Why is there such a racial/ethnic disconnect with TJ Admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actual cases:

"Student 1: Perfect Scores on Math Test, GPA, and Teacher Recommendations. Received Average Score on Essays and SIS. REJECTED.

Student 2: Lowest Scores for All semi-finalists for Math Test, GPA, and Teacher Recs. Received Top Essays and SIS Scores. ACCEPTED."

How would anyone know this information about other people's children? The candidates are never given their scores for the recommendations, essays, and SIS.

Apparently, an education group obtained some data with personal information redacted for presentation to FCPS.

Well, then If these are the same ones a group used a year or so ago, they are hypotheticals someone came up with to make a point. They are not actual stats from real eighth graders.

Assuming these are hypothetical cases that can occur, the cases illustrate what has been going on and why applicants strong in math/science are sometimes rejected and applicants weak in math/science are sometimes accepted. Also, the cases illustrate why weak applicants may be admitted over stronger students. the process should really be completely revamped.

These "cases" are someone's idea of the extremes of what could possibly happen. There is no evidence that these "actual cases" have actually happened. To be honest, they have all the appearances of being quite unlikely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actual cases:

"Student 1: Perfect Scores on Math Test, GPA, and Teacher Recommendations. Received Average Score on Essays and SIS. REJECTED.

Student 2: Lowest Scores for All semi-finalists for Math Test, GPA, and Teacher Recs. Received Top Essays and SIS Scores. ACCEPTED."

How would anyone know this information about other people's children? The candidates are never given their scores for the recommendations, essays, and SIS.

Apparently, an education group obtained some data with personal information redacted for presentation to FCPS.

Well, then If these are the same ones a group used a year or so ago, they are hypotheticals someone came up with to make a point. They are not actual stats from real eighth graders.

Assuming these are hypothetical cases that can occur, the cases illustrate what has been going on and why applicants strong in math/science are sometimes rejected and applicants weak in math/science are sometimes accepted. Also, the cases illustrate why weak applicants may be admitted over stronger students. the process should really be completely revamped.

These "cases" are someone's idea of the extremes of what could possibly happen. There is no evidence that these "actual cases" have actually happened. To be honest, they have all the appearances of being quite unlikely.

My DC had perfect GPA, 99/100 score, highest teacher recommendations, high SIS and average essay (checked with admissions office) and was put on a waiting list.

I also heard of other cases where applicants with perfect GPA and test scores of 95+ getting rejected.

[Anonymous]

My DC had perfect GPA, 99/100 score, highest teacher recommendations, high SIS and average essay (checked with admissions office) and was put on a waiting list.

I also heard of other cases where applicants with perfect GPA and test scores of 95+ getting rejected.

TJ admissions are very similar to college admissions in that many, many students are very well qualified, but there are just not enough spaces for every applicant. College admissions can yield some very big surprises in whom is accepted and whom is not. It is indeed disappointing for the students, but the fact is that they have to do their very best on every part of the application. When there are only 480 spaces available, it is unfortunate, but they have to draw a line somewhere. Sadly, someone ends up right over that line and truly is just as good a student as the one who ends up right over the other side of the line.
If this helps any, my child has met a number of kids who got in off the wait list, so there is hope.

I didn't know the office would give out scores for the SIS, recommendations, and essays. Do you just call the office and ask?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actual cases:

"Student 1: Perfect Scores on Math Test, GPA, and Teacher Recommendations. Received Average Score on Essays and SIS. REJECTED.

Student 2: Lowest Scores for All semi-finalists for Math Test, GPA, and Teacher Recs. Received Top Essays and SIS Scores. ACCEPTED."

Student 1: white male
Student 2: black female
I am not kidding. I see this at TJ every day of the week. And many tutoring sessions with guess who?

[Anonymous]

Completely flawed. I personally know several whose scores on the entrance test were very low and they were accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actual cases:

"Student 1: Perfect Scores on Math Test, GPA, and Teacher Recommendations. Received Average Score on Essays and SIS. REJECTED.

Student 2: Lowest Scores for All semi-finalists for Math Test, GPA, and Teacher Recs. Received Top Essays and SIS Scores. ACCEPTED."

Student 1: white male
Student 2: black female
I am not kidding. I see this at TJ every day of the week. And many tutoring sessions with guess who?

who?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Apparently Superintendent Garza would like to consider an early admissions option for TJ -- from a Washington Post article: "For the county’s brightest students, Garza plans to open advanced academic centers, and she is considering an “early admission” option for high-scoring applicants to the elite Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology."

