. Grades were of secondary importance as long as the rest of the application reflected the traits desired which was "good Protestant families". Testing came about as an attempt to bring in a wider student body. It is unfortunate that holistic admissions were brought back to put curbs on the number of Jewish students.

Holistic admissions existed long before there were significant numbers of Asian applicants. You are asking schools to change practices to your preferences, not out of any remorse about the impact on Jewish applicants long ago but rather in a way that you believe will advantage Asian applicants because the present
system doesn't reflect what you believe is important not out of any sense of actually improving the system. The schools involved do not see themselves as you wish that they did and that is something that you just need to come to grips with.

you can tell yourself whatever you want to rationalize an antisemitic practice

+1. Offspring of Asian immigrants here and WASP grad. Not fair to label Asians as test-prep, non-contributing drones. Everyone has the potential to contribute to the college classroom and college community, regardless of their background. We value expanding educational opportunities, diversity of experience, and engagement with the wider community. I have volunteered and participated in non-academic things both in college and beyond. I want my third generation Asian-American kid to be an active participant in diverse college community where they can learn from and be enriched by interacting with people from a variety of backgrounds.

SLAC as they are looked down upon as not prestigious by many in the Asian and South Asian communities

lol Knowing that their kids attend a college without a stand-alone engineering school, many Asian parents couldn’t sleep tight at night.

It’s really a shame because kids who come from environments where SLAC’s are ignored in favor of T-50 universities are shutting off a whole range of potential options that could be good fits for what they want to do. And SLAC’s are great for some kids who are undecided about their major/general area of study.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defining merit as scores high on a standardized test isn’t deciding based on merit. Deciding based on who has the most APs when many schools offer few or no APs is not deciding based on merit. Working hard to prep for or game a test is not the same as working hard in college or life. GPA is even a good indicator as schools vary widely, cheating can be rampant, and some parents ensure their kid knows the material for the entire class before they sit down on the first day.

NP. How would you define merit?

Overcoming adversity
Building community where community was absent
Seeking out unique opportunities that represent passion and risk taking
Authentically helping others
Being self driven not parent driven

Np here. I liked your earlier post about what merit is not.

But most of the stuff here can be faked. Kids lie as do some teachers. Without verification, liars are admitted on these criteria.

It’s just a lottery! We should stop obsessing about who deserves to get in.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1500 has been the marker for many, many years. I believe it still is. I doubt many, if any, admissions officers care about a 1550 vs a 1540. Or a 1530 vs a 1570. All within the same standard deviation to account for those test takers having a good day vs those having a bad day.

Anyone in the 1500+ bucket gets extra attention paid to their ECs and other achievements.

We have data on this and a 1590 has more than twice the admission rate at top 11 schools as a 1500. It might not be worth the extra effort to get the 1590 but AOs are not indifferent to SAT scores above 1500

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

The journal Nature published an article about how college admissions is unfair to Asians ... in 2024? This was obvious in 1994

Oh BS. Asians prep like crazy. It’s the hook that favors their cultural approach. Their parents and grandparents were used to the cram schools and spending 6 hours a day after school cramming. Prepping and cheating for scores only matter admission is common in countries like Korea, India and China. Of course the author wants to get rid of athletic recruits, particularly for sports that aren’t dominated by Asians, legacy and donors as Asian alumni do not give or give far less than other demographics, first generation college and any other aspect that doesn’t favor them.

Getting over 1500 on the SAT is not challenging to a reasonably intelligent kid that has been forced to practice for years until they consistently nail a perfect score on practice tests. It’s not a sign of brilliance, it a sign of obedience to parents that demand a perfect score.

you would have said the same about Jews a century ago when they were the ones getting the short stick

+1. And there’s nothing stopping a non-Asian kid from prepping. In fact many of them do, despite the PP’s ignorant stereotype. Let the prizes go to the kids who work the hardest. Sorry you don’t believe in meritocracy-not everything is going to be given to your kid in life if they’re not performing.

Let’s just point out that these kids are not that work the hardest, it’s their parents that push the hardest and bully kids into having no childhood since preschool. Kids don’t have a free will in this.

what's the difference between that and kids who have been doing football (either kind) since preschool?

The football kids aren't asian. The name of the game is asian evasion.

Colleges have had football teams forever. Asians dominating and expecting to fill every spot is a relatively new thing in the past two decades. If the new demographics of top colleges is for every ten admits, 4-5 are Asians with no legacy or sports just test scores 2-3 are white possibly with sports or legacy, 2 are Hispanic with maybe a sport, no legacy, and 1 is AA with maybe sports then you are basically shutting out all white, Hispanic or AA students who are not top athletes or legacy donors or first generation college.

a hundred years ago you would have said that about jews

Not at all. Jewish students and alumni engaged and still engage in college. As alumni, they donated and often led efforts to support their school. They also did not push out or seek to push out every other single demographic and pine for changing the criteria to solely benefit their cultural practice of test prep Asians are constantly fighting against affirmative action, first generation, veteran or other criteria that really helps marginalized groups move up and adds vibrancy to the campus because they want those spots. It isn’t about learning or thinking or changing the world it’s about being a dutiful drone and gaming whatever possible to get ahead.

holistic admissions didn't exist 100 years ago. Before then ivies used test scores and grades exclusively. It was only when jews started push their way in that holistic admissions was introduced

Actually that is a cute myth that people like to spin. Admissions were holistic before they were test based. Only, the holistic part was "what is your family name
', what is you families club, what prep school did you got to. Grades were of secondary importance as long as the rest of the application reflected the traits desired which was "good Protestant families". Testing came about as an attempt to bring in a wider student body. It is unfortunate that holistic admissions were brought back to put curbs on the number of Jewish students.

