Protests on college campuses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These idiot students, like the vast majority of protesters, couldn’t find Israel on a map, much less Gaza. They are ignorant, empty headed, vapid automatons, mindlessly parroting Hamas slogans while defacing campuses. I want nothing to do with them.

Well, to be fair, most Americans couldn't find Israel on a map.

Most Americans aren’t screaming in the faces of others, insisting they capitulate to their demands, either.

Gee, that sounds like a good number of the GOP members of the House. And the Jan 6 insurgents. And a Trump rally. Hmm.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

DP and thank you, PP, you have distilled how I feel and said it in a reasonable and rational way.

Many of us found the attacks by Hamas horrifying and unjustified. I recognize the right of Israel to exist. But I do not think razing Gaza is included in that right. I support those who protest the destruction of Gaza if they remain peaceful. Protesters who destroy property or say antisemitic things or similar no longer have my support. They should face consequences appropriate for their actions, but not violence or doxing.

Why is basic civility and nuanced thinking so hard to find.

+1

+2. Thanks to the PP for concisely summarizing my thoughts. I don't think we are the only ones that feel this way.

I agree that we’re not alone with these views, though it often feels that way. At times, I guess it’s too easy for well-intentioned people to retreat to the extreme margins rather than make a concession. I do it myself, too often.

The most difficult part of the discussion around this conflict, for me anyway, is reckoning with the fact that some of those on the extreme fringe have children who are being indoctrinated into the same dehumanizing way of thinking, on both sides. And the most frustrating part is that one side has been emboldened by America’s unconditional support and U.N. interference to the point where there is no incentive to find peace and there is also no consequence for obstructing peace.

Equivocating and looking for the "middle ground" in the face of a genocide isn't the enlightened flex you think it is. It makes you as guilty and despicable as those carrying out the violence themselves.

You left off the "/s".

People are dying. You're making stupid quips on the internet. Surely, you're better than this.

Ok fine. Tell us exactly how the president of Columbia is going to stop it. Because these idiots are making demands of the school. Not Hamas, not IDF, but the school.

Be specific as possible.

I dont think asking you to show a modicum of respect for the issue at hand means that I alone have to provide you with the all the answers. I suggested that you were better than making cute little quips about this while people's lives are at stake, but I see I was wrong.

People are upset. They are using the outlets and platforms they have to try to stop the carnage, and you mock them for it. All of you should be deeply ashamed of yourselves. How many times do the youth have to remind us of the difference between right and wrong, because we all have our heads too far up our asses to see that maybe this isn't as nuanced as we want to pretend.

People are being murdered— innocent people — to satisfy the blood lust of those with more money and power than them. Our money is funding it. And politicians are attempting to silence voices of dissent. And you morons are cheering it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:These idiot students, like the vast majority of protesters, couldn’t find Israel on a map, much less Gaza. They are ignorant, empty headed, vapid automatons, mindlessly parroting Hamas slogans while defacing campuses. I want nothing to do with them.

Well, to be fair, most Americans couldn't find Israel on a map.

Most Americans aren’t screaming in the faces of others, insisting they capitulate to their demands, either.

Gee, that sounds like a good number of the GOP members of the House. And the Jan 6 insurgents. And a Trump rally. Hmm.

Dp. You really make PP’s point. That is fringe right and this is fringe left. And to be honest, you sound like part of the problem. MOST of us are decent, civilized, rational people who want peace for ALL people.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

DP and thank you, PP, you have distilled how I feel and said it in a reasonable and rational way.

Many of us found the attacks by Hamas horrifying and unjustified. I recognize the right of Israel to exist. But I do not think razing Gaza is included in that right. I support those who protest the destruction of Gaza if they remain peaceful. Protesters who destroy property or say antisemitic things or similar no longer have my support. They should face consequences appropriate for their actions, but not violence or doxing.

Why is basic civility and nuanced thinking so hard to find.

+1

+2. Thanks to the PP for concisely summarizing my thoughts. I don't think we are the only ones that feel this way.

I agree that we’re not alone with these views, though it often feels that way. At times, I guess it’s too easy for well-intentioned people to retreat to the extreme margins rather than make a concession. I do it myself, too often.

