Physicians Assistant yelling “HELP ME” while stealing a CitiBike ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This has honestly turned into the dumbest story. Two people arguing over a bike, probably both in the wrong, and here we are almost 200 pages later arguing about it.

They both handled the bike dispute poorly, but only one of them filmed it and released it in the internet. Soooo … one of them was way worse.

You forgot that she was yelling "HELP ME HELP ME" as if she was in danger when it turns out she put herself in that position. Yea, the kid was being a dick by hoarding the bike and I would have been annoyed with him too, but she could have handled the interaction gracefully. They are both in the wrong.

I would feel threatened if someone shoved my bike into the dock and yelled lies at me about it being their bike.

So would I but now we have more information and this isn't what happened.

It’s exactly what happened. It’s what the video shows, the receipts substantiate, and what he said in *his own interview.*

There is only ONE fact actually in dispute here: whether (as he says) the boy was holding the bike and she “pushed” onto it despite him telling her he still wanted to rent it later; or whether (as she says) the bike was unattended.

Even if his version is true, that still does not support the false claims that she was “stealing” his bike and faking her distress to intentionally endanger him.

Unfortunately this episode has for me given the knowledge that actual racism/sexism exists against white women among some black people. The knee jerk reaction to a white person was to assume she is evil and intends harm; and moreover that white women are fundamentally evil. It is pretty disturbing.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also the whole “WhItE TeArS” thing is so gross to me. It’s NYC, 2023. The police don’t give a single solitary F about 2 people bickering over a rental bike. The police in any major city wouldn’t get involved. They don’t get involved when people are assaulted on public transit and when people are openly using and selling drugs and running out of stores with bags full of stolen merchandise - why would they, presumably, beat up someone over a disputed rental bike? These people want to be victims sooooo bad.

And yet eric garner died selling single cigarettes. "These people" ? You're disgusting. Police can and do overreact (yes, even in NYC) ALL THE TIME. They wouldn't be reacting to the BIKE, they'd be reacting to the "poor delicate overworked white lady" who "rightfully got" the bike. Please.

Are you actually mocking a visibly pregnant woman who's just come off a 12-hour shift as a "poor delicate overworked white lady"? You can't have children of your own.

And how, exactly, is her "whiteness" relevant? You added that to racialize it. You're gross.

NO I was mocking the PP who called her overworked.

But OF COURSE IT'S RACIALIZED. Me mentioning her race didn't make it so. It EXISTS. White women cry and get black men killed.

And there it is. ANY white woman who cries in public--even after coming off a 12-hour shift while pregnant just to be mocked by a gang of guys hoarding the last e-bike--must be trying to get black men killed. There was no acceptable response for her, only to quietly back down and either take one of the non-electric bikes or walk home.

Do you know what I think you are?

It was not a "gang of guys" --- nice dog whistle, by the way. It was a couple of KIDS. And YES - of course the acceptable adult response would be to take a non electric bike. Why is it the children who are supposed to be more mature than the adult? Because you all baby white woman and vilify black children, calling them a gang.

TF. Are you listening to yourself? He's 17 about to graduate from high school, so he's almost 18. Not a "child" by anyone's definition. He's been scamming Citibike all day, including hoarding this bike for 50 minutes at the same station without actually using it himself and abusing the Angel Bikes program. He and his friends loudly mock the PA and called her baby r****d. He and his friends filmed her and put the video online.

And you think he's a poor widdle child with zero agency. And that the pregnant woman should take the regular bike--have you ever been pregnant?

White boys who are 17 are ROUTINELY called boys while black kids are held to a different standard. And while they may have been behaving immaturely, that doesn't make it ok for an adult to cry and call the cops because they were mean to her.

And yes, I have been a tired pregnant white woman three times but it never occurred to me to cry and call the police on children who were acting dumb. But then, I am not a racist.

She didn't call the cops!!! Where are you getting this? Hasn't this been explained to death?

omg so sue me I didn't read the whole 200 page thread. BUT she absolutely did not be needing to cry "HELP ME" as if they were going to hurt her. She could have just ... LEFT. Them being dicks doesn't mean she was somehow kidnapped.

She had to get home. Why didn't these young men leave? They were clearly abusing the bike share system. I hope their memberships have been terminated.

I wonder if CitiBike is having conversations about this whole thing. The truth is the boys are using the system in a way that is bad for CitiBike -- bike hoarding is bad for the system and discourages people from relying on bikeshare because it makes it less reliable. Plus the idea that people are camping on docked bikes and then bullying people out of renting them -- that's literally just money out of CitiBike's pocket, money that could go into stuff like rebalancing bikes and buying more e-bikes, which no doubt they want to do.

Basically, no way CitiBike can come out and endorse what the boys were doing -- it runs counter to their whole model and I'm certain CitiBike views their behavior as a problem.

But if they come out and condemn the boys or even just say, more neutrally, that users are not supposed to hoard bikes and that if a bike is docked, it is available for use to whoever is ready to rent it next, they will be called racist and boycotted.

It's a no-win for them.

My lawyer gut check is they won’t do anything that could get them any more embedded in the litigation than they already are. If they change the policies, Marino will surely try to get a witness to say why, and it will immediately be construed as racist reasons.

I’m sure they are well aware of cases of bike-camping and people taking serial rides to stay under the cap. It’s probably not a big enough issue to be worth changing the policy.

Maybe. It depends on how common it is. My sense is that the introduction of e-bikes has made it much worse because there aren't enough e-bikes in the system so it's made bike hoarding a bigger issue. Perhaps they address that by simply getting more e-bikes.

I do think this whole incident illustrates who bike-camping (docking a bike but claiming it's yours) leads to conflict and could potentially lead to violence. There have been issues in the past where people riding bikes are attacked and have their bikes stolen, and the people on the bikes will often fight back aggressively because if they don't, CitiBike will charge them for the missing bike (and it's a lot). So I do actually think CitiBike must be looking into liability issues with regards to bike-camping because if they do nothing and it escalates...

Imagine if this incident had resulted in either (1) the boys shove the woman hard enough that she falls to the ground and has a miscarriage, or (2) the woman's cries for help do indeed bring either a racist cop or a racist vigilante running and he shoots/attacks/harms one of the boys. No sane person wants either of those outcomes. It would be good for CitiBike to look for ways to prevent it by adopting policies that make these kinds of conflicts less likely.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also the whole “WhItE TeArS” thing is so gross to me. It’s NYC, 2023. The police don’t give a single solitary F about 2 people bickering over a rental bike. The police in any major city wouldn’t get involved. They don’t get involved when people are assaulted on public transit and when people are openly using and selling drugs and running out of stores with bags full of stolen merchandise - why would they, presumably, beat up someone over a disputed rental bike? These people want to be victims sooooo bad.

And yet eric garner died selling single cigarettes. "These people" ? You're disgusting. Police can and do overreact (yes, even in NYC) ALL THE TIME. They wouldn't be reacting to the BIKE, they'd be reacting to the "poor delicate overworked white lady" who "rightfully got" the bike. Please.

Are you actually mocking a visibly pregnant woman who's just come off a 12-hour shift as a "poor delicate overworked white lady"? You can't have children of your own.

And how, exactly, is her "whiteness" relevant? You added that to racialize it. You're gross.

NO I was mocking the PP who called her overworked.

But OF COURSE IT'S RACIALIZED. Me mentioning her race didn't make it so. It EXISTS. White women cry and get black men killed.

And there it is. ANY white woman who cries in public--even after coming off a 12-hour shift while pregnant just to be mocked by a gang of guys hoarding the last e-bike--must be trying to get black men killed. There was no acceptable response for her, only to quietly back down and either take one of the non-electric bikes or walk home.

Do you know what I think you are?

It was not a "gang of guys" --- nice dog whistle, by the way. It was a couple of KIDS. And YES - of course the acceptable adult response would be to take a non electric bike. Why is it the children who are supposed to be more mature than the adult? Because you all baby white woman and vilify black children, calling them a gang.

