The insanity of 1%er East Coast parents and college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷‍♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.

x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.

I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.

It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.

I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.

we are UHNW, and I would NOT spend that type of money on college consultant. We spend $4.5K on CC and another $1K on SAT tutoring (10 individual sessions), and that was for all 4 years (but we only used it for 14 months). Because I agree, that if you have to spend that much, then perhaps that isn't the school for your kid (or my kid)

I wrote that I would get a college counselor. I have no idea the cost. My oldest is a sophomore in HS.

it an be done for 4-5K. For us that was "all in for 4 years, unlimited visits". They help you plan HS courses (we didn't need that) and most importantly help you find the right Reach, Target and Safeties for your kid. Of my kid's final Top 3 choices (2 targets and a gem of a safety), I would have only considered 1 of them. They also help your kid stay on schedule without you having to nag them---senior year is stressful enough. And the 1-1 SAT tutoring is best use of time and money. After 1 baseline test and 4 hours of review (based on results) my kid was essentially at their final score (+/-10 points). we could have been done then. But did a few more practice tests and review sessions. They teach the tricks for how to approach the test, help your kid see where they are making silly mistakes and in general just the taking of 4-5 practice tests help prepares your kid. For ex, all practice tests were to be done at 8am, just like the real SAT. Because yes, I'm certain my go to bed at 2am et up at noon kid would do better with a 2pm test but that isn't reality. So practice under real world conditions helps you

Can you recommend your sat prep? I bought my kid a psat book he didn’t open last summer and now sat book that is collecting dust.

not local, so no. But look for an individual company (not a national chain), ask for references and see their track record. A good one will sell to you by the hour--we did only 8 or 10 hours and were done. at that point they honestly told us, "if you want to spend 20-30 hours more and focus on the Verbal, with a ton of outside work you might raise that 700 to a 750, but it's not worth it (and my kid didn't want to). So basically, a good tutor knows that it only takes 8-10 hours(or less) to arrive at your kid's ideal score. If they want to sell you a 30 hour+ package, run away.

For ex: my kid started with 1330 baseline, after 4 hours of 1-1 (3 verbal and 1 hour math), they scored 1480 on next practice test. That was their final score. All other practice tests and real tests were within 20 points +/-. So in reality, those 4 hours was all that was needed---just an overview of where their main issues were, and pointers/tricks for understanding the structure of the test and how to approach it. The next 4-6 hours were just reviewing additional practice tests and identifying errors. And practice, because the more real life situation tests (simulations okay) you do the better prepared you are for the real arrive at 7:15am to the test center on a Sat situation.

So my kid got a 150 point increase. With only 4 hours of work. Our tutor says that is normal. If you start at a lower score, then you might need 8-10 hours to reach a final score (a smart kid who only gets 1200 on baseline has more room to improve/errors to find). But nobody really needs 20-30 hours.

If you need much more than 6-12 hours, you are probably doing homework during tutoring time and you are paying someone to walk your kid through homework.

The truly naturally gifted smart kids are getting 1200 on the SAT in 6th grade. They don’t require any tutoring. They get near perfect or perfect scores in one sitting on the first try when they take the test as a junior or senior for college admissions. They don’t need to spend hours and hours studying or hiring tutors in High School - even at the most competitive schools taking the most rigorous courses. I know this because I have this kid. And as a parent you really only understand what I’m talking about if you have a kid like this. Our other kids are smart - work really hard and get good grades, study, tutoring, etc to get good test scores. But it is not the same. There is no comparison.

AOs can’t tell the difference between the SMART kids and the ones that prepped and got tutoring and took the SAT 3 or 4 times. (Not saying there’s anything wrong with kids working super hard to improve). So I imagine at top schools you’re surrounded mostly by hard workers (and/or kids of parents who can hire the best of the best to tutor, curate etc) not necessarily the brightest kids out there.

There are only like 1000 kids total that get a 1600 in any one sitting, not to mention their first time.

Good for you with yours, but not sure your point. You don’t think CalTech or MIT aren’t attracting a bunch of these kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷‍♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.

x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.

I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.

It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.