The most difficult part of the discussion around this conflict, for me anyway, is reckoning with the fact that some of those on the extreme fringe have children who are being indoctrinated into the same dehumanizing way of thinking, on both sides. And the most frustrating part is that one side has been emboldened by America’s unconditional support and U.N. interference to the point where there is no incentive to find peace and there is also no consequence for obstructing peace.

Equivocating and looking for the "middle ground" in the face of a genocide isn't the enlightened flex you think it is. It makes you as guilty and despicable as those carrying out the violence themselves.

You left off the "/s".

People are dying. You're making stupid quips on the internet. Surely, you're better than this.

Ok fine. Tell us exactly how the president of Columbia is going to stop it. Because these idiots are making demands of the school. Not Hamas, not IDF, but the school.

Be specific as possible.

I dont think asking you to show a modicum of respect for the issue at hand means that I alone have to provide you with the all the answers. I suggested that you were better than making cute little quips about this while people's lives are at stake, but I see I was wrong.

People are upset. They are using the outlets and platforms they have to try to stop the carnage, and you mock them for it. All of you should be deeply ashamed of yourselves. How many times do the youth have to remind us of the difference between right and wrong, because we all have our heads too far up our asses to see that maybe this isn't as nuanced as we want to pretend.

People are being murdered— innocent people — to satisfy the blood lust of those with more money and power than them. Our money is funding it. And politicians are attempting to silence voices of dissent. And you morons are cheering it.

PP who made the "quip" here. Your post that I was responding to said that a different poster was as guilty as those carrying out the violence (IDF? Hamas?) because ... of a post on the internet. You're correct that people are dying. But your perspective is just wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

DP and thank you, PP, you have distilled how I feel and said it in a reasonable and rational way.

Many of us found the attacks by Hamas horrifying and unjustified. I recognize the right of Israel to exist. But I do not think razing Gaza is included in that right. I support those who protest the destruction of Gaza if they remain peaceful. Protesters who destroy property or say antisemitic things or similar no longer have my support. They should face consequences appropriate for their actions, but not violence or doxing.

Why is basic civility and nuanced thinking so hard to find.

+1

+2. Thanks to the PP for concisely summarizing my thoughts. I don't think we are the only ones that feel this way.

I agree that we’re not alone with these views, though it often feels that way. At times, I guess it’s too easy for well-intentioned people to retreat to the extreme margins rather than make a concession. I do it myself, too often.

The most difficult part of the discussion around this conflict, for me anyway, is reckoning with the fact that some of those on the extreme fringe have children who are being indoctrinated into the same dehumanizing way of thinking, on both sides. And the most frustrating part is that one side has been emboldened by America’s unconditional support and U.N. interference to the point where there is no incentive to find peace and there is also no consequence for obstructing peace.

Equivocating and looking for the "middle ground" in the face of a genocide isn't the enlightened flex you think it is. It makes you as guilty and despicable as those carrying out the violence themselves.

You left off the "/s".

People are dying. You're making stupid quips on the internet. Surely, you're better than this.

Ok fine. Tell us exactly how the president of Columbia is going to stop it. Because these idiots are making demands of the school. Not Hamas, not IDF, but the school.

Be specific as possible.

I dont think asking you to show a modicum of respect for the issue at hand means that I alone have to provide you with the all the answers. I suggested that you were better than making cute little quips about this while people's lives are at stake, but I see I was wrong.

People are upset. They are using the outlets and platforms they have to try to stop the carnage, and you mock them for it. All of you should be deeply ashamed of yourselves. How many times do the youth have to remind us of the difference between right and wrong, because we all have our heads too far up our asses to see that maybe this isn't as nuanced as we want to pretend.

People are being murdered— innocent people — to satisfy the blood lust of those with more money and power than them. Our money is funding it. And politicians are attempting to silence voices of dissent. And you morons are cheering it.

