Physicians Assistant yelling “HELP ME” while stealing a CitiBike ?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This has honestly turned into the dumbest story. Two people arguing over a bike, probably both in the wrong, and here we are almost 200 pages later arguing about it.

They both handled the bike dispute poorly, but only one of them filmed it and released it in the internet. Soooo … one of them was way worse.

You forgot that she was yelling "HELP ME HELP ME" as if she was in danger when it turns out she put herself in that position. Yea, the kid was being a dick by hoarding the bike and I would have been annoyed with him too, but she could have handled the interaction gracefully. They are both in the wrong.

I would feel threatened if someone shoved my bike into the dock and yelled lies at me about it being their bike.

So would I but now we have more information and this isn't what happened.

It’s exactly what happened. It’s what the video shows, the receipts substantiate, and what he said in *his own interview.*

There is only ONE fact actually in dispute here: whether (as he says) the boy was holding the bike and she “pushed” onto it despite him telling her he still wanted to rent it later; or whether (as she says) the bike was unattended.

Even if his version is true, that still does not support the false claims that she was “stealing” his bike and faking her distress to intentionally endanger him.

Unfortunately this episode has for me given the knowledge that actual racism/sexism exists against white women among some black people. The knee jerk reaction to a white person was to assume she is evil and intends harm; and moreover that white women are fundamentally evil. It is pretty disturbing.

Same here. The term Karen has concerned me as a racist, sexist, ageist trope for some time. What this incident shows is that it's become extremely easy to Karen a white woman for fun and leave it to grifters like Monique to platform it with racist dog whistles about tears etc, whip up the online pitchforks and mobs, and quickly ruin someone's life (because social media rewards this monetarily, in Monique's case). There's a large segment of the population, including the "ally" here, who won't even question it because, hey, white women are always and everywhere less than human.

I think the teens were just being teens and have no animus toward them, although I do think they were clearly in the wrong.

Nice try. That's not even near what any of us (and there are more than one of us) have said. White women are just very good at upholding white supremacy. No one is calling us less than human, we are just not falling for the 'mean black men innocent white girl' trope.

Nice try. Your response on this thread demonstrates without a doubt that you're falling back on the "mean white women innocent black men" trope. Own it.

Ally pp is also falling back on the "white women's tears" trope because there's no conceivable circumstance where a white woman being shoved around on a bike she's sitting on could actually need help. It's toxic.

The issue is you're stating that as if it's fact. As if she couldn't have done wrong before the video, like taken a bike they said they were using. No one is saying their behavior is "fine" - it's not, but the 'help me' bullshit was just dumb.

What’s “just dumb” is thinking that you can tell what someone is thinking and feeling based on a short video clip, particularly where there is one reasonable interpretation of the context that would support her reaction as genuine.

It is a well-known phenomenon that people can be bad at inferring emotion others are experiencing, and we often use our bias to make a biased interpretation. Anyone who can look at that video and conclude “she’s faking” uncritically is pretty ignorant.

+100. What this shows is that someone who buys into "all white women weaponize their tears in every situation," based on a video where they may have edited out the actual bike shoving, is going to think she was faking it. Which is pretty racist and sexist of them.

-- progressive woman

NP and unrelated to this incident but if you're progressive you should know that racism requires a power differential. We can't be racist against white women. Prejudiced, sure. Not racist.

DP. I agree you can't be racist against white women.

However, power differentials DO matter and that's why from the start a lot of us have been pointing out that the pregnant PA on her own was not in a position of power over the FIVE YOUNG MEN who were pushing her and harassing her. Those boys had more power than she did in that moment. And yet people are incredulous that she would call for help, and saying that the only possible explanation is that she was trying to get those guys harmed.

Like we sometimes need to be able to just see what is happening and describe it for what it is. People are doing backflips to turn this woman into the aggressor when she was outnumbered and we have video of the boys jeering her and pushing her.

The position of power has to do with being white. IF she had called the police, there was no way she'd have ended up dead. But they might have.

Since we’re indulging in hypotheticals, IF they decided to assault her based on her race or gender, there’s no way she could have escaped it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There is such a double standard at work here.

People keep saying "oh the boys behavior wasn't great but she could have just left." Like the fact that they were harassing her is viewed as NBD because, hey, you can always walk away.

But then the same people will say she was totally out of line for trying to rent a bike that was docked because it was "his" bike and she "impaled" herself on it. And at no point do these people say "well the boys could have just walked away from the bike."

Why is their bad behavior written off as avoidable ("just leave") but hers isn't?

Good question. I'm sorry that you're unlikely to get an answer.

Because they are children and she's an adult.

But people keep saying "why do white women always get the benefit of the doubt when these black kids don't." But you are demonstrating this isn't true.

Notably, the PA has said she has no interest in pursuing action agains the boys specifically because they are so young. So she's also giving them this pass for their bad behavior.

It's almost like white women are actually held to a higher standard than everyone else. They are the last to get the benefit of the doubt.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This has honestly turned into the dumbest story. Two people arguing over a bike, probably both in the wrong, and here we are almost 200 pages later arguing about it.