I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.

we are UHNW, and I would NOT spend that type of money on college consultant. We spend $4.5K on CC and another $1K on SAT tutoring (10 individual sessions), and that was for all 4 years (but we only used it for 14 months). Because I agree, that if you have to spend that much, then perhaps that isn't the school for your kid (or my kid)

I wrote that I would get a college counselor. I have no idea the cost. My oldest is a sophomore in HS.

it an be done for 4-5K. For us that was "all in for 4 years, unlimited visits". They help you plan HS courses (we didn't need that) and most importantly help you find the right Reach, Target and Safeties for your kid. Of my kid's final Top 3 choices (2 targets and a gem of a safety), I would have only considered 1 of them. They also help your kid stay on schedule without you having to nag them---senior year is stressful enough. And the 1-1 SAT tutoring is best use of time and money. After 1 baseline test and 4 hours of review (based on results) my kid was essentially at their final score (+/-10 points). we could have been done then. But did a few more practice tests and review sessions. They teach the tricks for how to approach the test, help your kid see where they are making silly mistakes and in general just the taking of 4-5 practice tests help prepares your kid. For ex, all practice tests were to be done at 8am, just like the real SAT. Because yes, I'm certain my go to bed at 2am et up at noon kid would do better with a 2pm test but that isn't reality. So practice under real world conditions helps you

Can you recommend your sat prep? I bought my kid a psat book he didn’t open last summer and now sat book that is collecting dust.

not local, so no. But look for an individual company (not a national chain), ask for references and see their track record. A good one will sell to you by the hour--we did only 8 or 10 hours and were done. at that point they honestly told us, "if you want to spend 20-30 hours more and focus on the Verbal, with a ton of outside work you might raise that 700 to a 750, but it's not worth it (and my kid didn't want to). So basically, a good tutor knows that it only takes 8-10 hours(or less) to arrive at your kid's ideal score. If they want to sell you a 30 hour+ package, run away.

For ex: my kid started with 1330 baseline, after 4 hours of 1-1 (3 verbal and 1 hour math), they scored 1480 on next practice test. That was their final score. All other practice tests and real tests were within 20 points +/-. So in reality, those 4 hours was all that was needed---just an overview of where their main issues were, and pointers/tricks for understanding the structure of the test and how to approach it. The next 4-6 hours were just reviewing additional practice tests and identifying errors. And practice, because the more real life situation tests (simulations okay) you do the better prepared you are for the real arrive at 7:15am to the test center on a Sat situation.

So my kid got a 150 point increase. With only 4 hours of work. Our tutor says that is normal. If you start at a lower score, then you might need 8-10 hours to reach a final score (a smart kid who only gets 1200 on baseline has more room to improve/errors to find). But nobody really needs 20-30 hours.

If you need much more than 6-12 hours, you are probably doing homework during tutoring time and you are paying someone to walk your kid through homework.

The truly naturally gifted smart kids are getting 1200 on the SAT in 6th grade. They don’t require any tutoring. They get near perfect or perfect scores in one sitting on the first try when they take the test as a junior or senior for college admissions. They don’t need to spend hours and hours studying or hiring tutors in High School - even at the most competitive schools taking the most rigorous courses. I know this because I have this kid. And as a parent you really only understand what I’m talking about if you have a kid like this. Our other kids are smart - work really hard and get good grades, study, tutoring, etc to get good test scores. But it is not the same. There is no comparison.

AOs can’t tell the difference between the SMART kids and the ones that prepped and got tutoring and took the SAT 3 or 4 times. (Not saying there’s anything wrong with kids working super hard to improve). So I imagine at top schools you’re surrounded mostly by hard workers (and/or kids of parents who can hire the best of the best to tutor, curate etc) not necessarily the brightest kids out there.

Get that. I also don't think anybody (except parents of those kids) would actually think it's best to fill a freshman class with 1600 of the kids who "didn't have to work much and are truly just naturally 1600 on SAT smart". This isn't grad school getting your PHD (then yes, that is what the top schools want and get). There is more to being life than that and I think most colleges want a balanced group of students, including those who get a 1400 on their SAT, then get a bit of tutoring (3-5 hours) and turn it into 1520+ (note I said a bit of tutoring---30+ hours can turn any moderate kid Into "really smart" on paper). Because in the real world, you function in a group, you get to bounce your ideas off of others and work together, and I can assure you the best group is not always the one with 10 "of the naturally just really smart kids"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷‍♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.

x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.

I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.

It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.

