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[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I agree with a lot of your points - but I’m afraid I completely disagree that Mitch raped Hannah. He did not rape her, he had sex with her and she did not stop him. That is not rape.

Rape is sex without consent. She did not consent. She didn't want to have sex with him. She did not go to his room with the intent of having sex with him and was surprised when he came onto her. She was also in a compromised emotional state.

If you don't want to use the word rape for it, okay I guess. I was raped by a male friend 20 years ago and I didn't call it rape for a long time because it didn't fit my mental definition of forcible rape. But that's what it is when someone has sex with you with out your consent. Eventually I just accepted that's what it was. But I get it can be hard to conceptualize when you've been told for years what rape looks like. I also get that it's hard to understand why a person in that situation might freeze up and make an instinctual decision to let it happen rather than fight (it's call the freeze response, as in fight, flight, or freeze). But the truth is that when a power imbalance is especially dramatic, freezing in place and "letting it happen" is a common trauma response, especially for someone who, like Hannah, has a history of childhood trauma.

It was rape.

I completely disagree. To use the word "rape" to describe an unpleasant sexual experience cheapens the word immeasurably. We will have to agree to disagree.

I don't agree to disagree, and I think you should think hard about your decision to describe it as "an unpleasant sexual experience." Just to recap what happened:

Hannah was coerced into having sex *by her boss* who also happened to be a famous millionaire, while clearly emotional distraught covering a mass shooting. Even if you don't want to call it rape, it is, at a minimum sexual harassment.

I do not understand why you are so determined to minimize it. This is a character who winds up overdosing because she is so traumatized by this event. Again, if you don't want to use the word rape, don't, but you don't get to hand wave it away because she wasn't held at gunpoint and she didn't behave the way you think a rape victim is supposed to behave.

Are you the infamous "hand-wavey" poster? Look, you can categorize this *fictional* encounter any way you choose - as can I. Hannah and Mitch had sex. She didn't want to, yet she also didn't object. He did not force himself on her; she could have said stop, or walked away at any point. Was there a power imbalance? Sure. Was it inappropriate for Mitch to have come on to her due to this power imbalance? Absolutely. Did Mitch rape Hannah? No, he did not.

I have been in a similar situation myself. I was disgusted by the end of it and furious with the man and with myself. Was I raped by him? No.

Who is the infamous hand-wavey poster? I don't even know what you are talking about.

That's fine, you can define your own experience however you want. But you are not the arbiter of what is rape. It's sex without consent. That's what happened to Hannah -- sex without consent.

Guys the show lives in this ambiguity - it's part of what makes this situation so challenging and hard, and it's one of the things TMS does well.

You don't have to figure it out for all time today, if sex with someone who is in a fragile state and doesn't really want to do it, but doesn't say no, meets the definition of rape or is merely upsetting and gross.

I agree, but even if you don't think it qualifies as rape, I think it's weird to dismiss it as the PP did with "unpleasant sexual experience." Mitch was Hannah's boss, he was married, and he did this kind of thing a lot. It was, at a minimum, sexual harassment. You can think he'd be unlikely to be convicted of rape and also think it was a fireable offense he'd lose a lawsuit over, and that his behavior made him pretty irredeemable as a character.

I continue to be kind of shocked by the poster on the last page who needed to have it explained what exactly it was that Mitch did "wrong."

I continue to be kind of shocked by anyone who would classify Hannah and Mitch having sex as "rape." As you said, "it was, at a minimum, sexual harassment". I agree. I do not agree that this situation constitutes rape, and I'm afraid you're just going to have to deal with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok, I agree with a lot of your points - but I’m afraid I completely disagree that Mitch raped Hannah. He did not rape her, he had sex with her and she did not stop him. That is not rape.

Rape is sex without consent. She did not consent. She didn't want to have sex with him. She did not go to his room with the intent of having sex with him and was surprised when he came onto her. She was also in a compromised emotional state.

If you don't want to use the word rape for it, okay I guess. I was raped by a male friend 20 years ago and I didn't call it rape for a long time because it didn't fit my mental definition of forcible rape. But that's what it is when someone has sex with you with out your consent. Eventually I just accepted that's what it was. But I get it can be hard to conceptualize when you've been told for years what rape looks like. I also get that it's hard to understand why a person in that situation might freeze up and make an instinctual decision to let it happen rather than fight (it's call the freeze response, as in fight, flight, or freeze). But the truth is that when a power imbalance is especially dramatic, freezing in place and "letting it happen" is a common trauma response, especially for someone who, like Hannah, has a history of childhood trauma.

It was rape.

