The Rush to Judge Ilhan Omar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You've all now spent vastly more time lambasting Ilhan Omar for "antisemitism" even though she didn't say anything that was actually antisemitic...

...than you did talking about the grotesque, actual and blatant islamophobia that she was targeted with via that West Virginia 9/11 terrorism poster.

There's something seriously wrong with that.

Just us? Not Congress and the media?

[Anonymous]

And what about Meghan McCain't absolutely ridiculous and totally-over-the-top blubbering defense of Israel against big mean, scary and evil Jew hating Ilhan Omar on The View?

Holy cow. Wow wow wow. Super cringey. If I were Meghan McCain I would never go on TV again after that performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You've all now spent vastly more time lambasting Ilhan Omar for "antisemitism" even though she didn't say anything that was actually antisemitic...

...than you did talking about the grotesque, actual and blatant islamophobia that she was targeted with via that West Virginia 9/11 terrorism poster.

There's something seriously wrong with that.

Just us? Not Congress and the media?

Them too. Sure, let's carry on and on and on about Ilhan Omar's non-antisemitic antisemitism while ignoring the very real islamophobia.

[Anonymous]

Unless we have the courage to examine the systemic causes of the abuses of state and private power, Israel will continue killing Palestinians until there are no more, much as what the US government did to the Native Americans. Our ancestors put Native Americans on tiny Gaza plots of land after killing most of them. Native Americans are treated about the same as are Gazans. Come see for yourself the shocking poverty on the Indian reservations.

I am really pissed off because we're not addressing the CORE PROBLEM, of the abuse of power by centralized state and private power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You've all now spent vastly more time lambasting Ilhan Omar for "antisemitism" even though she didn't say anything that was actually antisemitic...

...than you did talking about the grotesque, actual and blatant islamophobia that she was targeted with via that West Virginia 9/11 terrorism poster.

There's something seriously wrong with that.

Just us? Not Congress and the media?

Them too. Sure, let's carry on and on and on about Ilhan Omar's non-antisemitic antisemitism while ignoring the very real islamophobia.

...or swastika beer pong tables. Or Daily Caller WH correspondents joking about the Holocaust.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:The resolution opposing anti-Semitism and anti-Muslim and other hatred is currently being debated in the House. Check C-SPAN if you are interested.

Yet Omar isn't mentioned by name while a certain Republican from Iowa was named 8 weeks ago in the same resolution... double standard?

Well, to be fair, King actually said what he was criticized for saying. Omar is being criticized for something she didn't say.

How so?

What part do you want clarified? Omar's remarks are available in the first post of this thread. Read those and try to find where she accused Jews of having dual allegiance. She didn't.

why are All her criticisms of Israel and Israeli lobby the same as antisemitic tropes about Jews like Jews control others, Jews own others, etc? I’m jewish, are you? Do you think whites determine what anti black racism is?

Other than her tweet in 2012, none of the statements for which she is being criticized are about Israel. In the most recent case, she is being criticized for something she didn't even say. It is not a question of deciding what is anti-Semitic. Just read what she said and compare to what she is being accused of saying.

That’s your interpretation. Too bad every Democrat Jew doesn’t see it the way you do. Do you think they want this?

DP. I highly doubt you're a Democrat. Don't pretend that you can speak for them. It makes you look desperately manipulative.

Excuse me? That's laughable. No, I'm not a Democrat. I'm not suggesting I read their minds and this is how I believe they feel. This is what they said, and the very reason this resolution even came to be.

And Jeff, with your eternal questioning line of, "Is there any reason....?" I did read her words, and I, like many others who are on her side, find them to be offensive. You're wasting your breath defending her. Is there any reason for Jews in her party to perceive her comments to be anti-Semitic when they 100% are not? Is this a good look for the party? You're saying this as if it's a fact. Is it possible you're not in the right position to decide that for them?

She wanted a lighter sentence someone who wanted to join ISIS.

Even Snopes had difficulty with it:

Omar has not consistently promoted a policy of reducing custodial sentences for those convicted of attempting to join ISIS, and her 2016 letter was sent in the context of sentencing one individual in a specific case.

Note the bolded word. LOL

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/ilhan-omar-isis/


Case closed.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[All I'm saying is that a WHOLE LOT of Jewish people, for whom having a major disruption in their party is undesirable, are choosing (I suppose) to find her words offensive and anti-Semitic. Is it just more outrage culture? If Democrats are so whipped up by the outrage culture they have created that they can't even step back and interpret benign words the way they were intended, even when it's in their best interest to do so, then that's going to be the death of them. OTOH, if that's not what it is, perhaps you could just say that people feel the way they feel, and that her words aroused some sort of feelings in them that were negative and familiar. And if so, then there's a very good chance that the phrasing or something about her words makes them less innocent than you feel they are. If there are two distinct viewpoints on this within the Democratic party, it is clearly up for interpretation and far from factual.