TF. Are you listening to yourself? He's 17 about to graduate from high school, so he's almost 18. Not a "child" by anyone's definition. He's been scamming Citibike all day, including hoarding this bike for 50 minutes at the same station without actually using it himself and abusing the Angel Bikes program. He and his friends loudly mock the PA and called her baby r****d. He and his friends filmed her and put the video online.

And you think he's a poor widdle child with zero agency. And that the pregnant woman should take the regular bike--have you ever been pregnant?

White boys who are 17 are ROUTINELY called boys while black kids are held to a different standard. And while they may have been behaving immaturely, that doesn't make it ok for an adult to cry and call the cops because they were mean to her.

And yes, I have been a tired pregnant white woman three times but it never occurred to me to cry and call the police on children who were acting dumb. But then, I am not a racist.

These are young men who are graduating high school right now. They are old enough to be held accountable for their behavior, just like anyone else. She was surrounded by multiple men blocking her from leaving. What would YOU do if you were in that situation? She did not know if they were harmless or not (on the video they appeared to be but from her viewpoint at that moment she felt threatened). Help me is the appropriate response to it. She should just do what?

You even bother to ask? PP was responding to me asking the exact same question. Her response was "they are just children and she should take the regular bike." Gross.

- a progressive

They aren't children if they graduated high school. You cannot say they are kids for one situation and men for another.

Either way, they should come out and apologize for their actions, she should apologize for hers and be done with it. This has nothing to do with race. The men behaved very poorly and should know better than to gang up on a pregnant woman but if they said they were using it, even though they were in the wrong, you don't just take the bike either.

I see so many referring to them as men. Just a few weeks ago the headlines about the rock throwing incident referred to the people who murdered someone as teens.
(3 Colorado Teens Charged With Murder in Fatal Rock-Throwing Incident) I was shocked to see they were 18. Meanwhile, these teen boys are men.

https://www.npr.org/2014/03/19/291405871/consequences-when-african-american-boys-are-seen-as-older

Nobody knew how old they were until the interview came out yesterday. When this video first came out it was unclear if they were minors or not. To me it seemed like immature behavior so I guessed from 17-20 but wouldn’t have been surprised at 22-23. So I called them “boys”
to give them the benefit of the doubt - but then was told thay was racist - and now am told “men” is also racist. 🤷‍♀️

This is the kind of cr*p that rightfully gets labeled woketastic.

Everyone younger than the age of majority counts as a kid, sorry folks.

So my son is a "child" at 17 years and 11 months for the purposes of moral accountability for anything he does? Good to know. Although I won't be telling my son, because I still believe 17-year-olds are morally responsible for their actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also the whole “WhItE TeArS” thing is so gross to me. It’s NYC, 2023. The police don’t give a single solitary F about 2 people bickering over a rental bike. The police in any major city wouldn’t get involved. They don’t get involved when people are assaulted on public transit and when people are openly using and selling drugs and running out of stores with bags full of stolen merchandise - why would they, presumably, beat up someone over a disputed rental bike? These people want to be victims sooooo bad.

And yet eric garner died selling single cigarettes. "These people" ? You're disgusting. Police can and do overreact (yes, even in NYC) ALL THE TIME. They wouldn't be reacting to the BIKE, they'd be reacting to the "poor delicate overworked white lady" who "rightfully got" the bike. Please.

If kids/men/boys are hoarding bikes why would anyone else bother? Just cancel your membership, find alternate means of transportation, then then Citi Bikes goes out of business. Sounds like a great business model if they just want to encourage a broken system easily abused.

Are you actually mocking a visibly pregnant woman who's just come off a 12-hour shift as a "poor delicate overworked white lady"? You can't have children of your own.

And how, exactly, is her "whiteness" relevant? You added that to racialize it. You're gross.

NO I was mocking the PP who called her overworked.

But OF COURSE IT'S RACIALIZED. Me mentioning her race didn't make it so. It EXISTS. White women cry and get black men killed.

And there it is. ANY white woman who cries in public--even after coming off a 12-hour shift while pregnant just to be mocked by a gang of guys hoarding the last e-bike--must be trying to get black men killed. There was no acceptable response for her, only to quietly back down and either take one of the non-electric bikes or walk home.

Do you know what I think you are?

It was not a "gang of guys" --- nice dog whistle, by the way. It was a couple of KIDS. And YES - of course the acceptable adult response would be to take a non electric bike. Why is it the children who are supposed to be more mature than the adult? Because you all baby white woman and vilify black children, calling them a gang.

TF. Are you listening to yourself? He's 17 about to graduate from high school, so he's almost 18. Not a "child" by anyone's definition. He's been scamming Citibike all day, including hoarding this bike for 50 minutes at the same station without actually using it himself and abusing the Angel Bikes program. He and his friends loudly mock the PA and called her baby r****d. He and his friends filmed her and put the video online.

And you think he's a poor widdle child with zero agency. And that the pregnant woman should take the regular bike--have you ever been pregnant?

White boys who are 17 are ROUTINELY called boys while black kids are held to a different standard. And while they may have been behaving immaturely, that doesn't make it ok for an adult to cry and call the cops because they were mean to her.

And yes, I have been a tired pregnant white woman three times but it never occurred to me to cry and call the police on children who were acting dumb. But then, I am not a racist.

She didn't call the cops!!! Where are you getting this? Hasn't this been explained to death?

omg so sue me I didn't read the whole 200 page thread. BUT she absolutely did not be needing to cry "HELP ME" as if they were going to hurt her. She could have just ... LEFT. Them being dicks doesn't mean she was somehow kidnapped.

She had to get home. Why didn't these young men leave? They were clearly abusing the bike share system. I hope their memberships have been terminated.

I wonder if CitiBike is having conversations about this whole thing. The truth is the boys are using the system in a way that is bad for CitiBike -- bike hoarding is bad for the system and discourages people from relying on bikeshare because it makes it less reliable. Plus the idea that people are camping on docked bikes and then bullying people out of renting them -- that's literally just money out of CitiBike's pocket, money that could go into stuff like rebalancing bikes and buying more e-bikes, which no doubt they want to do.

Basically, no way CitiBike can come out and endorse what the boys were doing -- it runs counter to their whole model and I'm certain CitiBike views their behavior as a problem.

But if they come out and condemn the boys or even just say, more neutrally, that users are not supposed to hoard bikes and that if a bike is docked, it is available for use to whoever is ready to rent it next, they will be called racist and boycotted.

It's a no-win for them.

My lawyer gut check is they won’t do anything that could get them any more embedded in the litigation than they already are. If they change the policies, Marino will surely try to get a witness to say why, and it will immediately be construed as racist reasons.

I’m sure they are well aware of cases of bike-camping and people taking serial rides to stay under the cap. It’s probably not a big enough issue to be worth changing the policy.

Maybe. It depends on how common it is. My sense is that the introduction of e-bikes has made it much worse because there aren't enough e-bikes in the system so it's made bike hoarding a bigger issue. Perhaps they address that by simply getting more e-bikes.

I do think this whole incident illustrates who bike-camping (docking a bike but claiming it's yours) leads to conflict and could potentially lead to violence. There have been issues in the past where people riding bikes are attacked and have their bikes stolen, and the people on the bikes will often fight back aggressively because if they don't, CitiBike will charge them for the missing bike (and it's a lot). So I do actually think CitiBike must be looking into liability issues with regards to bike-camping because if they do nothing and it escalates...

Imagine if this incident had resulted in either (1) the boys shove the woman hard enough that she falls to the ground and has a miscarriage, or (2) the woman's cries for help do indeed bring either a racist cop or a racist vigilante running and he shoots/attacks/harms one of the boys. No sane person wants either of those outcomes. It would be good for CitiBike to look for ways to prevent it by adopting policies that make these kinds of conflicts less likely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also the whole “WhItE TeArS” thing is so gross to me. It’s NYC, 2023. The police don’t give a single solitary F about 2 people bickering over a rental bike. The police in any major city wouldn’t get involved. They don’t get involved when people are assaulted on public transit and when people are openly using and selling drugs and running out of stores with bags full of stolen merchandise - why would they, presumably, beat up someone over a disputed rental bike? These people want to be victims sooooo bad.