Holistic admissions existed long before there were significant numbers of Asian applicants. You are asking schools to change practices to your preferences, not out of any remorse about the impact on Jewish applicants long ago but rather in a way that you believe will advantage Asian applicants because the present
system doesn't reflect what you believe is important not out of any sense of actually improving the system. The schools involved do not see themselves as you wish that they did and that is something that you just need to come to grips with.

you can tell yourself whatever you want to rationalize an antisemitic practice

+1. Offspring of Asian immigrants here and WASP grad. Not fair to label Asians as test-prep, non-contributing drones. Everyone has the potential to contribute to the college classroom and college community, regardless of their background. We value expanding educational opportunities, diversity of experience, and engagement with the wider community. I have volunteered and participated in non-academic things both in college and beyond. I want my third generation Asian-American kid to be an active participant in diverse college community where they can learn from and be enriched by interacting with people from a variety of backgrounds.

SLAC as they are looked down upon as not prestigious by many in the Asian and South Asian communities

lol Knowing that their kids attend a college without a stand-alone engineering school, many Asian parents couldn’t sleep tight at night.

It’s really a shame because kids who come from environments where SLAC’s are ignored in favor of T-50 universities are shutting off a whole range of potential options that could be good fits for what they want to do. And SLAC’s are great for some kids who are undecided about their major/general area of study.

Most SLACs are PWI. We are Asian. We were worried about the demographics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defining merit as scores high on a standardized test isn’t deciding based on merit. Deciding based on who has the most APs when many schools offer few or no APs is not deciding based on merit. Working hard to prep for or game a test is not the same as working hard in college or life. GPA is even a good indicator as schools vary widely, cheating can be rampant, and some parents ensure their kid knows the material for the entire class before they sit down on the first day. [/quote



Standardized tests are the single most reliable and objective measure of academic merit. We have known this since before WWII. We decided tests were less important when we elevated the hierarchy of oppression over the hierarchy of competence.

Standardized tests USED to be reliable before the Internet and test prep sector explosion. Americans are not above cheating, look at the Aunt Becky scandals but other countries especially China take cheating and gaming tests to a whole other level and at scale. India and Korea are not far behind.

At our elementary school, I was the volunteer coordinator for a year. Asian parents were always vying for the copy position. This is where you make copies of the worksheets and tests for the teachers. This prechromebook times. It was a boring tedious job. I found out it’s because they wanted access to the material a year or two ahead so their kids could practice and have an edge to get into the CES. Geez I thought that was crazy but the stuff that goes on now makes that pretty tame.

Some Asian parents have their kids take classes in the summer ( the same ones for next year), just to make sure kids know everything before the semester starts and get As. Haha. Kids learn the same classes twice.

Not just Asians. I know a HYPSM student who studied calc bc in 11th with a tutor so he could take the exam to get into a prestigious summer program. He is adopted. Native American. Adopted by white Harvard grad. Even with the uRM and legacy designation, they did this! Crazy but he got into H and M.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1500 has been the marker for many, many years. I believe it still is. I doubt many, if any, admissions officers care about a 1550 vs a 1540. Or a 1530 vs a 1570. All within the same standard deviation to account for those test takers having a good day vs those having a bad day.

Anyone in the 1500+ bucket gets extra attention paid to their ECs and other achievements.

We have data on this and a 1590 has more than twice the admission rate at top 11 schools as a 1500. It might not be worth the extra effort to get the 1590 but AOs are not indifferent to SAT scores above 1500

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

The journal Nature published an article about how college admissions is unfair to Asians ... in 2024? This was obvious in 1994

Oh BS. Asians prep like crazy. It’s the hook that favors their cultural approach. Their parents and grandparents were used to the cram schools and spending 6 hours a day after school cramming. Prepping and cheating for scores only matter admission is common in countries like Korea, India and China. Of course the author wants to get rid of athletic recruits, particularly for sports that aren’t dominated by Asians, legacy and donors as Asian alumni do not give or give far less than other demographics, first generation college and any other aspect that doesn’t favor them.

Getting over 1500 on the SAT is not challenging to a reasonably intelligent kid that has been forced to practice for years until they consistently nail a perfect score on practice tests. It’s not a sign of brilliance, it a sign of obedience to parents that demand a perfect score.

you would have said the same about Jews a century ago when they were the ones getting the short stick

+1. And there’s nothing stopping a non-Asian kid from prepping. In fact many of them do, despite the PP’s ignorant stereotype. Let the prizes go to the kids who work the hardest. Sorry you don’t believe in meritocracy-not everything is going to be given to your kid in life if they’re not performing.

Let’s just point out that these kids are not that work the hardest, it’s their parents that push the hardest and bully kids into having no childhood since preschool. Kids don’t have a free will in this.

what's the difference between that and kids who have been doing football (either kind) since preschool?

The football kids aren't asian. The name of the game is asian evasion.