Completely and fully agree that this violence must stop. Complete agree the pain and suffering is inexcusable. What you fail to recognize (you sound like me 5+ years ago), is that this unfortunately so much bigger than that. There are several very powerful countries in the region. Why have they done nothing to help? Why did they not intervene in the region much sooner to help the Palestinian people? This is unfortunately a geopolitical wargame for the very powerful. And all of us - the everyday citizens across the globe- are pawns in that game. We are nothing more than collateral damage. You, me, the people in Palestine and Israel and all of the global proletariat.

As for what I wish for: Israeli government not having carte blanche to destroy as they choose and their right wing regime gone, Hamas destroyed, all local and very wealthy regions working with the US to create a 2-state solution and support the Palestinian people directly, no one as a second class citizen, no more war games, no more return of the Crusades (because that’s what this is), no more domestic or global division, no more destruction of our planet, and we live in collective humanity and ecological harmony. This is what I vehemently wish for. History tell us, not in our lifetime.

[Anonymous]

From Hillary Clinton on Morning Joe:

“I have had many conversations with a lot of young people over the last many months. They don’t know very much at all about the history of the Middle East or frankly about history in many areas of the world, including in our own country,” Clinton tells MSNBC’s Morning Joe.

“With respect to the Middle East, they don’t know that under the bringing together of the Israelis and the Palestinians by my husband — then-Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, the then-head of the Palestinian Liberation Organization Yasser Arafat — an offer was made to the Palestinians for a state on 96% of the existing territory occupied by the Palestinians with 4% of Israel to be given to reach 100% of the amount of territory that was hoped for.”

“This offer was made and if Yasser Arafat had accepted it there would have been a Palestinian state now for about 24 years. It’s one of the great tragedies of history that he was unable to say, ‘yes,'”

“My husband has a book coming out later this year in which he talks about how Arafat kept saying that he intended to agree, he wanted to agree, but he was pretty sure he’d be killed because Sadat was killed by extremists when he made peace with Israel. Our dear, dear friend, Yitzhak Rabin was killed by a radical Israeli when he was pursuing the two-state solution.”

“This is a very important piece of history to understand if you’re going to take any kind of position regarding what’s going on right now,”

“Anybody who is teaching in a university or anyone who is putting content on social media should be held responsible for what they include and what they exclude. So much of what we’re seeing, particularly on TikTok, about what’s going on in the Middle East is willfully false, but it’s also incredibly slanted, pro-Hamas, anti-Israel.”

“It is not any place where anyone should go to get information about complex matters like what is going on there… People are on social media oftentimes to press an ideological, religious, financial or partisan political agenda. You don’t get the facts, you don’t get any kind of context.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From Hillary Clinton on Morning Joe:

“I have had many conversations with a lot of young people over the last many months. They don’t know very much at all about the history of the Middle East or frankly about history in many areas of the world, including in our own country,” Clinton tells MSNBC’s Morning Joe.

“With respect to the Middle East, they don’t know that under the bringing together of the Israelis and the Palestinians by my husband — then-Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, the then-head of the Palestinian Liberation Organization Yasser Arafat — an offer was made to the Palestinians for a state on 96% of the existing territory occupied by the Palestinians with 4% of Israel to be given to reach 100% of the amount of territory that was hoped for.”

“This offer was made and if Yasser Arafat had accepted it there would have been a Palestinian state now for about 24 years. It’s one of the great tragedies of history that he was unable to say, ‘yes,'”

“My husband has a book coming out later this year in which he talks about how Arafat kept saying that he intended to agree, he wanted to agree, but he was pretty sure he’d be killed because Sadat was killed by extremists when he made peace with Israel. Our dear, dear friend, Yitzhak Rabin was killed by a radical Israeli when he was pursuing the two-state solution.”

“This is a very important piece of history to understand if you’re going to take any kind of position regarding what’s going on right now,”

“Anybody who is teaching in a university or anyone who is putting content on social media should be held responsible for what they include and what they exclude. So much of what we’re seeing, particularly on TikTok, about what’s going on in the Middle East is willfully false, but it’s also incredibly slanted, pro-Hamas, anti-Israel.”

“It is not any place where anyone should go to get information about complex matters like what is going on there… People are on social media oftentimes to press an ideological, religious, financial or partisan political agenda. You don’t get the facts, you don’t get any kind of context.”