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was looking at the statistics for the TJ admissions this year. Why is the racial/ethnic makeup so much different from that of Fairfax County, and neighboring counties, as a whole? I do not believe any one particular race is smarter than another, so please don't tell me that. I don't think one race tries harder than another race either. But it is quite obvious that certain segments of our society are under-represented, and the trend looks to be getting worse. Why is this happenning?

"The point is, of the people that can claim such qualifications (comfortable wealth, right connections), disproportionately small percentage (much smaller than 6%) would be Asians. I don't have the data but I would suspect 1% at most would be Asians, maybe 2 or 3% other minorities, 2 or 3 % others and vast majority (more than 90%) would be white. Since people love to cite disproportionately small % of blacks/Hispanics at TJ compared to their % of population, what about disproportionately small % of Asians who qualify for this criteria of upper class with money and connections despite hard work and study for decades? Work hard, study hard and you can achieve anything in America. Isn't that the American dream? Why is low numbers of blacks/Hispanic in magnet schools such a dire problem discussed almost at every chance with lawsuits and complaints being filed and politicians tripping over themselves to appear politically correct while myriad of discrimination against Asians are ignored? They are not just ignored they are almost condemned if they even dare to raise the issues such as reverse discrimination of Asian Americans in college Admissions, employment discrimination of Asian Americans, almost universal negative portrayal of Asian Americans in pop culture (Movies, TV etc.) and media, discrimination against Asians in Hollywood, entertainment industry etc. Basically, Asian Americans are forced into technical field such as STEM since there is less discrimination in those fields and there are less blacks/Hispanic who are coveted and less whites since many whites prefer more diverse jobs. It is not necessarily because Asians are born with some sort of STEM genes and love to study calculus and physics more than other races. I suspect vast majority of whites screaming about lack of blacks/Hispanics at TJ will qualify as the upper class whites comfortable enough so that they have many options in life; they can send their children to privates if they wanted so no need to sweat for TJ, no problem with college tuition since full pay is no issue etc. etc. You really don't know how it is until you actually experience something yourself. At least blacks.Hispanics have sufficient political clout to have their issues out in public. Asians don't even have that. Society will be judged by how they treat their weakest."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was looking at the statistics for the TJ admissions this year. Why is the racial/ethnic makeup so much different from that of Fairfax County, and neighboring counties, as a whole? I do not believe any one particular race is smarter than another, so please don't tell me that. I don't think one race tries harder than another race either. But it is quite obvious that certain segments of our society are under-represented, and the trend looks to be getting worse. Why is this happenning?

"The point is, of the people that can claim such qualifications (comfortable wealth, right connections), disproportionately small percentage (much smaller than 6%) would be Asians. I don't have the data but I would suspect 1% at most would be Asians, maybe 2 or 3% other minorities, 2 or 3 % others and vast majority (more than 90%) would be white. Since people love to cite disproportionately small % of blacks/Hispanics at TJ compared to their % of population, what about disproportionately small % of Asians who qualify for this criteria of upper class with money and connections despite hard work and study for decades? Work hard, study hard and you can achieve anything in America. Isn't that the American dream? Why is low numbers of blacks/Hispanic in magnet schools such a dire problem discussed almost at every chance with lawsuits and complaints being filed and politicians tripping over themselves to appear politically correct while myriad of discrimination against Asians are ignored? They are not just ignored they are almost condemned if they even dare to raise the issues such as reverse discrimination of Asian Americans in college Admissions, employment discrimination of Asian Americans, almost universal negative portrayal of Asian Americans in pop culture (Movies, TV etc.) and media, discrimination against Asians in Hollywood, entertainment industry etc. Basically, Asian Americans are forced into technical field such as STEM since there is less discrimination in those fields and there are less blacks/Hispanic who are coveted and less whites since many whites prefer more diverse jobs. It is not necessarily because Asians are born with some sort of STEM genes and love to study calculus and physics more than other races. I suspect vast majority of whites screaming about lack of blacks/Hispanics at TJ will qualify as the upper class whites comfortable enough so that they have many options in life; they can send their children to privates if they wanted so no need to sweat for TJ, no problem with college tuition since full pay is no issue etc. etc. You really don't know how it is until you actually experience something yourself. At least blacks.Hispanics have sufficient political clout to have their issues out in public. Asians don't even have that. Society will be judged by how they treat their weakest."