Colleges have had football teams forever. Asians dominating and expecting to fill every spot is a relatively new thing in the past two decades. If the new demographics of top colleges is for every ten admits, 4-5 are Asians with no legacy or sports just test scores 2-3 are white possibly with sports or legacy, 2 are Hispanic with maybe a sport, no legacy, and 1 is AA with maybe sports then you are basically shutting out all white, Hispanic or AA students who are not top athletes or legacy donors or first generation college.

a hundred years ago you would have said that about jews

Not at all. Jewish students and alumni engaged and still engage in college. As alumni, they donated and often led efforts to support their school. They also did not push out or seek to push out every other single demographic and pine for changing the criteria to solely benefit their cultural practice of test prep Asians are constantly fighting against affirmative action, first generation, veteran or other criteria that really helps marginalized groups move up and adds vibrancy to the campus because they want those spots. It isn’t about learning or thinking or changing the world it’s about being a dutiful drone and gaming whatever possible to get ahead.

holistic admissions didn't exist 100 years ago. Before then ivies used test scores and grades exclusively. It was only when jews started push their way in that holistic admissions was introduced

Actually that is a cute myth that people like to spin. Admissions were holistic before they were test based. Only, the holistic part was "what is your family name
', what is you families club, what prep school did you got to. Grades were of secondary importance as long as the rest of the application reflected the traits desired which was "good Protestant families". Testing came about as an attempt to bring in a wider student body. It is unfortunate that holistic admissions were brought back to put curbs on the number of Jewish students.

Holistic admissions existed long before there were significant numbers of Asian applicants. You are asking schools to change practices to your preferences, not out of any remorse about the impact on Jewish applicants long ago but rather in a way that you believe will advantage Asian applicants because the present
system doesn't reflect what you believe is important not out of any sense of actually improving the system. The schools involved do not see themselves as you wish that they did and that is something that you just need to come to grips with.

you can tell yourself whatever you want to rationalize an antisemitic practice

+1. Offspring of Asian immigrants here and WASP grad. Not fair to label Asians as test-prep, non-contributing drones. Everyone has the potential to contribute to the college classroom and college community, regardless of their background. We value expanding educational opportunities, diversity of experience, and engagement with the wider community. I have volunteered and participated in non-academic things both in college and beyond. I want my third generation Asian-American kid to be an active participant in diverse college community where they can learn from and be enriched by interacting with people from a variety of backgrounds.

That is all well and good. We have a mixed family with a half Asian child also at a WASP school; I applaud your decision to attend a SLAC as they are looked down upon as not prestigious by many in the Asian and South Asian communities I have lived in and among the Asian community for 30 years now and you cannot say that the community really understands holistic admissions (or really cares too). They are relentlessly focused on academics at the expense of everything else. Even if they take the time to actually understand what holistic admissions look like they overly focus on academics thinking that 'peak' academics will overcome any weaknesses. They then are surprised because peak academics aren't valued as they believe (outside of truly peak like a USAMO medal). Insufficient attention is paid to the other factors involved in holistic admissions and even when undertaken they tend to be narrowly focused on an academic area so they end up having less impact than presumed. I expect that your third generation kid will do well as most groups culturally assimilate within a couple of generations.

Again with the sweeping generalizations. My 100% Asian family members, like any number of others in our community, not only understand holistic admissions but appreciate them. Furthermore, it didn’t take multiple generations - even my first gen parents never overly focused on academics. Frankly, they were too busy working to tiger parent us. There was no photocopying of next year’s curriculum or enrolling us in outside enrichment classes. I don’t doubt that some Asian families do, just as I’m sure some Caucasian and other families do; I’m just asking you to please stop with the blanket stereotypes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agreed. T20 universities and T10 lacs admit too many hooked applicants. If they are admitting over 20% QuestBridge, they should increase their class proportionally.

Nobody is admitt 20% QB. It is under 2% at most schools so just stop now.

It's commonplace now for top colleges admitting over 20% QuestBridge.

[url]https://www.questbridge.org/partners/college-partners/swarthmore-college
[/url]

24% affiliated with QuestBridge (Class of 2028)

That is a mistake on the Questbridge site. Swat took 15 QB kids in the class of 28 and 15 in the class of 27.

Could you please provide a source for this?

Do a bit of work. There is dat for almost every partner school available.

I did , and I provided the link stating 24% Swat admits are QuestBridge.

If you are serious, burden is on you to counter evidence.

NP. Could the difference be between matched QuestBridge students and students who went through the Questbridge application process, did not get matched, but still ended up going to Swarthmore? In the link, Questbridge says that 24% of Swarthmore's Class of 2028 are "affiliated" with Questbridge. If Questbridge surveys all its applicants, it might be possible that they know the colleges that its applicants ultimately attend, even if not matched through the program.

It does work that way. If you apply through QB, do not match in NCM and apply RD — if you get into and attend a QB school, you are a QB scholar.

qB also has a summer program — I forget the name. CPS maybe? Not all apply through QB but would be affiliated with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1500 has been the marker for many, many years. I believe it still is. I doubt many, if any, admissions officers care about a 1550 vs a 1540. Or a 1530 vs a 1570. All within the same standard deviation to account for those test takers having a good day vs those having a bad day.

Anyone in the 1500+ bucket gets extra attention paid to their ECs and other achievements.