I completely disagree. To use the word "rape" to describe an unpleasant sexual experience cheapens the word immeasurably. We will have to agree to disagree.

I don't agree to disagree, and I think you should think hard about your decision to describe it as "an unpleasant sexual experience." Just to recap what happened:

Hannah was coerced into having sex *by her boss* who also happened to be a famous millionaire, while clearly emotional distraught covering a mass shooting. Even if you don't want to call it rape, it is, at a minimum sexual harassment.

I do not understand why you are so determined to minimize it. This is a character who winds up overdosing because she is so traumatized by this event. Again, if you don't want to use the word rape, don't, but you don't get to hand wave it away because she wasn't held at gunpoint and she didn't behave the way you think a rape victim is supposed to behave.

Are you the infamous "hand-wavey" poster? Look, you can categorize this *fictional* encounter any way you choose - as can I. Hannah and Mitch had sex. She didn't want to, yet she also didn't object. He did not force himself on her; she could have said stop, or walked away at any point. Was there a power imbalance? Sure. Was it inappropriate for Mitch to have come on to her due to this power imbalance? Absolutely. Did Mitch rape Hannah? No, he did not.

I have been in a similar situation myself. I was disgusted by the end of it and furious with the man and with myself. Was I raped by him? No.

Who is the infamous hand-wavey poster? I don't even know what you are talking about.

That's fine, you can define your own experience however you want. But you are not the arbiter of what is rape. It's sex without consent. That's what happened to Hannah -- sex without consent.

Guys the show lives in this ambiguity - it's part of what makes this situation so challenging and hard, and it's one of the things TMS does well.

You don't have to figure it out for all time today, if sex with someone who is in a fragile state and doesn't really want to do it, but doesn't say no, meets the definition of rape or is merely upsetting and gross.

I agree, but even if you don't think it qualifies as rape, I think it's weird to dismiss it as the PP did with "unpleasant sexual experience." Mitch was Hannah's boss, he was married, and he did this kind of thing a lot. It was, at a minimum, sexual harassment. You can think he'd be unlikely to be convicted of rape and also think it was a fireable offense he'd lose a lawsuit over, and that his behavior made him pretty irredeemable as a character.

I continue to be kind of shocked by the poster on the last page who needed to have it explained what exactly it was that Mitch did "wrong."

Yeah! I don't blame you. I will guess you're a little younger, and the PP is my age or older - Gen X - where we grew up normalizing a lot of kinds of sex that now, in retrospect, seem pretty awful. On the other hand, it also feels like there's been an over-correction in these younger generations.

In any case - at the very least, Mitch was a lecherous creep who used his power to have sex with underlings who didn't feel they were in a position to say no. Whatever label we put on that, it's bad and he should not have done it - and he should have faced personal consequences (which he did!), even if not legal ones. But I do think that over and over TMS shows us situations that are deeply ambiguous, and we're supposed to experience all the conflicting thoughts and emotions that you'd really have if you knew these people.

Well said.

[Anonymous]

This week's episode was bizarre. The Evening News anchor just doesn't show up because the exec wants her to have dinner with his mother? Where they went to get her help, but when she offers her help her turns her down? Jennifer Aniston's character kisses her new boss in an open office? Seemed completely nonsensical this week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This week's episode was bizarre. The Evening News anchor just doesn't show up because the exec wants her to have dinner with his mother? Where they went to get her help, but when she offers her help her turns her down? Jennifer Aniston's character kisses her new boss in an open office? Seemed completely nonsensical this week.

Yeah, a little out there. But I enjoyed having some backstory on the show's most complicated character.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This week's episode was bizarre. The Evening News anchor just doesn't show up because the exec wants her to have dinner with his mother? Where they went to get her help, but when she offers her help her turns her down? Jennifer Aniston's character kisses her new boss in an open office? Seemed completely nonsensical this week.

Yeah, a little out there. But I enjoyed having some backstory on the show's most complicated character.

Agreed. While the logistics of Bradley and Cory going out to his moms were dumb, I enjoyed the scenes once they were there. At first Cory's behavior seems weird and totally unnecessary, because as Bradley points out, his mom seems very cool. But then when his mom turns on him -- wow.

I actually don't think it's that weird for the evening news anchor to need a last minute fill in. I mean, I'm sure it can't happen a lot, but they are in a building full of people skilled at reading news off a teleprompter with some acceptable level of gravitas. Is it really that big of a deal? The thing about Alex and Paul Marks making out in an office in full view of whomever might walk in made no sense to me, especially when it happened right after Paul freaks out about the press having photos of them. I also think there are like 40 more interesting ways that Chip could have found out about Paul and Alex so I don't understand why they went with the most boring possible way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This week's episode was bizarre. The Evening News anchor just doesn't show up because the exec wants her to have dinner with his mother? Where they went to get her help, but when she offers her help her turns her down? Jennifer Aniston's character kisses her new boss in an open office? Seemed completely nonsensical this week.

