What is the real reason MCPS uses Lottery for Middle School Magnet Program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not clear at all. Lottery is just the final step. We need to know what criteria they use to put the kids in the lottery pool. Do they even consider academic performance? What is the cutoff percentile? or Are they just look at the race of the students? Are there any quotas being set for specific race to be included in the lottery pool? There are so many questions that we do not know answers to. It also appears that you are very clear on the process. Can you enlighten us parents with your wisdom?

I think the lottery is a terrible strategy, but they've answered many of these questions in the past.

Yes, they consider report cards. For CES and Humanities, they need to see As in the previous year's report cards in ELA. For TPMS, they want As in Math.

The cut-off percentile for MAP is 85th percentile.

They do not consider race.

Right. We all got all that. So how does the FARMS status or IEP/504 factor in? Do those students get into the pool with different grades or MAP scores? If they don’t, how is that status being factored in with the lottery?

MAP scores are locally normed, so it is 85th percentile of students within each "tier" of schools.

This is conjecture. MCPS has have never confirmed what “local norming” means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I completely agree with the three PP's. The reality is that parents want a differentiated MS curriculum (and looking at MCPS math and reading scores, looks like the MS curriculum is not good). Why is all the energy around tinkering with a magnet program (for advanced learners)? Anybody have insights on that. Why not improve academic opportunities at the homeschool level?

Maybe trying to undermine magnet problems and show that they are working for equity is an MCPS smokescreen to hide the real problems. Look at the numbers here. Where does all the billions pf MCPS funding go for god's sake? If they are producing such results. Only 33% passed MCAP Math in spring 2019 and 15% now. Abysmal.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/education/bs-md-maryland-test-scores-20211208-wk5aen5r5bfx5eag2p57pamjcy-story.html

The first Maryland standardized tests given since the beginning of the pandemic show a dramatic drop in student achievement, mirroring a nationwide trend of academic loss, according to preliminary data released by the state education department Tuesday.

Just 15% of the state’s public school students passed math and 35% passed English, the greatest single-year declines on any state tests given in at least the past two decades in Maryland.

The standardized tests, known as the Maryland Comprehensive Assessment Program, are considered difficult to pass. More than half of the state’s public school students regularly fail the tests — given in math and English in grades three through eight and in some high school subjects — in years before the pandemic.

However, the pass rate for math fell by more than half from the 33% who passed in the spring of 2019, the last time the test was given. English scores were down by about 8 percentage points since testing before the pandemic.

You do know that MCPS is not Maryland, right?
These numbers are for the state.
My God

Those were scary numbers if it were for MCPS considering the ROI

These are scary numbers for Maryland (even if not MCPS).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not clear at all. Lottery is just the final step. We need to know what criteria they use to put the kids in the lottery pool. Do they even consider academic performance? What is the cutoff percentile? or Are they just look at the race of the students? Are there any quotas being set for specific race to be included in the lottery pool? There are so many questions that we do not know answers to. It also appears that you are very clear on the process. Can you enlighten us parents with your wisdom?

I think the lottery is a terrible strategy, but they've answered many of these questions in the past.

Yes, they consider report cards. For CES and Humanities, they need to see As in the previous year's report cards in ELA. For TPMS, they want As in Math.

The cut-off percentile for MAP is 85th percentile.

They do not consider race.

Right. We all got all that. So how does the FARMS status or IEP/504 factor in? Do those students get into the pool with different grades or MAP scores? If they don’t, how is that status being factored in with the lottery?

MAP scores are locally normed, so it is 85th percentile of students within each "tier" of schools.

This is conjecture. MCPS has have never confirmed what “local norming” means.

It's implicit, but if you're going to nitpick every detail to cry foul sure we can't be sure what any works mean...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not clear at all. Lottery is just the final step. We need to know what criteria they use to put the kids in the lottery pool. Do they even consider academic performance? What is the cutoff percentile? or Are they just look at the race of the students? Are there any quotas being set for specific race to be included in the lottery pool? There are so many questions that we do not know answers to. It also appears that you are very clear on the process. Can you enlighten us parents with your wisdom?

I think the lottery is a terrible strategy, but they've answered many of these questions in the past.

Yes, they consider report cards. For CES and Humanities, they need to see As in the previous year's report cards in ELA. For TPMS, they want As in Math.

The cut-off percentile for MAP is 85th percentile.

They do not consider race.

Right. We all got all that. So how does the FARMS status or IEP/504 factor in? Do those students get into the pool with different grades or MAP scores? If they don’t, how is that status being factored in with the lottery?

MAP scores are locally normed, so it is 85th percentile of students within each "tier" of schools.

This is conjecture. MCPS has have never confirmed what “local norming” means.