They both handled the bike dispute poorly, but only one of them filmed it and released it in the internet. Soooo … one of them was way worse.

You forgot that she was yelling "HELP ME HELP ME" as if she was in danger when it turns out she put herself in that position. Yea, the kid was being a dick by hoarding the bike and I would have been annoyed with him too, but she could have handled the interaction gracefully. They are both in the wrong.

I would feel threatened if someone shoved my bike into the dock and yelled lies at me about it being their bike.

So would I but now we have more information and this isn't what happened.

It’s exactly what happened. It’s what the video shows, the receipts substantiate, and what he said in *his own interview.*

There is only ONE fact actually in dispute here: whether (as he says) the boy was holding the bike and she “pushed” onto it despite him telling her he still wanted to rent it later; or whether (as she says) the bike was unattended.

Even if his version is true, that still does not support the false claims that she was “stealing” his bike and faking her distress to intentionally endanger him.

Unfortunately this episode has for me given the knowledge that actual racism/sexism exists against white women among some black people. The knee jerk reaction to a white person was to assume she is evil and intends harm; and moreover that white women are fundamentally evil. It is pretty disturbing.

Same here. The term Karen has concerned me as a racist, sexist, ageist trope for some time. What this incident shows is that it's become extremely easy to Karen a white woman for fun and leave it to grifters like Monique to platform it with racist dog whistles about tears etc, whip up the online pitchforks and mobs, and quickly ruin someone's life (because social media rewards this monetarily, in Monique's case). There's a large segment of the population, including the "ally" here, who won't even question it because, hey, white women are always and everywhere less than human.

I think the teens were just being teens and have no animus toward them, although I do think they were clearly in the wrong.

Nice try. That's not even near what any of us (and there are more than one of us) have said. White women are just very good at upholding white supremacy. No one is calling us less than human, we are just not falling for the 'mean black men innocent white girl' trope.

Nice try. Your response on this thread demonstrates without a doubt that you're falling back on the "mean white women innocent black men" trope. Own it.

Ally pp is also falling back on the "white women's tears" trope because there's no conceivable circumstance where a white woman being shoved around on a bike she's sitting on could actually need help. It's toxic.

The issue is you're stating that as if it's fact. As if she couldn't have done wrong before the video, like taken a bike they said they were using. No one is saying their behavior is "fine" - it's not, but the 'help me' bullshit was just dumb.

What’s “just dumb” is thinking that you can tell what someone is thinking and feeling based on a short video clip, particularly where there is one reasonable interpretation of the context that would support her reaction as genuine.

It is a well-known phenomenon that people can be bad at inferring emotion others are experiencing, and we often use our bias to make a biased interpretation. Anyone who can look at that video and conclude “she’s faking” uncritically is pretty ignorant.

+100. What this shows is that someone who buys into "all white women weaponize their tears in every situation," based on a video where they may have edited out the actual bike shoving, is going to think she was faking it. Which is pretty racist and sexist of them.

-- progressive woman

NP and unrelated to this incident but if you're progressive you should know that racism requires a power differential. We can't be racist against white women. Prejudiced, sure. Not racist.

DP. I agree you can't be racist against white women.

However, power differentials DO matter and that's why from the start a lot of us have been pointing out that the pregnant PA on her own was not in a position of power over the FIVE YOUNG MEN who were pushing her and harassing her. Those boys had more power than she did in that moment. And yet people are incredulous that she would call for help, and saying that the only possible explanation is that she was trying to get those guys harmed.

Like we sometimes need to be able to just see what is happening and describe it for what it is. People are doing backflips to turn this woman into the aggressor when she was outnumbered and we have video of the boys jeering her and pushing her.

The position of power has to do with being white. IF she had called the police, there was no way she'd have ended up dead. But they might have.

But she didn't call the police. Which makes your hypothetical "IF" irrelevant.

We come back to: this was a single, pregnant, tired (white) woman trying to rent an unrented bike and surrounded by four-five large teens. And it's entirely conceivable she or her baby could have been harmed by four males of ANY color. The power deferential certainly favored them not her.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This has honestly turned into the dumbest story. Two people arguing over a bike, probably both in the wrong, and here we are almost 200 pages later arguing about it.

They both handled the bike dispute poorly, but only one of them filmed it and released it in the internet. Soooo … one of them was way worse.

You forgot that she was yelling "HELP ME HELP ME" as if she was in danger when it turns out she put herself in that position. Yea, the kid was being a dick by hoarding the bike and I would have been annoyed with him too, but she could have handled the interaction gracefully. They are both in the wrong.

I would feel threatened if someone shoved my bike into the dock and yelled lies at me about it being their bike.

So would I but now we have more information and this isn't what happened.

It’s exactly what happened. It’s what the video shows, the receipts substantiate, and what he said in *his own interview.*

There is only ONE fact actually in dispute here: whether (as he says) the boy was holding the bike and she “pushed” onto it despite him telling her he still wanted to rent it later; or whether (as she says) the bike was unattended.

Even if his version is true, that still does not support the false claims that she was “stealing” his bike and faking her distress to intentionally endanger him.

