American Women Are Giving Up on Marriage (Wall Street Journal)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

Do you think young women are stupid? It’s not hard to see.

Dating isn’t like marriage. It’s hard to see down the line how someone will interact with you once kids come along. Especially if you have lust blinders on.

This was the first generation of young women who truly saw moms work in near equal measure to dads- and breadwin in record numbers. This is also the first generation of young women who were raised in the activity laden nightmare that is modern day parenting. They heard terms like “mental load” and heard about the invisible work of parenting. They saw their parents work their ass off just to pay for daycare, while their standard of living wasn’t guaranteed to rise. This generation of women is neither smarter nor dumber than past- but they sure are more educated on the realities of cost of living/kids/quality of life issues

Agree to disagree. A subset of women may be thinking along these lines and not wanting to marry sure, but is that the primary reason for the decline in marriage? I personally think the other factors I raised, specifically the availability of well paid and educated men, are more relevant to the choice not to marry, and the workload balance is a greater cause for divorce.

You think women are so dumb that they cannot think in advance about what it would be like to be married with kids?

You’ve suggested twice that my comment means I think women are dumb. Bizarre take. I think most women do like the idea of marriage if they could find someone of equal status (emotional intelligence, hardworking, educated) and unfortunately that’s the real issue.

That’s not what the story or data says, but go on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
If government wants future laborers and tax payers, they'll have to make it affordable for locals to raise kids or let immigrants in.

This! America is so unsupportive of families it’s a joke.

From expensive daycare, to the school day ending before normal work days and random days off school, through $100k+ college tuition…

No wonder. Also, just because women don’t want to settle for loser men that doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t having children. I have many friends who are SMBC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If government wants future laborers and tax payers, they'll have to make it affordable for locals to raise kids or let immigrants in.

This! America is so unsupportive of families it’s a joke.

From expensive daycare, to the school day ending before normal work days and random days off school, through $100k+ college tuition…

No wonder. Also, just because women don’t want to settle for loser men that doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t having children. I have many friends who are SMBC.

The school day is too long as it is and in-state college is just fine.

[Anonymous]

We've been lead to think marriage should be some sort of magical state.
Yes, marriage has its rewards. But marriage, even a good marriage, is work. Constant work.

The choice to seek marriage is about one's priorities. If one prioritizes their independence, then marriage is not for that person. Culturally, America has been about and emphasizes independence so this isn't really a surprise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

Do you think young women are stupid? It’s not hard to see.

Dating isn’t like marriage. It’s hard to see down the line how someone will interact with you once kids come along. Especially if you have lust blinders on.

This was the first generation of young women who truly saw moms work in near equal measure to dads- and breadwin in record numbers. This is also the first generation of young women who were raised in the activity laden nightmare that is modern day parenting. They heard terms like “mental load” and heard about the invisible work of parenting. They saw their parents work their ass off just to pay for daycare, while their standard of living wasn’t guaranteed to rise. This generation of women is neither smarter nor dumber than past- but they sure are more educated on the realities of cost of living/kids/quality of life issues

Agree to disagree. A subset of women may be thinking along these lines and not wanting to marry sure, but is that the primary reason for the decline in marriage? I personally think the other factors I raised, specifically the availability of well paid and educated men, are more relevant to the choice not to marry, and the workload balance is a greater cause for divorce.

You think women are so dumb that they cannot think in advance about what it would be like to be married with kids?

Well, men can’t and don’t.

They just say sounds good, I love kids, and then never grow or adapt to their family and kids’ needs.

So true. My husband loved the gifts for baby showers and the weird pride of knocking me up - feeling “like a man”. The work and selflessness of actually raising the kids he was so keen to make? Never there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I mean, I guess I did choose poorly.

But I’m not ranting about people being married- I’ve tried it. I’m explaining why- having tried it- I don’t need or want to try it or a relationship approximating it, again.

Have you tried being single after marriage? Have you tried being single and independently wealthy? If so I’d love to hear your opinion. If not and you just picked at my post because it triggered something in you, all the best.

You were commenting on a post about societal trends. My point is that maybe the problem in your relationships is unique to you and not instructive as to larger trends. I think this is true based on your responses.

My experience is aligned with the tends I was commenting on.

You want to make this about me when millions of women agree with me- per the facts

Pick elsewhere.

Your reason appears to be that you are independently wealthy and don't want to share that wealth with anyone else, and that your first marriage already failed. The article lists many potential reasons for the trend, but I don't see your experience as particularly instructive, unless you abstract out so far that the article only stands for: "woman don't want to get married for many idiosyncratic reasons."

Such as: no longer needing a spouses money/ or not meeting men who can carry the home workload equally. I’m the exact same as “‘most women” in that regard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

Somewhat.

But also, the “cat is out of the bag” how helpless married men are to live with and raise kids with. That is no longer a secret.