I believe the correct response here is, "Boomer says what?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a very good letter. And the students who wrote it signed their names.

Great. They are welcome to write how they feel and their thoughts on the mattter.

Other Jewish people on campus feel differently and some have participated in the protests, like Jonathan Ben-Menachem. You can read his article here:
https://zeteo.com/p/i-am-a-jewish-student-at-columbia

I notice how the writers of this piece refer to people like Jonathan as "our Jewish peers who tokenize themselves"

You can notice all kinds of things, and keep not noticing the Jew hatred that's been unleashed since Hamas slaughtered, raped, and kidnapped 1200 Israelis on Oct 7.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge the massive imbalance in atrocities committed by the Israeli side in this conflict, the less people hear you.

The more you ignore and refuse to acknowledge those atrocities and instead propagate false claims regarding the events of 10/7, the less people see you.

And the more you do both of those things while demanding that others focus only on YOUR interests and irrational feelings, the less people care about you at all.

The more these protesters pollute and vandalize college campuses, the less people hear or care about the. The more they do things like block highways, the less people hear and care about them. These strategies have been 100% asinine from the beginning.

Actually, the truth is that if they remained completely peaceful and quiet and focused only on protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians, that is when people would ignore them. It's only when they block highways and enter buildings that people pay attention. People like drama and controversy.

Right? Because that's exactly how people think. When they are blocked in traffic by pro-Palestinian protesters and late for work or picking up their kids or can't make it to the hospital as they're having a heart attack, their first thought is always gosh, maybe these protestors have a good point. We really should "globalize the intifada." Or when an engineering student can't get into the library to study, their first thought is always "We are all Hamas." Who needs an education?

Obviously MLK and Gandhi were idiots with their non-violent protests. Totally ignored. Got them nowhere.

You seem to be one of those people who only likes the sanitized sepia toned version of MLK.

The reason MLK’s nonviolent protests were successful is because people were shocked that police were deployed against them.

Now the students are being nonviolent and you are cheering the use of militarized police tactics on students.

I do not for a minute equate Bull Connor and Birmingham with the police removing the student Hamas enthusiasts that overtook Columbia. There is no equivalence, and to favorably compare the two demonstrates how completely delusional the protesters and their supporters are.

I promise you if MLK was still alive he’d be supporting the protesters.

I’m not sure I believe that.

I flat out don’t.

Because of the content of the protest? Meaning you think he would support Israel over Palestine? Or because of the methodology of the protests? Meaning you think he wouldn’t support encampments?

All of the above.

Ok. I think you are wrong on both counts.

I believe he would have been with the underdog - the Palestinians in this case. At best he may just not taken sides. This is speculative though and you may be right and really not worth debating unless someone has some of his writings on the issue.

On the encampments - I think if he believed strongly in the cause, it would very much be a part of a civil disobedience protest. Coming up with ways to make the people uncomfortable is certainly in keeping with non violent protest movements. I agree that nobody should be ok with harassment of others (and I seriously doubt he would be). But honestly I don’t think the camp out (conceptually) would be outside his or Gandhi’s techniques.

We can’t have MLK time travel to the present day to prove who is right, but I stand by my view that he was a Christian man of his time who supported nonviolent protest and I don’t think those core opinions would change.

I knew people who knew MLK as well as The Mahatma (Gandhi), and I am 99.99% sure they would have been broadly supportive of the protests.

So we are now down to I knew I knew? MLK expressed strong support for Israel when he was alive.

You seem to mistake “support for Israel” as a license for Israel to do literally whatever it wants to do.

Like essentially everything else in life, most sane people afford support on a conditional basis - as in, I support Israel as long as Israel upholds at least some minimum level of values that we expect of nations AND doesn’t engage in policies and actions that shock the conscience and starkly conflict with those values.

Once a nation so clearly violates those conditions, why should ANYONE support them with weapons, shield them from accountability at the U.N., etc.?

DP and thank you, PP, you have distilled how I feel and said it in a reasonable and rational way.