We have data on this and a 1590 has more than twice the admission rate at top 11 schools as a 1500. It might not be worth the extra effort to get the 1590 but AOs are not indifferent to SAT scores above 1500

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

The journal Nature published an article about how college admissions is unfair to Asians ... in 2024? This was obvious in 1994

Oh BS. Asians prep like crazy. It’s the hook that favors their cultural approach. Their parents and grandparents were used to the cram schools and spending 6 hours a day after school cramming. Prepping and cheating for scores only matter admission is common in countries like Korea, India and China. Of course the author wants to get rid of athletic recruits, particularly for sports that aren’t dominated by Asians, legacy and donors as Asian alumni do not give or give far less than other demographics, first generation college and any other aspect that doesn’t favor them.

Getting over 1500 on the SAT is not challenging to a reasonably intelligent kid that has been forced to practice for years until they consistently nail a perfect score on practice tests. It’s not a sign of brilliance, it a sign of obedience to parents that demand a perfect score.

you would have said the same about Jews a century ago when they were the ones getting the short stick

+1. And there’s nothing stopping a non-Asian kid from prepping. In fact many of them do, despite the PP’s ignorant stereotype. Let the prizes go to the kids who work the hardest. Sorry you don’t believe in meritocracy-not everything is going to be given to your kid in life if they’re not performing.

Let’s just point out that these kids are not that work the hardest, it’s their parents that push the hardest and bully kids into having no childhood since preschool. Kids don’t have a free will in this.

what's the difference between that and kids who have been doing football (either kind) since preschool?

The football kids aren't asian. The name of the game is asian evasion.

Colleges have had football teams forever. Asians dominating and expecting to fill every spot is a relatively new thing in the past two decades. If the new demographics of top colleges is for every ten admits, 4-5 are Asians with no legacy or sports just test scores 2-3 are white possibly with sports or legacy, 2 are Hispanic with maybe a sport, no legacy, and 1 is AA with maybe sports then you are basically shutting out all white, Hispanic or AA students who are not top athletes or legacy donors or first generation college.

a hundred years ago you would have said that about jews

Not at all. Jewish students and alumni engaged and still engage in college. As alumni, they donated and often led efforts to support their school. They also did not push out or seek to push out every other single demographic and pine for changing the criteria to solely benefit their cultural practice of test prep Asians are constantly fighting against affirmative action, first generation, veteran or other criteria that really helps marginalized groups move up and adds vibrancy to the campus because they want those spots. It isn’t about learning or thinking or changing the world it’s about being a dutiful drone and gaming whatever possible to get ahead.

holistic admissions didn't exist 100 years ago. Before then ivies used test scores and grades exclusively. It was only when jews started push their way in that holistic admissions was introduced

Actually that is a cute myth that people like to spin. Admissions were holistic before they were test based. Only, the holistic part was "what is your family name
', what is you families club, what prep school did you got to. Grades were of secondary importance as long as the rest of the application reflected the traits desired which was "good Protestant families". Testing came about as an attempt to bring in a wider student body. It is unfortunate that holistic admissions were brought back to put curbs on the number of Jewish students.

Holistic admissions existed long before there were significant numbers of Asian applicants. You are asking schools to change practices to your preferences, not out of any remorse about the impact on Jewish applicants long ago but rather in a way that you believe will advantage Asian applicants because the present
system doesn't reflect what you believe is important not out of any sense of actually improving the system. The schools involved do not see themselves as you wish that they did and that is something that you just need to come to grips with.

you can tell yourself whatever you want to rationalize an antisemitic practice

+1. Offspring of Asian immigrants here and WASP grad. Not fair to label Asians as test-prep, non-contributing drones. Everyone has the potential to contribute to the college classroom and college community, regardless of their background. We value expanding educational opportunities, diversity of experience, and engagement with the wider community. I have volunteered and participated in non-academic things both in college and beyond. I want my third generation Asian-American kid to be an active participant in diverse college community where they can learn from and be enriched by interacting with people from a variety of backgrounds.

That is all well and good. We have a mixed family with a half Asian child also at a WASP school; I applaud your decision to attend a SLAC as they are looked down upon as not prestigious by many in the Asian and South Asian communities I have lived in and among the Asian community for 30 years now and you cannot say that the community really understands holistic admissions (or really cares too). They are relentlessly focused on academics at the expense of everything else. Even if they take the time to actually understand what holistic admissions look like they overly focus on academics thinking that 'peak' academics will overcome any weaknesses. They then are surprised because peak academics aren't valued as they believe (outside of truly peak like a USAMO medal). Insufficient attention is paid to the other factors involved in holistic admissions and even when undertaken they tend to be narrowly focused on an academic area so they end up having less impact than presumed. I expect that your third generation kid will do well as most groups culturally assimilate within a couple of generations.

Actually if a kid focuses narrowly on an academic area that they are genuinely interested in, they can develop a true spike which makes them very attractive. My Asian kid is at H ( admitted to couple of HYPSM) and had this kind of spike. It was kid’s true passion and done independently or either help of teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defining merit as scores high on a standardized test isn’t deciding based on merit. Deciding based on who has the most APs when many schools offer few or no APs is not deciding based on merit. Working hard to prep for or game a test is not the same as working hard in college or life. GPA is even a good indicator as schools vary widely, cheating can be rampant, and some parents ensure their kid knows the material for the entire class before they sit down on the first day. [/quote



Standardized tests are the single most reliable and objective measure of academic merit. We have known this since before WWII. We decided tests were less important when we elevated the hierarchy of oppression over the hierarchy of competence.