Unfortunately this episode has for me given the knowledge that actual racism/sexism exists against white women among some black people. The knee jerk reaction to a white person was to assume she is evil and intends harm; and moreover that white women are fundamentally evil. It is pretty disturbing.

Same here. The term Karen has concerned me as a racist, sexist, ageist trope for some time. What this incident shows is that it's become extremely easy to Karen a white woman for fun and leave it to grifters like Monique to platform it with racist dog whistles about tears etc, whip up the online pitchforks and mobs, and quickly ruin someone's life (because social media rewards this monetarily, in Monique's case). There's a large segment of the population, including the "ally" here, who won't even question it because, hey, white women are always and everywhere less than human.

I think the teens were just being teens and have no animus toward them, although I do think they were clearly in the wrong.

Nice try. That's not even near what any of us (and there are more than one of us) have said. White women are just very good at upholding white supremacy. No one is calling us less than human, we are just not falling for the 'mean black men innocent white girl' trope.

Nice try. Your response on this thread demonstrates without a doubt that you're falling back on the "mean white women innocent black men" trope. Own it.

Ally pp is also falling back on the "white women's tears" trope because there's no conceivable circumstance where a white woman being shoved around on a bike she's sitting on could actually need help. It's toxic.

The issue is you're stating that as if it's fact. As if she couldn't have done wrong before the video, like taken a bike they said they were using. No one is saying their behavior is "fine" - it's not, but the 'help me' bullshit was just dumb.

What’s “just dumb” is thinking that you can tell what someone is thinking and feeling based on a short video clip, particularly where there is one reasonable interpretation of the context that would support her reaction as genuine.

It is a well-known phenomenon that people can be bad at inferring emotion others are experiencing, and we often use our bias to make a biased interpretation. Anyone who can look at that video and conclude “she’s faking” uncritically is pretty ignorant.

+100. What this shows is that someone who buys into "all white women weaponize their tears in every situation," based on a video where they may have edited out the actual bike shoving, is going to think she was faking it. Which is pretty racist and sexist of them.

-- progressive woman

NP and unrelated to this incident but if you're progressive you should know that racism requires a power differential. We can't be racist against white women. Prejudiced, sure. Not racist.

DP. I agree you can't be racist against white women.

However, power differentials DO matter and that's why from the start a lot of us have been pointing out that the pregnant PA on her own was not in a position of power over the FIVE YOUNG MEN who were pushing her and harassing her. Those boys had more power than she did in that moment. And yet people are incredulous that she would call for help, and saying that the only possible explanation is that she was trying to get those guys harmed.

Like we sometimes need to be able to just see what is happening and describe it for what it is. People are doing backflips to turn this woman into the aggressor when she was outnumbered and we have video of the boys jeering her and pushing her.

The position of power has to do with being white. IF she had called the police, there was no way she'd have ended up dead. But they might have.

Since we’re indulging in hypotheticals, IF they decided to assault her based on her race or gender, there’s no way she could have escaped it.

Exactly. And it doesn't even matter why they might assault her. If five people decide they want to physically harm one smaller person, they can.

There is more than one source of power. The PA is not Superman.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This has honestly turned into the dumbest story. Two people arguing over a bike, probably both in the wrong, and here we are almost 200 pages later arguing about it.

They both handled the bike dispute poorly, but only one of them filmed it and released it in the internet. Soooo … one of them was way worse.

You forgot that she was yelling "HELP ME HELP ME" as if she was in danger when it turns out she put herself in that position. Yea, the kid was being a dick by hoarding the bike and I would have been annoyed with him too, but she could have handled the interaction gracefully. They are both in the wrong.

I would feel threatened if someone shoved my bike into the dock and yelled lies at me about it being their bike.

So would I but now we have more information and this isn't what happened.

It’s exactly what happened. It’s what the video shows, the receipts substantiate, and what he said in *his own interview.*

There is only ONE fact actually in dispute here: whether (as he says) the boy was holding the bike and she “pushed” onto it despite him telling her he still wanted to rent it later; or whether (as she says) the bike was unattended.

Even if his version is true, that still does not support the false claims that she was “stealing” his bike and faking her distress to intentionally endanger him.

Unfortunately this episode has for me given the knowledge that actual racism/sexism exists against white women among some black people. The knee jerk reaction to a white person was to assume she is evil and intends harm; and moreover that white women are fundamentally evil. It is pretty disturbing.

Same here. The term Karen has concerned me as a racist, sexist, ageist trope for some time. What this incident shows is that it's become extremely easy to Karen a white woman for fun and leave it to grifters like Monique to platform it with racist dog whistles about tears etc, whip up the online pitchforks and mobs, and quickly ruin someone's life (because social media rewards this monetarily, in Monique's case). There's a large segment of the population, including the "ally" here, who won't even question it because, hey, white women are always and everywhere less than human.

I think the teens were just being teens and have no animus toward them, although I do think they were clearly in the wrong.

Nice try. That's not even near what any of us (and there are more than one of us) have said. White women are just very good at upholding white supremacy. No one is calling us less than human, we are just not falling for the 'mean black men innocent white girl' trope.

