Madison H.S. Parents - Principal Survey and Skills-Based Grading

[Anonymous]

^ If your high performing kid knows the material, their grade won't go down. My kid's grades have not shifted at all since this began

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ If your high performing kid knows the material, their grade won't go down. My kid's grades have not shifted at all since this began

My high performing kid’s grade didn’t go down. DC said less learning occurred; kids talked to each other or looked at phones and failed quizzes because work didn’t count. It’s not just about the grades. Many other parents have told me their kids said the same thing.

[Anonymous]

PP - actually grades did go down 2nd and 3rd quarter and made no sense. Grades no longer provided feedback about anything at that point, just confusing. 4th quarter was here is your good grade back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s terrible.

It’s terrible it applies to almost no FCPS schools.

It’s terrible that it was implemented with no input from parents or students beforehand.

It’s terrible that the school system will not address whether grades for many kids will go down, except for the lowest performing kids.

The videos referenced by the principal state it’s to help kids who can’t do their homework. How many kids are like that at this high school?

NO one can say this is great…because it hasn’t started yet.

Well said.

[Anonymous]

They did a trial this year. It didn't go well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ If your high performing kid knows the material, their grade won't go down. My kid's grades have not shifted at all since this began

My high performing kid’s grade didn’t go down. DC said less learning occurred; kids talked to each other or looked at phones and failed quizzes because work didn’t count. It’s not just about the grades. Many other parents have told me their kids said the same thing.

Why don't you worry more about YOUR kid who seems to only be able to learn through OTHER kids' efforts. Focus more on getting your own house in order and worry less about other people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ If your high performing kid knows the material, their grade won't go down. My kid's grades have not shifted at all since this began

My high performing kid’s grade didn’t go down. DC said less learning occurred; kids talked to each other or looked at phones and failed quizzes because work didn’t count. It’s not just about the grades. Many other parents have told me their kids said the same thing.

Why don't you worry more about YOUR kid who seems to only be able to learn through OTHER kids' efforts. Focus more on getting your own house in order and worry less about other people.

DP. That's not what a school community means. FYI

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The discussion has been good with the exception of one person committing a logical fallacy: Ad Hominem. I notice that proponents of SBG don't have much to back up what they are saying, and they can't answer specific questions: "I'll get to that" or "to answer the question..." but what follows is not an answer just a word salad to burn the clock. The anonymous poster goes a step further calling us crazy and stupid, says she personally doesn't care either way, yet seems to have a vested interest.

The poster that has called us "morons," "chicken littles" and "crazy," and has said not to worry about our kids' education because her kid said he's doing just fine. She's not worried about anyone else. It's just a grading system.

We've pointed out specific reasons for concern: 1) SBG may demotivate students and lead them to procrastinate and learn later. 2)SBG may unfairly impact high-achieving students and devalue their hard work 3) SBG appears to impact students' mental health leading to frustration and anxiety 4) SBG may hide the achievement gap and result in passing on students thus robbing them of the education they deserve 5)SBG as a grading system may not motivate anyone to try their best

This next SB election is very important.

Or...

SBG MAY encourage students to take ownership of their own learning process.
SBG MAY have NO impact on consistently high performing kids b/c they will still consistently get high marks and learn much.
SBG MAY improve student mental health by de-emphasizing the importance of grading and re-emphasizing the importance of engaging in learning (regardless of the grade given, if any).
SBG MAY encourage students on the verge of failing or actually in a failing situation to continue to try and continue to learn because trends of improvement will be rewarded with bonus points on the previous grade (the bump up for one previous grade when there is an improved assessment thereafter).
SBG MAY encourage some to try more than they already have, allow others to put their efforts on what they prioritize, including allowing those for whom grades are the highest priority to continue to get top grades.

[Anonymous]

You learned so much from the video.

[Anonymous]

SBG MAY encourage students to take ownership of their own learning process. - how would this even happen? They can't even see what skills are being assessed when they take assessments. Homework doesn't count and grades can be revised with no additional work. Tests aren't something that kids can spend a lot of time going over and doing work on. How would they have more time and ownership to review their work by only having tests graded? The work they do themselves they take more ownership of because they create it. Tests are created and given by a teacher. Grades only related to tests show less ownership from the student. They also reduce creativity and "deep learning" in the class.

SBG MAY have NO impact on consistently high performing kids b/c they will still consistently get high marks and learn much. - There are less assessments which often leads to lower grades. You can see this in college as well. How many people in college have over a 4.0? Also, once you are at a B, there is only one more letter grade you can go especially because this stupid grading system only uses whole letter grades. So it's very difficult to work up from a B to an A. Less A's as a result. And then you have to do them in the right order in order for you grade to go up. It makes no sense. Most students cannot keep track of this much detail. Assessments are listed as skills. When you take a test there is no section that says now you are being questioned on skill 2. It doesn't work like this.

SBG MAY improve student mental health by de-emphasizing the importance of grading and re-emphasizing the importance of engaging in learning (regardless of the grade given, if any). It does the opposite. With less assessments there is less reason to be engaged till right before a test and then there is more stress on the assessment. Also back to the above, there is not an easy way to track what skills are being assesssed and how it relates to your previous skill grades.

SBG MAY encourage students on the verge of failing or actually in a failing situation to continue to try and continue to learn because trends of improvement will be rewarded with bonus points on the previous grade (the bump up for one previous grade when there is an improved assessment thereafter). They can do a retake. FCPS has a policy on retakes already. This was available before. Why would we want them to just get a better grade from before verses actually learning the material and then retaking the test? You'd rather them just get a higher grade for not doing anything and somehow this is supposed to be beneficial to their learning?

