Subtle signs of class

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My take on OP's post had more to do with what people choose given what the means they have than what their means are. TV and bar cart vs piano and books--exactly. The piano may me a 1900 upright instead of a Steinway baby grand, and the books may be from a thrift store but carefully selected.

OP here. Yes, this was what I was trying to explore. Should have known the DCUM crowd would devolve into arguing about private schools and tax brackets.

Agree on the distinctions. Here’s another: when you go to Portugal, is that to hang out on the beaches or to visit the museums and sip sherry?

I hate to say this, though, but I think these are distinctions between MC and UMC. Old money where there’s still lots of money have a family grand piano, but nobody can play it well.

I don’t understand the Portugal part. Most people hit the beaches and museums n

The rich don't go to Portugal. The UMC goes. MC doesn't. So this comment is odd.

The rich go to Morocco and the Amalfi Coast.

Ive been to Morocco, Amalfi and Portugal. What does that make me?
Why the hate on Portugal?

No one is hating on Portugal. Identifying it as UMC is not hate. On the contrary, UMC are the most adventurous. Now, you mocked my class and called me a Trump supporter, which makes me question your own class security. Portugal can be a fine destination without the rich flocking to it.

DP. How do you know PP called you a Trump supporter? I'm not following.

She responded to me and called me a trump supporter. Look upthread. I'm the one who wrote a profile of each class.

Oh, okay.

Can you give us a rundown on the yachting/beach locales of the rich vs. UMC? For example, Bahamas, etc.

For the Caribbean, the old money goes to Mill Reef, Caneel Bay, Round Hill or do a sailing charter in the BVIs. The nouveau riche go to St Bart’s or Anguilla - or anywhere else to be “seen.” Taking a cruise is the lowest of low classes.

I go to Round Hill every few years and am most definitely not old money. And neither is anyone I have met there. Try again!

To be clear, that pp response about round hill was not mine, the WC profile writer. I believe it was the one whose choice of Portugal as a destination is now causing tremendous class angst and nervous introspection.

What? I have gone to Portugal and Round Hill. You are an odd one!

. And I am definitely not upper class or old money or whatever else you obsess about.

Sorry, but this is why you don’t get some things. I know some super-rich who have gone to Portugal.

I am very hurt by your allegations of insensitivity and inaccuracy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, but this is why you don’t get some things. I know some super-rich who have gone to Portugal.

I am very hurt by your allegations of insensitivity and inaccuracy.


There are several of us who think you’re fun and mostly accurate. But you’re definitely not an oracle, so a little less snark, and a little more humility in the face of actual facts, would stop you teetering over the edge into obnoxious.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My take on OP's post had more to do with what people choose given what the means they have than what their means are. TV and bar cart vs piano and books--exactly. The piano may me a 1900 upright instead of a Steinway baby grand, and the books may be from a thrift store but carefully selected.

OP here. Yes, this was what I was trying to explore. Should have known the DCUM crowd would devolve into arguing about private schools and tax brackets.

Agree on the distinctions. Here’s another: when you go to Portugal, is that to hang out on the beaches or to visit the museums and sip sherry?

I hate to say this, though, but I think these are distinctions between MC and UMC. Old money where there’s still lots of money have a family grand piano, but nobody can play it well.

I don’t understand the Portugal part. Most people hit the beaches and museums n

The rich don't go to Portugal. The UMC goes. MC doesn't. So this comment is odd.

The rich go to Morocco and the Amalfi Coast.

Ive been to Morocco, Amalfi and Portugal. What does that make me?
Why the hate on Portugal?

No one is hating on Portugal. Identifying it as UMC is not hate. On the contrary, UMC are the most adventurous. Now, you mocked my class and called me a Trump supporter, which makes me question your own class security. Portugal can be a fine destination without the rich flocking to it.

DP. How do you know PP called you a Trump supporter? I'm not following.

She responded to me and called me a trump supporter. Look upthread. I'm the one who wrote a profile of each class.

Oh, okay.

