Smart Restart APS- ventilation studies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't people here saying elementary school shouldn't be going back either until CPC guidelines are met? I didn't think the complaining parents on here are limited to middle and high school because safety doesn't matter for their elementary kids, but maybe I misunderstood. It's a long thread and I haven't read all of it.

I certainly don't mean to gaslight. And I did not mean to suggest that, for example, elementary kids shouldn't go back until high schools met the required standards -- that was bad phrasing on my part and I apologize.

A lot of different thoughts in this thread. Here's my understanding of what it seems a lot of people are saying: elementary should go back in March because the CDC guidelines allow for it, even though Arlington is the "red" or highest level. But before going back in early March, it would be great if the correct number of air filters/purifiers could be properly placed in each APS classroom (some classrooms may need more than one to achieve the ideal 4-6 air exchanges per hour because of the size of those classrooms, although most classrooms are fine with just one). It also would be great if APS could implement a better lunch plan before early March , with no kids eating in the cafeteria. Personally, I think all lunch should be outside. For MS and HS, the CDC guidelines raise a bigger question because they recommend only virtual learning for MS and HS in the "red" or highest level, unless APS has in place a comprehensive screening test system in place. It doesn't seem APS does, so it *could* necessitate a delay in re-opening MS and HS. But the same thing re ventilation and lunch would apply to MS and HS when they open, but perhaps even more acutely for lunch because many of the current lunch plans involve a lot of kids eating in a cafeteria.

Of course, some are saying to go back at all levels now, regardless of ventilation, lunch plans, or CDC guidelines.

I agree with a lot of your summary, but you’ve ignored the significant contingent arguing that schools should not reopen at all until we’ve met metrics that go well beyond the CDC guidelines. There are extremists on both sides.

You keep saying that, but I have yet to see anyone on this thread expressing that opinion.

I also don't see anyone saying we should completely disregard ventilation, lunch plans or CDC guidelines. But there are differences of opinions on what's safe enough when it comes to ventilation and lunch plans.

Well whenever several of us have brought up the need to change the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom, the response from certain posters is for us to stay home. I would say that is disregarding safety concerns.

I guess I was assuming that you 'knew' the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom was not true. APS has said repeatedly that lunch would be eaten in classrooms. Classrooms, which are spaced 6 feet apart and have 1/2 the students who are in person in them- so like between 6-12 students.
https://www.apsva.us/post/how-will-lunch-be-handled-during-in-person-instruction/

Why would I assume it’s not true when the information came straight out of our principal and facility managers mouth? Again would you like the link to the PTA meeting recording?

okay- since Williamsburg is the bee in your bonnet lets assume that eating at Williamsburg is restricted to the cafeteria. The williamsburg cafeteria has a capacity for 541 students at a time.

Williamsburg current enrollment is 894. 1/2 pick virtual, we are at 450. 1/2 of those attend on any given day, we are at 225. Those 225 are divided into three lunch periods- 75 students eating lunch at a time, in a room designed to fit 541. That doesn't sound so bad to me?

You don't need to do the math. The principal said 100+ kids in the cafeteria at at time. Multiple shifts, so the last shift (since the virus is airborne) is at most risk. Also, 70% of WMS students chose hybrid. principa

Have you been eating regularly in a room with 100 people? Has your kid?

No, because there’s been no cause to. All of this is a risk/benefit analysis, and for some people, the mitigated risk of cafeteria eating as planned by APS is worth it for the benefit of in-person schooling. Your calculus is different and that’s okay, but it doesn’t inherently mean schools should stay closed.

Who said stay closed? Open with an option to eat outdoors. Give kids in person school without requiring them to eat in an 100 person restaurant. Seems reasonable. If we care about the health of our students.

The APS secondary guidance says meals will also be eaten outdoors, with the caveat that it’s weather permitting. No matter how sincere their intention of allowing outdoor lunches, they have to plan for the days they won’t be able to do that.

KMS is planning for outdoor lunch, WMS is not. Have not heard about the other schools.

[Anonymous]

Why aren’t there outdoor plans for all middle and high schools? I’m guessing it’s because the high hybrid schools can’t manage it?

[Anonymous]

Would someone post the link to the Williamsburg presentation everyone is talking about? I must have missed it and would like to view it.

[Anonymous]

I know WMS and a couple of elementary schools are using the cafeteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would someone post the link to the Williamsburg presentation everyone is talking about? I must have missed it and would like to view it.

Nevermind, I found it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't people here saying elementary school shouldn't be going back either until CPC guidelines are met? I didn't think the complaining parents on here are limited to middle and high school because safety doesn't matter for their elementary kids, but maybe I misunderstood. It's a long thread and I haven't read all of it.