SBG MAY encourage some to try more than they already have, allow others to put their efforts on what they prioritize, including allowing those for whom grades are the highest priority to continue to get top grades. There were already percentages related to small assignments verses larger assignments. Some teachers would give full credit for any work done at home as long as it was completed. Some assignments were practice and worth less than the summatives. This was already in place. Also the whole letter grades make it very difficult to motive a kid because there is such a difference from one grade to the next. Final grades have minuses and pluses? Why do away with this for individual assessments when it's already part of the grading system and the final grade?

Overwhelmingly the studies have shown that this grading requires more time for the teacher even though it is less assessments. They have to create two systems to track work done and often have to divide out which assessments fit each skill in percentages which takes a lot of time. It is less accurate for the student with only whole letter grades and fewer grades overall, requires more work on the student to check grades because they have to check skills as well as grades, and demotivates the student to do work in-between assessments. This is clearly an FCPS objective and not one requested by the parents or students. All Madison parents and students are asking for is the status quo before this SBG was started.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ If your high performing kid knows the material, their grade won't go down. My kid's grades have not shifted at all since this began

My high performing kid’s grade didn’t go down. DC said less learning occurred; kids talked to each other or looked at phones and failed quizzes because work didn’t count. It’s not just about the grades. Many other parents have told me their kids said the same thing.

The new grading policy starts in the fall. sBG won’t be new but the grading policy is new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ If your high performing kid knows the material, their grade won't go down. My kid's grades have not shifted at all since this began

My high performing kid’s grade didn’t go down. DC said less learning occurred; kids talked to each other or looked at phones and failed quizzes because work didn’t count. It’s not just about the grades. Many other parents have told me their kids said the same thing.

The new grading policy starts in the fall. sBG won’t be new but the grading policy is new.

It started this year for several classes. Agreed. Kids are not paying attention as well in class because the work doesn't count. They are also unprepared for class because they didn't do the work in preparation for school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SBG MAY encourage students to take ownership of their own learning process. - how would this even happen? They can't even see what skills are being assessed when they take assessments. Homework doesn't count and grades can be revised with no additional work. Tests aren't something that kids can spend a lot of time going over and doing work on. How would they have more time and ownership to review their work by only having tests graded? The work they do themselves they take more ownership of because they create it. Tests are created and given by a teacher. Grades only related to tests show less ownership from the student. They also reduce creativity and "deep learning" in the class.

SBG MAY have NO impact on consistently high performing kids b/c they will still consistently get high marks and learn much. - There are less assessments which often leads to lower grades. You can see this in college as well. How many people in college have over a 4.0? Also, once you are at a B, there is only one more letter grade you can go especially because this stupid grading system only uses whole letter grades. So it's very difficult to work up from a B to an A. Less A's as a result. And then you have to do them in the right order in order for you grade to go up. It makes no sense. Most students cannot keep track of this much detail. Assessments are listed as skills. When you take a test there is no section that says now you are being questioned on skill 2. It doesn't work like this.

SBG MAY improve student mental health by de-emphasizing the importance of grading and re-emphasizing the importance of engaging in learning (regardless of the grade given, if any). It does the opposite. With less assessments there is less reason to be engaged till right before a test and then there is more stress on the assessment. Also back to the above, there is not an easy way to track what skills are being assesssed and how it relates to your previous skill grades.

SBG MAY encourage students on the verge of failing or actually in a failing situation to continue to try and continue to learn because trends of improvement will be rewarded with bonus points on the previous grade (the bump up for one previous grade when there is an improved assessment thereafter). They can do a retake. FCPS has a policy on retakes already. This was available before. Why would we want them to just get a better grade from before verses actually learning the material and then retaking the test? You'd rather them just get a higher grade for not doing anything and somehow this is supposed to be beneficial to their learning?

SBG MAY encourage some to try more than they already have, allow others to put their efforts on what they prioritize, including allowing those for whom grades are the highest priority to continue to get top grades. There were already percentages related to small assignments verses larger assignments. Some teachers would give full credit for any work done at home as long as it was completed. Some assignments were practice and worth less than the summatives. This was already in place. Also the whole letter grades make it very difficult to motive a kid because there is such a difference from one grade to the next. Final grades have minuses and pluses? Why do away with this for individual assessments when it's already part of the grading system and the final grade?

Overwhelmingly the studies have shown that this grading requires more time for the teacher even though it is less assessments. They have to create two systems to track work done and often have to divide out which assessments fit each skill in percentages which takes a lot of time. It is less accurate for the student with only whole letter grades and fewer grades overall, requires more work on the student to check grades because they have to check skills as well as grades, and demotivates the student to do work in-between assessments. This is clearly an FCPS objective and not one requested by the parents or students. All Madison parents and students are asking for is the status quo before this SBG was started.

You clearly have your mind made up and you are not open to considering that you don't know everything about implementation, rules, etc. So, go ahead and be mad and frustrated and run at the windmill. I'm living a happier life 'cause I choose to see the possibilities, and I choose which battles are important enough to fight. In my opinion (and others), this is just Not That Big of a Deal. It does not warrant this level of reaction. Who knows... you might get your way. That's pretty typical at... the loudest voices of the well-connected, entitled parents brow-beat the admin into submission.

Yes, you trotted out your daughter to present her angst at the PTA mtg. The horrors of SBG!!! Life is over!

Have a little perspective. Your high performing kid is going to keep her high GPA and get into a selective college and do very well with the best internships, etc., etc. SBG isn't ruining anyone's life and it might give a small group of kids a boost. Grades aren't the only thing that matter. Strivers are still going to be at the top of the heap.

[Anonymous]

You are disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Yes, you trotted out your daughter to present her angst at the PTA mtg. The horrors of SBG!!! Life is over!

I'm not the poster you are are talking to, but you are out of line and inappropriate. If you represent someone for SBG, I can see why so many are against it.