Yeah, a little out there. But I enjoyed having some backstory on the show's most complicated character.

Agreed. While the logistics of Bradley and Cory going out to his moms were dumb, I enjoyed the scenes once they were there. At first Cory's behavior seems weird and totally unnecessary, because as Bradley points out, his mom seems very cool. But then when his mom turns on him -- wow.

I actually don't think it's that weird for the evening news anchor to need a last minute fill in. I mean, I'm sure it can't happen a lot, but they are in a building full of people skilled at reading news off a teleprompter with some acceptable level of gravitas. Is it really that big of a deal? The thing about Alex and Paul Marks making out in an office in full view of whomever might walk in made no sense to me, especially when it happened right after Paul freaks out about the press having photos of them. I also think there are like 40 more interesting ways that Chip could have found out about Paul and Alex so I don't understand why they went with the most boring possible way.

The public make out session was also so weird in the context of *this* show… I actually like that there’s the mirror back to the first season’s theme re: power/consent, but there’s is no way that in a newsroom that was on eggshells post-the Mitch fallout that this would ever happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This week's episode was bizarre. The Evening News anchor just doesn't show up because the exec wants her to have dinner with his mother? Where they went to get her help, but when she offers her help her turns her down? Jennifer Aniston's character kisses her new boss in an open office? Seemed completely nonsensical this week.

Yeah, a little out there. But I enjoyed having some backstory on the show's most complicated character.

Agreed. While the logistics of Bradley and Cory going out to his moms were dumb, I enjoyed the scenes once they were there. At first Cory's behavior seems weird and totally unnecessary, because as Bradley points out, his mom seems very cool. But then when his mom turns on him -- wow.

I actually don't think it's that weird for the evening news anchor to need a last minute fill in. I mean, I'm sure it can't happen a lot, but they are in a building full of people skilled at reading news off a teleprompter with some acceptable level of gravitas. Is it really that big of a deal? The thing about Alex and Paul Marks making out in an office in full view of whomever might walk in made no sense to me, especially when it happened right after Paul freaks out about the press having photos of them. I also think there are like 40 more interesting ways that Chip could have found out about Paul and Alex so I don't understand why they went with the most boring possible way.

The public make out session was also so weird in the context of *this* show… I actually like that there’s the mirror back to the first season’s theme re: power/consent, but there’s is no way that in a newsroom that was on eggshells post-the Mitch fallout that this would ever happen.

I find their thing very believable! And I thought that what's his name spotting them making out was really funny - they played it like a horror movie.

Stella is finally a little interesting!

Cory's mom was a rollercoaster.

I was rolling my eyes very hard when suddenly everyone is lecturing everyone about Roe and abortion six seconds after the leak of the draft opinion. I didn't need to relive COVID in this show, and I really do not need to relive Dobbs. I feel like these were aiming at being like Sorkin, but even Sorkin was preachy and dull in his characters giving lectures to stupid ignorant rubes moments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This week's episode was bizarre. The Evening News anchor just doesn't show up because the exec wants her to have dinner with his mother? Where they went to get her help, but when she offers her help her turns her down? Jennifer Aniston's character kisses her new boss in an open office? Seemed completely nonsensical this week.

Yeah, a little out there. But I enjoyed having some backstory on the show's most complicated character.

Agreed. While the logistics of Bradley and Cory going out to his moms were dumb, I enjoyed the scenes once they were there. At first Cory's behavior seems weird and totally unnecessary, because as Bradley points out, his mom seems very cool. But then when his mom turns on him -- wow.

I actually don't think it's that weird for the evening news anchor to need a last minute fill in. I mean, I'm sure it can't happen a lot, but they are in a building full of people skilled at reading news off a teleprompter with some acceptable level of gravitas. Is it really that big of a deal? The thing about Alex and Paul Marks making out in an office in full view of whomever might walk in made no sense to me, especially when it happened right after Paul freaks out about the press having photos of them. I also think there are like 40 more interesting ways that Chip could have found out about Paul and Alex so I don't understand why they went with the most boring possible way.

The public make out session was also so weird in the context of *this* show… I actually like that there’s the mirror back to the first season’s theme re: power/consent, but there’s is no way that in a newsroom that was on eggshells post-the Mitch fallout that this would ever happen.

I find their thing very believable! And I thought that what's his name spotting them making out was really funny - they played it like a horror movie.