And yet eric garner died selling single cigarettes. "These people" ? You're disgusting. Police can and do overreact (yes, even in NYC) ALL THE TIME. They wouldn't be reacting to the BIKE, they'd be reacting to the "poor delicate overworked white lady" who "rightfully got" the bike. Please.

If kids/men/boys are hoarding bikes why would anyone else bother? Just cancel your membership, find alternate means of transportation, then then Citi Bikes goes out of business. Sounds like a great business model if they just want to encourage a broken system easily abused.

Are you actually mocking a visibly pregnant woman who's just come off a 12-hour shift as a "poor delicate overworked white lady"? You can't have children of your own.

And how, exactly, is her "whiteness" relevant? You added that to racialize it. You're gross.

NO I was mocking the PP who called her overworked.

But OF COURSE IT'S RACIALIZED. Me mentioning her race didn't make it so. It EXISTS. White women cry and get black men killed.

And there it is. ANY white woman who cries in public--even after coming off a 12-hour shift while pregnant just to be mocked by a gang of guys hoarding the last e-bike--must be trying to get black men killed. There was no acceptable response for her, only to quietly back down and either take one of the non-electric bikes or walk home.

Do you know what I think you are?

It was not a "gang of guys" --- nice dog whistle, by the way. It was a couple of KIDS. And YES - of course the acceptable adult response would be to take a non electric bike. Why is it the children who are supposed to be more mature than the adult? Because you all baby white woman and vilify black children, calling them a gang.

TF. Are you listening to yourself? He's 17 about to graduate from high school, so he's almost 18. Not a "child" by anyone's definition. He's been scamming Citibike all day, including hoarding this bike for 50 minutes at the same station without actually using it himself and abusing the Angel Bikes program. He and his friends loudly mock the PA and called her baby r****d. He and his friends filmed her and put the video online.

And you think he's a poor widdle child with zero agency. And that the pregnant woman should take the regular bike--have you ever been pregnant?

White boys who are 17 are ROUTINELY called boys while black kids are held to a different standard. And while they may have been behaving immaturely, that doesn't make it ok for an adult to cry and call the cops because they were mean to her.

And yes, I have been a tired pregnant white woman three times but it never occurred to me to cry and call the police on children who were acting dumb. But then, I am not a racist.

She didn't call the cops!!! Where are you getting this? Hasn't this been explained to death?

omg so sue me I didn't read the whole 200 page thread. BUT she absolutely did not be needing to cry "HELP ME" as if they were going to hurt her. She could have just ... LEFT. Them being dicks doesn't mean she was somehow kidnapped.

She had to get home. Why didn't these young men leave? They were clearly abusing the bike share system. I hope their memberships have been terminated.

I wonder if CitiBike is having conversations about this whole thing. The truth is the boys are using the system in a way that is bad for CitiBike -- bike hoarding is bad for the system and discourages people from relying on bikeshare because it makes it less reliable. Plus the idea that people are camping on docked bikes and then bullying people out of renting them -- that's literally just money out of CitiBike's pocket, money that could go into stuff like rebalancing bikes and buying more e-bikes, which no doubt they want to do.

Basically, no way CitiBike can come out and endorse what the boys were doing -- it runs counter to their whole model and I'm certain CitiBike views their behavior as a problem.

But if they come out and condemn the boys or even just say, more neutrally, that users are not supposed to hoard bikes and that if a bike is docked, it is available for use to whoever is ready to rent it next, they will be called racist and boycotted.

It's a no-win for them.

My lawyer gut check is they won’t do anything that could get them any more embedded in the litigation than they already are. If they change the policies, Marino will surely try to get a witness to say why, and it will immediately be construed as racist reasons.

I’m sure they are well aware of cases of bike-camping and people taking serial rides to stay under the cap. It’s probably not a big enough issue to be worth changing the policy.

Maybe. It depends on how common it is. My sense is that the introduction of e-bikes has made it much worse because there aren't enough e-bikes in the system so it's made bike hoarding a bigger issue. Perhaps they address that by simply getting more e-bikes.

I do think this whole incident illustrates who bike-camping (docking a bike but claiming it's yours) leads to conflict and could potentially lead to violence. There have been issues in the past where people riding bikes are attacked and have their bikes stolen, and the people on the bikes will often fight back aggressively because if they don't, CitiBike will charge them for the missing bike (and it's a lot). So I do actually think CitiBike must be looking into liability issues with regards to bike-camping because if they do nothing and it escalates...

Imagine if this incident had resulted in either (1) the boys shove the woman hard enough that she falls to the ground and has a miscarriage, or (2) the woman's cries for help do indeed bring either a racist cop or a racist vigilante running and he shoots/attacks/harms one of the boys. No sane person wants either of those outcomes. It would be good for CitiBike to look for ways to prevent it by adopting policies that make these kinds of conflicts less likely.

If kids/men/boys are hoarding bikes why would anyone else bother? Just cancel your membership, find alternate means of transportation, then then Citi Bikes goes out of business. Sounds like a great business model if they just want to encourage a broken system easily abused.

[Anonymous]

Bile Angels needs to be changed to Bike Hoarders

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also the whole “WhItE TeArS” thing is so gross to me. It’s NYC, 2023. The police don’t give a single solitary F about 2 people bickering over a rental bike. The police in any major city wouldn’t get involved. They don’t get involved when people are assaulted on public transit and when people are openly using and selling drugs and running out of stores with bags full of stolen merchandise - why would they, presumably, beat up someone over a disputed rental bike? These people want to be victims sooooo bad.

And yet eric garner died selling single cigarettes. "These people" ? You're disgusting. Police can and do overreact (yes, even in NYC) ALL THE TIME. They wouldn't be reacting to the BIKE, they'd be reacting to the "poor delicate overworked white lady" who "rightfully got" the bike. Please.

Are you actually mocking a visibly pregnant woman who's just come off a 12-hour shift as a "poor delicate overworked white lady"? You can't have children of your own.

And how, exactly, is her "whiteness" relevant? You added that to racialize it. You're gross.

NO I was mocking the PP who called her overworked.

But OF COURSE IT'S RACIALIZED. Me mentioning her race didn't make it so. It EXISTS. White women cry and get black men killed.

And there it is. ANY white woman who cries in public--even after coming off a 12-hour shift while pregnant just to be mocked by a gang of guys hoarding the last e-bike--must be trying to get black men killed. There was no acceptable response for her, only to quietly back down and either take one of the non-electric bikes or walk home.

Do you know what I think you are?

It was not a "gang of guys" --- nice dog whistle, by the way. It was a couple of KIDS. And YES - of course the acceptable adult response would be to take a non electric bike. Why is it the children who are supposed to be more mature than the adult? Because you all baby white woman and vilify black children, calling them a gang.

TF. Are you listening to yourself? He's 17 about to graduate from high school, so he's almost 18. Not a "child" by anyone's definition. He's been scamming Citibike all day, including hoarding this bike for 50 minutes at the same station without actually using it himself and abusing the Angel Bikes program. He and his friends loudly mock the PA and called her baby r****d. He and his friends filmed her and put the video online.

And you think he's a poor widdle child with zero agency. And that the pregnant woman should take the regular bike--have you ever been pregnant?

White boys who are 17 are ROUTINELY called boys while black kids are held to a different standard. And while they may have been behaving immaturely, that doesn't make it ok for an adult to cry and call the cops because they were mean to her.

And yes, I have been a tired pregnant white woman three times but it never occurred to me to cry and call the police on children who were acting dumb. But then, I am not a racist.

She didn't call the cops!!! Where are you getting this? Hasn't this been explained to death?

omg so sue me I didn't read the whole 200 page thread. BUT she absolutely did not be needing to cry "HELP ME" as if they were going to hurt her. She could have just ... LEFT. Them being dicks doesn't mean she was somehow kidnapped.