Standardized tests USED to be reliable before the Internet and test prep sector explosion. Americans are not above cheating, look at the Aunt Becky scandals but other countries especially China take cheating and gaming tests to a whole other level and at scale. India and Korea are not far behind.

At our elementary school, I was the volunteer coordinator for a year. Asian parents were always vying for the copy position. This is where you make copies of the worksheets and tests for the teachers. This prechromebook times. It was a boring tedious job. I found out it’s because they wanted access to the material a year or two ahead so their kids could practice and have an edge to get into the CES. Geez I thought that was crazy but the stuff that goes on now makes that pretty tame.

Some Asian parents have their kids take classes in the summer ( the same ones for next year), just to make sure kids know everything before the semester starts and get As. Haha. Kids learn the same classes twice.

Not just Asians. I know a HYPSM student who studied calc bc in 11th with a tutor so he could take the exam to get into a prestigious summer program. He is adopted. Native American. Adopted by white Harvard grad. Even with the uRM and legacy designation, they did this! Crazy but he got into H and M.

Thank you for providing an example of how a person of any race might do this. Meanwhile, my 100% Asian kid took Calc BC in 9th grade and has never had a tutor, taken an enrichment course, repeated a class, or even utilized a single math flash card in their life. Then again, they are also great at humanities, plus have significant non-academic interests. They got into their first choice HYPSM in December.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1500 has been the marker for many, many years. I believe it still is. I doubt many, if any, admissions officers care about a 1550 vs a 1540. Or a 1530 vs a 1570. All within the same standard deviation to account for those test takers having a good day vs those having a bad day.

Anyone in the 1500+ bucket gets extra attention paid to their ECs and other achievements.

We have data on this and a 1590 has more than twice the admission rate at top 11 schools as a 1500. It might not be worth the extra effort to get the 1590 but AOs are not indifferent to SAT scores above 1500

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

The journal Nature published an article about how college admissions is unfair to Asians ... in 2024? This was obvious in 1994

Oh BS. Asians prep like crazy. It’s the hook that favors their cultural approach. Their parents and grandparents were used to the cram schools and spending 6 hours a day after school cramming. Prepping and cheating for scores only matter admission is common in countries like Korea, India and China. Of course the author wants to get rid of athletic recruits, particularly for sports that aren’t dominated by Asians, legacy and donors as Asian alumni do not give or give far less than other demographics, first generation college and any other aspect that doesn’t favor them.

Getting over 1500 on the SAT is not challenging to a reasonably intelligent kid that has been forced to practice for years until they consistently nail a perfect score on practice tests. It’s not a sign of brilliance, it a sign of obedience to parents that demand a perfect score.

you would have said the same about Jews a century ago when they were the ones getting the short stick

+1. And there’s nothing stopping a non-Asian kid from prepping. In fact many of them do, despite the PP’s ignorant stereotype. Let the prizes go to the kids who work the hardest. Sorry you don’t believe in meritocracy-not everything is going to be given to your kid in life if they’re not performing.

Let’s just point out that these kids are not that work the hardest, it’s their parents that push the hardest and bully kids into having no childhood since preschool. Kids don’t have a free will in this.

what's the difference between that and kids who have been doing football (either kind) since preschool?

The football kids aren't asian. The name of the game is asian evasion.

Colleges have had football teams forever. Asians dominating and expecting to fill every spot is a relatively new thing in the past two decades. If the new demographics of top colleges is for every ten admits, 4-5 are Asians with no legacy or sports just test scores 2-3 are white possibly with sports or legacy, 2 are Hispanic with maybe a sport, no legacy, and 1 is AA with maybe sports then you are basically shutting out all white, Hispanic or AA students who are not top athletes or legacy donors or first generation college.

a hundred years ago you would have said that about jews

Not at all. Jewish students and alumni engaged and still engage in college. As alumni, they donated and often led efforts to support their school. They also did not push out or seek to push out every other single demographic and pine for changing the criteria to solely benefit their cultural practice of test prep Asians are constantly fighting against affirmative action, first generation, veteran or other criteria that really helps marginalized groups move up and adds vibrancy to the campus because they want those spots. It isn’t about learning or thinking or changing the world it’s about being a dutiful drone and gaming whatever possible to get ahead.

holistic admissions didn't exist 100 years ago. Before then ivies used test scores and grades exclusively. It was only when jews started push their way in that holistic admissions was introduced

Actually that is a cute myth that people like to spin. Admissions were holistic before they were test based. Only, the holistic part was "what is your family name
', what is you families club, what prep school did you got to. Grades were of secondary importance as long as the rest of the application reflected the traits desired which was "good Protestant families". Testing came about as an attempt to bring in a wider student body. It is unfortunate that holistic admissions were brought back to put curbs on the number of Jewish students.