Stella is finally a little interesting!

Cory's mom was a rollercoaster.

I was rolling my eyes very hard when suddenly everyone is lecturing everyone about Roe and abortion six seconds after the leak of the draft opinion. I didn't need to relive COVID in this show, and I really do not need to relive Dobbs. I feel like these were aiming at being like Sorkin, but even Sorkin was preachy and dull in his characters giving lectures to stupid ignorant rubes moments.

I also found the Dobbs reaction on the show preachy and annoying, and I say that as someone who agrees with the emotional reaction of the characters. I think the issue was the setting -- that fashion event was the kind of shallow, vain rich person event that can be fun to watch but also makes them all look kind of vapid. So watching them react to Dobbs with all these impassioned speeches, at that event while dressed up in these expensive designer clothes, felt eye-roll inducing. It emphasize how removed they are from most people's reality right as they were getting preachy about it.

This episode felt pretty weak all around, other than the Bradley/Cory scenes with his mom. I was especially disappointed in the writing for Chris, which felt very weak, after she was so good a few weeks ago with much better material.

[Anonymous]

Ugh, yes, the Dobbs thing was so overwrought; having the characters all quote facts off the tops of their heads was pretty unbelievable (and not enjoyable!) And I was kinda with the vapid models in the bathroom with the other new Morning Show anchor - talk about an over-the-top reaction to a leaked story that she barely had time to read, much less internalize.

Totally agree that this was Sorkin-ish, but done much poorly.

Side note - I really like the Jen Aniston-Jon Hamm pairing; they have real chemistry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This week's episode was bizarre. The Evening News anchor just doesn't show up because the exec wants her to have dinner with his mother? Where they went to get her help, but when she offers her help her turns her down? Jennifer Aniston's character kisses her new boss in an open office? Seemed completely nonsensical this week.

Yeah, a little out there. But I enjoyed having some backstory on the show's most complicated character.

Can someone do a good psychoanalysis of Cory's mom, and her effects on Cory? This storyline was awful and sad, and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take from it (except for sympathy for Cory).

[Anonymous]

Corey’s Mom is blaming Cory for being born and for her bad exs behavior. Sad and complicated

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This week's episode was bizarre. The Evening News anchor just doesn't show up because the exec wants her to have dinner with his mother? Where they went to get her help, but when she offers her help her turns her down? Jennifer Aniston's character kisses her new boss in an open office? Seemed completely nonsensical this week.

Yeah, a little out there. But I enjoyed having some backstory on the show's most complicated character.

Can someone do a good psychoanalysis of Cory's mom, and her effects on Cory? This storyline was awful and sad, and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take from it (except for sympathy for Cory).

I love to psychoanalyze fictional characters, thank you so much for asking.

I think Cory's mom is completely enmeshed with him, and that as a single mom to one son, she used him as a replacement partner. He's her emotional support and has learned to validate and appease her to keep her happy, so that he could in turn get the validation and support he needed as a child. But a child should not need to take care of their parent's emotional needs in order to get validation and support -- a child should get those things from their caregivers no matter what. So this dynamic tuned Cory into a classic co-dependent people pleaser. That behavior has no doubt served him well in his career, where he has ingratiated himself with a lot of different people with enormous egos (from deep pockets like Paul Marks and Cybil, to celebrity talent like Alex, Laura, and Bradley) by knowing how to massage their egos in the right way at the right time. But it has come at a cost, as by always looking to please and serve others, he struggles to develop truly mutual relationships with anyone.

Even his attraction to Bradley is concerning because while on the surface it seems healthy for him to be interested in someone so fiercely independent, it's apparent after meeting his mom that a major part of his attraction is that Bradley is fiercely independent in the same way his mom is, and that even Bradley's rejections and efforts to distance from him have likely repeated patterns with his mom that have been going on since childhood. He probably needs years of therapy to untangle his enmeshment with his mother and learn what it looks like to have a relationship where the other person's needs are not always paramount, and where serving those needs doesn't require sacrifice and flagellation on his part.

As for Cory's mom herself, it's harder to assess with only a handful of scenes, but there's definitely a high level of narcissism at play, specifically a vulnerable narcissism where she is use to eliciting sympathy from Cory (and maybe others) in order to get what she wants. We also know so little about her background, what happened to Cory's dad, her upbringing, etc., so just much more difficult to assess. But the enmeshment and narcissism are the main components to her character from what we've seen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This week's episode was bizarre. The Evening News anchor just doesn't show up because the exec wants her to have dinner with his mother? Where they went to get her help, but when she offers her help her turns her down? Jennifer Aniston's character kisses her new boss in an open office? Seemed completely nonsensical this week.