When a group of Jewish leaders in MN met with her last year to tell her they were upset by things she had said, and the "Jews have hypnotized the world" comment was one among other things she had said, can we accept that their feelings and reasons were legitimate? We do not know what their other examples were.

Interesting that you misquote her 2012 tweet. In that tweet, she said that Israel had hypnotized the world, not the Jews. She later said that she didn't understand how that would be understood and apologized. But what we are discussing now, and what she was just criticized for on the floor of the US House of Representatives was her talk at Busboys and Poets. I can offer a couple of different possible explanations for the criticism. I don't know which, if any, are correct:

1) The first reports of her talk wildly mischaracterized her words. That established a narrative that has been difficult to push back. I also think that once many had reacted to the initial reports, they for whatever reason were reluctant to admit they were wrong.

2) It may be that the attacks on her have less to do with anti-Semitism and more to do with squashing any criticism of Israel and its supporters.

3) Omar's use of the word "allegiance" was unfortunate and contributed to the mischaracterization of her remarks. Had she said "support" instead, things might be different. It's possible that that single word is enough for some of her critics to basically declare "end of story" and not really concern themselves with her fuller statement.

4) Some may feel that while her words are not explicitly anti-Semitic, her intent (which assume to divine) was anti-Semitic.

5) I think that the attention paid to her 2012 tweet (for which she apologized) and her comment about the Benjamins, plus her religion, created a preconceived notion that she is anti-Semitic. This made it easy for people to assume the worst about her Busboys and Poets remarks and allowed easy acceptance of the initial mischaracterizations.

6) Lastly, the media played a significant role in broadcasting the mischaracterization of her remarks. Even now the Washington Post has an article that falsely describes what she said. I have written to the journalist and hopefully he will correct it.

You are really not in a position to yell fake news at real journalists. The WAPO accurately characterized her comments.

I can read Omar's statement, I can listen to her on the Youtube video, and I can read the Washington Post article. That puts me in the perfect position to say that the Washington Post mischaracterized her remarks. You obviously haven't done these things. I should add to my list above that some of the critics of Omar are like this PP. They don't care about the facts. They don't want their understanding of what happened to be questioned. They want Ilhan Omar to be a rabid anti-Semite, end of story. They have come to that conclusion and nothing is going to change their mind.

How you can separate Jews from Israel in your mind when Israel was created as a direct result of the holocaust is, to me, stunning.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[All I'm saying is that a WHOLE LOT of Jewish people, for whom having a major disruption in their party is undesirable, are choosing (I suppose) to find her words offensive and anti-Semitic. Is it just more outrage culture? If Democrats are so whipped up by the outrage culture they have created that they can't even step back and interpret benign words the way they were intended, even when it's in their best interest to do so, then that's going to be the death of them. OTOH, if that's not what it is, perhaps you could just say that people feel the way they feel, and that her words aroused some sort of feelings in them that were negative and familiar. And if so, then there's a very good chance that the phrasing or something about her words makes them less innocent than you feel they are. If there are two distinct viewpoints on this within the Democratic party, it is clearly up for interpretation and far from factual.

When a group of Jewish leaders in MN met with her last year to tell her they were upset by things she had said, and the "Jews have hypnotized the world" comment was one among other things she had said, can we accept that their feelings and reasons were legitimate? We do not know what their other examples were.

Interesting that you misquote her 2012 tweet. In that tweet, she said that Israel had hypnotized the world, not the Jews. She later said that she didn't understand how that would be understood and apologized. But what we are discussing now, and what she was just criticized for on the floor of the US House of Representatives was her talk at Busboys and Poets. I can offer a couple of different possible explanations for the criticism. I don't know which, if any, are correct:

1) The first reports of her talk wildly mischaracterized her words. That established a narrative that has been difficult to push back. I also think that once many had reacted to the initial reports, they for whatever reason were reluctant to admit they were wrong.

2) It may be that the attacks on her have less to do with anti-Semitism and more to do with squashing any criticism of Israel and its supporters.

3) Omar's use of the word "allegiance" was unfortunate and contributed to the mischaracterization of her remarks. Had she said "support" instead, things might be different. It's possible that that single word is enough for some of her critics to basically declare "end of story" and not really concern themselves with her fuller statement.