Holistic admissions existed long before there were significant numbers of Asian applicants. You are asking schools to change practices to your preferences, not out of any remorse about the impact on Jewish applicants long ago but rather in a way that you believe will advantage Asian applicants because the present
system doesn't reflect what you believe is important not out of any sense of actually improving the system. The schools involved do not see themselves as you wish that they did and that is something that you just need to come to grips with.

you can tell yourself whatever you want to rationalize an antisemitic practice

+1. Offspring of Asian immigrants here and WASP grad. Not fair to label Asians as test-prep, non-contributing drones. Everyone has the potential to contribute to the college classroom and college community, regardless of their background. We value expanding educational opportunities, diversity of experience, and engagement with the wider community. I have volunteered and participated in non-academic things both in college and beyond. I want my third generation Asian-American kid to be an active participant in diverse college community where they can learn from and be enriched by interacting with people from a variety of backgrounds.

That is all well and good. We have a mixed family with a half Asian child also at a WASP school; I applaud your decision to attend a SLAC as they are looked down upon as not prestigious by many in the Asian and South Asian communities I have lived in and among the Asian community for 30 years now and you cannot say that the community really understands holistic admissions (or really cares too). They are relentlessly focused on academics at the expense of everything else. Even if they take the time to actually understand what holistic admissions look like they overly focus on academics thinking that 'peak' academics will overcome any weaknesses. They then are surprised because peak academics aren't valued as they believe (outside of truly peak like a USAMO medal). Insufficient attention is paid to the other factors involved in holistic admissions and even when undertaken they tend to be narrowly focused on an academic area so they end up having less impact than presumed. I expect that your third generation kid will do well as most groups culturally assimilate within a couple of generations.

Again with the sweeping generalizations. My 100% Asian family members, like any number of others in our community, not only understand holistic admissions but appreciate them. Furthermore, it didn’t take multiple generations - even my first gen parents never overly focused on academics. Frankly, they were too busy working to tiger parent us. There was no photocopying of next year’s curriculum or enrolling us in outside enrichment classes. I don’t doubt that some Asian families do, just as I’m sure some Caucasian and other families do; I’m just asking you to please stop with the blanket stereotypes.

No, because I live in them and they are all too true. I wish that they weren't given that we are a mixed family and live in a very Asian community in the Bay area.

You are mixing posters together but I am in a world where there are schools that are 90+% Asian engineering families and the lack of knowledge is stunning. The obsession with the Ivy's is stunning. The questioning how the Asian Vals parent could let her fo to Williams is stunning. It is all beyond ridiculous. Someone earlier commented about an Asian parent not being able to sleep if there isn't an engineering option...that crap is true. One of my D's friends was pressured hard not to attend Babson but is she changed her mind on business there was no engineering to swithch too.

Not every Asian family is that way but far too many are and I am sorry if that hits home a bit too hard for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1500 has been the marker for many, many years. I believe it still is. I doubt many, if any, admissions officers care about a 1550 vs a 1540. Or a 1530 vs a 1570. All within the same standard deviation to account for those test takers having a good day vs those having a bad day.

Anyone in the 1500+ bucket gets extra attention paid to their ECs and other achievements.

We have data on this and a 1590 has more than twice the admission rate at top 11 schools as a 1500. It might not be worth the extra effort to get the 1590 but AOs are not indifferent to SAT scores above 1500

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

The journal Nature published an article about how college admissions is unfair to Asians ... in 2024? This was obvious in 1994

Oh BS. Asians prep like crazy. It’s the hook that favors their cultural approach. Their parents and grandparents were used to the cram schools and spending 6 hours a day after school cramming. Prepping and cheating for scores only matter admission is common in countries like Korea, India and China. Of course the author wants to get rid of athletic recruits, particularly for sports that aren’t dominated by Asians, legacy and donors as Asian alumni do not give or give far less than other demographics, first generation college and any other aspect that doesn’t favor them.

Getting over 1500 on the SAT is not challenging to a reasonably intelligent kid that has been forced to practice for years until they consistently nail a perfect score on practice tests. It’s not a sign of brilliance, it a sign of obedience to parents that demand a perfect score.

you would have said the same about Jews a century ago when they were the ones getting the short stick

+1. And there’s nothing stopping a non-Asian kid from prepping. In fact many of them do, despite the PP’s ignorant stereotype. Let the prizes go to the kids who work the hardest. Sorry you don’t believe in meritocracy-not everything is going to be given to your kid in life if they’re not performing.

Let’s just point out that these kids are not that work the hardest, it’s their parents that push the hardest and bully kids into having no childhood since preschool. Kids don’t have a free will in this.

what's the difference between that and kids who have been doing football (either kind) since preschool?

The football kids aren't asian. The name of the game is asian evasion.

Colleges have had football teams forever. Asians dominating and expecting to fill every spot is a relatively new thing in the past two decades. If the new demographics of top colleges is for every ten admits, 4-5 are Asians with no legacy or sports just test scores 2-3 are white possibly with sports or legacy, 2 are Hispanic with maybe a sport, no legacy, and 1 is AA with maybe sports then you are basically shutting out all white, Hispanic or AA students who are not top athletes or legacy donors or first generation college.

a hundred years ago you would have said that about jews

Not at all. Jewish students and alumni engaged and still engage in college. As alumni, they donated and often led efforts to support their school. They also did not push out or seek to push out every other single demographic and pine for changing the criteria to solely benefit their cultural practice of test prep Asians are constantly fighting against affirmative action, first generation, veteran or other criteria that really helps marginalized groups move up and adds vibrancy to the campus because they want those spots. It isn’t about learning or thinking or changing the world it’s about being a dutiful drone and gaming whatever possible to get ahead.

holistic admissions didn't exist 100 years ago. Before then ivies used test scores and grades exclusively. It was only when jews started push their way in that holistic admissions was introduced

Actually that is a cute myth that people like to spin. Admissions were holistic before they were test based. Only, the holistic part was "what is your family name
', what is you families club, what prep school did you got to. Grades were of secondary importance as long as the rest of the application reflected the traits desired which was "good Protestant families". Testing came about as an attempt to bring in a wider student body. It is unfortunate that holistic admissions were brought back to put curbs on the number of Jewish students.

