Why are so many women here so angry with / resentful toward women who stay home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought feminism was freeng women from societal norms so they could chose who they wanted to be and not be forced by society into pre-conceived roles? So who gets to choose for the individual woman - the woman or society? Is society now choosing that women must WOH or be thought less than those who do? Just like years ago women who WOH were thought to be less than those who SAH? I thought feminism meant women got to choose for themselves. Now other women are choosing for them?

You're being purposely disingenuous

No, I am not. If feminism was about women seizing control of their own destiny and choosing what they want for their own lives rather than being forced into a role or denied opportunities available to men, then why is the choice to SAH denied to them (or at least undervalued) by other women?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have any of you heard of a third wave feminist? Well, I consider myself a fourth wave feminist. I do what I want, how I want to do it. I am equal in mental capacity to any equivalently educated male and physically dominate over a good percentage of them. If I want to work, I work. If I want to stay home and eat meat that my man makes me, I do that. I will either homeschool my kids with organic handmade toys or ship them off to Phillips Andover at 13. I don't follow the rule of some woman who spent 20 years earning the approval of her teachers and now can't function outside of an accomplishment based system. I am going to take my masters degree and troll Harris teeter in lululemon all f-ing day. My life. My choice. Period. [/quot

+1 million!

But, it's not about that. As much as you'd like it to be. It's about the money. If women were paid to stay home like they are paid to do any other job, there would be no discussion. You can't have lululemon unless someone paid for it. If it wasn't you, then you are dependent on a man. That's not feminist.

I am research scientist who makes $55K/ year. I married a lawyer who makes much more than that. Am I not able to consider myself a feminist because my husband makes significantly more than be and our family lives a lifestyle that simply would not be possible if it were just my income?

[Anonymous]

I haven't read this whole thread, so likely someone has already pointed this out, but being a sahm does not mean that is the only thing you ever did. I'm a former scientist turned sahm. My kids love hearing about the research that I used to do, and I am instilling a love of science in both my son and my daughter. I doubt my daughter would list becoming an astronaut as one of her aspirations if she was hanging out with a nanny after school instead of watching NASA videos of the ISS with me. I actually worked part time until my second child was born, and frankly, because I made it a point to always work around my first child's schedule, he didn't even notice that I was working. So, if you think that the only example of women having choices is by taking time away from your kids, you're wrong. Kudos to those who have flexible jobs that allow them to be there for their kids when needed, without a whole lot of stress on the entire family. For many of us, that is not realistic. My staying home benefits my entire family by allowing us to always make whatever choice is best for the kids (such as keeping them at home when they are even slightly sick and not worrying about summer plans) without the stress of dealing with an employer's expectations. With my particular career, that flexibility would not have been possible if I continued to woh. My former professsional interests have a greater influence on my kids' interests than my husband's current career because I get to spend more time with our kids than he does. So, if anything, by staying home, I am actually guiding my daughter toward interests in stem to a greater extent than if I was still woh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, so likely someone has already pointed this out, but being a sahm does not mean that is the only thing you ever did. I'm a former scientist turned sahm. My kids love hearing about the research that I used to do, and I am instilling a love of science in both my son and my daughter. I doubt my daughter would list becoming an astronaut as one of her aspirations if she was hanging out with a nanny after school instead of watching NASA videos of the ISS with me. I actually worked part time until my second child was born, and frankly, because I made it a point to always work around my first child's schedule, he didn't even notice that I was working. So, if you think that the only example of women having choices is by taking time away from your kids, you're wrong. Kudos to those who have flexible jobs that allow them to be there for their kids when needed, without a whole lot of stress on the entire family. For many of us, that is not realistic. My staying home benefits my entire family by allowing us to always make whatever choice is best for the kids (such as keeping them at home when they are even slightly sick and not worrying about summer plans) without the stress of dealing with an employer's expectations. With my particular career, that flexibility would not have been possible if I continued to woh. My former professsional interests have a greater influence on my kids' interests than my husband's current career because I get to spend more time with our kids than he does. So, if anything, by staying home, I am actually guiding my daughter toward interests in stem to a greater extent than if I was still woh.

Cool story Bridget .

[Anonymous]

90% of the posts on this thread are just sad and pathetic. You are all horrible role models. Society isn't somethimg that any one person designs according to her values. It is made up of individuals who make independent choices. Now shut up, get over it, and go back to over controlling/designing that big project everyone will forget about by next year or your kid who will not end up as the next Gauss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:90% of the posts on this thread are just sad and pathetic. You are all horrible role models. Society isn't somethimg that any one person designs according to her values. It is made up of individuals who make independent choices. Now shut up, get over it, and go back to over controlling/designing that big project everyone will forget about by next year or your kid who will not end up as the next Gauss.