Nice try. Your response on this thread demonstrates without a doubt that you're falling back on the "mean white women innocent black men" trope. Own it.

Ally pp is also falling back on the "white women's tears" trope because there's no conceivable circumstance where a white woman being shoved around on a bike she's sitting on could actually need help. It's toxic.

The issue is you're stating that as if it's fact. As if she couldn't have done wrong before the video, like taken a bike they said they were using. No one is saying their behavior is "fine" - it's not, but the 'help me' bullshit was just dumb.

What’s “just dumb” is thinking that you can tell what someone is thinking and feeling based on a short video clip, particularly where there is one reasonable interpretation of the context that would support her reaction as genuine.

It is a well-known phenomenon that people can be bad at inferring emotion others are experiencing, and we often use our bias to make a biased interpretation. Anyone who can look at that video and conclude “she’s faking” uncritically is pretty ignorant.

+100. What this shows is that someone who buys into "all white women weaponize their tears in every situation," based on a video where they may have edited out the actual bike shoving, is going to think she was faking it. Which is pretty racist and sexist of them.

-- progressive woman

NP and unrelated to this incident but if you're progressive you should know that racism requires a power differential. We can't be racist against white women. Prejudiced, sure. Not racist.

DP. I agree you can't be racist against white women.

However, power differentials DO matter and that's why from the start a lot of us have been pointing out that the pregnant PA on her own was not in a position of power over the FIVE YOUNG MEN who were pushing her and harassing her. Those boys had more power than she did in that moment. And yet people are incredulous that she would call for help, and saying that the only possible explanation is that she was trying to get those guys harmed.

Like we sometimes need to be able to just see what is happening and describe it for what it is. People are doing backflips to turn this woman into the aggressor when she was outnumbered and we have video of the boys jeering her and pushing her.

The position of power has to do with being white. IF she had called the police, there was no way she'd have ended up dead. But they might have.

Since we’re indulging in hypotheticals, IF they decided to assault her based on her race or gender, there’s no way she could have escaped it.

Exactly. And it doesn't even matter why they might assault her. If five people decide they want to physically harm one smaller person, they can.

There is more than one source of power. The PA is not Superman.

+2. And she didn't call the police or dial 911. So pp needs to stop arguing she was weaponizing her race or her tears.

[Anonymous]

This was a dispute over who got to ride a bike. It wasn't racial.

The only people weaponizing "white women's tears" were Monique, Crum, ThatDaneshGuy, TizzyEnt, and other social media types who used the trope to make it go viral, whip up their online mobs to ruin her reputation, and beef up their views and clicks.

They also weaponized the term Karen.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This has honestly turned into the dumbest story. Two people arguing over a bike, probably both in the wrong, and here we are almost 200 pages later arguing about it.

They both handled the bike dispute poorly, but only one of them filmed it and released it in the internet. Soooo … one of them was way worse.

You forgot that she was yelling "HELP ME HELP ME" as if she was in danger when it turns out she put herself in that position. Yea, the kid was being a dick by hoarding the bike and I would have been annoyed with him too, but she could have handled the interaction gracefully. They are both in the wrong.

I would feel threatened if someone shoved my bike into the dock and yelled lies at me about it being their bike.

So would I but now we have more information and this isn't what happened.

It’s exactly what happened. It’s what the video shows, the receipts substantiate, and what he said in *his own interview.*

There is only ONE fact actually in dispute here: whether (as he says) the boy was holding the bike and she “pushed” onto it despite him telling her he still wanted to rent it later; or whether (as she says) the bike was unattended.

Even if his version is true, that still does not support the false claims that she was “stealing” his bike and faking her distress to intentionally endanger him.

Unfortunately this episode has for me given the knowledge that actual racism/sexism exists against white women among some black people. The knee jerk reaction to a white person was to assume she is evil and intends harm; and moreover that white women are fundamentally evil. It is pretty disturbing.

Same here. The term Karen has concerned me as a racist, sexist, ageist trope for some time. What this incident shows is that it's become extremely easy to Karen a white woman for fun and leave it to grifters like Monique to platform it with racist dog whistles about tears etc, whip up the online pitchforks and mobs, and quickly ruin someone's life (because social media rewards this monetarily, in Monique's case). There's a large segment of the population, including the "ally" here, who won't even question it because, hey, white women are always and everywhere less than human.

I think the teens were just being teens and have no animus toward them, although I do think they were clearly in the wrong.

Nice try. That's not even near what any of us (and there are more than one of us) have said. White women are just very good at upholding white supremacy. No one is calling us less than human, we are just not falling for the 'mean black men innocent white girl' trope.

Nice try. Your response on this thread demonstrates without a doubt that you're falling back on the "mean white women innocent black men" trope. Own it.

Ally pp is also falling back on the "white women's tears" trope because there's no conceivable circumstance where a white woman being shoved around on a bike she's sitting on could actually need help. It's toxic.

The issue is you're stating that as if it's fact. As if she couldn't have done wrong before the video, like taken a bike they said they were using. No one is saying their behavior is "fine" - it's not, but the 'help me' bullshit was just dumb.