Yeah, a little out there. But I enjoyed having some backstory on the show's most complicated character.

Can someone do a good psychoanalysis of Cory's mom, and her effects on Cory? This storyline was awful and sad, and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take from it (except for sympathy for Cory).

I love to psychoanalyze fictional characters, thank you so much for asking.

I think Cory's mom is completely enmeshed with him, and that as a single mom to one son, she used him as a replacement partner. He's her emotional support and has learned to validate and appease her to keep her happy, so that he could in turn get the validation and support he needed as a child. But a child should not need to take care of their parent's emotional needs in order to get validation and support -- a child should get those things from their caregivers no matter what. So this dynamic tuned Cory into a classic co-dependent people pleaser. That behavior has no doubt served him well in his career, where he has ingratiated himself with a lot of different people with enormous egos (from deep pockets like Paul Marks and Cybil, to celebrity talent like Alex, Laura, and Bradley) by knowing how to massage their egos in the right way at the right time. But it has come at a cost, as by always looking to please and serve others, he struggles to develop truly mutual relationships with anyone.

Even his attraction to Bradley is concerning because while on the surface it seems healthy for him to be interested in someone so fiercely independent, it's apparent after meeting his mom that a major part of his attraction is that Bradley is fiercely independent in the same way his mom is, and that even Bradley's rejections and efforts to distance from him have likely repeated patterns with his mom that have been going on since childhood. He probably needs years of therapy to untangle his enmeshment with his mother and learn what it looks like to have a relationship where the other person's needs are not always paramount, and where serving those needs doesn't require sacrifice and flagellation on his part.

As for Cory's mom herself, it's harder to assess with only a handful of scenes, but there's definitely a high level of narcissism at play, specifically a vulnerable narcissism where she is use to eliciting sympathy from Cory (and maybe others) in order to get what she wants. We also know so little about her background, what happened to Cory's dad, her upbringing, etc., so just much more difficult to assess. But the enmeshment and narcissism are the main components to her character from what we've seen.

I will need you to recap every episode of every show I like from now on, thank you

[Anonymous]

Ok I guess it is just me but I didn't understand the mom/FBI lunch/yes,no connection?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This week's episode was bizarre. The Evening News anchor just doesn't show up because the exec wants her to have dinner with his mother? Where they went to get her help, but when she offers her help her turns her down? Jennifer Aniston's character kisses her new boss in an open office? Seemed completely nonsensical this week.

Yeah, a little out there. But I enjoyed having some backstory on the show's most complicated character.

Can someone do a good psychoanalysis of Cory's mom, and her effects on Cory? This storyline was awful and sad, and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take from it (except for sympathy for Cory).

I love to psychoanalyze fictional characters, thank you so much for asking.

I think Cory's mom is completely enmeshed with him, and that as a single mom to one son, she used him as a replacement partner. He's her emotional support and has learned to validate and appease her to keep her happy, so that he could in turn get the validation and support he needed as a child. But a child should not need to take care of their parent's emotional needs in order to get validation and support -- a child should get those things from their caregivers no matter what. So this dynamic tuned Cory into a classic co-dependent people pleaser. That behavior has no doubt served him well in his career, where he has ingratiated himself with a lot of different people with enormous egos (from deep pockets like Paul Marks and Cybil, to celebrity talent like Alex, Laura, and Bradley) by knowing how to massage their egos in the right way at the right time. But it has come at a cost, as by always looking to please and serve others, he struggles to develop truly mutual relationships with anyone.

Even his attraction to Bradley is concerning because while on the surface it seems healthy for him to be interested in someone so fiercely independent, it's apparent after meeting his mom that a major part of his attraction is that Bradley is fiercely independent in the same way his mom is, and that even Bradley's rejections and efforts to distance from him have likely repeated patterns with his mom that have been going on since childhood. He probably needs years of therapy to untangle his enmeshment with his mother and learn what it looks like to have a relationship where the other person's needs are not always paramount, and where serving those needs doesn't require sacrifice and flagellation on his part.

As for Cory's mom herself, it's harder to assess with only a handful of scenes, but there's definitely a high level of narcissism at play, specifically a vulnerable narcissism where she is use to eliciting sympathy from Cory (and maybe others) in order to get what she wants. We also know so little about her background, what happened to Cory's dad, her upbringing, etc., so just much more difficult to assess. But the enmeshment and narcissism are the main components to her character from what we've seen.

I will need you to recap every episode of every show I like from now on, thank you

If there is genuine interest in this, I think I might need to look into a newsletter because this is pretty much my dream job.