She had to get home. Why didn't these young men leave? They were clearly abusing the bike share system. I hope their memberships have been terminated.

I wonder if CitiBike is having conversations about this whole thing. The truth is the boys are using the system in a way that is bad for CitiBike -- bike hoarding is bad for the system and discourages people from relying on bikeshare because it makes it less reliable. Plus the idea that people are camping on docked bikes and then bullying people out of renting them -- that's literally just money out of CitiBike's pocket, money that could go into stuff like rebalancing bikes and buying more e-bikes, which no doubt they want to do.

Basically, no way CitiBike can come out and endorse what the boys were doing -- it runs counter to their whole model and I'm certain CitiBike views their behavior as a problem.

But if they come out and condemn the boys or even just say, more neutrally, that users are not supposed to hoard bikes and that if a bike is docked, it is available for use to whoever is ready to rent it next, they will be called racist and boycotted.

It's a no-win for them.

My lawyer gut check is they won’t do anything that could get them any more embedded in the litigation than they already are. If they change the policies, Marino will surely try to get a witness to say why, and it will immediately be construed as racist reasons.

Marino has said they won't pursue the teens (underscoring pp's point about how she did offer grace, but the teens took the grace and abused it to go after her on bigger platforms). But could this come up as "context" around her innocence? As in, she knew they were hoarding or scamming and wasn't going to let that stop her from going home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also the whole “WhItE TeArS” thing is so gross to me. It’s NYC, 2023. The police don’t give a single solitary F about 2 people bickering over a rental bike. The police in any major city wouldn’t get involved. They don’t get involved when people are assaulted on public transit and when people are openly using and selling drugs and running out of stores with bags full of stolen merchandise - why would they, presumably, beat up someone over a disputed rental bike? These people want to be victims sooooo bad.

And yet eric garner died selling single cigarettes. "These people" ? You're disgusting. Police can and do overreact (yes, even in NYC) ALL THE TIME. They wouldn't be reacting to the BIKE, they'd be reacting to the "poor delicate overworked white lady" who "rightfully got" the bike. Please.

Are you actually mocking a visibly pregnant woman who's just come off a 12-hour shift as a "poor delicate overworked white lady"? You can't have children of your own.

And how, exactly, is her "whiteness" relevant? You added that to racialize it. You're gross.

NO I was mocking the PP who called her overworked.

But OF COURSE IT'S RACIALIZED. Me mentioning her race didn't make it so. It EXISTS. White women cry and get black men killed.

And there it is. ANY white woman who cries in public--even after coming off a 12-hour shift while pregnant just to be mocked by a gang of guys hoarding the last e-bike--must be trying to get black men killed. There was no acceptable response for her, only to quietly back down and either take one of the non-electric bikes or walk home.

Do you know what I think you are?

It was not a "gang of guys" --- nice dog whistle, by the way. It was a couple of KIDS. And YES - of course the acceptable adult response would be to take a non electric bike. Why is it the children who are supposed to be more mature than the adult? Because you all baby white woman and vilify black children, calling them a gang.

TF. Are you listening to yourself? He's 17 about to graduate from high school, so he's almost 18. Not a "child" by anyone's definition. He's been scamming Citibike all day, including hoarding this bike for 50 minutes at the same station without actually using it himself and abusing the Angel Bikes program. He and his friends loudly mock the PA and called her baby r****d. He and his friends filmed her and put the video online.

And you think he's a poor widdle child with zero agency. And that the pregnant woman should take the regular bike--have you ever been pregnant?

White boys who are 17 are ROUTINELY called boys while black kids are held to a different standard. And while they may have been behaving immaturely, that doesn't make it ok for an adult to cry and call the cops because they were mean to her.

And yes, I have been a tired pregnant white woman three times but it never occurred to me to cry and call the police on children who were acting dumb. But then, I am not a racist.

These are young men who are graduating high school right now. They are old enough to be held accountable for their behavior, just like anyone else. She was surrounded by multiple men blocking her from leaving. What would YOU do if you were in that situation? She did not know if they were harmless or not (on the video they appeared to be but from her viewpoint at that moment she felt threatened). Help me is the appropriate response to it. She should just do what?

You even bother to ask? PP was responding to me asking the exact same question. Her response was "they are just children and she should take the regular bike." Gross.

- a progressive

They aren't children if they graduated high school. You cannot say they are kids for one situation and men for another.

Either way, they should come out and apologize for their actions, she should apologize for hers and be done with it. This has nothing to do with race. The men behaved very poorly and should know better than to gang up on a pregnant woman but if they said they were using it, even though they were in the wrong, you don't just take the bike either.

I see so many referring to them as men. Just a few weeks ago the headlines about the rock throwing incident referred to the people who murdered someone as teens.
(3 Colorado Teens Charged With Murder in Fatal Rock-Throwing Incident) I was shocked to see they were 18. Meanwhile, these teen boys are men.

https://www.npr.org/2014/03/19/291405871/consequences-when-african-american-boys-are-seen-as-older

Nobody knew how old they were until the interview came out yesterday. When this video first came out it was unclear if they were minors or not. To me it seemed like immature behavior so I guessed from 17-20 but wouldn’t have been surprised at 22-23. So I called them “boys”
to give them the benefit of the doubt - but then was told thay was racist - and now am told “men” is also racist. 🤷‍♀️

This is the kind of cr*p that rightfully gets labeled woketastic.

Everyone younger than the age of majority counts as a kid, sorry folks.

So my son is a "child" at 17 years and 11 months for the purposes of moral accountability for anything he does? Good to know. Although I won't be telling my son, because I still believe 17-year-olds are morally responsible for their actions.

Yes, your 17-year-old counts as a child. Not in terms of “moral accountability”, but in terms of legal age, which is what we are discussing. And if your imaginary 17-year-old white son had done something wrong, you’d be calling him a child and you know it, so cut the crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also the whole “WhItE TeArS” thing is so gross to me. It’s NYC, 2023. The police don’t give a single solitary F about 2 people bickering over a rental bike. The police in any major city wouldn’t get involved. They don’t get involved when people are assaulted on public transit and when people are openly using and selling drugs and running out of stores with bags full of stolen merchandise - why would they, presumably, beat up someone over a disputed rental bike? These people want to be victims sooooo bad.

And yet eric garner died selling single cigarettes. "These people" ? You're disgusting. Police can and do overreact (yes, even in NYC) ALL THE TIME. They wouldn't be reacting to the BIKE, they'd be reacting to the "poor delicate overworked white lady" who "rightfully got" the bike. Please.

Are you actually mocking a visibly pregnant woman who's just come off a 12-hour shift as a "poor delicate overworked white lady"? You can't have children of your own.

And how, exactly, is her "whiteness" relevant? You added that to racialize it. You're gross.

NO I was mocking the PP who called her overworked.

But OF COURSE IT'S RACIALIZED. Me mentioning her race didn't make it so. It EXISTS. White women cry and get black men killed.

And there it is. ANY white woman who cries in public--even after coming off a 12-hour shift while pregnant just to be mocked by a gang of guys hoarding the last e-bike--must be trying to get black men killed. There was no acceptable response for her, only to quietly back down and either take one of the non-electric bikes or walk home.

Do you know what I think you are?

It was not a "gang of guys" --- nice dog whistle, by the way. It was a couple of KIDS. And YES - of course the acceptable adult response would be to take a non electric bike. Why is it the children who are supposed to be more mature than the adult? Because you all baby white woman and vilify black children, calling them a gang.

TF. Are you listening to yourself? He's 17 about to graduate from high school, so he's almost 18. Not a "child" by anyone's definition. He's been scamming Citibike all day, including hoarding this bike for 50 minutes at the same station without actually using it himself and abusing the Angel Bikes program. He and his friends loudly mock the PA and called her baby r****d. He and his friends filmed her and put the video online.

And you think he's a poor widdle child with zero agency. And that the pregnant woman should take the regular bike--have you ever been pregnant?