There now, feel better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yep, all worm food in the end.

Yup, life is too short to give a F what others choose to do. Live and let live, different strokes for different folks. Not everyone is work-driven and ambitious, and that's okay.

Those that spew vitriol in either side - it reflects something unsettled within themselves. Ultimately we can't care what others think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read this whole thread, so likely someone has already pointed this out, but being a sahm does not mean that is the only thing you ever did. I'm a former scientist turned sahm. My kids love hearing about the research that I used to do, and I am instilling a love of science in both my son and my daughter. I doubt my daughter would list becoming an astronaut as one of her aspirations if she was hanging out with a nanny after school instead of watching NASA videos of the ISS with me. I actually worked part time until my second child was born, and frankly, because I made it a point to always work around my first child's schedule, he didn't even notice that I was working. So, if you think that the only example of women having choices is by taking time away from your kids, you're wrong. Kudos to those who have flexible jobs that allow them to be there for their kids when needed, without a whole lot of stress on the entire family. For many of us, that is not realistic. My staying home benefits my entire family by allowing us to always make whatever choice is best for the kids (such as keeping them at home when they are even slightly sick and not worrying about summer plans) without the stress of dealing with an employer's expectations. With my particular career, that flexibility would not have been possible if I continued to woh. My former professsional interests have a greater influence on my kids' interests than my husband's current career because I get to spend more time with our kids than he does. So, if anything, by staying home, I am actually guiding my daughter toward interests in stem to a greater extent than if I was still woh.

+1. Those of us who had children late in life have had amazing careers and I don't think my children will suffer in any way if I take time off to raise them. Granted, I will try to work 1 day a week after the baby is born, so I'm not a true stay at home mom. Although I technically have to rely on my husband to cover most of our expenses, I can get a job very quickly and when I work full time, I make much more than my husband. Feminism is about giving women a choice. It doesn't mean we all have to slave away outside of the home. It means we get to choose whether we want to stay home or work elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reality is the sum total of everyone's choices.

If you truly agree that our daughters' can aspire to achieve their greatest dreams, assuming that their dreams may not include being a SAHM along the route, then you are doing a great disservice to the next generation of women by staying at home throughout their upbringing modeling the second sex.

This is beyond economics. For many of us, it's a gender fight we chose to fight because we believe the best way to advance gender equality in society is through participating in the workforce achieving our dreams.

No one would ask similar questions from men. Men are assumed to be capable fathers with careers.

Google Fortune 100 boards and talk with your daughters during Women's History Month. March. Sadly, many schools don't even teach women's history until HS.

We have a POTUS USA placemat filled with white men, and Obama. I hope my grandchildren will see a woman on that mat one day. If you don't think this unequal representation limits little girls ambition, you are illogical.

If you think a woman's place is in the home, by all means, mentor and teach your girls to be SAHMs.

This. A 100% this!

The purpose of working whether you are male or female isn't simplt to earn a paycheck to pay bills. Since the dawn of human civilization, our culture had evolved such that the females of our species had been bound by childcare and their weaker physique to fully participate in aspects of life outside the home and family. We had no say in government, sciences, business, technology or the arts.

The only thing we were good for were child bearing and child rearing. Within the past 100 years, we finally have the opportunity to do something in addition to child bearing and child rearing. No one says raising children isn't important, it is, but so is being a fully actualized and free individual with your own thoughts, ideas and skill set. The ability to gain knowledge in fields other than home economics and to be able to apply to any job or position we want is unprecedented and a miracle considering where we've been!!

How many SAHMs in Mclean that spend their days wiping poop and getting Botox could have been the next president, or cured cancer or written the next great American novel?

This isn't about childcare, it's about blatant laziness.

It's worrisome because these SAHMs are terrible role models got little girls.

I understand what you are saying, but you are missing one very important piece. The problem is not that some women stay home to raise their kids. The problem is that, those few brave SAHDs out there notwithstanding, the *expectation* of society is that *women* will be the ones to stay home (if anyone does) and that the work of raising children is viewed as unimportant. If we reach the point where it is equally expected that a mother *or father* might stay home with the children when they are young and this time is viewed as important for those children *AND* we also start to value the work of caregivers who are not parents (nannies, day-care providers), then we will find ourselves in a much better place. You want a better society? Make sure all children are raised in a nurturing environment by people who want to be with them.