I certainly don't mean to gaslight. And I did not mean to suggest that, for example, elementary kids shouldn't go back until high schools met the required standards -- that was bad phrasing on my part and I apologize.

A lot of different thoughts in this thread. Here's my understanding of what it seems a lot of people are saying: elementary should go back in March because the CDC guidelines allow for it, even though Arlington is the "red" or highest level. But before going back in early March, it would be great if the correct number of air filters/purifiers could be properly placed in each APS classroom (some classrooms may need more than one to achieve the ideal 4-6 air exchanges per hour because of the size of those classrooms, although most classrooms are fine with just one). It also would be great if APS could implement a better lunch plan before early March , with no kids eating in the cafeteria. Personally, I think all lunch should be outside. For MS and HS, the CDC guidelines raise a bigger question because they recommend only virtual learning for MS and HS in the "red" or highest level, unless APS has in place a comprehensive screening test system in place. It doesn't seem APS does, so it *could* necessitate a delay in re-opening MS and HS. But the same thing re ventilation and lunch would apply to MS and HS when they open, but perhaps even more acutely for lunch because many of the current lunch plans involve a lot of kids eating in a cafeteria.

Of course, some are saying to go back at all levels now, regardless of ventilation, lunch plans, or CDC guidelines.

I agree with a lot of your summary, but you’ve ignored the significant contingent arguing that schools should not reopen at all until we’ve met metrics that go well beyond the CDC guidelines. There are extremists on both sides.

You keep saying that, but I have yet to see anyone on this thread expressing that opinion.

I also don't see anyone saying we should completely disregard ventilation, lunch plans or CDC guidelines. But there are differences of opinions on what's safe enough when it comes to ventilation and lunch plans.

Well whenever several of us have brought up the need to change the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom, the response from certain posters is for us to stay home. I would say that is disregarding safety concerns.

I guess I was assuming that you 'knew' the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom was not true. APS has said repeatedly that lunch would be eaten in classrooms. Classrooms, which are spaced 6 feet apart and have 1/2 the students who are in person in them- so like between 6-12 students.
https://www.apsva.us/post/how-will-lunch-be-handled-during-in-person-instruction/

Why would I assume it’s not true when the information came straight out of our principal and facility managers mouth? Again would you like the link to the PTA meeting recording?

okay- since Williamsburg is the bee in your bonnet lets assume that eating at Williamsburg is restricted to the cafeteria. The williamsburg cafeteria has a capacity for 541 students at a time.

Williamsburg current enrollment is 894. 1/2 pick virtual, we are at 450. 1/2 of those attend on any given day, we are at 225. Those 225 are divided into three lunch periods- 75 students eating lunch at a time, in a room designed to fit 541. That doesn't sound so bad to me?

You don't need to do the math. The principal said 100+ kids in the cafeteria at at time. Multiple shifts, so the last shift (since the virus is airborne) is at most risk. Also, 70% of WMS students chose hybrid. principa

Have you been eating regularly in a room with 100 people? Has your kid?

No, because there’s been no cause to. All of this is a risk/benefit analysis, and for some people, the mitigated risk of cafeteria eating as planned by APS is worth it for the benefit of in-person schooling. Your calculus is different and that’s okay, but it doesn’t inherently mean schools should stay closed.

Who said stay closed? Open with an option to eat outdoors. Give kids in person school without requiring them to eat in an 100 person restaurant. Seems reasonable. If we care about the health of our students.

The APS secondary guidance says meals will also be eaten outdoors, with the caveat that it’s weather permitting. No matter how sincere their intention of allowing outdoor lunches, they have to plan for the days they won’t be able to do that.

KMS is planning for outdoor lunch, WMS is not. Have not heard about the other schools.

This is not strictly true for WMS. They aren't planning on it right away for weather-related reasons, but they specifically said it wasn't out of the question as weather permits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't people here saying elementary school shouldn't be going back either until CPC guidelines are met? I didn't think the complaining parents on here are limited to middle and high school because safety doesn't matter for their elementary kids, but maybe I misunderstood. It's a long thread and I haven't read all of it.

I certainly don't mean to gaslight. And I did not mean to suggest that, for example, elementary kids shouldn't go back until high schools met the required standards -- that was bad phrasing on my part and I apologize.