I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.

we are UHNW, and I would NOT spend that type of money on college consultant. We spend $4.5K on CC and another $1K on SAT tutoring (10 individual sessions), and that was for all 4 years (but we only used it for 14 months). Because I agree, that if you have to spend that much, then perhaps that isn't the school for your kid (or my kid)

I wrote that I would get a college counselor. I have no idea the cost. My oldest is a sophomore in HS.

it an be done for 4-5K. For us that was "all in for 4 years, unlimited visits". They help you plan HS courses (we didn't need that) and most importantly help you find the right Reach, Target and Safeties for your kid. Of my kid's final Top 3 choices (2 targets and a gem of a safety), I would have only considered 1 of them. They also help your kid stay on schedule without you having to nag them---senior year is stressful enough. And the 1-1 SAT tutoring is best use of time and money. After 1 baseline test and 4 hours of review (based on results) my kid was essentially at their final score (+/-10 points). we could have been done then. But did a few more practice tests and review sessions. They teach the tricks for how to approach the test, help your kid see where they are making silly mistakes and in general just the taking of 4-5 practice tests help prepares your kid. For ex, all practice tests were to be done at 8am, just like the real SAT. Because yes, I'm certain my go to bed at 2am et up at noon kid would do better with a 2pm test but that isn't reality. So practice under real world conditions helps you

Can you recommend your sat prep? I bought my kid a psat book he didn’t open last summer and now sat book that is collecting dust.

not local, so no. But look for an individual company (not a national chain), ask for references and see their track record. A good one will sell to you by the hour--we did only 8 or 10 hours and were done. at that point they honestly told us, "if you want to spend 20-30 hours more and focus on the Verbal, with a ton of outside work you might raise that 700 to a 750, but it's not worth it (and my kid didn't want to). So basically, a good tutor knows that it only takes 8-10 hours(or less) to arrive at your kid's ideal score. If they want to sell you a 30 hour+ package, run away.

For ex: my kid started with 1330 baseline, after 4 hours of 1-1 (3 verbal and 1 hour math), they scored 1480 on next practice test. That was their final score. All other practice tests and real tests were within 20 points +/-. So in reality, those 4 hours was all that was needed---just an overview of where their main issues were, and pointers/tricks for understanding the structure of the test and how to approach it. The next 4-6 hours were just reviewing additional practice tests and identifying errors. And practice, because the more real life situation tests (simulations okay) you do the better prepared you are for the real arrive at 7:15am to the test center on a Sat situation.

So my kid got a 150 point increase. With only 4 hours of work. Our tutor says that is normal. If you start at a lower score, then you might need 8-10 hours to reach a final score (a smart kid who only gets 1200 on baseline has more room to improve/errors to find). But nobody really needs 20-30 hours.

If you need much more than 6-12 hours, you are probably doing homework during tutoring time and you are paying someone to walk your kid through homework.

The truly naturally gifted smart kids are getting 1200 on the SAT in 6th grade. They don’t require any tutoring. They get near perfect or perfect scores in one sitting on the first try when they take the test as a junior or senior for college admissions. They don’t need to spend hours and hours studying or hiring tutors in High School - even at the most competitive schools taking the most rigorous courses. I know this because I have this kid. And as a parent you really only understand what I’m talking about if you have a kid like this. Our other kids are smart - work really hard and get good grades, study, tutoring, etc to get good test scores. But it is not the same. There is no comparison.

AOs can’t tell the difference between the SMART kids and the ones that prepped and got tutoring and took the SAT 3 or 4 times. (Not saying there’s anything wrong with kids working super hard to improve). So I imagine at top schools you’re surrounded mostly by hard workers (and/or kids of parents who can hire the best of the best to tutor, curate etc) not necessarily the brightest kids out there.

Get that. I also don't think anybody (except parents of those kids) would actually think it's best to fill a freshman class with 1600 of the kids who "didn't have to work much and are truly just naturally 1600 on SAT smart". This isn't grad school getting your PHD (then yes, that is what the top schools want and get). There is more to being life than that and I think most colleges want a balanced group of students, including those who get a 1400 on their SAT, then get a bit of tutoring (3-5 hours) and turn it into 1520+ (note I said a bit of tutoring---30+ hours can turn any moderate kid Into "really smart" on paper). Because in the real world, you function in a group, you get to bounce your ideas off of others and work together, and I can assure you the best group is not always the one with 10 "of the naturally just really smart kids"

Exactly. There is more to life than getting top grades and getting into a T10/Ivy. That’s exactly my point. All these parents on here with the tutors and consultants and test prep trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. I’m just saying there are kids that are naturally inclined towards high stats. They can be well rounded and not stressed because it’s easy for them—
Versus the kids that have to grind and stress all through high school, all through college for what? To say the graduated from xyz name brand school? It’s crazy to me - which is I believe the entire subject of this thread.