White boys who are 17 are ROUTINELY called boys while black kids are held to a different standard. And while they may have been behaving immaturely, that doesn't make it ok for an adult to cry and call the cops because they were mean to her.

And yes, I have been a tired pregnant white woman three times but it never occurred to me to cry and call the police on children who were acting dumb. But then, I am not a racist.

She didn't call the cops!!! Where are you getting this? Hasn't this been explained to death?

omg so sue me I didn't read the whole 200 page thread. BUT she absolutely did not be needing to cry "HELP ME" as if they were going to hurt her. She could have just ... LEFT. Them being dicks doesn't mean she was somehow kidnapped.

She had to get home. Why didn't these young men leave? They were clearly abusing the bike share system. I hope their memberships have been terminated.

I wonder if CitiBike is having conversations about this whole thing. The truth is the boys are using the system in a way that is bad for CitiBike -- bike hoarding is bad for the system and discourages people from relying on bikeshare because it makes it less reliable. Plus the idea that people are camping on docked bikes and then bullying people out of renting them -- that's literally just money out of CitiBike's pocket, money that could go into stuff like rebalancing bikes and buying more e-bikes, which no doubt they want to do.

Basically, no way CitiBike can come out and endorse what the boys were doing -- it runs counter to their whole model and I'm certain CitiBike views their behavior as a problem.

But if they come out and condemn the boys or even just say, more neutrally, that users are not supposed to hoard bikes and that if a bike is docked, it is available for use to whoever is ready to rent it next, they will be called racist and boycotted.

It's a no-win for them.

My lawyer gut check is they won’t do anything that could get them any more embedded in the litigation than they already are. If they change the policies, Marino will surely try to get a witness to say why, and it will immediately be construed as racist reasons.

Marino has said they won't pursue the teens (underscoring pp's point about how she did offer grace, but the teens took the grace and abused it to go after her on bigger platforms). But could this come up as "context" around her innocence? As in, she knew they were hoarding or scamming and wasn't going to let that stop her from going home?

That’s exactly what I’m saying. The pattern of bike hoarding would support her defamation claim by highlighting that she was disrupting a hoarding behavior, not “attempting to steal.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also the whole “WhItE TeArS” thing is so gross to me. It’s NYC, 2023. The police don’t give a single solitary F about 2 people bickering over a rental bike. The police in any major city wouldn’t get involved. They don’t get involved when people are assaulted on public transit and when people are openly using and selling drugs and running out of stores with bags full of stolen merchandise - why would they, presumably, beat up someone over a disputed rental bike? These people want to be victims sooooo bad.

And yet eric garner died selling single cigarettes. "These people" ? You're disgusting. Police can and do overreact (yes, even in NYC) ALL THE TIME. They wouldn't be reacting to the BIKE, they'd be reacting to the "poor delicate overworked white lady" who "rightfully got" the bike. Please.

If kids/men/boys are hoarding bikes why would anyone else bother? Just cancel your membership, find alternate means of transportation, then then Citi Bikes goes out of business. Sounds like a great business model if they just want to encourage a broken system easily abused.

Are you actually mocking a visibly pregnant woman who's just come off a 12-hour shift as a "poor delicate overworked white lady"? You can't have children of your own.

And how, exactly, is her "whiteness" relevant? You added that to racialize it. You're gross.

NO I was mocking the PP who called her overworked.

But OF COURSE IT'S RACIALIZED. Me mentioning her race didn't make it so. It EXISTS. White women cry and get black men killed.

And there it is. ANY white woman who cries in public--even after coming off a 12-hour shift while pregnant just to be mocked by a gang of guys hoarding the last e-bike--must be trying to get black men killed. There was no acceptable response for her, only to quietly back down and either take one of the non-electric bikes or walk home.

Do you know what I think you are?

It was not a "gang of guys" --- nice dog whistle, by the way. It was a couple of KIDS. And YES - of course the acceptable adult response would be to take a non electric bike. Why is it the children who are supposed to be more mature than the adult? Because you all baby white woman and vilify black children, calling them a gang.

TF. Are you listening to yourself? He's 17 about to graduate from high school, so he's almost 18. Not a "child" by anyone's definition. He's been scamming Citibike all day, including hoarding this bike for 50 minutes at the same station without actually using it himself and abusing the Angel Bikes program. He and his friends loudly mock the PA and called her baby r****d. He and his friends filmed her and put the video online.

And you think he's a poor widdle child with zero agency. And that the pregnant woman should take the regular bike--have you ever been pregnant?

White boys who are 17 are ROUTINELY called boys while black kids are held to a different standard. And while they may have been behaving immaturely, that doesn't make it ok for an adult to cry and call the cops because they were mean to her.

And yes, I have been a tired pregnant white woman three times but it never occurred to me to cry and call the police on children who were acting dumb. But then, I am not a racist.

She didn't call the cops!!! Where are you getting this? Hasn't this been explained to death?

omg so sue me I didn't read the whole 200 page thread. BUT she absolutely did not be needing to cry "HELP ME" as if they were going to hurt her. She could have just ... LEFT. Them being dicks doesn't mean she was somehow kidnapped.

She had to get home. Why didn't these young men leave? They were clearly abusing the bike share system. I hope their memberships have been terminated.

I wonder if CitiBike is having conversations about this whole thing. The truth is the boys are using the system in a way that is bad for CitiBike -- bike hoarding is bad for the system and discourages people from relying on bikeshare because it makes it less reliable. Plus the idea that people are camping on docked bikes and then bullying people out of renting them -- that's literally just money out of CitiBike's pocket, money that could go into stuff like rebalancing bikes and buying more e-bikes, which no doubt they want to do.

Basically, no way CitiBike can come out and endorse what the boys were doing -- it runs counter to their whole model and I'm certain CitiBike views their behavior as a problem.

But if they come out and condemn the boys or even just say, more neutrally, that users are not supposed to hoard bikes and that if a bike is docked, it is available for use to whoever is ready to rent it next, they will be called racist and boycotted.

It's a no-win for them.

My lawyer gut check is they won’t do anything that could get them any more embedded in the litigation than they already are. If they change the policies, Marino will surely try to get a witness to say why, and it will immediately be construed as racist reasons.

I’m sure they are well aware of cases of bike-camping and people taking serial rides to stay under the cap. It’s probably not a big enough issue to be worth changing the policy.

Maybe. It depends on how common it is. My sense is that the introduction of e-bikes has made it much worse because there aren't enough e-bikes in the system so it's made bike hoarding a bigger issue. Perhaps they address that by simply getting more e-bikes.

I do think this whole incident illustrates who bike-camping (docking a bike but claiming it's yours) leads to conflict and could potentially lead to violence. There have been issues in the past where people riding bikes are attacked and have their bikes stolen, and the people on the bikes will often fight back aggressively because if they don't, CitiBike will charge them for the missing bike (and it's a lot). So I do actually think CitiBike must be looking into liability issues with regards to bike-camping because if they do nothing and it escalates...

Imagine if this incident had resulted in either (1) the boys shove the woman hard enough that she falls to the ground and has a miscarriage, or (2) the woman's cries for help do indeed bring either a racist cop or a racist vigilante running and he shoots/attacks/harms one of the boys. No sane person wants either of those outcomes. It would be good for CitiBike to look for ways to prevent it by adopting policies that make these kinds of conflicts less likely.

If kids/men/boys are hoarding bikes why would anyone else bother? Just cancel your membership, find alternate means of transportation, then then Citi Bikes goes out of business. Sounds like a great business model if they just want to encourage a broken system easily abused.

I don't live in NYC, but I am a bikeshare member in another city. As someone who pays an annual fee plus extra charges for e-bikes or extra time, one of the thing that annoys me about this story is that the very people who are hoarding bikes and making it harder to find a bike you need are also apparently getting subsidized by the system. Like I am fine with my membership fee helping to subsidize free rides for people who need them, I'm not so excited about it being used to subsidize people who just camp on e-bikes all day and ensure they are never available for someone like me, who is using the bikes to commute.