Can you give us a rundown on the yachting/beach locales of the rich vs. UMC? For example, Bahamas, etc.

For the Caribbean, the old money goes to Mill Reef, Caneel Bay, Round Hill or do a sailing charter in the BVIs. The nouveau riche go to St Bart’s or Anguilla - or anywhere else to be “seen.” Taking a cruise is the lowest of low classes.

I go to Round Hill every few years and am most definitely not old money. And neither is anyone I have met there. Try again!

To be clear, that pp response about round hill was not mine, the WC profile writer. I believe it was the one whose choice of Portugal as a destination is now causing tremendous class angst and nervous introspection.

What? I have gone to Portugal and Round Hill. You are an odd one!

Look, that poster writes well and has some insight, but she’s off-base on some stuff. If this is the poster who thinks the upper class uses last names for first names, that’s just a Hollywood trope about the sad/obnoxious prep kid, and not something old money actually does. Not sure what her thing about Portugal is about, or why she keeps insisting on it.

Profile writer here. I am not the one who said last names for first names for rich or UMC. That is a distinctly middle class trend. UMC or rich may use a last name as a middle name, but not first. This trend is so well worn that it has been adopted by the working class, and given creative spellings (Carsynne, Madysen, etc). But that is how names tend to work- the upper middle class will pick a name, say, Ashley. If it catches on, within 15 years it's Trashley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, but this is why you don’t get some things. I know some super-rich who have gone to Portugal.

I am very hurt by your allegations of insensitivity and inaccuracy.

There are several of us who think you’re fun and mostly accurate. But you’re definitely not an oracle, so a little less snark, and a little more humility in the face of actual facts, would stop you teetering over the edge into obnoxious.

That was sarcasm, to be clear. I'm not concerned about whether people are offended. The MC is primed to take offense to any discussion of class, so it's unavoidable. That's why we simply pretend class doesn't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think address is the most telling part of class. Old cars old clothes ah shucks attitude— it all ends with the address in the top zip codes of beaches, mountains, historic districts, and urban enclaves like McLean.

lmao WHAT!?!

I almost chocked when I read about McLean. I live in McLean, and there are a lot of rich and trashy people. Each house like a can of worms, you won't believe the stories that going on here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Classy, upper crust names such as Brynleigh, Taislee, or Mackenzeiygh for girls.

Those names are trashy. Middle class or less.

What I want to know is what class is the follow -

- sarcasm
- dry humor (is it higher class to ask about 'dry humour' instead??)
- trolling
- failure to understand humor

please share your opinions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As requested:

The UMC man is class secure and therefore has greater range for personal expression than the MC. The current trend of dandy socks, for example, originated in the UMC before being emulated by the lower classes. UMC men are now wearing slightly mismatched prints on their suits, high top leather dress shoes/boots, and other indicators that the man has panache. The UMC woman will also take more license in her clothing than the more timid MC woman. She may wear a sheath dress with her lithe, toned arms serving as the actual fashion statement. She will not be as concerned about "looking professional" as about being stylish, although she manages to both. UMC women are less likely to have polished nails and their hair, in its ideal state, has its natural color and appears slightly undone.

The UMC places great emphasis on knowledge and learning, and this extends far beyond schooling. Their kids will be well travelled and exposed to events, people, and institutions that serve to broaden their perspective or whet their curiosity. For example, they may have their friend who works at an innovative company like google arrange for a tour, or take their kids to see how gouda cheese is made at a dairy in Holland.

The UMC man has a hobby- skiing, flying Cessnas, or sailing are preferred. The women are fit and may ski, run, or use a boutique like orangetheory. They likely have involvement in civic activities.

UMC has the most adventurous palate of the classes, preferring to consume cultural knowledge in food format. They have tried every cuisine. At the moment, the UMC has a crush on America and wants to eat it in all forms- Hawaiian, Californian, Cajun, Southern, BBQ, etc. Preferably whilst listening to distinctly American music like jazz or the blues- and the most class secure are experimenting with country and honky tonk. The UMC now prefers California wine over French, and the kost secure are in the midst of discovering the joy of sparkling wine. Cab and pinot are becoming a bit passe, unless the latter is from Oregon. So, Zinfandel is on the rise. The UMC also adores craft beer, whiskey, and tequila.