Well said.

I send my kids (starting in kindergarten) to a summer academic camp. The racial composition of the camp is probably 85% Asian, 10% white and 5% Black/Hispanics. I suspect TJ acceptance rate of the students at this camp would be 25% for Asian students, 75% for the white students and 95%+ for the black/Hispanics students.

Is it fair? Yes. Do Asians complain? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was looking at the statistics for the TJ admissions this year. Why is the racial/ethnic makeup so much different from that of Fairfax County, and neighboring counties, as a whole? I do not believe any one particular race is smarter than another, so please don't tell me that. I don't think one race tries harder than another race either. But it is quite obvious that certain segments of our society are under-represented, and the trend looks to be getting worse. Why is this happenning?

"The point is, of the people that can claim such qualifications (comfortable wealth, right connections), disproportionately small percentage (much smaller than 6%) would be Asians. I don't have the data but I would suspect 1% at most would be Asians, maybe 2 or 3% other minorities, 2 or 3 % others and vast majority (more than 90%) would be white. Since people love to cite disproportionately small % of blacks/Hispanics at TJ compared to their % of population, what about disproportionately small % of Asians who qualify for this criteria of upper class with money and connections despite hard work and study for decades? Work hard, study hard and you can achieve anything in America. Isn't that the American dream? Why is low numbers of blacks/Hispanic in magnet schools such a dire problem discussed almost at every chance with lawsuits and complaints being filed and politicians tripping over themselves to appear politically correct while myriad of discrimination against Asians are ignored? They are not just ignored they are almost condemned if they even dare to raise the issues such as reverse discrimination of Asian Americans in college Admissions, employment discrimination of Asian Americans, almost universal negative portrayal of Asian Americans in pop culture (Movies, TV etc.) and media, discrimination against Asians in Hollywood, entertainment industry etc. Basically, Asian Americans are forced into technical field such as STEM since there is less discrimination in those fields and there are less blacks/Hispanic who are coveted and less whites since many whites prefer more diverse jobs. It is not necessarily because Asians are born with some sort of STEM genes and love to study calculus and physics more than other races. I suspect vast majority of whites screaming about lack of blacks/Hispanics at TJ will qualify as the upper class whites comfortable enough so that they have many options in life; they can send their children to privates if they wanted so no need to sweat for TJ, no problem with college tuition since full pay is no issue etc. etc. You really don't know how it is until you actually experience something yourself. At least blacks.Hispanics have sufficient political clout to have their issues out in public. Asians don't even have that. Society will be judged by how they treat their weakest."

Well said.

I send my kids (starting in kindergarten) to a summer academic camp. The racial composition of the camp is probably 85% Asian, 10% white and 5% Black/Hispanics. I suspect TJ acceptance rate of the students at this camp would be 25% for Asian students, 75% for the white students and 95%+ for the black/Hispanics students.

Is it unfair? Yes. Do Asians complain? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was looking at the statistics for the TJ admissions this year. Why is the racial/ethnic makeup so much different from that of Fairfax County, and neighboring counties, as a whole? I do not believe any one particular race is smarter than another, so please don't tell me that. I don't think one race tries harder than another race either. But it is quite obvious that certain segments of our society are under-represented, and the trend looks to be getting worse. Why is this happenning?

"The point is, of the people that can claim such qualifications (comfortable wealth, right connections), disproportionately small percentage (much smaller than 6%) would be Asians. I don't have the data but I would suspect 1% at most would be Asians, maybe 2 or 3% other minorities, 2 or 3 % others and vast majority (more than 90%) would be white. Since people love to cite disproportionately small % of blacks/Hispanics at TJ compared to their % of population, what about disproportionately small % of Asians who qualify for this criteria of upper class with money and connections despite hard work and study for decades? Work hard, study hard and you can achieve anything in America. Isn't that the American dream? Why is low numbers of blacks/Hispanic in magnet schools such a dire problem discussed almost at every chance with lawsuits and complaints being filed and politicians tripping over themselves to appear politically correct while myriad of discrimination against Asians are ignored? They are not just ignored they are almost condemned if they even dare to raise the issues such as reverse discrimination of Asian Americans in college Admissions, employment discrimination of Asian Americans, almost universal negative portrayal of Asian Americans in pop culture (Movies, TV etc.) and media, discrimination against Asians in Hollywood, entertainment industry etc. Basically, Asian Americans are forced into technical field such as STEM since there is less discrimination in those fields and there are less blacks/Hispanic who are coveted and less whites since many whites prefer more diverse jobs. It is not necessarily because Asians are born with some sort of STEM genes and love to study calculus and physics more than other races. I suspect vast majority of whites screaming about lack of blacks/Hispanics at TJ will qualify as the upper class whites comfortable enough so that they have many options in life; they can send their children to privates if they wanted so no need to sweat for TJ, no problem with college tuition since full pay is no issue etc. etc. You really don't know how it is until you actually experience something yourself. At least blacks.Hispanics have sufficient political clout to have their issues out in public. Asians don't even have that. Society will be judged by how they treat their weakest."