[Anonymous]

1600 on middle school equivalent exam like SAT.

Low bar. Who cares who gets a perfect score on a middle school test. I don't I will not accept college students or employees based on this metric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1600 on middle school equivalent exam like SAT.

Low bar. Who cares who gets a perfect score on a middle school test. I don't I will not accept college students or employees based on this metric.

Huh? Considering less than 0.01% of the population does this…you have an odd take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷‍♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.

x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.

I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.

It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.

I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.

we are UHNW, and I would NOT spend that type of money on college consultant. We spend $4.5K on CC and another $1K on SAT tutoring (10 individual sessions), and that was for all 4 years (but we only used it for 14 months). Because I agree, that if you have to spend that much, then perhaps that isn't the school for your kid (or my kid)

I wrote that I would get a college counselor. I have no idea the cost. My oldest is a sophomore in HS.

it an be done for 4-5K. For us that was "all in for 4 years, unlimited visits". They help you plan HS courses (we didn't need that) and most importantly help you find the right Reach, Target and Safeties for your kid. Of my kid's final Top 3 choices (2 targets and a gem of a safety), I would have only considered 1 of them. They also help your kid stay on schedule without you having to nag them---senior year is stressful enough. And the 1-1 SAT tutoring is best use of time and money. After 1 baseline test and 4 hours of review (based on results) my kid was essentially at their final score (+/-10 points). we could have been done then. But did a few more practice tests and review sessions. They teach the tricks for how to approach the test, help your kid see where they are making silly mistakes and in general just the taking of 4-5 practice tests help prepares your kid. For ex, all practice tests were to be done at 8am, just like the real SAT. Because yes, I'm certain my go to bed at 2am et up at noon kid would do better with a 2pm test but that isn't reality. So practice under real world conditions helps you

Can you recommend your sat prep? I bought my kid a psat book he didn’t open last summer and now sat book that is collecting dust.

not local, so no. But look for an individual company (not a national chain), ask for references and see their track record. A good one will sell to you by the hour--we did only 8 or 10 hours and were done. at that point they honestly told us, "if you want to spend 20-30 hours more and focus on the Verbal, with a ton of outside work you might raise that 700 to a 750, but it's not worth it (and my kid didn't want to). So basically, a good tutor knows that it only takes 8-10 hours(or less) to arrive at your kid's ideal score. If they want to sell you a 30 hour+ package, run away.

For ex: my kid started with 1330 baseline, after 4 hours of 1-1 (3 verbal and 1 hour math), they scored 1480 on next practice test. That was their final score. All other practice tests and real tests were within 20 points +/-. So in reality, those 4 hours was all that was needed---just an overview of where their main issues were, and pointers/tricks for understanding the structure of the test and how to approach it. The next 4-6 hours were just reviewing additional practice tests and identifying errors. And practice, because the more real life situation tests (simulations okay) you do the better prepared you are for the real arrive at 7:15am to the test center on a Sat situation.

So my kid got a 150 point increase. With only 4 hours of work. Our tutor says that is normal. If you start at a lower score, then you might need 8-10 hours to reach a final score (a smart kid who only gets 1200 on baseline has more room to improve/errors to find). But nobody really needs 20-30 hours.

If you need much more than 6-12 hours, you are probably doing homework during tutoring time and you are paying someone to walk your kid through homework.

The truly naturally gifted smart kids are getting 1200 on the SAT in 6th grade. They don’t require any tutoring. They get near perfect or perfect scores in one sitting on the first try when they take the test as a junior or senior for college admissions. They don’t need to spend hours and hours studying or hiring tutors in High School - even at the most competitive schools taking the most rigorous courses. I know this because I have this kid. And as a parent you really only understand what I’m talking about if you have a kid like this. Our other kids are smart - work really hard and get good grades, study, tutoring, etc to get good test scores. But it is not the same. There is no comparison.