What’s “just dumb” is thinking that you can tell what someone is thinking and feeling based on a short video clip, particularly where there is one reasonable interpretation of the context that would support her reaction as genuine.

It is a well-known phenomenon that people can be bad at inferring emotion others are experiencing, and we often use our bias to make a biased interpretation. Anyone who can look at that video and conclude “she’s faking” uncritically is pretty ignorant.

+100. What this shows is that someone who buys into "all white women weaponize their tears in every situation," based on a video where they may have edited out the actual bike shoving, is going to think she was faking it. Which is pretty racist and sexist of them.

-- progressive woman

NP and unrelated to this incident but if you're progressive you should know that racism requires a power differential. We can't be racist against white women. Prejudiced, sure. Not racist.

Prejudiced is racist.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Also the whole “WhItE TeArS” thing is so gross to me. It’s NYC, 2023. The police don’t give a single solitary F about 2 people bickering over a rental bike. The police in any major city wouldn’t get involved. They don’t get involved when people are assaulted on public transit and when people are openly using and selling drugs and running out of stores with bags full of stolen merchandise - why would they, presumably, beat up someone over a disputed rental bike? These people want to be victims sooooo bad.

And yet eric garner died selling single cigarettes. "These people" ? You're disgusting. Police can and do overreact (yes, even in NYC) ALL THE TIME. They wouldn't be reacting to the BIKE, they'd be reacting to the "poor delicate overworked white lady" who "rightfully got" the bike. Please.

Are you actually mocking a visibly pregnant woman who's just come off a 12-hour shift as a "poor delicate overworked white lady"? You can't have children of your own.

And how, exactly, is her "whiteness" relevant? You added that to racialize it. You're gross.

NO I was mocking the PP who called her overworked.

But OF COURSE IT'S RACIALIZED. Me mentioning her race didn't make it so. It EXISTS. White women cry and get black men killed.

And there it is. ANY white woman who cries in public--even after coming off a 12-hour shift while pregnant just to be mocked by a gang of guys hoarding the last e-bike--must be trying to get black men killed. There was no acceptable response for her, only to quietly back down and either take one of the non-electric bikes or walk home.

Do you know what I think you are?

It was not a "gang of guys" --- nice dog whistle, by the way. It was a couple of KIDS. And YES - of course the acceptable adult response would be to take a non electric bike. Why is it the children who are supposed to be more mature than the adult? Because you all baby white woman and vilify black children, calling them a gang.

TF. Are you listening to yourself? He's 17 about to graduate from high school, so he's almost 18. Not a "child" by anyone's definition. He's been scamming Citibike all day, including hoarding this bike for 50 minutes at the same station without actually using it himself and abusing the Angel Bikes program. He and his friends loudly mock the PA and called her baby r****d. He and his friends filmed her and put the video online.

And you think he's a poor widdle child with zero agency. And that the pregnant woman should take the regular bike--have you ever been pregnant?

White boys who are 17 are ROUTINELY called boys while black kids are held to a different standard. And while they may have been behaving immaturely, that doesn't make it ok for an adult to cry and call the cops because they were mean to her.

And yes, I have been a tired pregnant white woman three times but it never occurred to me to cry and call the police on children who were acting dumb. But then, I am not a racist.

These are young men who are graduating high school right now. They are old enough to be held accountable for their behavior, just like anyone else. She was surrounded by multiple men blocking her from leaving. What would YOU do if you were in that situation? She did not know if they were harmless or not (on the video they appeared to be but from her viewpoint at that moment she felt threatened). Help me is the appropriate response to it. She should just do what?

You even bother to ask? PP was responding to me asking the exact same question. Her response was "they are just children and she should take the regular bike." Gross.

- a progressive

They aren't children if they graduated high school. You cannot say they are kids for one situation and men for another.

Either way, they should come out and apologize for their actions, she should apologize for hers and be done with it. This has nothing to do with race. The men behaved very poorly and should know better than to gang up on a pregnant woman but if they said they were using it, even though they were in the wrong, you don't just take the bike either.

I see so many referring to them as men. Just a few weeks ago the headlines about the rock throwing incident referred to the people who murdered someone as teens.
(3 Colorado Teens Charged With Murder in Fatal Rock-Throwing Incident) I was shocked to see they were 18. Meanwhile, these teen boys are men.

https://www.npr.org/2014/03/19/291405871/consequences-when-african-american-boys-are-seen-as-older

Nobody knew how old they were until the interview came out yesterday. When this video first came out it was unclear if they were minors or not. To me it seemed like immature behavior so I guessed from 17-20 but wouldn’t have been surprised at 22-23. So I called them “boys”
to give them the benefit of the doubt - but then was told thay was racist - and now am told “men” is also racist. 🤷‍♀️

This is the kind of cr*p that rightfully gets labeled woketastic.

Everyone younger than the age of majority counts as a kid, sorry folks.

So my son is a "child" at 17 years and 11 months for the purposes of moral accountability for anything he does? Good to know. Although I won't be telling my son, because I still believe 17-year-olds are morally responsible for their actions.