Many of us found the attacks by Hamas horrifying and unjustified. I recognize the right of Israel to exist. But I do not think razing Gaza is included in that right. I support those who protest the destruction of Gaza if they remain peaceful. Protesters who destroy property or say antisemitic things or similar no longer have my support. They should face consequences appropriate for their actions, but not violence or doxing.

Why is basic civility and nuanced thinking so hard to find.

+1

+2. Thanks to the PP for concisely summarizing my thoughts. I don't think we are the only ones that feel this way.

I agree that we’re not alone with these views, though it often feels that way. At times, I guess it’s too easy for well-intentioned people to retreat to the extreme margins rather than make a concession. I do it myself, too often.

The most difficult part of the discussion around this conflict, for me anyway, is reckoning with the fact that some of those on the extreme fringe have children who are being indoctrinated into the same dehumanizing way of thinking, on both sides. And the most frustrating part is that one side has been emboldened by America’s unconditional support and U.N. interference to the point where there is no incentive to find peace and there is also no consequence for obstructing peace.

Equivocating and looking for the "middle ground" in the face of a genocide isn't the enlightened flex you think it is. It makes you as guilty and despicable as those carrying out the violence themselves.

You left off the "/s".

People are dying. You're making stupid quips on the internet. Surely, you're better than this.

Ok fine. Tell us exactly how the president of Columbia is going to stop it. Because these idiots are making demands of the school. Not Hamas, not IDF, but the school.

Be specific as possible.

I dont think asking you to show a modicum of respect for the issue at hand means that I alone have to provide you with the all the answers. I suggested that you were better than making cute little quips about this while people's lives are at stake, but I see I was wrong.

People are upset. They are using the outlets and platforms they have to try to stop the carnage, and you mock them for it. All of you should be deeply ashamed of yourselves. How many times do the youth have to remind us of the difference between right and wrong, because we all have our heads too far up our asses to see that maybe this isn't as nuanced as we want to pretend.

People are being murdered— innocent people — to satisfy the blood lust of those with more money and power than them. Our money is funding it. And politicians are attempting to silence voices of dissent. And you morons are cheering it.

And Hamas murdered no innocent people? You are delusional. You and the youth you are championing all need to grow the he!! up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Hillary Clinton on Morning Joe:

“I have had many conversations with a lot of young people over the last many months. They don’t know very much at all about the history of the Middle East or frankly about history in many areas of the world, including in our own country,” Clinton tells MSNBC’s Morning Joe.

“With respect to the Middle East, they don’t know that under the bringing together of the Israelis and the Palestinians by my husband — then-Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, the then-head of the Palestinian Liberation Organization Yasser Arafat — an offer was made to the Palestinians for a state on 96% of the existing territory occupied by the Palestinians with 4% of Israel to be given to reach 100% of the amount of territory that was hoped for.”

“This offer was made and if Yasser Arafat had accepted it there would have been a Palestinian state now for about 24 years. It’s one of the great tragedies of history that he was unable to say, ‘yes,'”

“My husband has a book coming out later this year in which he talks about how Arafat kept saying that he intended to agree, he wanted to agree, but he was pretty sure he’d be killed because Sadat was killed by extremists when he made peace with Israel. Our dear, dear friend, Yitzhak Rabin was killed by a radical Israeli when he was pursuing the two-state solution.”

“This is a very important piece of history to understand if you’re going to take any kind of position regarding what’s going on right now,”

“Anybody who is teaching in a university or anyone who is putting content on social media should be held responsible for what they include and what they exclude. So much of what we’re seeing, particularly on TikTok, about what’s going on in the Middle East is willfully false, but it’s also incredibly slanted, pro-Hamas, anti-Israel.”

“It is not any place where anyone should go to get information about complex matters like what is going on there… People are on social media oftentimes to press an ideological, religious, financial or partisan political agenda. You don’t get the facts, you don’t get any kind of context.”

I believe the correct response here is, "Boomer says what?"

How do you walk without falling down? I hope you are not actually a parent raising children.

Well said, Hillary. She is totally right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From Hillary Clinton on Morning Joe:

“I have had many conversations with a lot of young people over the last many months. They don’t know very much at all about the history of the Middle East or frankly about history in many areas of the world, including in our own country,” Clinton tells MSNBC’s Morning Joe.