This is what my daughters saw on the regular for years…. No amount of propping him up could save him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Parenting is a hard, expensive, mentally taxing and thankless job. Women & men probably both are better off living for themselves.

If you expect “payment” for every job you do, it’s fantasy land. Raising kids wont pay you for your effort. Neither will be helping to provide for an elderly parent. In life we do some jobs for free.

Agree, everyone needs to toughen up- men, women, children, teens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If government wants future laborers and tax payers, they'll have to make it affordable for locals to raise kids or let immigrants in.

This! America is so unsupportive of families it’s a joke.

From expensive daycare, to the school day ending before normal work days and random days off school, through $100k+ college tuition…

No wonder. Also, just because women don’t want to settle for loser men that doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t having children. I have many friends who are SMBC.

Marriage tax!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If government wants future laborers and tax payers, they'll have to make it affordable for locals to raise kids or let immigrants in.

This! America is so unsupportive of families it’s a joke.

From expensive daycare, to the school day ending before normal work days and random days off school, through $100k+ college tuition…

No wonder. Also, just because women don’t want to settle for loser men that doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t having children. I have many friends who are SMBC.

Yeah sure like that's a walk in the park for the mom and not a deprived life for the child.

[Anonymous]

What's unfortunate is most of the few good men ending up with selfish and demanding wives who want more rights and less responsibilities in the name of equality. You need two good eggs to make a good omelette.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If government wants future laborers and tax payers, they'll have to make it affordable for locals to raise kids or let immigrants in.

This! America is so unsupportive of families it’s a joke.

From expensive daycare, to the school day ending before normal work days and random days off school, through $100k+ college tuition…

No wonder. Also, just because women don’t want to settle for loser men that doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t having children. I have many friends who are SMBC.

The school day is too long as it is and in-state college is just fine.

Problem is workdays are too long. Nobody really needs to work more than 6 hours a day. Or we should switch to a 4 day workweek.

In-state is also upwards of $100k+.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What's unfortunate is most of the few good men ending up with selfish and demanding wives who want more rights and less responsibilities in the name of equality. You need two good eggs to make a good omelette.

I think it's true that a lot of women and men end up with people who use them. Many don't but there is a fair share of people really trying in a marriage married to someone faking it. The amount of financial and physical infidelity is insane compared to what I thought marriage would be like. People checked out of their work and marriage and addicted to social media or porn. Went through 40 years never meeting a single woman who went after a married man. Now they are everywhere. The amount of married men on dating apps is insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t buy that women who have never married are focusing on the “unpaid labor” aspect. That’s more of an issue that arises in marriage later on, after kids arrive. I think the likelier explanations are increased working areas, fewer social interactions generally (we see this in studies of Americans having fewer and fewer friendships, some of which would of course lead to romance), economic instability and fewer college educated, emotionally stable and well paid eligible men. More than ever, women are looking for income and education in men.

Do you think young women are stupid? It’s not hard to see.

Dating isn’t like marriage. It’s hard to see down the line how someone will interact with you once kids come along. Especially if you have lust blinders on.

This was the first generation of young women who truly saw moms work in near equal measure to dads- and breadwin in record numbers. This is also the first generation of young women who were raised in the activity laden nightmare that is modern day parenting. They heard terms like “mental load” and heard about the invisible work of parenting. They saw their parents work their ass off just to pay for daycare, while their standard of living wasn’t guaranteed to rise. This generation of women is neither smarter nor dumber than past- but they sure are more educated on the realities of cost of living/kids/quality of life issues

Agree to disagree. A subset of women may be thinking along these lines and not wanting to marry sure, but is that the primary reason for the decline in marriage? I personally think the other factors I raised, specifically the availability of well paid and educated men, are more relevant to the choice not to marry, and the workload balance is a greater cause for divorce.

You think women are so dumb that they cannot think in advance about what it would be like to be married with kids?

You’ve suggested twice that my comment means I think women are dumb. Bizarre take. I think most women do like the idea of marriage if they could find someone of equal status (emotional intelligence, hardworking, educated) and unfortunately that’s the real issue.

That’s not what the story or data says, but go on.

The story is selected anecdotes of people willing to talk to the WSJ. The data only says the marriage rate is declining.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
If government wants future laborers and tax payers, they'll have to make it affordable for locals to raise kids or let immigrants in.

This! America is so unsupportive of families it’s a joke.

From expensive daycare, to the school day ending before normal work days and random days off school, through $100k+ college tuition…

No wonder. Also, just because women don’t want to settle for loser men that doesn’t necessarily mean they aren’t having children. I have many friends who are SMBC.

Marriage tax!!

This isn’t an American only problem. If anything Americans are lagging behind trends in lower marriage rates that we have seen in Europe for years.