Well said.

I send my kids (starting in kindergarten) to a summer academic camp. The racial composition of the camp is probably 85% Asian, 10% white and 5% Black/Hispanics. I suspect TJ acceptance rate of the students at this camp would be 25% for Asian students, 75% for the white students and 95%+ for the black/Hispanics students.

Is it unfair? Yes. Do Asians complain? No.

It would be odd for Asians to complain when your suspicion about future TJ admissions likely has no basis in fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually one of the reasons that Asians in the US are overrepresented in academic achievements is because you have a unbalanced sample set. The majority of the Asians who come to the US do so to come for college, graduate school or to accept high tech or otherwise highly skilled positions. It is very difficult for Asians to emigrate to the US except for academic reasons. Many other races have alternative means of emigrating to the US, but education and highly skilled positions are the vast majority of the opportunities for Asians. So, you have an exceptionally highly intelligent subset of Asians that become US immigrants and end up staying in the US. The average and even slightly above average Asian students don't come to the US. These Asians then breed offspring who tend to be more intelligent than average for their race. That plus most Asian cultures stress academic achievement as a standard make them more competitive in academic situations.

The reason that TJ and selective schools tend to be overrepresented vs other public schools is that Asians place such a high stress on education that many of them will try to send their children to advance or magnet programs even if they have to move to do so and fewer leave their children in public schools, so you have a higher percentage of the Asian population going to select schools leaving fewer in the public school system.

Actually many Asians come to US based on family connections more so than based on employment. In addition, Asians who come to US on student visas to attend colleges/graduate schools are on temporary visas so they must leave US once schooling is complete unless they are offered permanent positions and offer of permanent employment is not that common due to their lack of permanent resident status/citizenship/clearance etc.

As for relocating, that may happen in some cases but it is not common due to high cost and other issues such as obtaining new jobs etc. with relocating.

In my experience (my parents are Asians who came over in the 1950's), many of the Asians who come over for family connections do so for education and are sponsored by the family members. They come to attend school here and stay and they do tend to be among the cream of the crop. I've seen many, many families where the smartest of the cousins comes to the US and are sponsored by the one family member who came over in the previous generation (the uncle or aunt). That family member sponsors them, they study and they stay and they end up sponsoring the next of the cousins/nieces/nephews who will come over. So your two categories, those with family connections and those coming for education include a largely overlapping subset of the more intelligent members of large families who can stay beyond student visas. I've personally seen hundreds of such candidates.

Even the broke Asians that come over here focus on education.

It's interesting, but no one wants to admit it. Asians focus on education to get ahead and hope their kids have a better life.

Blacks and Hispanics focus less on education and instead, complain to the man that they are being held back.

Blacks should have an advantage over other minorities because they actually spoke the English language, but someone that language has evolved into ebonics.

So much ignorance in your post. How I wish TJ were closed, so that people like you would have one less soapbox from which to expound your misguided theories about Asian superiority.

How is saying Asians focus on education compared to other groups expounding Asian superiority? How is focusing on education a basis for wanting TJ closed? Your post doesn't make sense.

Blacks focus too much on becoming the next Lebron, the next MJ, the next Deion Sanders, the next RG3, rapper, sports agent, basketball summer league organizer, etc.

all the top sports agents are white.

arn tellem, leigh steinberg, scott boras, drew rosenhaus, condon....

don't mistake jay-z for a sports agent - he's the face of roc nation sports and CAA does the actual heavy lifting.

I can't think of a single black power-agent.

[Anonymous]

why is it ok to discriminate based on athletic skills (done everyday in sports from peewee to professional) but not in academics?