4) Some may feel that while her words are not explicitly anti-Semitic, her intent (which assume to divine) was anti-Semitic.

5) I think that the attention paid to her 2012 tweet (for which she apologized) and her comment about the Benjamins, plus her religion, created a preconceived notion that she is anti-Semitic. This made it easy for people to assume the worst about her Busboys and Poets remarks and allowed easy acceptance of the initial mischaracterizations.

6) Lastly, the media played a significant role in broadcasting the mischaracterization of her remarks. Even now the Washington Post has an article that falsely describes what she said. I have written to the journalist and hopefully he will correct it.

You are really not in a position to yell fake news at real journalists. The WAPO accurately characterized her comments.

I can read Omar's statement, I can listen to her on the Youtube video, and I can read the Washington Post article. That puts me in the perfect position to say that the Washington Post mischaracterized her remarks. You obviously haven't done these things. I should add to my list above that some of the critics of Omar are like this PP. They don't care about the facts. They don't want their understanding of what happened to be questioned. They want Ilhan Omar to be a rabid anti-Semite, end of story. They have come to that conclusion and nothing is going to change their mind.

How you can separate Jews from Israel in your mind when Israel was created as a direct result of the holocaust is, to me, stunning.

Jews and Israel are separate. Jews themselves say that all the time. Do you consider yourself an Israeli? Is it your position that any criticism of the Israeli government is anti-Semitic?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[All I'm saying is that a WHOLE LOT of Jewish people, for whom having a major disruption in their party is undesirable, are choosing (I suppose) to find her words offensive and anti-Semitic. Is it just more outrage culture? If Democrats are so whipped up by the outrage culture they have created that they can't even step back and interpret benign words the way they were intended, even when it's in their best interest to do so, then that's going to be the death of them. OTOH, if that's not what it is, perhaps you could just say that people feel the way they feel, and that her words aroused some sort of feelings in them that were negative and familiar. And if so, then there's a very good chance that the phrasing or something about her words makes them less innocent than you feel they are. If there are two distinct viewpoints on this within the Democratic party, it is clearly up for interpretation and far from factual.

When a group of Jewish leaders in MN met with her last year to tell her they were upset by things she had said, and the "Jews have hypnotized the world" comment was one among other things she had said, can we accept that their feelings and reasons were legitimate? We do not know what their other examples were.

Interesting that you misquote her 2012 tweet. In that tweet, she said that Israel had hypnotized the world, not the Jews. She later said that she didn't understand how that would be understood and apologized. But what we are discussing now, and what she was just criticized for on the floor of the US House of Representatives was her talk at Busboys and Poets. I can offer a couple of different possible explanations for the criticism. I don't know which, if any, are correct:

1) The first reports of her talk wildly mischaracterized her words. That established a narrative that has been difficult to push back. I also think that once many had reacted to the initial reports, they for whatever reason were reluctant to admit they were wrong.

2) It may be that the attacks on her have less to do with anti-Semitism and more to do with squashing any criticism of Israel and its supporters.

3) Omar's use of the word "allegiance" was unfortunate and contributed to the mischaracterization of her remarks. Had she said "support" instead, things might be different. It's possible that that single word is enough for some of her critics to basically declare "end of story" and not really concern themselves with her fuller statement.

4) Some may feel that while her words are not explicitly anti-Semitic, her intent (which assume to divine) was anti-Semitic.

5) I think that the attention paid to her 2012 tweet (for which she apologized) and her comment about the Benjamins, plus her religion, created a preconceived notion that she is anti-Semitic. This made it easy for people to assume the worst about her Busboys and Poets remarks and allowed easy acceptance of the initial mischaracterizations.

6) Lastly, the media played a significant role in broadcasting the mischaracterization of her remarks. Even now the Washington Post has an article that falsely describes what she said. I have written to the journalist and hopefully he will correct it.

You are really not in a position to yell fake news at real journalists. The WAPO accurately characterized her comments.

I can read Omar's statement, I can listen to her on the Youtube video, and I can read the Washington Post article. That puts me in the perfect position to say that the Washington Post mischaracterized her remarks. You obviously haven't done these things. I should add to my list above that some of the critics of Omar are like this PP. They don't care about the facts. They don't want their understanding of what happened to be questioned. They want Ilhan Omar to be a rabid anti-Semite, end of story. They have come to that conclusion and nothing is going to change their mind.

How you can separate Jews from Israel in your mind when Israel was created as a direct result of the holocaust is, to me, stunning.