AOs can’t tell the difference between the SMART kids and the ones that prepped and got tutoring and took the SAT 3 or 4 times. (Not saying there’s anything wrong with kids working super hard to improve). So I imagine at top schools you’re surrounded mostly by hard workers (and/or kids of parents who can hire the best of the best to tutor, curate etc) not necessarily the brightest kids out there.

Get that. I also don't think anybody (except parents of those kids) would actually think it's best to fill a freshman class with 1600 of the kids who "didn't have to work much and are truly just naturally 1600 on SAT smart". This isn't grad school getting your PHD (then yes, that is what the top schools want and get). There is more to being life than that and I think most colleges want a balanced group of students, including those who get a 1400 on their SAT, then get a bit of tutoring (3-5 hours) and turn it into 1520+ (note I said a bit of tutoring---30+ hours can turn any moderate kid Into "really smart" on paper). Because in the real world, you function in a group, you get to bounce your ideas off of others and work together, and I can assure you the best group is not always the one with 10 "of the naturally just really smart kids"

Exactly. There is more to life than getting top grades and getting into a T10/Ivy. That’s exactly my point. All these parents on here with the tutors and consultants and test prep trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. I’m just saying there are kids that are naturally inclined towards high stats. They can be well rounded and not stressed because it’s easy for them—
Versus the kids that have to grind and stress all through high school, all through college for what? To say the graduated from xyz name brand school? It’s crazy to me - which is I believe the entire subject of this thread.

Is there more to life than top grades and T10/Ivy? Really? Kind of key and important. Fine if you can't get there. Lots of places can be the launching pad. But let's not get too crazy here. The top is the top for a reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷‍♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.

x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.

I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.

It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.

I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.

we are UHNW, and I would NOT spend that type of money on college consultant. We spend $4.5K on CC and another $1K on SAT tutoring (10 individual sessions), and that was for all 4 years (but we only used it for 14 months). Because I agree, that if you have to spend that much, then perhaps that isn't the school for your kid (or my kid)

I wrote that I would get a college counselor. I have no idea the cost. My oldest is a sophomore in HS.

it an be done for 4-5K. For us that was "all in for 4 years, unlimited visits". They help you plan HS courses (we didn't need that) and most importantly help you find the right Reach, Target and Safeties for your kid. Of my kid's final Top 3 choices (2 targets and a gem of a safety), I would have only considered 1 of them. They also help your kid stay on schedule without you having to nag them---senior year is stressful enough. And the 1-1 SAT tutoring is best use of time and money. After 1 baseline test and 4 hours of review (based on results) my kid was essentially at their final score (+/-10 points). we could have been done then. But did a few more practice tests and review sessions. They teach the tricks for how to approach the test, help your kid see where they are making silly mistakes and in general just the taking of 4-5 practice tests help prepares your kid. For ex, all practice tests were to be done at 8am, just like the real SAT. Because yes, I'm certain my go to bed at 2am et up at noon kid would do better with a 2pm test but that isn't reality. So practice under real world conditions helps you

Can you recommend your sat prep? I bought my kid a psat book he didn’t open last summer and now sat book that is collecting dust.

not local, so no. But look for an individual company (not a national chain), ask for references and see their track record. A good one will sell to you by the hour--we did only 8 or 10 hours and were done. at that point they honestly told us, "if you want to spend 20-30 hours more and focus on the Verbal, with a ton of outside work you might raise that 700 to a 750, but it's not worth it (and my kid didn't want to). So basically, a good tutor knows that it only takes 8-10 hours(or less) to arrive at your kid's ideal score. If they want to sell you a 30 hour+ package, run away.

For ex: my kid started with 1330 baseline, after 4 hours of 1-1 (3 verbal and 1 hour math), they scored 1480 on next practice test. That was their final score. All other practice tests and real tests were within 20 points +/-. So in reality, those 4 hours was all that was needed---just an overview of where their main issues were, and pointers/tricks for understanding the structure of the test and how to approach it. The next 4-6 hours were just reviewing additional practice tests and identifying errors. And practice, because the more real life situation tests (simulations okay) you do the better prepared you are for the real arrive at 7:15am to the test center on a Sat situation.

