Summer 2024 Olympics

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taking away her medal because of the judge's error is a new precedent. They really only do it for bad behavior or cheating. Neither applies in this case. I am curious if the judges will be reprimanded now

+1 and what is frustrating here is that this is a case of multiple judging errors that compounded impacting multiple athletes. Potentially even more than we know. The athletes in question did nothing wrong and in fact competed at the highest level with grace and sportsmanship -- there is nothing more any of them could have done and yet Jordan Chiles is being asked to pay the price for inept judging.

Just to be clear here are the errors the judges made:
1. They erroneously failed to give Chiles credit for a completed element (a tour jeté full that she absolutely completed) leading to her difficulty score being wrong. This is not in dispute. Chiles did the element and was not given credit for it. The judges already admitted this when they granted her petition about her difficulty score. I should also note here that the judges ALSO failed to give Chiles credit for this move in the team finals which is why her coaches were ready to petition -- they knew the judges had a history of failing to give credit.

2. They apparently also erroneously accepted a petition from Chiles' coaches after the time limit for her petition was up. This is 100% on them and not on Chiles or her coaches who are not in charge of keeping the clock for petitions. They could have said "no more petitions -- time is up" and the petition would never have been filed and it would have been unfair but also significantly less of a mess than the current situation.

3. The judges may ALSO have screwed up Ana Barbosu's score. She was given a neutral point deduction of -.1 Neutral point deductions are not issued by the panel of judges but are automatically applied when a gymnast goes over time or in the case of floor steps out of bounds. The idea is that these are not subjective -- either an athlete is over time or not or over the line or not. But it's a bit opaque -- the score will tell you there was a neutral deduction but won't tell you what it's for. Usually it's obvious and the athlete knows what the problem was. But in Barbosu's case it was not obvious. She also filed a petition regarding her neutral point deduction. It was denied. However IF the deduction was for stepping out of bounds there seems to be video evidence that she didn't step out -- she came close but her heel never actually touched the line.

So it's actually entirely possible that Barbosu should be the bronze medalist but we don't know because we don't know if that's what her deduction was for and the judges don't have to provide evidence of the deduction even though it's the one deduction that is supposed to be totally objective and easy to prove. At the same time we know for certain that Chiles final score is incorrect and should be .1 higher based on her actual routine but she is being given an artificially low score due to a technical issue of her coaches filing the petition to get her score corrected FOUR SECONDS late. And yet even though this was apparently a terrible error worthy of stripping an athlete of a medal the judges did not bother to check the time of the petition when it was filed.

An embarassment and NOT for Chiles or Barbosu or any of the involved coaches. There is only one way to make it right and that is to award two bronze medals and admit publicly that this was a mistake by the judges and only the judges. That is the only just outcome at this point because an actual fair competition is now impossible. The damage has been done.

The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if the tribunal somehow realized or found out that Barbusa's .1 deduction was in error because her heel never touched the line and that therefore she should still have beaten Chiles even with the corrected score giving her credit for the tour full. But it would be too embarrassing to admit that not only was the deduction given in error but the petition to correct it denied in error so instead they did this.

Lack of transparency is judging decisions can really erode confidence in the fairness of competitions.

There are actually three gymnasts involved. Chiles, Barbosu, and Maneca-Voinea. The latter two received the same score, but Barbosu had a higher E-score, which is the tie breaker. Maneca-Voinea was dinged for stepping out of bounds. They did inquire about her score, however it was over the D-score she was given and not about the out of bounds deduction. The inquiry was denied. So Romania eventually got their medal, but it was for the gymnast who should have placed 5th.

[Anonymous]

Right, it was the OTHER Romanian gymnast that was penalized for something no one can figure out and the judges won’t explain and for some reason gymnasts aren’t allowed to question?

She is likely the rightful bronze medalist, but the Romanians chose to go after the 4 seconds which gives it to the gymnast who thought she was placing 3rd and prematurely celebrated.

None of the gymnasts did anything wrong (well, at least during competition-apparently, there was some nasty social media from at least one of the Romanian gymnasts) yet the worst possible outcome is what this court has decided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taking away her medal because of the judge's error is a new precedent. They really only do it for bad behavior or cheating. Neither applies in this case. I am curious if the judges will be reprimanded now

+1 and what is frustrating here is that this is a case of multiple judging errors that compounded impacting multiple athletes. Potentially even more than we know. The athletes in question did nothing wrong and in fact competed at the highest level with grace and sportsmanship -- there is nothing more any of them could have done and yet Jordan Chiles is being asked to pay the price for inept judging.

Just to be clear here are the errors the judges made:
1. They erroneously failed to give Chiles credit for a completed element (a tour jeté full that she absolutely completed) leading to her difficulty score being wrong. This is not in dispute. Chiles did the element and was not given credit for it. The judges already admitted this when they granted her petition about her difficulty score. I should also note here that the judges ALSO failed to give Chiles credit for this move in the team finals which is why her coaches were ready to petition -- they knew the judges had a history of failing to give credit.

2. They apparently also erroneously accepted a petition from Chiles' coaches after the time limit for her petition was up. This is 100% on them and not on Chiles or her coaches who are not in charge of keeping the clock for petitions. They could have said "no more petitions -- time is up" and the petition would never have been filed and it would have been unfair but also significantly less of a mess than the current situation.