“With respect to the Middle East, they don’t know that under the bringing together of the Israelis and the Palestinians by my husband — then-Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, the then-head of the Palestinian Liberation Organization Yasser Arafat — an offer was made to the Palestinians for a state on 96% of the existing territory occupied by the Palestinians with 4% of Israel to be given to reach 100% of the amount of territory that was hoped for.”

“This offer was made and if Yasser Arafat had accepted it there would have been a Palestinian state now for about 24 years. It’s one of the great tragedies of history that he was unable to say, ‘yes,'”

“My husband has a book coming out later this year in which he talks about how Arafat kept saying that he intended to agree, he wanted to agree, but he was pretty sure he’d be killed because Sadat was killed by extremists when he made peace with Israel. Our dear, dear friend, Yitzhak Rabin was killed by a radical Israeli when he was pursuing the two-state solution.”

“This is a very important piece of history to understand if you’re going to take any kind of position regarding what’s going on right now,”

“Anybody who is teaching in a university or anyone who is putting content on social media should be held responsible for what they include and what they exclude. So much of what we’re seeing, particularly on TikTok, about what’s going on in the Middle East is willfully false, but it’s also incredibly slanted, pro-Hamas, anti-Israel.”

“It is not any place where anyone should go to get information about complex matters like what is going on there… People are on social media oftentimes to press an ideological, religious, financial or partisan political agenda. You don’t get the facts, you don’t get any kind of context.”

She is cherry picking facts. It didn’t do justice to the Palestinians. Maybe it was the best offer they could ever get. Maybe. But it was not a just offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Hillary Clinton on Morning Joe:

“I have had many conversations with a lot of young people over the last many months. They don’t know very much at all about the history of the Middle East or frankly about history in many areas of the world, including in our own country,” Clinton tells MSNBC’s Morning Joe.

“With respect to the Middle East, they don’t know that under the bringing together of the Israelis and the Palestinians by my husband — then-Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, the then-head of the Palestinian Liberation Organization Yasser Arafat — an offer was made to the Palestinians for a state on 96% of the existing territory occupied by the Palestinians with 4% of Israel to be given to reach 100% of the amount of territory that was hoped for.”

“This offer was made and if Yasser Arafat had accepted it there would have been a Palestinian state now for about 24 years. It’s one of the great tragedies of history that he was unable to say, ‘yes,'”

“My husband has a book coming out later this year in which he talks about how Arafat kept saying that he intended to agree, he wanted to agree, but he was pretty sure he’d be killed because Sadat was killed by extremists when he made peace with Israel. Our dear, dear friend, Yitzhak Rabin was killed by a radical Israeli when he was pursuing the two-state solution.”

“This is a very important piece of history to understand if you’re going to take any kind of position regarding what’s going on right now,”

“Anybody who is teaching in a university or anyone who is putting content on social media should be held responsible for what they include and what they exclude. So much of what we’re seeing, particularly on TikTok, about what’s going on in the Middle East is willfully false, but it’s also incredibly slanted, pro-Hamas, anti-Israel.”

“It is not any place where anyone should go to get information about complex matters like what is going on there… People are on social media oftentimes to press an ideological, religious, financial or partisan political agenda. You don’t get the facts, you don’t get any kind of context.”

I believe the correct response here is, "Boomer says what?"

Adult makes substantive point.

Child stuffs fingers in ears, blows raspberry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Hillary Clinton on Morning Joe:

“I have had many conversations with a lot of young people over the last many months. They don’t know very much at all about the history of the Middle East or frankly about history in many areas of the world, including in our own country,” Clinton tells MSNBC’s Morning Joe.

“With respect to the Middle East, they don’t know that under the bringing together of the Israelis and the Palestinians by my husband — then-Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, the then-head of the Palestinian Liberation Organization Yasser Arafat — an offer was made to the Palestinians for a state on 96% of the existing territory occupied by the Palestinians with 4% of Israel to be given to reach 100% of the amount of territory that was hoped for.”