Yes, your 17-year-old counts as a child. Not in terms of “moral accountability”, but in terms of legal age, which is what we are discussing. And if your imaginary 17-year-old white son had done something wrong, you’d be calling him a child and you know it, so cut the crap.

No we're not discussing legal liability, because, as you know very well, her lawyer has said she's not going to sue the boys. So cut the crap yourself.

I have a white son. And I'd absolutely hold him morally accountable for not giving a bike to a pregnant woman, mocking her, filming her, and physically shoving around a bike with her on it. I sure hope this teen's mom is giving him sh!t too, although I can understand why she'd not want to do it publicly.

Yes, I know…as I said, we’re discussing legal age. Specifically, calling a 17-year-old a boy instead of a man. A minor is a child. You know this.

He should turn 18 very soon and just graduated high school. Maybe we should look at the parents who are letting these “kids” roam nyc without supervision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has honestly turned into the dumbest story. Two people arguing over a bike, probably both in the wrong, and here we are almost 200 pages later arguing about it.

They both handled the bike dispute poorly, but only one of them filmed it and released it in the internet. Soooo … one of them was way worse.

You forgot that she was yelling "HELP ME HELP ME" as if she was in danger when it turns out she put herself in that position. Yea, the kid was being a dick by hoarding the bike and I would have been annoyed with him too, but she could have handled the interaction gracefully. They are both in the wrong.

I would feel threatened if someone shoved my bike into the dock and yelled lies at me about it being their bike.

So would I but now we have more information and this isn't what happened.

It’s exactly what happened. It’s what the video shows, the receipts substantiate, and what he said in *his own interview.*

There is only ONE fact actually in dispute here: whether (as he says) the boy was holding the bike and she “pushed” onto it despite him telling her he still wanted to rent it later; or whether (as she says) the bike was unattended.

Even if his version is true, that still does not support the false claims that she was “stealing” his bike and faking her distress to intentionally endanger him.

Unfortunately this episode has for me given the knowledge that actual racism/sexism exists against white women among some black people. The knee jerk reaction to a white person was to assume she is evil and intends harm; and moreover that white women are fundamentally evil. It is pretty disturbing.

Same here. The term Karen has concerned me as a racist, sexist, ageist trope for some time. What this incident shows is that it's become extremely easy to Karen a white woman for fun and leave it to grifters like Monique to platform it with racist dog whistles about tears etc, whip up the online pitchforks and mobs, and quickly ruin someone's life (because social media rewards this monetarily, in Monique's case). There's a large segment of the population, including the "ally" here, who won't even question it because, hey, white women are always and everywhere less than human.

I think the teens were just being teens and have no animus toward them, although I do think they were clearly in the wrong.

Nice try. That's not even near what any of us (and there are more than one of us) have said. White women are just very good at upholding white supremacy. No one is calling us less than human, we are just not falling for the 'mean black men innocent white girl' trope.

Nice try. Your response on this thread demonstrates without a doubt that you're falling back on the "mean white women innocent black men" trope. Own it.

Ally pp is also falling back on the "white women's tears" trope because there's no conceivable circumstance where a white woman being shoved around on a bike she's sitting on could actually need help. It's toxic.

The issue is you're stating that as if it's fact. As if she couldn't have done wrong before the video, like taken a bike they said they were using. No one is saying their behavior is "fine" - it's not, but the 'help me' bullshit was just dumb.

What’s “just dumb” is thinking that you can tell what someone is thinking and feeling based on a short video clip, particularly where there is one reasonable interpretation of the context that would support her reaction as genuine.

It is a well-known phenomenon that people can be bad at inferring emotion others are experiencing, and we often use our bias to make a biased interpretation. Anyone who can look at that video and conclude “she’s faking” uncritically is pretty ignorant.

+100. What this shows is that someone who buys into "all white women weaponize their tears in every situation," based on a video where they may have edited out the actual bike shoving, is going to think she was faking it. Which is pretty racist and sexist of them.

-- progressive woman

NP and unrelated to this incident but if you're progressive you should know that racism requires a power differential. We can't be racist against white women. Prejudiced, sure. Not racist.

Prejudiced is racist.

DP. You haven't kept up with the commonly accepted defintion of racism today. Racism is prejudice plus power. Racial bias alone is NOT sufficient.

[Anonymous]

Is she’d just acted like the educated, privileged adult that she is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has honestly turned into the dumbest story. Two people arguing over a bike, probably both in the wrong, and here we are almost 200 pages later arguing about it.

They both handled the bike dispute poorly, but only one of them filmed it and released it in the internet. Soooo … one of them was way worse.

You forgot that she was yelling "HELP ME HELP ME" as if she was in danger when it turns out she put herself in that position. Yea, the kid was being a dick by hoarding the bike and I would have been annoyed with him too, but she could have handled the interaction gracefully. They are both in the wrong.

I would feel threatened if someone shoved my bike into the dock and yelled lies at me about it being their bike.

So would I but now we have more information and this isn't what happened.

