DA vs ECNL vs everything else

[Anonymous]

Please keep up.

Player transfer from Loudoun to FCV happens at the older ages. Stop with the 07 stuff. I know Loudoun 07 dad likes beating his chest on here...but it's little kid soccer.

Loudoun 04 and 05 were destroyed by the loss of talent. Get a grip. The truth is in front of you but your blind club loyalty won't allow you to comprehend.

I hope the club is as loyal to you as you are to it. Time will tell. Tick tick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because FCV promises things like college scholarships and impressionable players and parents jump at the prospect.

BS alert. We were at FCV for many years and I never heard promises of scholarships at any level.

Why Loudoun players leave for FCV is a good question though because it gets to the heart of why there is player movement between any set of clubs. I think there are three reasons why players move. Level of play, record, and training environment. FCV's GDA entry virtually guarantees the best available level of competitive opponents, and by virtue of their previous ECNL history and player pool, and fortunate geographic circumstances they have been able to maintain, and in some cases improve the level of play within the club. Secondly, because of this, they have an pretty impressive record in their division, and we will see how that translates at the national level shortly. The competitive aspect draws in the parents more than the kids I think, but since they pay the bills, this contributes to movement. Finally, they do have a great head coach in Puppione, and a supporting cast. From the outside, unless you really do your research, it is hard to see anything but the first two factors, level of play and record. It is the training environment and relationship issues that only become evident after you get involved for a while.

IMO, FCV suffers most from poor parent relationships, a lack of integrity, and a fairly high level of arrogance (staff, players, and parents all). This forum is littered with examples). Their coaching depth is not great, and is subject to a revolving door, but this is common among many clubs. There are also fundamental issues with field access. Additionally, there is some backlash due to the fact that their talent level is relatively high, so lots of promising players get turned away, or relegated to the NPL level (or now EDP for some ages). They cater pretty well if you are on the starting 11, but their interest in players drops off pretty quickly beyond that. Lots of folks leave the club and bash the club here due to this.

I agree with most of this post except when you say their talent level is relatively high. I think this varies greatly by age. At the older ages yes, they have a couple of National level talent. The younger teams are not nearly as talented. They traditionally relied on recruiting from Loudoun because they were the only ECNL program in the area. Terry Foley had a good reputation and was well connected. Until now, that story was more or less the same because they were the only option at the highest level in the immediate area. If you have a strong player at Loudoun for example, what are going to do? Go to ECNL. For 2017-18 - same deal because Loudoun had nothing past U12. WS just getting started, so top DA program was FCV.

For 2018-19 - everything changes. Loudoun now has ECNL. I am Loudoun 07 parent and it's a huge factor in the club. You do not have to believe me, I do not care - because I know the deal. I talk to the parents everyday on the top teams.

Now WS has hired some great coaches and they are a factor for the future. They are getting better. They have NWSL benefits that FCV cannot offer.

Now FCV must stand on their reputation and how they treat players and parents. Not a strong suit when you have a fairly high level of arrogance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please keep up.

Player transfer from Loudoun to FCV happens at the older ages. Stop with the 07 stuff. I know Loudoun 07 dad likes beating his chest on here...but it's little kid soccer.

Loudoun 04 and 05 were destroyed by the loss of talent. Get a grip. The truth is in front of you but your blind club loyalty won't allow you to comprehend.

I hope the club is as loyal to you as you are to it. Time will tell. Tick tick.

Yeah just keep saying we are u-littles. Tick tick. You know that 07 is U12 next year. The factors have changed with the new options starting - now. You sound like a baby boomer talking about how the 1960s were the best decade for music and lamenting that 1980s will never be classic music.

I am not loyal to the club. I am picking the best environment for my DD year to year. At my age group, Loudoun is the best program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because FCV promises things like college scholarships and impressionable players and parents jump at the prospect.

BS alert. We were at FCV for many years and I never heard promises of scholarships at any level.

Why Loudoun players leave for FCV is a good question though because it gets to the heart of why there is player movement between any set of clubs. I think there are three reasons why players move. Level of play, record, and training environment. FCV's GDA entry virtually guarantees the best available level of competitive opponents, and by virtue of their previous ECNL history and player pool, and fortunate geographic circumstances they have been able to maintain, and in some cases improve the level of play within the club. Secondly, because of this, they have an pretty impressive record in their division, and we will see how that translates at the national level shortly. The competitive aspect draws in the parents more than the kids I think, but since they pay the bills, this contributes to movement. Finally, they do have a great head coach in Puppione, and a supporting cast. From the outside, unless you really do your research, it is hard to see anything but the first two factors, level of play and record. It is the training environment and relationship issues that only become evident after you get involved for a while.