A lot of different thoughts in this thread. Here's my understanding of what it seems a lot of people are saying: elementary should go back in March because the CDC guidelines allow for it, even though Arlington is the "red" or highest level. But before going back in early March, it would be great if the correct number of air filters/purifiers could be properly placed in each APS classroom (some classrooms may need more than one to achieve the ideal 4-6 air exchanges per hour because of the size of those classrooms, although most classrooms are fine with just one). It also would be great if APS could implement a better lunch plan before early March , with no kids eating in the cafeteria. Personally, I think all lunch should be outside. For MS and HS, the CDC guidelines raise a bigger question because they recommend only virtual learning for MS and HS in the "red" or highest level, unless APS has in place a comprehensive screening test system in place. It doesn't seem APS does, so it *could* necessitate a delay in re-opening MS and HS. But the same thing re ventilation and lunch would apply to MS and HS when they open, but perhaps even more acutely for lunch because many of the current lunch plans involve a lot of kids eating in a cafeteria.

Of course, some are saying to go back at all levels now, regardless of ventilation, lunch plans, or CDC guidelines.

I agree with a lot of your summary, but you’ve ignored the significant contingent arguing that schools should not reopen at all until we’ve met metrics that go well beyond the CDC guidelines. There are extremists on both sides.

You keep saying that, but I have yet to see anyone on this thread expressing that opinion.

I also don't see anyone saying we should completely disregard ventilation, lunch plans or CDC guidelines. But there are differences of opinions on what's safe enough when it comes to ventilation and lunch plans.

Well whenever several of us have brought up the need to change the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom, the response from certain posters is for us to stay home. I would say that is disregarding safety concerns.

I guess I was assuming that you 'knew' the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom was not true. APS has said repeatedly that lunch would be eaten in classrooms. Classrooms, which are spaced 6 feet apart and have 1/2 the students who are in person in them- so like between 6-12 students.
https://www.apsva.us/post/how-will-lunch-be-handled-during-in-person-instruction/

Why would I assume it’s not true when the information came straight out of our principal and facility managers mouth? Again would you like the link to the PTA meeting recording?

okay- since Williamsburg is the bee in your bonnet lets assume that eating at Williamsburg is restricted to the cafeteria. The williamsburg cafeteria has a capacity for 541 students at a time.

Williamsburg current enrollment is 894. 1/2 pick virtual, we are at 450. 1/2 of those attend on any given day, we are at 225. Those 225 are divided into three lunch periods- 75 students eating lunch at a time, in a room designed to fit 541. That doesn't sound so bad to me?

You don't need to do the math. The principal said 100+ kids in the cafeteria at at time. Multiple shifts, so the last shift (since the virus is airborne) is at most risk. Also, 70% of WMS students chose hybrid. principa

I'm pretty sure he said up to 100 at a time, not 100+ at a time. For sixth grade, at least, he said they didn't expect to need more than 80 seats for arrival purposes, so there shouldn't be more than 80 6th graders in there at a time. There may be more students in other grades, but I doubt it's dramatically different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't people here saying elementary school shouldn't be going back either until CPC guidelines are met? I didn't think the complaining parents on here are limited to middle and high school because safety doesn't matter for their elementary kids, but maybe I misunderstood. It's a long thread and I haven't read all of it.

I certainly don't mean to gaslight. And I did not mean to suggest that, for example, elementary kids shouldn't go back until high schools met the required standards -- that was bad phrasing on my part and I apologize.

A lot of different thoughts in this thread. Here's my understanding of what it seems a lot of people are saying: elementary should go back in March because the CDC guidelines allow for it, even though Arlington is the "red" or highest level. But before going back in early March, it would be great if the correct number of air filters/purifiers could be properly placed in each APS classroom (some classrooms may need more than one to achieve the ideal 4-6 air exchanges per hour because of the size of those classrooms, although most classrooms are fine with just one). It also would be great if APS could implement a better lunch plan before early March , with no kids eating in the cafeteria. Personally, I think all lunch should be outside. For MS and HS, the CDC guidelines raise a bigger question because they recommend only virtual learning for MS and HS in the "red" or highest level, unless APS has in place a comprehensive screening test system in place. It doesn't seem APS does, so it *could* necessitate a delay in re-opening MS and HS. But the same thing re ventilation and lunch would apply to MS and HS when they open, but perhaps even more acutely for lunch because many of the current lunch plans involve a lot of kids eating in a cafeteria.

Of course, some are saying to go back at all levels now, regardless of ventilation, lunch plans, or CDC guidelines.

I agree with a lot of your summary, but you’ve ignored the significant contingent arguing that schools should not reopen at all until we’ve met metrics that go well beyond the CDC guidelines. There are extremists on both sides.

You keep saying that, but I have yet to see anyone on this thread expressing that opinion.