It’s exactly what happened. It’s what the video shows, the receipts substantiate, and what he said in *his own interview.*

There is only ONE fact actually in dispute here: whether (as he says) the boy was holding the bike and she “pushed” onto it despite him telling her he still wanted to rent it later; or whether (as she says) the bike was unattended.

Even if his version is true, that still does not support the false claims that she was “stealing” his bike and faking her distress to intentionally endanger him.

Unfortunately this episode has for me given the knowledge that actual racism/sexism exists against white women among some black people. The knee jerk reaction to a white person was to assume she is evil and intends harm; and moreover that white women are fundamentally evil. It is pretty disturbing.

Same here. The term Karen has concerned me as a racist, sexist, ageist trope for some time. What this incident shows is that it's become extremely easy to Karen a white woman for fun and leave it to grifters like Monique to platform it with racist dog whistles about tears etc, whip up the online pitchforks and mobs, and quickly ruin someone's life (because social media rewards this monetarily, in Monique's case). There's a large segment of the population, including the "ally" here, who won't even question it because, hey, white women are always and everywhere less than human.

I think the teens were just being teens and have no animus toward them, although I do think they were clearly in the wrong.

Nice try. That's not even near what any of us (and there are more than one of us) have said. White women are just very good at upholding white supremacy. No one is calling us less than human, we are just not falling for the 'mean black men innocent white girl' trope.

Nice try. Your response on this thread demonstrates without a doubt that you're falling back on the "mean white women innocent black men" trope. Own it.

Ally pp is also falling back on the "white women's tears" trope because there's no conceivable circumstance where a white woman being shoved around on a bike she's sitting on could actually need help. It's toxic.

The issue is you're stating that as if it's fact. As if she couldn't have done wrong before the video, like taken a bike they said they were using. No one is saying their behavior is "fine" - it's not, but the 'help me' bullshit was just dumb.

What’s “just dumb” is thinking that you can tell what someone is thinking and feeling based on a short video clip, particularly where there is one reasonable interpretation of the context that would support her reaction as genuine.

It is a well-known phenomenon that people can be bad at inferring emotion others are experiencing, and we often use our bias to make a biased interpretation. Anyone who can look at that video and conclude “she’s faking” uncritically is pretty ignorant.

+100. What this shows is that someone who buys into "all white women weaponize their tears in every situation," based on a video where they may have edited out the actual bike shoving, is going to think she was faking it. Which is pretty racist and sexist of them.

-- progressive woman

NP and unrelated to this incident but if you're progressive you should know that racism requires a power differential. We can't be racist against white women. Prejudiced, sure. Not racist.

This is not gospel truth, but a contested meaning of the term “racist.” Not everybody accepts the critical theory-based premises of your understanding of racism. In fact most people don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has honestly turned into the dumbest story. Two people arguing over a bike, probably both in the wrong, and here we are almost 200 pages later arguing about it.

They both handled the bike dispute poorly, but only one of them filmed it and released it in the internet. Soooo … one of them was way worse.

You forgot that she was yelling "HELP ME HELP ME" as if she was in danger when it turns out she put herself in that position. Yea, the kid was being a dick by hoarding the bike and I would have been annoyed with him too, but she could have handled the interaction gracefully. They are both in the wrong.

I would feel threatened if someone shoved my bike into the dock and yelled lies at me about it being their bike.

So would I but now we have more information and this isn't what happened.

It’s exactly what happened. It’s what the video shows, the receipts substantiate, and what he said in *his own interview.*

There is only ONE fact actually in dispute here: whether (as he says) the boy was holding the bike and she “pushed” onto it despite him telling her he still wanted to rent it later; or whether (as she says) the bike was unattended.

Even if his version is true, that still does not support the false claims that she was “stealing” his bike and faking her distress to intentionally endanger him.

Unfortunately this episode has for me given the knowledge that actual racism/sexism exists against white women among some black people. The knee jerk reaction to a white person was to assume she is evil and intends harm; and moreover that white women are fundamentally evil. It is pretty disturbing.

Same here. The term Karen has concerned me as a racist, sexist, ageist trope for some time. What this incident shows is that it's become extremely easy to Karen a white woman for fun and leave it to grifters like Monique to platform it with racist dog whistles about tears etc, whip up the online pitchforks and mobs, and quickly ruin someone's life (because social media rewards this monetarily, in Monique's case). There's a large segment of the population, including the "ally" here, who won't even question it because, hey, white women are always and everywhere less than human.

I think the teens were just being teens and have no animus toward them, although I do think they were clearly in the wrong.

Nice try. That's not even near what any of us (and there are more than one of us) have said. White women are just very good at upholding white supremacy. No one is calling us less than human, we are just not falling for the 'mean black men innocent white girl' trope.

Nice try. Your response on this thread demonstrates without a doubt that you're falling back on the "mean white women innocent black men" trope. Own it.

Ally pp is also falling back on the "white women's tears" trope because there's no conceivable circumstance where a white woman being shoved around on a bike she's sitting on could actually need help. It's toxic.

The issue is you're stating that as if it's fact. As if she couldn't have done wrong before the video, like taken a bike they said they were using. No one is saying their behavior is "fine" - it's not, but the 'help me' bullshit was just dumb.