I also can't tell you how irritated I'd be if I walked to a specific station because the app said it had a certain number of bikes or e-bikes, only to find a bunch of kids sitting on docked bikes and claiming those bikes were "theirs". There are three bikeshare stations walking distance from my office, but the are in different directions. I will walk to the one that is technically furthest from my home if it has the best bike availability according to the app. If I showed up and some kid was like "no you can't have this bike" even though it was in the dock and he wasn't renting it, he's just wasted like 20 minutes of my time and now I either have to use a regular pedal bike or walk 4 or 5 blocks to another station.

I personally wouldn't shove past him to take it (I have a very acute sense of self preservation), but I'm also not the kind of person who signs up to be a physicians assistant at a hospital like Bellevue -- I like being comfortable. The PA is obviously more willing to assert herself. Frankly: good for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also the whole “WhItE TeArS” thing is so gross to me. It’s NYC, 2023. The police don’t give a single solitary F about 2 people bickering over a rental bike. The police in any major city wouldn’t get involved. They don’t get involved when people are assaulted on public transit and when people are openly using and selling drugs and running out of stores with bags full of stolen merchandise - why would they, presumably, beat up someone over a disputed rental bike? These people want to be victims sooooo bad.

And yet eric garner died selling single cigarettes. "These people" ? You're disgusting. Police can and do overreact (yes, even in NYC) ALL THE TIME. They wouldn't be reacting to the BIKE, they'd be reacting to the "poor delicate overworked white lady" who "rightfully got" the bike. Please.

If kids/men/boys are hoarding bikes why would anyone else bother? Just cancel your membership, find alternate means of transportation, then then Citi Bikes goes out of business. Sounds like a great business model if they just want to encourage a broken system easily abused.

Are you actually mocking a visibly pregnant woman who's just come off a 12-hour shift as a "poor delicate overworked white lady"? You can't have children of your own.

And how, exactly, is her "whiteness" relevant? You added that to racialize it. You're gross.

NO I was mocking the PP who called her overworked.

But OF COURSE IT'S RACIALIZED. Me mentioning her race didn't make it so. It EXISTS. White women cry and get black men killed.

And there it is. ANY white woman who cries in public--even after coming off a 12-hour shift while pregnant just to be mocked by a gang of guys hoarding the last e-bike--must be trying to get black men killed. There was no acceptable response for her, only to quietly back down and either take one of the non-electric bikes or walk home.

Do you know what I think you are?

It was not a "gang of guys" --- nice dog whistle, by the way. It was a couple of KIDS. And YES - of course the acceptable adult response would be to take a non electric bike. Why is it the children who are supposed to be more mature than the adult? Because you all baby white woman and vilify black children, calling them a gang.

TF. Are you listening to yourself? He's 17 about to graduate from high school, so he's almost 18. Not a "child" by anyone's definition. He's been scamming Citibike all day, including hoarding this bike for 50 minutes at the same station without actually using it himself and abusing the Angel Bikes program. He and his friends loudly mock the PA and called her baby r****d. He and his friends filmed her and put the video online.

And you think he's a poor widdle child with zero agency. And that the pregnant woman should take the regular bike--have you ever been pregnant?

White boys who are 17 are ROUTINELY called boys while black kids are held to a different standard. And while they may have been behaving immaturely, that doesn't make it ok for an adult to cry and call the cops because they were mean to her.

And yes, I have been a tired pregnant white woman three times but it never occurred to me to cry and call the police on children who were acting dumb. But then, I am not a racist.

She didn't call the cops!!! Where are you getting this? Hasn't this been explained to death?

omg so sue me I didn't read the whole 200 page thread. BUT she absolutely did not be needing to cry "HELP ME" as if they were going to hurt her. She could have just ... LEFT. Them being dicks doesn't mean she was somehow kidnapped.

She had to get home. Why didn't these young men leave? They were clearly abusing the bike share system. I hope their memberships have been terminated.

I wonder if CitiBike is having conversations about this whole thing. The truth is the boys are using the system in a way that is bad for CitiBike -- bike hoarding is bad for the system and discourages people from relying on bikeshare because it makes it less reliable. Plus the idea that people are camping on docked bikes and then bullying people out of renting them -- that's literally just money out of CitiBike's pocket, money that could go into stuff like rebalancing bikes and buying more e-bikes, which no doubt they want to do.

Basically, no way CitiBike can come out and endorse what the boys were doing -- it runs counter to their whole model and I'm certain CitiBike views their behavior as a problem.

But if they come out and condemn the boys or even just say, more neutrally, that users are not supposed to hoard bikes and that if a bike is docked, it is available for use to whoever is ready to rent it next, they will be called racist and boycotted.

It's a no-win for them.

My lawyer gut check is they won’t do anything that could get them any more embedded in the litigation than they already are. If they change the policies, Marino will surely try to get a witness to say why, and it will immediately be construed as racist reasons.

I’m sure they are well aware of cases of bike-camping and people taking serial rides to stay under the cap. It’s probably not a big enough issue to be worth changing the policy.

Maybe. It depends on how common it is. My sense is that the introduction of e-bikes has made it much worse because there aren't enough e-bikes in the system so it's made bike hoarding a bigger issue. Perhaps they address that by simply getting more e-bikes.

I do think this whole incident illustrates who bike-camping (docking a bike but claiming it's yours) leads to conflict and could potentially lead to violence. There have been issues in the past where people riding bikes are attacked and have their bikes stolen, and the people on the bikes will often fight back aggressively because if they don't, CitiBike will charge them for the missing bike (and it's a lot). So I do actually think CitiBike must be looking into liability issues with regards to bike-camping because if they do nothing and it escalates...

Imagine if this incident had resulted in either (1) the boys shove the woman hard enough that she falls to the ground and has a miscarriage, or (2) the woman's cries for help do indeed bring either a racist cop or a racist vigilante running and he shoots/attacks/harms one of the boys. No sane person wants either of those outcomes. It would be good for CitiBike to look for ways to prevent it by adopting policies that make these kinds of conflicts less likely.

If kids/men/boys are hoarding bikes why would anyone else bother? Just cancel your membership, find alternate means of transportation, then then Citi Bikes goes out of business. Sounds like a great business model if they just want to encourage a broken system easily abused.

I don't live in NYC, but I am a bikeshare member in another city. As someone who pays an annual fee plus extra charges for e-bikes or extra time, one of the thing that annoys me about this story is that the very people who are hoarding bikes and making it harder to find a bike you need are also apparently getting subsidized by the system. Like I am fine with my membership fee helping to subsidize free rides for people who need them, I'm not so excited about it being used to subsidize people who just camp on e-bikes all day and ensure they are never available for someone like me, who is using the bikes to commute.

I also can't tell you how irritated I'd be if I walked to a specific station because the app said it had a certain number of bikes or e-bikes, only to find a bunch of kids sitting on docked bikes and claiming those bikes were "theirs". There are three bikeshare stations walking distance from my office, but the are in different directions. I will walk to the one that is technically furthest from my home if it has the best bike availability according to the app. If I showed up and some kid was like "no you can't have this bike" even though it was in the dock and he wasn't renting it, he's just wasted like 20 minutes of my time and now I either have to use a regular pedal bike or walk 4 or 5 blocks to another station.

I personally wouldn't shove past him to take it (I have a very acute sense of self preservation), but I'm also not the kind of person who signs up to be a physicians assistant at a hospital like Bellevue -- I like being comfortable. The PA is obviously more willing to assert herself. Frankly: good for her.

Likely she was thinking "Not today!" When they were hoarding all the bikes that weren't even currently rented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also the whole “WhItE TeArS” thing is so gross to me. It’s NYC, 2023. The police don’t give a single solitary F about 2 people bickering over a rental bike. The police in any major city wouldn’t get involved. They don’t get involved when people are assaulted on public transit and when people are openly using and selling drugs and running out of stores with bags full of stolen merchandise - why would they, presumably, beat up someone over a disputed rental bike? These people want to be victims sooooo bad.