“This offer was made and if Yasser Arafat had accepted it there would have been a Palestinian state now for about 24 years. It’s one of the great tragedies of history that he was unable to say, ‘yes,'”

“My husband has a book coming out later this year in which he talks about how Arafat kept saying that he intended to agree, he wanted to agree, but he was pretty sure he’d be killed because Sadat was killed by extremists when he made peace with Israel. Our dear, dear friend, Yitzhak Rabin was killed by a radical Israeli when he was pursuing the two-state solution.”

“This is a very important piece of history to understand if you’re going to take any kind of position regarding what’s going on right now,”

“Anybody who is teaching in a university or anyone who is putting content on social media should be held responsible for what they include and what they exclude. So much of what we’re seeing, particularly on TikTok, about what’s going on in the Middle East is willfully false, but it’s also incredibly slanted, pro-Hamas, anti-Israel.”

“It is not any place where anyone should go to get information about complex matters like what is going on there… People are on social media oftentimes to press an ideological, religious, financial or partisan political agenda. You don’t get the facts, you don’t get any kind of context.”

I believe the correct response here is, "Boomer says what?"

You and your panicked rush to ageism whenever you are out-argued and out-classed is so pathetic to watch. I feel sorry for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is truly hilarious. Reads like an Onion article. I hope these morons fail their exams and are expelled for their outrageously bad behavior.

From a May 1 letter from Columbia Law Review’s student editors:

The violence we witnessed last night has irrevocably shaken many of us on the Review. We know this to be the same for a majority of our classmates. Videos have circulated of police clad in riot gear mocking and brutalizing our students. The events of last night left us, and many of our peers, unable to focus and highly emotional during this tumultuous time. This only follows the growing distress that many of us have felt for months as the humanitarian crisis abroad continues to unfold, and as the blatant antisemitism, islamophobia, and racism on campus have escalated. Our response is not disproportionate to the outsized impact it has had on many of us in the community—a crowd of people that proudly represent their membership in a white supremacist, neo-fascist hate group were storming our campus just days ago.

We believe that canceling exams would be a proportionate response to the level of distress our peers have been feeling. In the alternative, making courses mandatory Pass/Fail would be the next most equitable solution.

So this is what happens when you admit a class of students to a University, a place where you are TESTED on your knowledge of material, without having them submit SAT/ACT scores. The truth is many of these kids are likely in over their head because they were put into a rigorous academic program that, for whatever reason, they were either not prepared for or not capable of succeeding in. They've resorting to the methods that allowed them to "cheat" the system in high school when Wokeness overtook the system and covid led to test-optional policies.

Enjoy your class of 2024-2028 hires from elite schools.

While I agree that asking for exams to be cancelled or making courses pass/fail is a bit ridiculous, I certainly wouldn't make the bizarre leap you have to suggesting that all new students at "elite" universities skated in because of "Wokeness" and Covid-related policies--or, as you suggest, that they can't handle the work when they get to these schools. My child went to UVA (not sure that's "elite") and did manage to take the SAT during Covid and submitted her scores. Many others did. You clearly have some weird prejudices about "elite" schools (guessing you or your kid didn't get in) or are just echoing the anti-higher ed propaganda that is being pushed by the Republican Party right now. (As if so many of the Republican leaders didn't themselves go to elite schools).

DP. UVA isn’t an “elite” school. And frankly, neither are the schools in question anymore.

What school is "elite" then? If none of them are elite, which ones are?

I think the point is that these Ivy and Ivy+ schools where the bulk of the protests have occurred were considered “elite” - but now that they’ve shown their true colors, many Americans will avoid them. Who wants to send their kids to indoctrination centers?

This is factually wrong. Here is an updated list of colleges that have had protests related to the Gaza issue. You will see that most are not Ivies or Ivy adjacent. The list includes overseas colleges as well. You want to believe they're all Ivies because that is what the right-wing narrative is telling you and is in line with the right-wing attack on institutions of higher learning.

List of pro-Palestine protests on university campuses in 2024
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_pro-Palestinian_protests_on_university_campuses_in_2024

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Hillary Clinton on Morning Joe:

“I have had many conversations with a lot of young people over the last many months. They don’t know very much at all about the history of the Middle East or frankly about history in many areas of the world, including in our own country,” Clinton tells MSNBC’s Morning Joe.