I also don't see anyone saying we should completely disregard ventilation, lunch plans or CDC guidelines. But there are differences of opinions on what's safe enough when it comes to ventilation and lunch plans.

Well whenever several of us have brought up the need to change the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom, the response from certain posters is for us to stay home. I would say that is disregarding safety concerns.

I guess I was assuming that you 'knew' the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom was not true. APS has said repeatedly that lunch would be eaten in classrooms. Classrooms, which are spaced 6 feet apart and have 1/2 the students who are in person in them- so like between 6-12 students.
https://www.apsva.us/post/how-will-lunch-be-handled-during-in-person-instruction/

Why would I assume it’s not true when the information came straight out of our principal and facility managers mouth? Again would you like the link to the PTA meeting recording?

okay- since Williamsburg is the bee in your bonnet lets assume that eating at Williamsburg is restricted to the cafeteria. The williamsburg cafeteria has a capacity for 541 students at a time.

Williamsburg current enrollment is 894. 1/2 pick virtual, we are at 450. 1/2 of those attend on any given day, we are at 225. Those 225 are divided into three lunch periods- 75 students eating lunch at a time, in a room designed to fit 541. That doesn't sound so bad to me?

You don't need to do the math. The principal said 100+ kids in the cafeteria at at time. Multiple shifts, so the last shift (since the virus is airborne) is at most risk. Also, 70% of WMS students chose hybrid. principa

I'm pretty sure he said up to 100 at a time, not 100+ at a time. For sixth grade, at least, he said they didn't expect to need more than 80 seats for arrival purposes, so there shouldn't be more than 80 6th graders in there at a time. There may be more students in other grades, but I doubt it's dramatically different.

Oh. One grade is only 80+ and the REST are 100 or so? All good then. Thanks for the very helpful clarification.

[Anonymous]

If the thought of having your kid in a cafeteria eating with 99 other kids makes you nervous, work toward better lunch planning in the future but keep your kid home for now.

If your cost/benefit analysis is not "my kid's mental health is suffering so much that this risk might actually be worth it" then for heaven's sake keep your kid home in March and push APS to make things safer for everyone else in the fall.

Just because some people get a benefit doesn't mean that benefit needs to go to everyone. If your kids can hack DL, maybe it's better for everyone to just keep them home and push APS to do better in the Fall.

Just because it's there, doesn't mean you need to take it, or make it good enough for everyone first for it to be available. Let the kids who need it, have it. It would be even safer for them if you did.

I will keep my kids home for now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the thought of having your kid in a cafeteria eating with 99 other kids makes you nervous, work toward better lunch planning in the future but keep your kid home for now.

If your cost/benefit analysis is not "my kid's mental health is suffering so much that this risk might actually be worth it" then for heaven's sake keep your kid home in March and push APS to make things safer for everyone else in the fall.

Just because some people get a benefit doesn't mean that benefit needs to go to everyone. If your kids can hack DL, maybe it's better for everyone to just keep them home and push APS to do better in the Fall.

Just because it's there, doesn't mean you need to take it, or make it good enough for everyone first for it to be available. Let the kids who need it, have it. It would be even safer for them if you did.

I will keep my kids home for now.

My kids can hack DL but want to go back. We’re comfortable with APS’s mitigation plans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If the thought of having your kid in a cafeteria eating with 99 other kids makes you nervous, work toward better lunch planning in the future but keep your kid home for now.

If your cost/benefit analysis is not "my kid's mental health is suffering so much that this risk might actually be worth it" then for heaven's sake keep your kid home in March and push APS to make things safer for everyone else in the fall.

Just because some people get a benefit doesn't mean that benefit needs to go to everyone. If your kids can hack DL, maybe it's better for everyone to just keep them home and push APS to do better in the Fall.

Just because it's there, doesn't mean you need to take it, or make it good enough for everyone first for it to be available. Let the kids who need it, have it. It would be even safer for them if you did.

I will keep my kids home for now.

My kids can hack DL but want to go back. We’re comfortable with APS’s mitigation plans.

Agreed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren't people here saying elementary school shouldn't be going back either until CPC guidelines are met? I didn't think the complaining parents on here are limited to middle and high school because safety doesn't matter for their elementary kids, but maybe I misunderstood. It's a long thread and I haven't read all of it.

I certainly don't mean to gaslight. And I did not mean to suggest that, for example, elementary kids shouldn't go back until high schools met the required standards -- that was bad phrasing on my part and I apologize.