I want to hate this and dismiss it as stereotypes, but it is so-so representative of DH and me. Though I much prefer French wines, even though I live in California. Except for Los Carneros Merlots. And DH's wardrobe is completely boring

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As requested:

The UMC man is class secure and therefore has greater range for personal expression than the MC. The current trend of dandy socks, for example, originated in the UMC before being emulated by the lower classes. UMC men are now wearing slightly mismatched prints on their suits, high top leather dress shoes/boots, and other indicators that the man has panache. The UMC woman will also take more license in her clothing than the more timid MC woman. She may wear a sheath dress with her lithe, toned arms serving as the actual fashion statement. She will not be as concerned about "looking professional" as about being stylish, although she manages to both. UMC women are less likely to have polished nails and their hair, in its ideal state, has its natural color and appears slightly undone.

The UMC places great emphasis on knowledge and learning, and this extends far beyond schooling. Their kids will be well travelled and exposed to events, people, and institutions that serve to broaden their perspective or whet their curiosity. For example, they may have their friend who works at an innovative company like google arrange for a tour, or take their kids to see how gouda cheese is made at a dairy in Holland.

The UMC man has a hobby- skiing, flying Cessnas, or sailing are preferred. The women are fit and may ski, run, or use a boutique like orangetheory. They likely have involvement in civic activities.

UMC has the most adventurous palate of the classes, preferring to consume cultural knowledge in food format. They have tried every cuisine. At the moment, the UMC has a crush on America and wants to eat it in all forms- Hawaiian, Californian, Cajun, Southern, BBQ, etc. Preferably whilst listening to distinctly American music like jazz or the blues- and the most class secure are experimenting with country and honky tonk. The UMC now prefers California wine over French, and the kost secure are in the midst of discovering the joy of sparkling wine. Cab and pinot are becoming a bit passe, unless the latter is from Oregon. So, Zinfandel is on the rise. The UMC also adores craft beer, whiskey, and tequila.

I want to hate this and dismiss it as stereotypes, but it is so-so representative of DH and me. Though I much prefer French wines, even though I live in California. Except for Los Carneros Merlots. And DH's wardrobe is completely boring

I want to hear about the upper class version of this. We are UMC and the part about not having your hair down and color is a little close for comfort. Although in my kids private school the moms always have the hair done so I’m always so confused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So what do ya’ll say about people who grew up MC/UMC but now make a lot of money and have amassed millions?

Because I would say we are still UMC even though we have a lot of money relative to the population (I don’t think it is easy to change your class just because you have a grad degree and a high HHI) but this always gets shouted down when the topic comes up on the money board.

Can you be middle class yet have a bank account with say, 5 million?

More importantly- how did you make this money? And can I (early 40s woman) get into this profession??

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

totally ridiculous, mixes all kinds of stuff. the problem starts Wirh MC - which encompasses with HHI from 60k to a million

Sounds like I've hit a nerve. Rest assured that class only correlated with income, not defined by it. It is defined by outlook, tastes, and values.

But in no world are people making 1M per year of the same SES as those making 60k, which is half of the average income for a white family.

no you didn’t hit a nerve - I am an immigrant from Europe and I don’t particularly relate to American “class” thing.

your analysis just weirdly mixes up things - people who cant afford daycare and are afraid to try soul cycle and “aspire” to go to Italy buy overpriced degrees and furniture. if they know cruises are scoffed at surely they know the same is true of pottery barn furniture?

Ok so Pottery Barn sucks (and I agree about that - amazingly poor quality for the price)- where DO you find good furniture? I haven’t been able to find any real good well made pieces.

[Anonymous]

Totally hit a nerv I definitely have a fear of looking wc... why is that?!!

[Anonymous]

Vacations abroad?