And yet eric garner died selling single cigarettes. "These people" ? You're disgusting. Police can and do overreact (yes, even in NYC) ALL THE TIME. They wouldn't be reacting to the BIKE, they'd be reacting to the "poor delicate overworked white lady" who "rightfully got" the bike. Please.

Are you actually mocking a visibly pregnant woman who's just come off a 12-hour shift as a "poor delicate overworked white lady"? You can't have children of your own.

And how, exactly, is her "whiteness" relevant? You added that to racialize it. You're gross.

NO I was mocking the PP who called her overworked.

But OF COURSE IT'S RACIALIZED. Me mentioning her race didn't make it so. It EXISTS. White women cry and get black men killed.

And there it is. ANY white woman who cries in public--even after coming off a 12-hour shift while pregnant just to be mocked by a gang of guys hoarding the last e-bike--must be trying to get black men killed. There was no acceptable response for her, only to quietly back down and either take one of the non-electric bikes or walk home.

Do you know what I think you are?

It was not a "gang of guys" --- nice dog whistle, by the way. It was a couple of KIDS. And YES - of course the acceptable adult response would be to take a non electric bike. Why is it the children who are supposed to be more mature than the adult? Because you all baby white woman and vilify black children, calling them a gang.

TF. Are you listening to yourself? He's 17 about to graduate from high school, so he's almost 18. Not a "child" by anyone's definition. He's been scamming Citibike all day, including hoarding this bike for 50 minutes at the same station without actually using it himself and abusing the Angel Bikes program. He and his friends loudly mock the PA and called her baby r****d. He and his friends filmed her and put the video online.

And you think he's a poor widdle child with zero agency. And that the pregnant woman should take the regular bike--have you ever been pregnant?

White boys who are 17 are ROUTINELY called boys while black kids are held to a different standard. And while they may have been behaving immaturely, that doesn't make it ok for an adult to cry and call the cops because they were mean to her.

And yes, I have been a tired pregnant white woman three times but it never occurred to me to cry and call the police on children who were acting dumb. But then, I am not a racist.

She didn't call the cops!!! Where are you getting this? Hasn't this been explained to death?

omg so sue me I didn't read the whole 200 page thread. BUT she absolutely did not be needing to cry "HELP ME" as if they were going to hurt her. She could have just ... LEFT. Them being dicks doesn't mean she was somehow kidnapped.

She had to get home. Why didn't these young men leave? They were clearly abusing the bike share system. I hope their memberships have been terminated.

I wonder if CitiBike is having conversations about this whole thing. The truth is the boys are using the system in a way that is bad for CitiBike -- bike hoarding is bad for the system and discourages people from relying on bikeshare because it makes it less reliable. Plus the idea that people are camping on docked bikes and then bullying people out of renting them -- that's literally just money out of CitiBike's pocket, money that could go into stuff like rebalancing bikes and buying more e-bikes, which no doubt they want to do.

Basically, no way CitiBike can come out and endorse what the boys were doing -- it runs counter to their whole model and I'm certain CitiBike views their behavior as a problem.

But if they come out and condemn the boys or even just say, more neutrally, that users are not supposed to hoard bikes and that if a bike is docked, it is available for use to whoever is ready to rent it next, they will be called racist and boycotted.

It's a no-win for them.

My lawyer gut check is they won’t do anything that could get them any more embedded in the litigation than they already are. If they change the policies, Marino will surely try to get a witness to say why, and it will immediately be construed as racist reasons.

Marino has said they won't pursue the teens (underscoring pp's point about how she did offer grace, but the teens took the grace and abused it to go after her on bigger platforms). But could this come up as "context" around her innocence? As in, she knew they were hoarding or scamming and wasn't going to let that stop her from going home?

That’s exactly what I’m saying. The pattern of bike hoarding would support her defamation claim by highlighting that she was disrupting a hoarding behavior, not “attempting to steal.”

I mean, they don't even need it as evidence. The PA has proven that she was not stealing, the end.

I agree the hoarding behavior was egregious but you don't even have to get into it. The truth is the bike was docked and available for rental (showing up in the app as available), the PA swiped the QR with her app and rented it. She wasn't stealing anything, it's just this kid had decided the bike belong to him. He has no legal argument for this, that's entirely a fiction he and his friends created for themselves because they are 17 and like to feel like kings riding around the city on e-bikes they got for free and pretending they own them. That's fine but it's not reality.

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Anonymous wrote:Also the whole “WhItE TeArS” thing is so gross to me. It’s NYC, 2023. The police don’t give a single solitary F about 2 people bickering over a rental bike. The police in any major city wouldn’t get involved. They don’t get involved when people are assaulted on public transit and when people are openly using and selling drugs and running out of stores with bags full of stolen merchandise - why would they, presumably, beat up someone over a disputed rental bike? These people want to be victims sooooo bad.

And yet eric garner died selling single cigarettes. "These people" ? You're disgusting. Police can and do overreact (yes, even in NYC) ALL THE TIME. They wouldn't be reacting to the BIKE, they'd be reacting to the "poor delicate overworked white lady" who "rightfully got" the bike. Please.

Are you actually mocking a visibly pregnant woman who's just come off a 12-hour shift as a "poor delicate overworked white lady"? You can't have children of your own.

And how, exactly, is her "whiteness" relevant? You added that to racialize it. You're gross.

NO I was mocking the PP who called her overworked.

But OF COURSE IT'S RACIALIZED. Me mentioning her race didn't make it so. It EXISTS. White women cry and get black men killed.

And there it is. ANY white woman who cries in public--even after coming off a 12-hour shift while pregnant just to be mocked by a gang of guys hoarding the last e-bike--must be trying to get black men killed. There was no acceptable response for her, only to quietly back down and either take one of the non-electric bikes or walk home.

Do you know what I think you are?

It was not a "gang of guys" --- nice dog whistle, by the way. It was a couple of KIDS. And YES - of course the acceptable adult response would be to take a non electric bike. Why is it the children who are supposed to be more mature than the adult? Because you all baby white woman and vilify black children, calling them a gang.

TF. Are you listening to yourself? He's 17 about to graduate from high school, so he's almost 18. Not a "child" by anyone's definition. He's been scamming Citibike all day, including hoarding this bike for 50 minutes at the same station without actually using it himself and abusing the Angel Bikes program. He and his friends loudly mock the PA and called her baby r****d. He and his friends filmed her and put the video online.

And you think he's a poor widdle child with zero agency. And that the pregnant woman should take the regular bike--have you ever been pregnant?

White boys who are 17 are ROUTINELY called boys while black kids are held to a different standard. And while they may have been behaving immaturely, that doesn't make it ok for an adult to cry and call the cops because they were mean to her.

And yes, I have been a tired pregnant white woman three times but it never occurred to me to cry and call the police on children who were acting dumb. But then, I am not a racist.

These are young men who are graduating high school right now. They are old enough to be held accountable for their behavior, just like anyone else. She was surrounded by multiple men blocking her from leaving. What would YOU do if you were in that situation? She did not know if they were harmless or not (on the video they appeared to be but from her viewpoint at that moment she felt threatened). Help me is the appropriate response to it. She should just do what?

You even bother to ask? PP was responding to me asking the exact same question. Her response was "they are just children and she should take the regular bike." Gross.

- a progressive

They aren't children if they graduated high school. You cannot say they are kids for one situation and men for another.

Either way, they should come out and apologize for their actions, she should apologize for hers and be done with it. This has nothing to do with race. The men behaved very poorly and should know better than to gang up on a pregnant woman but if they said they were using it, even though they were in the wrong, you don't just take the bike either.