Holistic admissions existed long before there were significant numbers of Asian applicants. You are asking schools to change practices to your preferences, not out of any remorse about the impact on Jewish applicants long ago but rather in a way that you believe will advantage Asian applicants because the present
system doesn't reflect what you believe is important not out of any sense of actually improving the system. The schools involved do not see themselves as you wish that they did and that is something that you just need to come to grips with.

you can tell yourself whatever you want to rationalize an antisemitic practice

+1. Offspring of Asian immigrants here and WASP grad. Not fair to label Asians as test-prep, non-contributing drones. Everyone has the potential to contribute to the college classroom and college community, regardless of their background. We value expanding educational opportunities, diversity of experience, and engagement with the wider community. I have volunteered and participated in non-academic things both in college and beyond. I want my third generation Asian-American kid to be an active participant in diverse college community where they can learn from and be enriched by interacting with people from a variety of backgrounds.

That is all well and good. We have a mixed family with a half Asian child also at a WASP school; I applaud your decision to attend a SLAC as they are looked down upon as not prestigious by many in the Asian and South Asian communities I have lived in and among the Asian community for 30 years now and you cannot say that the community really understands holistic admissions (or really cares too). They are relentlessly focused on academics at the expense of everything else. Even if they take the time to actually understand what holistic admissions look like they overly focus on academics thinking that 'peak' academics will overcome any weaknesses. They then are surprised because peak academics aren't valued as they believe (outside of truly peak like a USAMO medal). Insufficient attention is paid to the other factors involved in holistic admissions and even when undertaken they tend to be narrowly focused on an academic area so they end up having less impact than presumed. I expect that your third generation kid will do well as most groups culturally assimilate within a couple of generations.

Actually if a kid focuses narrowly on an academic area that they are genuinely interested in, they can develop a true spike which makes them very attractive. My Asian kid is at H ( admitted to couple of HYPSM) and had this kind of spike. It was kid’s true passion and done independently or either help of teachers.

That is true, but true spikes of all kinds are rare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Defining merit as scores high on a standardized test isn’t deciding based on merit. Deciding based on who has the most APs when many schools offer few or no APs is not deciding based on merit. Working hard to prep for or game a test is not the same as working hard in college or life. GPA is even a good indicator as schools vary widely, cheating can be rampant, and some parents ensure their kid knows the material for the entire class before they sit down on the first day.

Standardized tests are the single most reliable and objective measure of academic merit. We have known this since before WWII. We decided tests were less important when we elevated the hierarchy of oppression over the hierarchy of competence.

Standardized tests USED to be reliable before the Internet and test prep sector explosion. Americans are not above cheating, look at the Aunt Becky scandals but other countries especially China take cheating and gaming tests to a whole other level and at scale. India and Korea are not far behind.

At our elementary school, I was the volunteer coordinator for a year. Asian parents were always vying for the copy position. This is where you make copies of the worksheets and tests for the teachers. This prechromebook times. It was a boring tedious job. I found out it’s because they wanted access to the material a year or two ahead so their kids could practice and have an edge to get into the CES. Geez I thought that was crazy but the stuff that goes on now makes that pretty tame.

Some Asian parents have their kids take classes in the summer ( the same ones for next year), just to make sure kids know everything before the semester starts and get As. Haha. Kids learn the same classes twice.

good idea thx

Not a secret. It’s widespread in Asian community.

If you go to Cupertino CA, there is one entire road that’s occupied by test prep, AP tutoring, math competition training, art EC, music EC tutoring businesses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1500 has been the marker for many, many years. I believe it still is. I doubt many, if any, admissions officers care about a 1550 vs a 1540. Or a 1530 vs a 1570. All within the same standard deviation to account for those test takers having a good day vs those having a bad day.

Anyone in the 1500+ bucket gets extra attention paid to their ECs and other achievements.

We have data on this and a 1590 has more than twice the admission rate at top 11 schools as a 1500. It might not be worth the extra effort to get the 1590 but AOs are not indifferent to SAT scores above 1500

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55119-0

The journal Nature published an article about how college admissions is unfair to Asians ... in 2024? This was obvious in 1994

Oh BS. Asians prep like crazy. It’s the hook that favors their cultural approach. Their parents and grandparents were used to the cram schools and spending 6 hours a day after school cramming. Prepping and cheating for scores only matter admission is common in countries like Korea, India and China. Of course the author wants to get rid of athletic recruits, particularly for sports that aren’t dominated by Asians, legacy and donors as Asian alumni do not give or give far less than other demographics, first generation college and any other aspect that doesn’t favor them.