Not everyone wants to be a CEO. There are many ways for women to be a fully actualized and free individual. Many SAHMs contribute enormously to society in the volunteering work they do. I could go on, but please stop acting like there is only one way to be a valuable woman.

You said it perfectly. The thread should end here.

[Anonymous]

To the people arguing that we shouldn't teach future SAHMs or DCPs how to read and write, if that were true, how could we expect them to turn around and teach children to read and write?

[Anonymous]

I don't hate them. I wish I had their options.

Extreme people on either end of anything say stupid things. Women's choices (alas) are no different.

[Anonymous]

I do think that in some way SAHM's contribute to the "Mom Industrial Complex." I am someone who was extremely ill-suited to being a stay at home mom and who was deeply unhappy as a SAHM. Unfortunately, in a society there is still this idea of the toned woman who is happy and organized and completely fulfilled by staying at home, doing crafts and decorating. This ideal can be harmful to people who don't fit this ideal -- for whatever reason (just like the ideal of the Alpha Male can be harmful to guys who don't fit this mold).

I'm older now but as I look back, I do think that I was harmed by the incredible expectations that we encounter from so many sources that say: You should volunteer to stay home, you should love it and you shouldn't feel resentful or conflicted.

I would look around and think "If Sheryl is fine introducing herself to people as someone who used to be a lawyer, and if Annie has no problem with having a law degree from Duke and never practicing law ever again, then there's something wrong with me because I"m so unhappy doing the same."

I hope that my girls won't end up feeling the same way in fifteen or twenty years -- feeling like they're kind of forced by society to give the whole SAHM thing a try, and feeling like a failure if it didn't work out for them.

That's the thing. You all can argue that SAHM'ing is a perfectly reasonable choice that you chose freely , but your "choosing" it makes it harder for those who don't choose it, because it establishes the ideal that choosing to SAHM is the norm and those who choose otherwise are aberrrant, selfish, entitled, whatever.

[Anonymous]

You're never going to convince me that the bitter working women on here spewing hatred aren't somehow jealous. You only get angry and worked up like this if it somehow personally involves your emotions.

If they were truly, genuinely happy with their choices they wouldn't give a rat's ass about what someone else is doing. They *claim* to have better things to think about and yet this is how they choose to spend their time? Doesn't add up. I am a working mom and I know that I am jealous of people how have more money and will be spending their day today driving around in their BMW carefree on the way to barre class. Alas, I have a mortgage to pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think that in some way SAHM's contribute to the "Mom Industrial Complex." I am someone who was extremely ill-suited to being a stay at home mom and who was deeply unhappy as a SAHM. Unfortunately, in a society there is still this idea of the toned woman who is happy and organized and completely fulfilled by staying at home, doing crafts and decorating. This ideal can be harmful to people who don't fit this ideal -- for whatever reason (just like the ideal of the Alpha Male can be harmful to guys who don't fit this mold).

I'm older now but as I look back, I do think that I was harmed by the incredible expectations that we encounter from so many sources that say: You should volunteer to stay home, you should love it and you shouldn't feel resentful or conflicted.

I would look around and think "If Sheryl is fine introducing herself to people as someone who used to be a lawyer, and if Annie has no problem with having a law degree from Duke and never practicing law ever again, then there's something wrong with me because I"m so unhappy doing the same."

I hope that my girls won't end up feeling the same way in fifteen or twenty years -- feeling like they're kind of forced by society to give the whole SAHM thing a try, and feeling like a failure if it didn't work out for them.

That's the thing. You all can argue that SAHM'ing is a perfectly reasonable choice that you chose freely , but your "choosing" it makes it harder for those who don't choose it, because it establishes the ideal that choosing to SAHM is the norm and those who choose otherwise are aberrrant, selfish, entitled, whatever.

This is all in your head. Read what you wrote again. It's all about how you feel and how you ASSume people feel about you and your choices. No one outside of you immediate family cares whether you are working or not. Don't you get that??

SAH is not for you. Fine. Go back to work. Just don't malign the women who do derive a sense of purpose and satisfaction from it. You don't want them doing that to you, so you shouldn't do that to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're never going to convince me that the bitter working women on here spewing hatred aren't somehow jealous. You only get angry and worked up like this if it somehow personally involves your emotions.

If they were truly, genuinely happy with their choices they wouldn't give a rat's ass about what someone else is doing. They *claim* to have better things to think about and yet this is how they choose to spend their time? Doesn't add up. I am a working mom and I know that I am jealous of people how have more money and will be spending their day today driving around in their BMW carefree on the way to barre class. Alas, I have a mortgage to pay.

My thoughts/situation exactly