I see so many referring to them as men. Just a few weeks ago the headlines about the rock throwing incident referred to the people who murdered someone as teens.
(3 Colorado Teens Charged With Murder in Fatal Rock-Throwing Incident) I was shocked to see they were 18. Meanwhile, these teen boys are men.

https://www.npr.org/2014/03/19/291405871/consequences-when-african-american-boys-are-seen-as-older

Nobody knew how old they were until the interview came out yesterday. When this video first came out it was unclear if they were minors or not. To me it seemed like immature behavior so I guessed from 17-20 but wouldn’t have been surprised at 22-23. So I called them “boys”
to give them the benefit of the doubt - but then was told thay was racist - and now am told “men” is also racist. 🤷‍♀️

This is the kind of cr*p that rightfully gets labeled woketastic.

Everyone younger than the age of majority counts as a kid, sorry folks.

So my son is a "child" at 17 years and 11 months for the purposes of moral accountability for anything he does? Good to know. Although I won't be telling my son, because I still believe 17-year-olds are morally responsible for their actions.

Yes, your 17-year-old counts as a child. Not in terms of “moral accountability”, but in terms of legal age, which is what we are discussing. And if your imaginary 17-year-old white son had done something wrong, you’d be calling him a child and you know it, so cut the crap.

No we're not discussing legal liability, because, as you know very well, her lawyer has said she's not going to sue the boys. So cut the crap yourself.

I have a white son. And I'd absolutely hold him morally accountable for not giving a bike to a pregnant woman, mocking her, filming her, and physically shoving around a bike with her on it. I sure hope this teen's mom is giving him sh!t too, although I can understand why she'd not want to do it publicly.

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Anonymous wrote:Also the whole “WhItE TeArS” thing is so gross to me. It’s NYC, 2023. The police don’t give a single solitary F about 2 people bickering over a rental bike. The police in any major city wouldn’t get involved. They don’t get involved when people are assaulted on public transit and when people are openly using and selling drugs and running out of stores with bags full of stolen merchandise - why would they, presumably, beat up someone over a disputed rental bike? These people want to be victims sooooo bad.

And yet eric garner died selling single cigarettes. "These people" ? You're disgusting. Police can and do overreact (yes, even in NYC) ALL THE TIME. They wouldn't be reacting to the BIKE, they'd be reacting to the "poor delicate overworked white lady" who "rightfully got" the bike. Please.

Are you actually mocking a visibly pregnant woman who's just come off a 12-hour shift as a "poor delicate overworked white lady"? You can't have children of your own.

And how, exactly, is her "whiteness" relevant? You added that to racialize it. You're gross.

NO I was mocking the PP who called her overworked.

But OF COURSE IT'S RACIALIZED. Me mentioning her race didn't make it so. It EXISTS. White women cry and get black men killed.

And there it is. ANY white woman who cries in public--even after coming off a 12-hour shift while pregnant just to be mocked by a gang of guys hoarding the last e-bike--must be trying to get black men killed. There was no acceptable response for her, only to quietly back down and either take one of the non-electric bikes or walk home.

Do you know what I think you are?

It was not a "gang of guys" --- nice dog whistle, by the way. It was a couple of KIDS. And YES - of course the acceptable adult response would be to take a non electric bike. Why is it the children who are supposed to be more mature than the adult? Because you all baby white woman and vilify black children, calling them a gang.

TF. Are you listening to yourself? He's 17 about to graduate from high school, so he's almost 18. Not a "child" by anyone's definition. He's been scamming Citibike all day, including hoarding this bike for 50 minutes at the same station without actually using it himself and abusing the Angel Bikes program. He and his friends loudly mock the PA and called her baby r****d. He and his friends filmed her and put the video online.

And you think he's a poor widdle child with zero agency. And that the pregnant woman should take the regular bike--have you ever been pregnant?

White boys who are 17 are ROUTINELY called boys while black kids are held to a different standard. And while they may have been behaving immaturely, that doesn't make it ok for an adult to cry and call the cops because they were mean to her.

And yes, I have been a tired pregnant white woman three times but it never occurred to me to cry and call the police on children who were acting dumb. But then, I am not a racist.

She didn't call the cops!!! Where are you getting this? Hasn't this been explained to death?

omg so sue me I didn't read the whole 200 page thread. BUT she absolutely did not be needing to cry "HELP ME" as if they were going to hurt her. She could have just ... LEFT. Them being dicks doesn't mean she was somehow kidnapped.

She had to get home. Why didn't these young men leave? They were clearly abusing the bike share system. I hope their memberships have been terminated.

I wonder if CitiBike is having conversations about this whole thing. The truth is the boys are using the system in a way that is bad for CitiBike -- bike hoarding is bad for the system and discourages people from relying on bikeshare because it makes it less reliable. Plus the idea that people are camping on docked bikes and then bullying people out of renting them -- that's literally just money out of CitiBike's pocket, money that could go into stuff like rebalancing bikes and buying more e-bikes, which no doubt they want to do.

Basically, no way CitiBike can come out and endorse what the boys were doing -- it runs counter to their whole model and I'm certain CitiBike views their behavior as a problem.

But if they come out and condemn the boys or even just say, more neutrally, that users are not supposed to hoard bikes and that if a bike is docked, it is available for use to whoever is ready to rent it next, they will be called racist and boycotted.

It's a no-win for them.

My lawyer gut check is they won’t do anything that could get them any more embedded in the litigation than they already are. If they change the policies, Marino will surely try to get a witness to say why, and it will immediately be construed as racist reasons.

Marino has said they won't pursue the teens (underscoring pp's point about how she did offer grace, but the teens took the grace and abused it to go after her on bigger platforms). But could this come up as "context" around her innocence? As in, she knew they were hoarding or scamming and wasn't going to let that stop her from going home?

That’s exactly what I’m saying. The pattern of bike hoarding would support her defamation claim by highlighting that she was disrupting a hoarding behavior, not “attempting to steal.”

I mean, they don't even need it as evidence. The PA has proven that she was not stealing, the end.

I agree the hoarding behavior was egregious but you don't even have to get into it. The truth is the bike was docked and available for rental (showing up in the app as available), the PA swiped the QR with her app and rented it. She wasn't stealing anything, it's just this kid had decided the bike belong to him. He has no legal argument for this, that's entirely a fiction he and his friends created for themselves because they are 17 and like to feel like kings riding around the city on e-bikes they got for free and pretending they own them. That's fine but it's not reality.

I’d collect that discovery also, personally. Partially because Judge is continuing to defame her using these facts.

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Anonymous wrote:This has honestly turned into the dumbest story. Two people arguing over a bike, probably both in the wrong, and here we are almost 200 pages later arguing about it.

They both handled the bike dispute poorly, but only one of them filmed it and released it in the internet. Soooo … one of them was way worse.

You forgot that she was yelling "HELP ME HELP ME" as if she was in danger when it turns out she put herself in that position. Yea, the kid was being a dick by hoarding the bike and I would have been annoyed with him too, but she could have handled the interaction gracefully. They are both in the wrong.

I would feel threatened if someone shoved my bike into the dock and yelled lies at me about it being their bike.

So would I but now we have more information and this isn't what happened.

It’s exactly what happened. It’s what the video shows, the receipts substantiate, and what he said in *his own interview.*

There is only ONE fact actually in dispute here: whether (as he says) the boy was holding the bike and she “pushed” onto it despite him telling her he still wanted to rent it later; or whether (as she says) the bike was unattended.

Even if his version is true, that still does not support the false claims that she was “stealing” his bike and faking her distress to intentionally endanger him.

Unfortunately this episode has for me given the knowledge that actual racism/sexism exists against white women among some black people. The knee jerk reaction to a white person was to assume she is evil and intends harm; and moreover that white women are fundamentally evil. It is pretty disturbing.

Same here. The term Karen has concerned me as a racist, sexist, ageist trope for some time. What this incident shows is that it's become extremely easy to Karen a white woman for fun and leave it to grifters like Monique to platform it with racist dog whistles about tears etc, whip up the online pitchforks and mobs, and quickly ruin someone's life (because social media rewards this monetarily, in Monique's case). There's a large segment of the population, including the "ally" here, who won't even question it because, hey, white women are always and everywhere less than human.

I think the teens were just being teens and have no animus toward them, although I do think they were clearly in the wrong.