A lot of different thoughts in this thread. Here's my understanding of what it seems a lot of people are saying: elementary should go back in March because the CDC guidelines allow for it, even though Arlington is the "red" or highest level. But before going back in early March, it would be great if the correct number of air filters/purifiers could be properly placed in each APS classroom (some classrooms may need more than one to achieve the ideal 4-6 air exchanges per hour because of the size of those classrooms, although most classrooms are fine with just one). It also would be great if APS could implement a better lunch plan before early March , with no kids eating in the cafeteria. Personally, I think all lunch should be outside. For MS and HS, the CDC guidelines raise a bigger question because they recommend only virtual learning for MS and HS in the "red" or highest level, unless APS has in place a comprehensive screening test system in place. It doesn't seem APS does, so it *could* necessitate a delay in re-opening MS and HS. But the same thing re ventilation and lunch would apply to MS and HS when they open, but perhaps even more acutely for lunch because many of the current lunch plans involve a lot of kids eating in a cafeteria.

Of course, some are saying to go back at all levels now, regardless of ventilation, lunch plans, or CDC guidelines.

I agree with a lot of your summary, but you’ve ignored the significant contingent arguing that schools should not reopen at all until we’ve met metrics that go well beyond the CDC guidelines. There are extremists on both sides.

You keep saying that, but I have yet to see anyone on this thread expressing that opinion.

I also don't see anyone saying we should completely disregard ventilation, lunch plans or CDC guidelines. But there are differences of opinions on what's safe enough when it comes to ventilation and lunch plans.

Well whenever several of us have brought up the need to change the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom, the response from certain posters is for us to stay home. I would say that is disregarding safety concerns.

I guess I was assuming that you 'knew' the hundred plus kids in the lunchroom was not true. APS has said repeatedly that lunch would be eaten in classrooms. Classrooms, which are spaced 6 feet apart and have 1/2 the students who are in person in them- so like between 6-12 students.
https://www.apsva.us/post/how-will-lunch-be-handled-during-in-person-instruction/

Why would I assume it’s not true when the information came straight out of our principal and facility managers mouth? Again would you like the link to the PTA meeting recording?

okay- since Williamsburg is the bee in your bonnet lets assume that eating at Williamsburg is restricted to the cafeteria. The williamsburg cafeteria has a capacity for 541 students at a time.

Williamsburg current enrollment is 894. 1/2 pick virtual, we are at 450. 1/2 of those attend on any given day, we are at 225. Those 225 are divided into three lunch periods- 75 students eating lunch at a time, in a room designed to fit 541. That doesn't sound so bad to me?

You don't need to do the math. The principal said 100+ kids in the cafeteria at at time. Multiple shifts, so the last shift (since the virus is airborne) is at most risk. Also, 70% of WMS students chose hybrid. principa

I'm pretty sure he said up to 100 at a time, not 100+ at a time. For sixth grade, at least, he said they didn't expect to need more than 80 seats for arrival purposes, so there shouldn't be more than 80 6th graders in there at a time. There may be more students in other grades, but I doubt it's dramatically different.

Oh. One grade is only 80+ and the REST are 100 or so? All good then. Thanks for the very helpful clarification.

Do you have statistics on the number of WMS 7th and 8th graders going back, or are you making assumptions? They didn't give numbers for 7th and 8th grade during the meeting, but if the same proportion of 7th and 8th graders are doing hybrid as 6th graders and if each grade level is divided roughly in half between A and B groups, that suggests there will be about 90 7th graders and about 98 8th graders in each grade-level lunch shift.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s about 70 percent overall. Or was back in December. You can do the math. Adds up to roughly 100 each lunch for grades 7 and 8. Keeping mine home. Too many parents too blasé about the virus in this part of N Arl. Do not want kid maskless in a room with 90+ of their kids! I’ll wait til cases are lower or they figure out lunch. Or both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s about 70 percent overall. Or was back in December. You can do the math. Adds up to roughly 100 each lunch for grades 7 and 8. Keeping mine home. Too many parents too blasé about the virus in this part of N Arl. Do not want kid maskless in a room with 90+ of their kids! I’ll wait til cases are lower or they figure out lunch. Or both.

Based on the numbers given at the PTA meeting, about 60% of 6th graders are doing hybrid. What’s the source for 70%?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s about 70 percent overall. Or was back in December. You can do the math. Adds up to roughly 100 each lunch for grades 7 and 8. Keeping mine home. Too many parents too blasé about the virus in this part of N Arl. Do not want kid maskless in a room with 90+ of their kids! I’ll wait til cases are lower or they figure out lunch. Or both.

Based on the numbers given at the PTA meeting, about 60% of 6th graders are doing hybrid. What’s the source for 70%?

The principal reported 70% at the Dec PTA meeting. More families should really tune in....