Getting over 1500 on the SAT is not challenging to a reasonably intelligent kid that has been forced to practice for years until they consistently nail a perfect score on practice tests. It’s not a sign of brilliance, it a sign of obedience to parents that demand a perfect score.

you would have said the same about Jews a century ago when they were the ones getting the short stick

+1. And there’s nothing stopping a non-Asian kid from prepping. In fact many of them do, despite the PP’s ignorant stereotype. Let the prizes go to the kids who work the hardest. Sorry you don’t believe in meritocracy-not everything is going to be given to your kid in life if they’re not performing.

Let’s just point out that these kids are not that work the hardest, it’s their parents that push the hardest and bully kids into having no childhood since preschool. Kids don’t have a free will in this.

what's the difference between that and kids who have been doing football (either kind) since preschool?

The football kids aren't asian. The name of the game is asian evasion.

Colleges have had football teams forever. Asians dominating and expecting to fill every spot is a relatively new thing in the past two decades. If the new demographics of top colleges is for every ten admits, 4-5 are Asians with no legacy or sports just test scores 2-3 are white possibly with sports or legacy, 2 are Hispanic with maybe a sport, no legacy, and 1 is AA with maybe sports then you are basically shutting out all white, Hispanic or AA students who are not top athletes or legacy donors or first generation college.

a hundred years ago you would have said that about jews

Not at all. Jewish students and alumni engaged and still engage in college. As alumni, they donated and often led efforts to support their school. They also did not push out or seek to push out every other single demographic and pine for changing the criteria to solely benefit their cultural practice of test prep Asians are constantly fighting against affirmative action, first generation, veteran or other criteria that really helps marginalized groups move up and adds vibrancy to the campus because they want those spots. It isn’t about learning or thinking or changing the world it’s about being a dutiful drone and gaming whatever possible to get ahead.

holistic admissions didn't exist 100 years ago. Before then ivies used test scores and grades exclusively. It was only when jews started push their way in that holistic admissions was introduced

Actually that is a cute myth that people like to spin. Admissions were holistic before they were test based. Only, the holistic part was "what is your family name
', what is you families club, what prep school did you got to. Grades were of secondary importance as long as the rest of the application reflected the traits desired which was "good Protestant families". Testing came about as an attempt to bring in a wider student body. It is unfortunate that holistic admissions were brought back to put curbs on the number of Jewish students.

Holistic admissions existed long before there were significant numbers of Asian applicants. You are asking schools to change practices to your preferences, not out of any remorse about the impact on Jewish applicants long ago but rather in a way that you believe will advantage Asian applicants because the present
system doesn't reflect what you believe is important not out of any sense of actually improving the system. The schools involved do not see themselves as you wish that they did and that is something that you just need to come to grips with.

you can tell yourself whatever you want to rationalize an antisemitic practice

+1. Offspring of Asian immigrants here and WASP grad. Not fair to label Asians as test-prep, non-contributing drones. Everyone has the potential to contribute to the college classroom and college community, regardless of their background. We value expanding educational opportunities, diversity of experience, and engagement with the wider community. I have volunteered and participated in non-academic things both in college and beyond. I want my third generation Asian-American kid to be an active participant in diverse college community where they can learn from and be enriched by interacting with people from a variety of backgrounds.

That is all well and good. We have a mixed family with a half Asian child also at a WASP school; I applaud your decision to attend a SLAC as they are looked down upon as not prestigious by many in the Asian and South Asian communities I have lived in and among the Asian community for 30 years now and you cannot say that the community really understands holistic admissions (or really cares too). They are relentlessly focused on academics at the expense of everything else. Even if they take the time to actually understand what holistic admissions look like they overly focus on academics thinking that 'peak' academics will overcome any weaknesses. They then are surprised because peak academics aren't valued as they believe (outside of truly peak like a USAMO medal). Insufficient attention is paid to the other factors involved in holistic admissions and even when undertaken they tend to be narrowly focused on an academic area so they end up having less impact than presumed. I expect that your third generation kid will do well as most groups culturally assimilate within a couple of generations.

Again with the sweeping generalizations. My 100% Asian family members, like any number of others in our community, not only understand holistic admissions but appreciate them. Furthermore, it didn’t take multiple generations - even my first gen parents never overly focused on academics. Frankly, they were too busy working to tiger parent us. There was no photocopying of next year’s curriculum or enrolling us in outside enrichment classes. I don’t doubt that some Asian families do, just as I’m sure some Caucasian and other families do; I’m just asking you to please stop with the blanket stereotypes.

No, because I live in them and they are all too true. I wish that they weren't given that we are a mixed family and live in a very Asian community in the Bay area.

You are mixing posters together but I am in a world where there are schools that are 90+% Asian engineering families and the lack of knowledge is stunning. The obsession with the Ivy's is stunning. The questioning how the Asian Vals parent could let her fo to Williams is stunning. It is all beyond ridiculous. Someone earlier commented about an Asian parent not being able to sleep if there isn't an engineering option...that crap is true. One of my D's friends was pressured hard not to attend Babson but is she changed her mind on business there was no engineering to swithch too.

Not every Asian family is that way but far too many are and I am sorry if that hits home a bit too hard for you.

It doesn’t hit home at all, much less hard. Your experience in a mixed family in the Bay Area has been different than my mine in a 100% Asian family in SoCal, I guess.