3. The judges may ALSO have screwed up Ana Barbosu's score. She was given a neutral point deduction of -.1 Neutral point deductions are not issued by the panel of judges but are automatically applied when a gymnast goes over time or in the case of floor steps out of bounds. The idea is that these are not subjective -- either an athlete is over time or not or over the line or not. But it's a bit opaque -- the score will tell you there was a neutral deduction but won't tell you what it's for. Usually it's obvious and the athlete knows what the problem was. But in Barbosu's case it was not obvious. She also filed a petition regarding her neutral point deduction. It was denied. However IF the deduction was for stepping out of bounds there seems to be video evidence that she didn't step out -- she came close but her heel never actually touched the line.

So it's actually entirely possible that Barbosu should be the bronze medalist but we don't know because we don't know if that's what her deduction was for and the judges don't have to provide evidence of the deduction even though it's the one deduction that is supposed to be totally objective and easy to prove. At the same time we know for certain that Chiles final score is incorrect and should be .1 higher based on her actual routine but she is being given an artificially low score due to a technical issue of her coaches filing the petition to get her score corrected FOUR SECONDS late. And yet even though this was apparently a terrible error worthy of stripping an athlete of a medal the judges did not bother to check the time of the petition when it was filed.

An embarassment and NOT for Chiles or Barbosu or any of the involved coaches. There is only one way to make it right and that is to award two bronze medals and admit publicly that this was a mistake by the judges and only the judges. That is the only just outcome at this point because an actual fair competition is now impossible. The damage has been done.

The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if the tribunal somehow realized or found out that Barbusa's .1 deduction was in error because her heel never touched the line and that therefore she should still have beaten Chiles even with the corrected score giving her credit for the tour full. But it would be too embarrassing to admit that not only was the deduction given in error but the petition to correct it denied in error so instead they did this.

Lack of transparency is judging decisions can really erode confidence in the fairness of competitions.

There are actually three gymnasts involved. Chiles, Barbosu, and Maneca-Voinea. The latter two received the same score, but Barbosu had a higher E-score, which is the tie breaker. Maneca-Voinea was dinged for stepping out of bounds. They did inquire about her score, however it was over the D-score she was given and not about the out of bounds deduction. The inquiry was denied. So Romania eventually got their medal, but it was for the gymnast who should have placed 5th.

My bad -- I was going by my memory if the event and mixed up the Romanian gymnasts.

If have to go back and check but I do think petitions were filed for both the Romanians, and that both were denied. Could be wrong though. I watched the even live via a UK coverage feed and there was a lot of discussion of the petitions. The judging was also generally very slow that day (for both beam and floor) and there appeared to be quite a bit of frustration among all the gymnasts and coaches about scores. That's not super unusual in gymnastics-- it's like baseball where sometimes everyone is annoyed with the ump over the strike zone and other times everyone is fine with it. But I thought it was notable even before the issue of the bronze on floor came up. The gym had a weird vibe that day.

[Anonymous]

Is it normal for them to not be able to appeal when there's proof they didn't step out of line?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it normal for them to not be able to appeal when there's proof they didn't step out of line?

What do you mean proof? It’s not like football where you can have the officials watch the replay. They are judging in real time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Right, it was the OTHER Romanian gymnast that was penalized for something no one can figure out and the judges won’t explain and for some reason gymnasts aren’t allowed to question?

She is likely the rightful bronze medalist, but the Romanians chose to go after the 4 seconds which gives it to the gymnast who thought she was placing 3rd and prematurely celebrated.

None of the gymnasts did anything wrong (well, at least during competition-apparently, there was some nasty social media from at least one of the Romanian gymnasts) yet the worst possible outcome is what this court has decided.

The Romanians filed appeals on behalf of both gymnasts. Sabrina lost hers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it normal for them to not be able to appeal when there's proof they didn't step out of line?

What do you mean proof? It’s not like football where you can have the officials watch the replay. They are judging in real time.

And there is video evidence they were wrong

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is it normal for them to not be able to appeal when there's proof they didn't step out of line?

What do you mean proof? It’s not like football where you can have the officials watch the replay. They are judging in real time.

And there is video evidence they were wrong

So? That’s not how this works. The Romanians appealed the inquiry and got the outcome they wanted anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can they lower Jordan’s score because the inquiry was late but also be considering the Romanian’s challenges now?

It was filed through a different channel. There was nothing the Romanian team could do on the floor to challenge the decision. They had to petition through the Court of Arbitration for Sport and it took several days for them to make a ruling.

So the Romanian team brought up the 4 seconds. How did they know about it?

Thw judges have to write down when the inquiries are received.i assume they were able to see the times that way. It brings up the question if they knew it was late then why was it even accepted? I know it was overlooked because there was a lot happening but that's unacceptable

The Romanians would have had time stamped video. Even if it was recorded on time, that can be disproven

[Anonymous]

It’s the figure skating scandal again. Crooked judges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bumping this because breakdancing happened. I was open to it but wow I cringed the whole time. What are the odds they pull it before the next Olympics?

It was so cringe. Not anywhere near a sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bumping this because breakdancing happened. I was open to it but wow I cringed the whole time. What are the odds they pull it before the next Olympics?

It’s already been determined that break dancing will not be in the next Olympics.

Keep up.

No need to be TA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's already been mentioned, but wow, there are so many truly beautiful athletes competing. Just watched Anna Hall in the pentathlon. She's stunning!

The US T&F team is gorgeous. And, of course, awesome!

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s the figure skating scandal again. Crooked judges.

If the judging was accurate, a Romanian wins.

If you go by the letter go the rule, a Romanian wins.

Childes only wins if her late appeal is accepted and Sabrina’s inbounds out of bounds is called incorrectly. If the letter do the law is upheld, childes appeal is too late. If you go with the gymnast who won it on the floor, Sabrina wins

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s the figure skating scandal again. Crooked judges.

+1 An overhaul is needed.