I think it is awesome that other races jump higher, run faster, have most muscle density...i wish i had that kind of build and genetic predispositions. I would be proud of it.

it is weird that people are comfortable with physical traits being inheritable but not mental traits. as if genetics and heritability only work neck down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My DC had perfect GPA, 99/100 score, highest teacher recommendations, high SIS and average essay (checked with admissions office) and was put on a waiting list.

I also heard of other cases where applicants with perfect GPA and test scores of 95+ getting rejected.

TJ admissions are very similar to college admissions in that many, many students are very well qualified, but there are just not enough spaces for every applicant. College admissions can yield some very big surprises in whom is accepted and whom is not. It is indeed disappointing for the students, but the fact is that they have to do their very best on every part of the application. When there are only 480 spaces available, it is unfortunate, but they have to draw a line somewhere. Sadly, someone ends up right over that line and truly is just as good a student as the one who ends up right over the other side of the line.
If this helps any, my child has met a number of kids who got in off the wait list, so there is hope.

I didn't know the office would give out scores for the SIS, recommendations, and essays. Do you just call the office and ask?

IF TJ and College admissions were as transparent as nba recruiting, it wouldn't be blacks/latinos that would complain it would be white people.

UCLA and Berkeley are on white people's 'shit list' for this very reason.

See the comment in the 'pacific northwest is tall' thread - a commenter wrote that living in seattle is great but the increased asians make schools stressful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually one of the reasons that Asians in the US are overrepresented in academic achievements is because you have a unbalanced sample set. The majority of the Asians who come to the US do so to come for college, graduate school or to accept high tech or otherwise highly skilled positions. It is very difficult for Asians to emigrate to the US except for academic reasons. Many other races have alternative means of emigrating to the US, but education and highly skilled positions are the vast majority of the opportunities for Asians. So, you have an exceptionally highly intelligent subset of Asians that become US immigrants and end up staying in the US. The average and even slightly above average Asian students don't come to the US. These Asians then breed offspring who tend to be more intelligent than average for their race. That plus most Asian cultures stress academic achievement as a standard make them more competitive in academic situations.

The reason that TJ and selective schools tend to be overrepresented vs other public schools is that Asians place such a high stress on education that many of them will try to send their children to advance or magnet programs even if they have to move to do so and fewer leave their children in public schools, so you have a higher percentage of the Asian population going to select schools leaving fewer in the public school system.

Actually many Asians come to US based on family connections more so than based on employment. In addition, Asians who come to US on student visas to attend colleges/graduate schools are on temporary visas so they must leave US once schooling is complete unless they are offered permanent positions and offer of permanent employment is not that common due to their lack of permanent resident status/citizenship/clearance etc.

As for relocating, that may happen in some cases but it is not common due to high cost and other issues such as obtaining new jobs etc. with relocating.

In my experience (my parents are Asians who came over in the 1950's), many of the Asians who come over for family connections do so for education and are sponsored by the family members. They come to attend school here and stay and they do tend to be among the cream of the crop. I've seen many, many families where the smartest of the cousins comes to the US and are sponsored by the one family member who came over in the previous generation (the uncle or aunt). That family member sponsors them, they study and they stay and they end up sponsoring the next of the cousins/nieces/nephews who will come over. So your two categories, those with family connections and those coming for education include a largely overlapping subset of the more intelligent members of large families who can stay beyond student visas. I've personally seen hundreds of such candidates.

Even the broke Asians that come over here focus on education.

It's interesting, but no one wants to admit it. Asians focus on education to get ahead and hope their kids have a better life.

Blacks and Hispanics focus less on education and instead, complain to the man that they are being held back.

Blacks should have an advantage over other minorities because they actually spoke the English language, but someone that language has evolved into ebonics.

So much ignorance in your post. How I wish TJ were closed, so that people like you would have one less soapbox from which to expound your misguided theories about Asian superiority.

How is saying Asians focus on education compared to other groups expounding Asian superiority? How is focusing on education a basis for wanting TJ closed? Your post doesn't make sense.

Blacks focus too much on becoming the next Lebron, the next MJ, the next Deion Sanders, the next RG3, rapper, sports agent, basketball summer league organizer, etc.

Please let Neil deGrasse Tyson know your views. You can tweet to him @neiltyson

https://twitter.com/neiltyson

this comment is like saying we have a black president, attorney general, scotus member, and national security chief advisor so everything is a-ok in the community.