Jews and Israel are separate. Jews themselves say that all the time. Do you consider yourself an Israeli? Is it your position that any criticism of the Israeli government is anti-Semitic?

Because you say so? Israel was created as a safe haven for Jews (what was left of them) to go after the Holocaust. You can't separate Jews from Israel for this very reason. I understand leftist Jews want to disassociate because of their own self-hatred, but there's nothing I can do about that.

Good luck with this position. Jewish Millenials are waking up.

[Anonymous]

And I consider the type of statements Omar (and you, frankly) make, anti-Semitic.

[Anonymous]

an interesting article (dated Feb.) addressing pro-Israel lobbying
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/15/pro-israel-donors-spent-over-22m-on-lobbying-and-contributions-in-2018
Pro-Israel donors spent over $22m on lobbying and contributions in 2018

don't know if someone cited this article earlier . . . some interesting number crunching . . .

Omar incorrectly suggested Aipac makes campaign contributions to candidates. However, records show it did spend about $3.5m lobbying during the 2018 election cycle. In total, pro-Israel lobbying groups spent about $5m in 2018, the highest tally since tracking began in 1998.

Aipac spent the most of the lobbying groups, and is known for funding junket trips to Israel for freshman lawmakers and senators, as well as state legislators. Aipac also lobbied against the Iran nuclear deal in 2015 and supported the Trump administration’s withdrawal from the agreement.

. . .

Democratic leaders who criticized Omar and demanded an apology also receive a high level of contributions from the pro-Israel lobby. Eliot Engel, chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee on which Omar sits, received $1.07m from the pro-Israel lobby during his career, more than he’s received from any other industry. In a Tuesday statement, he said “… it’s shocking to hear a Member of Congress invoke the anti-Semitic trope of ‘Jewish money.’”

Meanwhile, the pro-Israel lobby has contributed $514,000 to Pelosi throughout her career and it’s given $1.02m to Hoyer.

Interests are interests, right?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:And I consider the type of statements Omar (and you, frankly) make, anti-Semitic.

You realize that Ilhan Omar is being accused of saying that Jews have dual loyalty, something she didn't actually say. But here you are calling me an anti-Semite because I am saying that Jews don't have dual loyalty because Jews and Israel are separate. So, according to you, Omar is an anti-Semite for saying that Jews have dual loyalty yand I am an anti-Semite because I don't think Jews have dual loyalty. On top of that, according to you, leftist Jews are self-haters. I think you have issues.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I consider the type of statements Omar (and you, frankly) make, anti-Semitic.

You realize that Ilhan Omar is being accused of saying that Jews have dual loyalty, something she didn't actually say. But here you are calling me an anti-Semite because I am saying that Jews don't have dual loyalty because Jews and Israel are separate. So, according to you, Omar is an anti-Semite for saying that Jews have dual loyalty yand I am an anti-Semite because I don't think Jews have dual loyalty. On top of that, according to you, leftist Jews are self-haters. I think you have issues.

You are focusing on one statement that Omar made. I'm focusing on the whole of Omar. Don't worry; she's been emboldened and will eventually state something that even you can't defend.

Personally, I think your defense of all things Islam is disturbing to me as a Jew, who has seen Muslims physically recoil from me when they find out I'm Jewish.

Zeldin spoke well.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And I consider the type of statements Omar (and you, frankly) make, anti-Semitic.

You realize that Ilhan Omar is being accused of saying that Jews have dual loyalty, something she didn't actually say. But here you are calling me an anti-Semite because I am saying that Jews don't have dual loyalty because Jews and Israel are separate. So, according to you, Omar is an anti-Semite for saying that Jews have dual loyalty yand I am an anti-Semite because I don't think Jews have dual loyalty. On top of that, according to you, leftist Jews are self-haters. I think you have issues.

You are focusing on one statement that Omar made. I'm focusing on the whole of Omar. Don't worry; she's been emboldened and will eventually state something that even you can't defend.

Personally, I think your defense of all things Islam is disturbing to me as a Jew, who has seen Muslims physically recoil from me when they find out I'm Jewish.

Zeldin spoke well.

Cool. It's interesting that you frequent a business owned by someone you consider an anti-Semite. I'm not surprised that you once against demonstrated your bigotry towards Muslims. How would you react to someone saying that defense of Jews was disturbing because a few Jews have been rude to them? Considering all of a group to be bad because of a few individuals is pretty straightforward bigotry. You demonstrate it almost daily. Just go away and we will both be happier.

[Anonymous]

I just can't even with all of the right wing hypocrisy everywhere.