What’s “just dumb” is thinking that you can tell what someone is thinking and feeling based on a short video clip, particularly where there is one reasonable interpretation of the context that would support her reaction as genuine.

It is a well-known phenomenon that people can be bad at inferring emotion others are experiencing, and we often use our bias to make a biased interpretation. Anyone who can look at that video and conclude “she’s faking” uncritically is pretty ignorant.

+100. What this shows is that someone who buys into "all white women weaponize their tears in every situation," based on a video where they may have edited out the actual bike shoving, is going to think she was faking it. Which is pretty racist and sexist of them.

-- progressive woman

NP and unrelated to this incident but if you're progressive you should know that racism requires a power differential. We can't be racist against white women. Prejudiced, sure. Not racist.

Prejudiced is racist.

DP. You haven't kept up with the commonly accepted defintion of racism today. Racism is prejudice plus power. Racial bias alone is NOT sufficient.

This is a politicized definition of “racism”. It is “commonly accepted” only by those on the left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is she’d just acted like the educated, privileged adult that she is.

You mean, not even walk up to a bike that was unattended because, hey, those four guys sitting on the bench over there might conceivably need it in half an hour?

Or, if you don't believe her version, in any case she should have just given the last free e-bike up to group of healthy young men, slunk away quietly, and pedaled home.

#whitewomenshouldhavezeroagency

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has honestly turned into the dumbest story. Two people arguing over a bike, probably both in the wrong, and here we are almost 200 pages later arguing about it.

They both handled the bike dispute poorly, but only one of them filmed it and released it in the internet. Soooo … one of them was way worse.

You forgot that she was yelling "HELP ME HELP ME" as if she was in danger when it turns out she put herself in that position. Yea, the kid was being a dick by hoarding the bike and I would have been annoyed with him too, but she could have handled the interaction gracefully. They are both in the wrong.

I would feel threatened if someone shoved my bike into the dock and yelled lies at me about it being their bike.

So would I but now we have more information and this isn't what happened.

It’s exactly what happened. It’s what the video shows, the receipts substantiate, and what he said in *his own interview.*

There is only ONE fact actually in dispute here: whether (as he says) the boy was holding the bike and she “pushed” onto it despite him telling her he still wanted to rent it later; or whether (as she says) the bike was unattended.

Even if his version is true, that still does not support the false claims that she was “stealing” his bike and faking her distress to intentionally endanger him.

Unfortunately this episode has for me given the knowledge that actual racism/sexism exists against white women among some black people. The knee jerk reaction to a white person was to assume she is evil and intends harm; and moreover that white women are fundamentally evil. It is pretty disturbing.

Same here. The term Karen has concerned me as a racist, sexist, ageist trope for some time. What this incident shows is that it's become extremely easy to Karen a white woman for fun and leave it to grifters like Monique to platform it with racist dog whistles about tears etc, whip up the online pitchforks and mobs, and quickly ruin someone's life (because social media rewards this monetarily, in Monique's case). There's a large segment of the population, including the "ally" here, who won't even question it because, hey, white women are always and everywhere less than human.

I think the teens were just being teens and have no animus toward them, although I do think they were clearly in the wrong.

Nice try. That's not even near what any of us (and there are more than one of us) have said. White women are just very good at upholding white supremacy. No one is calling us less than human, we are just not falling for the 'mean black men innocent white girl' trope.

Nice try. Your response on this thread demonstrates without a doubt that you're falling back on the "mean white women innocent black men" trope. Own it.

Ally pp is also falling back on the "white women's tears" trope because there's no conceivable circumstance where a white woman being shoved around on a bike she's sitting on could actually need help. It's toxic.

The issue is you're stating that as if it's fact. As if she couldn't have done wrong before the video, like taken a bike they said they were using. No one is saying their behavior is "fine" - it's not, but the 'help me' bullshit was just dumb.

What’s “just dumb” is thinking that you can tell what someone is thinking and feeling based on a short video clip, particularly where there is one reasonable interpretation of the context that would support her reaction as genuine.

It is a well-known phenomenon that people can be bad at inferring emotion others are experiencing, and we often use our bias to make a biased interpretation. Anyone who can look at that video and conclude “she’s faking” uncritically is pretty ignorant.

+100. What this shows is that someone who buys into "all white women weaponize their tears in every situation," based on a video where they may have edited out the actual bike shoving, is going to think she was faking it. Which is pretty racist and sexist of them.

-- progressive woman

NP and unrelated to this incident but if you're progressive you should know that racism requires a power differential. We can't be racist against white women. Prejudiced, sure. Not racist.

Prejudiced is racist.

DP. You haven't kept up with the commonly accepted defintion of racism today. Racism is prejudice plus power. Racial bias alone is NOT sufficient.

This is a politicized definition of “racism”. It is “commonly accepted” only by those on the left.

By those on the way left

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is she’d just acted like the educated, privileged adult that she is.

Privileged because she's 6-months pregnant and coming off a 12-hour shift, and now she has to bike home to her apartment? Where's her chauffeur when she needs him!