Otherwise, no idea. I can tell a person's class based on the content of their conversations, not the interior of their home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

totally ridiculous, mixes all kinds of stuff. the problem starts Wirh MC - which encompasses with HHI from 60k to a million

Sounds like I've hit a nerve. Rest assured that class only correlated with income, not defined by it. It is defined by outlook, tastes, and values.

But in no world are people making 1M per year of the same SES as those making 60k, which is half of the average income for a white family.

no you didn’t hit a nerve - I am an immigrant from Europe and I don’t particularly relate to American “class” thing.

your analysis just weirdly mixes up things - people who cant afford daycare and are afraid to try soul cycle and “aspire” to go to Italy buy overpriced degrees and furniture. if they know cruises are scoffed at surely they know the same is true of pottery barn furniture?

Ok so Pottery Barn sucks (and I agree about that - amazingly poor quality for the price)- where DO you find good furniture? I haven’t been able to find any real good well made pieces.

Have to agree with Europe on this one. True MC can't afford the loans or are even able to get into a top tier college. My family has been white collar UMC for generations. My parents got a college coach (legit, not bribing kind) to further my chances to get in to the #1 worldwide school with perfect grades and scores. I had no MC friends that could afford my college much less get into it.

We also did not vacation abroad and ate at McDonald's. Different generation though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One of the things I’ve noticed is that when they are not in their homes/ cars etc you can’t tell how rich they are.

Agree. I was at a town meeting the other week with a billionaire & his wife in a small New England town. He was wearing a baseball cap, Patagonia jacket & jeans. Looked like your regular joe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The middle class man is marked by class insecurity, and can be identified by his constant attempts to not look working class. The word that most defines the MC man is "terrified". A middle class mom, for example, would be afraid to dress her child in a graphic T for fear that it would misidentify them as WC and therefore be barred from the Montessori school they're planning to afford by foregoing vacations and home maintenance.

Middle class decor is impersonal, the ideal state is to look like a Pottery Barn store. MC adults attempt to be current but understated. They shop at Banana Republic Factory and Ann Taylor Factory, along with TJ Maxx.

The MC lacks time and therefore they have limited entertainment outlets. Watching sports, premium channel television shows, and perhaps a zumba class. The MC woman who is brave may try a boutique studio like soulcycle or a yoga studio, but is worried about fitting in, wearing the right thing, and keeping up so prefers to just go to a class at the gym. MC families are very concerned the class implications of the food they eat and like to say they wouldn't ever go to McDonalds. However, they tend to be overweight.

The MC usually has relatively generous vacation time, although it is decreasing and is no longer a reliable class indicator. Vacations include beach vacations and disney. Aspirational trips are Ireland, Italy, and Iceland. The MC avoid France, except Paris, because they don't want to be seen as "ugly Americans". While on travel the MC try to fit in due to class insecurity and a belief that Americans are less sophisticated. The MC are terrified of cruises because they believe they will be seen as downwardly mobile.

The MC do not make practical financial decisions about college. They will send little Aiden to the best college possible-- defined by US News and World Report, and will take out large loans for the best name. They will send their child to a 4 year college and would be terrified of the class implications of a community college, or, God forbid, the military.

totally ridiculous, mixes all kinds of stuff. the problem starts Wirh MC - which encompasses with HHI from 60k to a million

Sounds like I've hit a nerve. Rest assured that class only correlated with income, not defined by it. It is defined by outlook, tastes, and values.

But in no world are people making 1M per year of the same SES as those making 60k, which is half of the average income for a white family.

no you didn’t hit a nerve - I am an immigrant from Europe and I don’t particularly relate to American “class” thing.

your analysis just weirdly mixes up things - people who cant afford daycare and are afraid to try soul cycle and “aspire” to go to Italy buy overpriced degrees and furniture. if they know cruises are scoffed at surely they know the same is true of pottery barn furniture?

Ok so Pottery Barn sucks (and I agree about that - amazingly poor quality for the price)- where DO you find good furniture? I haven’t been able to find any real good well made pieces.

Thomas Moser furniture. Pompanoosuc Mills