IMO, FCV suffers most from poor parent relationships, a lack of integrity, and a fairly high level of arrogance (staff, players, and parents all). This forum is littered with examples). Their coaching depth is not great, and is subject to a revolving door, but this is common among many clubs. There are also fundamental issues with field access. Additionally, there is some backlash due to the fact that their talent level is relatively high, so lots of promising players get turned away, or relegated to the NPL level (or now EDP for some ages). They cater pretty well if you are on the starting 11, but their interest in players drops off pretty quickly beyond that. Lots of folks leave the club and bash the club here due to this.

I agree with most of this post except when you say their talent level is relatively high. I think this varies greatly by age. At the older ages yes, they have a couple of National level talent. The younger teams are not nearly as talented. They traditionally relied on recruiting from Loudoun because they were the only ECNL program in the area. Terry Foley had a good reputation and was well connected. Until now, that story was more or less the same because they were the only option at the highest level in the immediate area. If you have a strong player at Loudoun for example, what are going to do? Go to ECNL. For 2017-18 - same deal because Loudoun had nothing past U12. WS just getting started, so top DA program was FCV.

For 2018-19 - everything changes. Loudoun now has ECNL. I am Loudoun 07 parent and it's a huge factor in the club. You do not have to believe me, I do not care - because I know the deal. I talk to the parents everyday on the top teams.

Now WS has hired some great coaches and they are a factor for the future. They are getting better. They have NWSL benefits that FCV cannot offer.

Now FCV must stand on their reputation and how they treat players and parents. Not a strong suit when you have a fairly high level of arrogance.

PP here, you are correct, I was referring to the older ages 03 and above. I have very little insight to the early DA and pre-DA age groups. I am curious to hear how the Loudoun families regard the ECNL option there, since it will affect the ability of FCV to draw those top players away. It sounds like the 05 situation had some other factors, but I will be interested to hear about the 06 group. Do Loudoun familes at 06 and 07 believe they have a top quality coaching program to rival what they might see at FCV or WS GDA programs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please keep up.

Player transfer from Loudoun to FCV happens at the older ages. Stop with the 07 stuff. I know Loudoun 07 dad likes beating his chest on here...but it's little kid soccer.

Loudoun 04 and 05 were destroyed by the loss of talent. Get a grip. The truth is in front of you but your blind club loyalty won't allow you to comprehend.

I hope the club is as loyal to you as you are to it. Time will tell. Tick tick.

I believe what Loudoun Dad is saying is that the current mindset is that ECNL will offer enough of a carrot to retain most of their players going forward.

But, lets also not act as though Loudoun was the only place where FCV brought kids in from. Over the years kids have come from BRYC, McLean, SYA and other places. The difference now is there are several DAs as well as ECNL clubs that are competing with FCV for talent. Loudoun having ECNL will result in player retention. The scale of that retention is anyone's guess, but if Loudoun dad is to be believed it may be significantly higher with the 07 and possibly 08 age groups going forward. These are vulnerable age groups for FCV currently.

And, if Loudoun Dad is to be believed when he says that 104 kids went to Loudoun tryouts then clearly Loudoun + ECNL = Trouble for FCV. Folks will look up Gotsoccer rankings for the 07 and 08 teams between the clubs and most parents will gravitate towards the winner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because FCV promises things like college scholarships and impressionable players and parents jump at the prospect.

BS alert. We were at FCV for many years and I never heard promises of scholarships at any level.

Why Loudoun players leave for FCV is a good question though because it gets to the heart of why there is player movement between any set of clubs. I think there are three reasons why players move. Level of play, record, and training environment. FCV's GDA entry virtually guarantees the best available level of competitive opponents, and by virtue of their previous ECNL history and player pool, and fortunate geographic circumstances they have been able to maintain, and in some cases improve the level of play within the club. Secondly, because of this, they have an pretty impressive record in their division, and we will see how that translates at the national level shortly. The competitive aspect draws in the parents more than the kids I think, but since they pay the bills, this contributes to movement. Finally, they do have a great head coach in Puppione, and a supporting cast. From the outside, unless you really do your research, it is hard to see anything but the first two factors, level of play and record. It is the training environment and relationship issues that only become evident after you get involved for a while.

IMO, FCV suffers most from poor parent relationships, a lack of integrity, and a fairly high level of arrogance (staff, players, and parents all). This forum is littered with examples). Their coaching depth is not great, and is subject to a revolving door, but this is common among many clubs. There are also fundamental issues with field access. Additionally, there is some backlash due to the fact that their talent level is relatively high, so lots of promising players get turned away, or relegated to the NPL level (or now EDP for some ages). They cater pretty well if you are on the starting 11, but their interest in players drops off pretty quickly beyond that. Lots of folks leave the club and bash the club here due to this.

Very helpful. Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because FCV promises things like college scholarships and impressionable players and parents jump at the prospect.