“With respect to the Middle East, they don’t know that under the bringing together of the Israelis and the Palestinians by my husband — then-Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, the then-head of the Palestinian Liberation Organization Yasser Arafat — an offer was made to the Palestinians for a state on 96% of the existing territory occupied by the Palestinians with 4% of Israel to be given to reach 100% of the amount of territory that was hoped for.”

“This offer was made and if Yasser Arafat had accepted it there would have been a Palestinian state now for about 24 years. It’s one of the great tragedies of history that he was unable to say, ‘yes,'”

“My husband has a book coming out later this year in which he talks about how Arafat kept saying that he intended to agree, he wanted to agree, but he was pretty sure he’d be killed because Sadat was killed by extremists when he made peace with Israel. Our dear, dear friend, Yitzhak Rabin was killed by a radical Israeli when he was pursuing the two-state solution.”

“This is a very important piece of history to understand if you’re going to take any kind of position regarding what’s going on right now,”

“Anybody who is teaching in a university or anyone who is putting content on social media should be held responsible for what they include and what they exclude. So much of what we’re seeing, particularly on TikTok, about what’s going on in the Middle East is willfully false, but it’s also incredibly slanted, pro-Hamas, anti-Israel.”

“It is not any place where anyone should go to get information about complex matters like what is going on there… People are on social media oftentimes to press an ideological, religious, financial or partisan political agenda. You don’t get the facts, you don’t get any kind of context.”

She is cherry picking facts. It didn’t do justice to the Palestinians. Maybe it was the best offer they could ever get. Maybe. But it was not a just offer.

no. palestinians chose honor over security and self determination. this is straight out of a middle east play book. no compromises because your enemy will take you for that and all you’ve got. read robert baer’s book on his time in the ME. this is also why israel does what it does. no compromises. why else do you think that region has been at war with itself the last 70 years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Hillary Clinton on Morning Joe:

“I have had many conversations with a lot of young people over the last many months. They don’t know very much at all about the history of the Middle East or frankly about history in many areas of the world, including in our own country,” Clinton tells MSNBC’s Morning Joe.

“With respect to the Middle East, they don’t know that under the bringing together of the Israelis and the Palestinians by my husband — then-Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak, the then-head of the Palestinian Liberation Organization Yasser Arafat — an offer was made to the Palestinians for a state on 96% of the existing territory occupied by the Palestinians with 4% of Israel to be given to reach 100% of the amount of territory that was hoped for.”

“This offer was made and if Yasser Arafat had accepted it there would have been a Palestinian state now for about 24 years. It’s one of the great tragedies of history that he was unable to say, ‘yes,'”

“My husband has a book coming out later this year in which he talks about how Arafat kept saying that he intended to agree, he wanted to agree, but he was pretty sure he’d be killed because Sadat was killed by extremists when he made peace with Israel. Our dear, dear friend, Yitzhak Rabin was killed by a radical Israeli when he was pursuing the two-state solution.”

“This is a very important piece of history to understand if you’re going to take any kind of position regarding what’s going on right now,”

“Anybody who is teaching in a university or anyone who is putting content on social media should be held responsible for what they include and what they exclude. So much of what we’re seeing, particularly on TikTok, about what’s going on in the Middle East is willfully false, but it’s also incredibly slanted, pro-Hamas, anti-Israel.”

“It is not any place where anyone should go to get information about complex matters like what is going on there… People are on social media oftentimes to press an ideological, religious, financial or partisan political agenda. You don’t get the facts, you don’t get any kind of context.”

She is cherry picking facts. It didn’t do justice to the Palestinians. Maybe it was the best offer they could ever get. Maybe. But it was not a just offer.

no. palestinians chose honor over security and self determination. this is straight out of a middle east play book. no compromises because your enemy will take you for that and all you’ve got. read robert baer’s book on his time in the ME. this is also why israel does what it does. no compromises. why else do you think that region has been at war with itself the last 70 years?

And every year before that since time immemorial.