It's implicit, but if you're going to nitpick every detail to cry foul sure we can't be sure what any works mean...

It is not implicit, nor should it be implicit. Is it by tier (title 1, focus, etc.), is it by high school cluster, is it by individual school, by individual student? No one is necessarily trying to “cry foul” here. It is understandable that if students are treated equitably rather than identically, that there would be a clear idea of what “local norming” actually is according to those implementing the new system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not clear at all. Lottery is just the final step. We need to know what criteria they use to put the kids in the lottery pool. Do they even consider academic performance? What is the cutoff percentile? or Are they just look at the race of the students? Are there any quotas being set for specific race to be included in the lottery pool? There are so many questions that we do not know answers to. It also appears that you are very clear on the process. Can you enlighten us parents with your wisdom?

I think the lottery is a terrible strategy, but they've answered many of these questions in the past.

Yes, they consider report cards. For CES and Humanities, they need to see As in the previous year's report cards in ELA. For TPMS, they want As in Math.

The cut-off percentile for MAP is 85th percentile.

They do not consider race.

Right. We all got all that. So how does the FARMS status or IEP/504 factor in? Do those students get into the pool with different grades or MAP scores? If they don’t, how is that status being factored in with the lottery?

MAP scores are locally normed, so it is 85th percentile of students within each "tier" of schools.

This is conjecture. MCPS has have never confirmed what “local norming” means.

It's implicit, but if you're going to nitpick every detail to cry foul sure we can't be sure what any works mean...

True, everyone with any sense understands the concept of local normong, but the crazies want to always split hairs. It wouldn't matter what MCPS said. It would never be enough for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not clear at all. Lottery is just the final step. We need to know what criteria they use to put the kids in the lottery pool. Do they even consider academic performance? What is the cutoff percentile? or Are they just look at the race of the students? Are there any quotas being set for specific race to be included in the lottery pool? There are so many questions that we do not know answers to. It also appears that you are very clear on the process. Can you enlighten us parents with your wisdom?

I think the lottery is a terrible strategy, but they've answered many of these questions in the past.

Yes, they consider report cards. For CES and Humanities, they need to see As in the previous year's report cards in ELA. For TPMS, they want As in Math.

The cut-off percentile for MAP is 85th percentile.

They do not consider race.

Right. We all got all that. So how does the FARMS status or IEP/504 factor in? Do those students get into the pool with different grades or MAP scores? If they don’t, how is that status being factored in with the lottery?

MAP scores are locally normed, so it is 85th percentile of students within each "tier" of schools.

This is conjecture. MCPS has have never confirmed what “local norming” means.

It's implicit, but if you're going to nitpick every detail to cry foul sure we can't be sure what any works mean...

True, everyone with any sense understands the concept of local normong, but the crazies want to always split hairs. It wouldn't matter what MCPS said. It would never be enough for them.

I actually don’t understand it because MCPS has never explained it. I don’t have a dog in this fight but I continually see people saying how MCPS has clearly explained everything and yet this is a critical piece of the criteria and they in fact have not explained it at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not clear at all. Lottery is just the final step. We need to know what criteria they use to put the kids in the lottery pool. Do they even consider academic performance? What is the cutoff percentile? or Are they just look at the race of the students? Are there any quotas being set for specific race to be included in the lottery pool? There are so many questions that we do not know answers to. It also appears that you are very clear on the process. Can you enlighten us parents with your wisdom?

I think the lottery is a terrible strategy, but they've answered many of these questions in the past.

Yes, they consider report cards. For CES and Humanities, they need to see As in the previous year's report cards in ELA. For TPMS, they want As in Math.

The cut-off percentile for MAP is 85th percentile.

They do not consider race.

Right. We all got all that. So how does the FARMS status or IEP/504 factor in? Do those students get into the pool with different grades or MAP scores? If they don’t, how is that status being factored in with the lottery?

MAP scores are locally normed, so it is 85th percentile of students within each "tier" of schools.

This is conjecture. MCPS has have never confirmed what “local norming” means.

It's implicit, but if you're going to nitpick every detail to cry foul sure we can't be sure what any works mean...

True, everyone with any sense understands the concept of local normong, but the crazies want to always split hairs. It wouldn't matter what MCPS said. It would never be enough for them.

I actually don’t understand it because MCPS has never explained it. I don’t have a dog in this fight but I continually see people saying how MCPS has clearly explained everything and yet this is a critical piece of the criteria and they in fact have not explained it at all.

Bump. Can anyone provide a credible reference explaining how MCPS conducts “local norning”?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not clear at all. Lottery is just the final step. We need to know what criteria they use to put the kids in the lottery pool. Do they even consider academic performance? What is the cutoff percentile? or Are they just look at the race of the students? Are there any quotas being set for specific race to be included in the lottery pool? There are so many questions that we do not know answers to. It also appears that you are very clear on the process. Can you enlighten us parents with your wisdom?