BS alert. We were at FCV for many years and I never heard promises of scholarships at any level.

Why Loudoun players leave for FCV is a good question though because it gets to the heart of why there is player movement between any set of clubs. I think there are three reasons why players move. Level of play, record, and training environment. FCV's GDA entry virtually guarantees the best available level of competitive opponents, and by virtue of their previous ECNL history and player pool, and fortunate geographic circumstances they have been able to maintain, and in some cases improve the level of play within the club. Secondly, because of this, they have an pretty impressive record in their division, and we will see how that translates at the national level shortly. The competitive aspect draws in the parents more than the kids I think, but since they pay the bills, this contributes to movement. Finally, they do have a great head coach in Puppione, and a supporting cast. From the outside, unless you really do your research, it is hard to see anything but the first two factors, level of play and record. It is the training environment and relationship issues that only become evident after you get involved for a while.

IMO, FCV suffers most from poor parent relationships, a lack of integrity, and a fairly high level of arrogance (staff, players, and parents all). This forum is littered with examples). Their coaching depth is not great, and is subject to a revolving door, but this is common among many clubs. There are also fundamental issues with field access. Additionally, there is some backlash due to the fact that their talent level is relatively high, so lots of promising players get turned away, or relegated to the NPL level (or now EDP for some ages). They cater pretty well if you are on the starting 11, but their interest in players drops off pretty quickly beyond that. Lots of folks leave the club and bash the club here due to this.

I agree with most of this post except when you say their talent level is relatively high. I think this varies greatly by age. At the older ages yes, they have a couple of National level talent. The younger teams are not nearly as talented. They traditionally relied on recruiting from Loudoun because they were the only ECNL program in the area. Terry Foley had a good reputation and was well connected. Until now, that story was more or less the same because they were the only option at the highest level in the immediate area. If you have a strong player at Loudoun for example, what are going to do? Go to ECNL. For 2017-18 - same deal because Loudoun had nothing past U12. WS just getting started, so top DA program was FCV.

For 2018-19 - everything changes. Loudoun now has ECNL. I am Loudoun 07 parent and it's a huge factor in the club. You do not have to believe me, I do not care - because I know the deal. I talk to the parents everyday on the top teams.

Now WS has hired some great coaches and they are a factor for the future. They are getting better. They have NWSL benefits that FCV cannot offer.

Now FCV must stand on their reputation and how they treat players and parents. Not a strong suit when you have a fairly high level of arrogance.

PP here, you are correct, I was referring to the older ages 03 and above. I have very little insight to the early DA and pre-DA age groups. I am curious to hear how the Loudoun families regard the ECNL option there, since it will affect the ability of FCV to draw those top players away. It sounds like the 05 situation had some other factors, but I will be interested to hear about the 06 group. Do Loudoun familes at 06 and 07 believe they have a top quality coaching program to rival what they might see at FCV or WS GDA programs?

PP Loudoun 07 parent here. Yes. No question coaching at Loudoun is top quality. Starting at the top with TD Mark Ryan - Youth Soccer National Coach of the Year in 2015. From him down, it's top quality coaching.

I will say something which is has not been discussed. Coaches seem to love working at Loudoun. Why wouldn't they? The facilities are incredible, the program is super well organized and the organization supports them. They reward coaches by giving them higher teams and more responsibility over time if a coach does well. As club policy they do not allow parents to coach from the sideline and act like asses. It is just not tolerated. So they quickly fill coaching vacancies and can choose the best.

If you play at Loudoun your DD will get time with many quality coaches on a weekly basis and play on great fields both turf and grass. I feel like development has been great. Are there downsides to a big program, sure but they are minor compared to the benefits IMHO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please keep up.

Player transfer from Loudoun to FCV happens at the older ages. Stop with the 07 stuff. I know Loudoun 07 dad likes beating his chest on here...but it's little kid soccer.

Loudoun 04 and 05 were destroyed by the loss of talent. Get a grip. The truth is in front of you but your blind club loyalty won't allow you to comprehend.

I hope the club is as loyal to you as you are to it. Time will tell. Tick tick.

I believe what Loudoun Dad is saying is that the current mindset is that ECNL will offer enough of a carrot to retain most of their players going forward.

But, lets also not act as though Loudoun was the only place where FCV brought kids in from. Over the years kids have come from BRYC, McLean, SYA and other places. The difference now is there are several DAs as well as ECNL clubs that are competing with FCV for talent. Loudoun having ECNL will result in player retention. The scale of that retention is anyone's guess, but if Loudoun dad is to be believed it may be significantly higher with the 07 and possibly 08 age groups going forward. These are vulnerable age groups for FCV currently.

And, if Loudoun Dad is to be believed when he says that 104 kids went to Loudoun tryouts then clearly Loudoun + ECNL = Trouble for FCV. Folks will look up Gotsoccer rankings for the 07 and 08 teams between the clubs and most parents will gravitate towards the winner.

I think the bigger question is whether or not the ECNL will now become just a glorified version of the old CCL with a bigger geographic footprint. The GDA has 3 teams in NOVA. ECNL has 4 teams in NOVA. There are not 7 teams worth of top level players in the area - its just not realistic. I am not saying the ECNL shouldn't exist but its too many teams for the area. There needs to be some consolidation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because FCV promises things like college scholarships and impressionable players and parents jump at the prospect.

BS alert. We were at FCV for many years and I never heard promises of scholarships at any level.

Why Loudoun players leave for FCV is a good question though because it gets to the heart of why there is player movement between any set of clubs. I think there are three reasons why players move. Level of play, record, and training environment. FCV's GDA entry virtually guarantees the best available level of competitive opponents, and by virtue of their previous ECNL history and player pool, and fortunate geographic circumstances they have been able to maintain, and in some cases improve the level of play within the club. Secondly, because of this, they have an pretty impressive record in their division, and we will see how that translates at the national level shortly. The competitive aspect draws in the parents more than the kids I think, but since they pay the bills, this contributes to movement. Finally, they do have a great head coach in Puppione, and a supporting cast. From the outside, unless you really do your research, it is hard to see anything but the first two factors, level of play and record. It is the training environment and relationship issues that only become evident after you get involved for a while.

IMO, FCV suffers most from poor parent relationships, a lack of integrity, and a fairly high level of arrogance (staff, players, and parents all). This forum is littered with examples). Their coaching depth is not great, and is subject to a revolving door, but this is common among many clubs. There are also fundamental issues with field access. Additionally, there is some backlash due to the fact that their talent level is relatively high, so lots of promising players get turned away, or relegated to the NPL level (or now EDP for some ages). They cater pretty well if you are on the starting 11, but their interest in players drops off pretty quickly beyond that. Lots of folks leave the club and bash the club here due to this.

So FCV DA folds eventually? That might be quite possible. Some people i have talked to not happy with the way they were treated.

I agree with most of this post except when you say their talent level is relatively high. I think this varies greatly by age. At the older ages yes, they have a couple of National level talent. The younger teams are not nearly as talented. They traditionally relied on recruiting from Loudoun because they were the only ECNL program in the area. Terry Foley had a good reputation and was well connected. Until now, that story was more or less the same because they were the only option at the highest level in the immediate area. If you have a strong player at Loudoun for example, what are going to do? Go to ECNL. For 2017-18 - same deal because Loudoun had nothing past U12. WS just getting started, so top DA program was FCV.

For 2018-19 - everything changes. Loudoun now has ECNL. I am Loudoun 07 parent and it's a huge factor in the club. You do not have to believe me, I do not care - because I know the deal. I talk to the parents everyday on the top teams.

Now WS has hired some great coaches and they are a factor for the future. They are getting better. They have NWSL benefits that FCV cannot offer.

Now FCV must stand on their reputation and how they treat players and parents. Not a strong suit when you have a fairly high level of arrogance.

[Anonymous]

Speaking of Loudoun: what is going to happen to their DA on the boy side now that DCU is moving there?

[Anonymous]

I have heard the same but I also speak to players who left after U14 for FCV or Mclean ECNL. Many say that the team is not that serious as you reach the showcase age. Maybe that changes with ECNL.

Does FCV have good coaches and fields?

[Anonymous]

Loudoun 07....whats that...top level 4th/5th grade soccer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Speaking of Loudoun: what is going to happen to their DA on the boy side now that DCU is moving there?

The boys DA at Loudoun will get pummeled by DCU being next door.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have heard the same but I also speak to players who left after U14 for FCV or Mclean ECNL. Many say that the team is not that serious as you reach the showcase age. Maybe that changes with ECNL.

Does FCV have good coaches and fields?

It is hard not to be serious with showcases in ECNL. There are rules regarding the minimum number of showcases teams are required to attend. Without this framework, I could understand Loudoun teams not pursuing showcases.... that is part of the retention problem there.

FCV does have some good coaches at the GDA level. Beyond that, it is a crapshoot, as with most clubs. They do not own their own fields. They primarily rent at Evergreen and have access at county fields like Bles Park.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have heard the same but I also speak to players who left after U14 for FCV or Mclean ECNL. Many say that the team is not that serious as you reach the showcase age. Maybe that changes with ECNL.

Does FCV have good coaches and fields?

They have two good coaches at DA.

The DA requires fields for ten months of training and lights.

FCV is slowly being squeezed out of Evergreen and their for profit status and small rec/FCV United numbers put them behind the que for any Loudoun Parks fields behind Loudoun who get first pick due to their size and non-profit status.