I think the lottery is a terrible strategy, but they've answered many of these questions in the past.

Yes, they consider report cards. For CES and Humanities, they need to see As in the previous year's report cards in ELA. For TPMS, they want As in Math.

The cut-off percentile for MAP is 85th percentile.

They do not consider race.

Right. We all got all that. So how does the FARMS status or IEP/504 factor in? Do those students get into the pool with different grades or MAP scores? If they don’t, how is that status being factored in with the lottery?

MAP scores are locally normed, so it is 85th percentile of students within each "tier" of schools.

This is conjecture. MCPS has have never confirmed what “local norming” means.

It's implicit, but if you're going to nitpick every detail to cry foul sure we can't be sure what any works mean...

True, everyone with any sense understands the concept of local normong, but the crazies want to always split hairs. It wouldn't matter what MCPS said. It would never be enough for them.

I actually don’t understand it because MCPS has never explained it. I don’t have a dog in this fight but I continually see people saying how MCPS has clearly explained everything and yet this is a critical piece of the criteria and they in fact have not explained it at all.

Bump. Can anyone provide a credible reference explaining how MCPS conducts “local norning”?

I think they just use a local norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This region has astronomically more qualified kids than seats.

Not quite.

MCPS deliberately chose to limit the size and scope of the Magnet program. They could very easily designate more CES classrooms at local schools, use that additional capacity to offload the 97% percentile and under, then use the Magnet slots for those that are truly 98-99th as pull-outs.

The question you should be asking is why they didn't do that.

because there is no way to make those assessments fairly during a pandemic when kids spent a year in virtual learning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It is not clear at all. Lottery is just the final step. We need to know what criteria they use to put the kids in the lottery pool. Do they even consider academic performance? What is the cutoff percentile? or Are they just look at the race of the students? Are there any quotas being set for specific race to be included in the lottery pool? There are so many questions that we do not know answers to. It also appears that you are very clear on the process. Can you enlighten us parents with your wisdom?

I think the lottery is a terrible strategy, but they've answered many of these questions in the past.

Yes, they consider report cards. For CES and Humanities, they need to see As in the previous year's report cards in ELA. For TPMS, they want As in Math.

The cut-off percentile for MAP is 85th percentile.

They do not consider race.

Right. We all got all that. So how does the FARMS status or IEP/504 factor in? Do those students get into the pool with different grades or MAP scores? If they don’t, how is that status being factored in with the lottery?

MAP scores are locally normed, so it is 85th percentile of students within each "tier" of schools.

This is conjecture. MCPS has have never confirmed what “local norming” means.

It's implicit, but if you're going to nitpick every detail to cry foul sure we can't be sure what any works mean...

True, everyone with any sense understands the concept of local normong, but the crazies want to always split hairs. It wouldn't matter what MCPS said. It would never be enough for them.

I actually don’t understand it because MCPS has never explained it. I don’t have a dog in this fight but I continually see people saying how MCPS has clearly explained everything and yet this is a critical piece of the criteria and they in fact have not explained it at all.

Information (withholding) is power!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

They should do the lottery like the Power Ball. Audited and right in front of cameras publically broadcasted, LOL. Otherwise, I guess they get to choose who gets in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

They should do the lottery like the Power Ball. Audited and right in front of cameras publically broadcasted, LOL. Otherwise, I guess they get to choose who gets in.

Not many people know this but when they are picking power-ball winners they're actually are picking students for these programs. That's why the power-ball numbers align perfectly with student IDs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

They should do the lottery like the Power Ball. Audited and right in front of cameras publically broadcasted, LOL. Otherwise, I guess they get to choose who gets in.

Not many people know this but when they are picking power-ball winners they're actually are picking students for these programs. That's why the power-ball numbers align perfectly with student IDs.

don’t go into comedy. you’ll starve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

They should do the lottery like the Power Ball. Audited and right in front of cameras publically broadcasted, LOL. Otherwise, I guess they get to choose who gets in.

And this is how you kill a great program...make it a lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know what is the real reason MCPS BOE uses lottery for CES program?
Why can't it be the consistency of performance against benchmarks in elementary school? and/or likewise consistency of performance in middle school for highschool magnet program

Are they using Lottery for selection into sports and games teams as well instead of performance benchmarks? or is the lottery exclusive for academic programs?

They should do the lottery like the Power Ball. Audited and right in front of cameras publically broadcasted, LOL. Otherwise, I guess they get to choose who gets in.

And this is how you kill a great program...make it a lottery.

It was already killing itself with unqualified cram school kids getting in.