So my kid got a 150 point increase. With only 4 hours of work. Our tutor says that is normal. If you start at a lower score, then you might need 8-10 hours to reach a final score (a smart kid who only gets 1200 on baseline has more room to improve/errors to find). But nobody really needs 20-30 hours.

If you need much more than 6-12 hours, you are probably doing homework during tutoring time and you are paying someone to walk your kid through homework.

The truly naturally gifted smart kids are getting 1200 on the SAT in 6th grade. They don’t require any tutoring. They get near perfect or perfect scores in one sitting on the first try when they take the test as a junior or senior for college admissions. They don’t need to spend hours and hours studying or hiring tutors in High School - even at the most competitive schools taking the most rigorous courses. I know this because I have this kid. And as a parent you really only understand what I’m talking about if you have a kid like this. Our other kids are smart - work really hard and get good grades, study, tutoring, etc to get good test scores. But it is not the same. There is no comparison.

AOs can’t tell the difference between the SMART kids and the ones that prepped and got tutoring and took the SAT 3 or 4 times. (Not saying there’s anything wrong with kids working super hard to improve). So I imagine at top schools you’re surrounded mostly by hard workers (and/or kids of parents who can hire the best of the best to tutor, curate etc) not necessarily the brightest kids out there.

Get that. I also don't think anybody (except parents of those kids) would actually think it's best to fill a freshman class with 1600 of the kids who "didn't have to work much and are truly just naturally 1600 on SAT smart". This isn't grad school getting your PHD (then yes, that is what the top schools want and get). There is more to being life than that and I think most colleges want a balanced group of students, including those who get a 1400 on their SAT, then get a bit of tutoring (3-5 hours) and turn it into 1520+ (note I said a bit of tutoring---30+ hours can turn any moderate kid Into "really smart" on paper). Because in the real world, you function in a group, you get to bounce your ideas off of others and work together, and I can assure you the best group is not always the one with 10 "of the naturally just really smart kids"

Exactly. There is more to life than getting top grades and getting into a T10/Ivy. That’s exactly my point. All these parents on here with the tutors and consultants and test prep trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. I’m just saying there are kids that are naturally inclined towards high stats. They can be well rounded and not stressed because it’s easy for them—
Versus the kids that have to grind and stress all through high school, all through college for what? To say the graduated from xyz name brand school? It’s crazy to me - which is I believe the entire subject of this thread.

Is there more to life than top grades and T10/Ivy? Really? Kind of key and important. Fine if you can't get there. Lots of places can be the launching pad. But let's not get too crazy here. The top is the top for a reason.

Because this is DCUM, it’s impossible to tell if this is a serious comment or not. Could honestly go either way with this crowd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷‍♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.

x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.

I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.

It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.

I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.

we are UHNW, and I would NOT spend that type of money on college consultant. We spend $4.5K on CC and another $1K on SAT tutoring (10 individual sessions), and that was for all 4 years (but we only used it for 14 months). Because I agree, that if you have to spend that much, then perhaps that isn't the school for your kid (or my kid)

I wrote that I would get a college counselor. I have no idea the cost. My oldest is a sophomore in HS.

it an be done for 4-5K. For us that was "all in for 4 years, unlimited visits". They help you plan HS courses (we didn't need that) and most importantly help you find the right Reach, Target and Safeties for your kid. Of my kid's final Top 3 choices (2 targets and a gem of a safety), I would have only considered 1 of them. They also help your kid stay on schedule without you having to nag them---senior year is stressful enough. And the 1-1 SAT tutoring is best use of time and money. After 1 baseline test and 4 hours of review (based on results) my kid was essentially at their final score (+/-10 points). we could have been done then. But did a few more practice tests and review sessions. They teach the tricks for how to approach the test, help your kid see where they are making silly mistakes and in general just the taking of 4-5 practice tests help prepares your kid. For ex, all practice tests were to be done at 8am, just like the real SAT. Because yes, I'm certain my go to bed at 2am et up at noon kid would do better with a 2pm test but that isn't reality. So practice under real world conditions helps you

Can you recommend your sat prep? I bought my kid a psat book he didn’t open last summer and now sat book that is collecting dust.

not local, so no. But look for an individual company (not a national chain), ask for references and see their track record. A good one will sell to you by the hour--we did only 8 or 10 hours and were done. at that point they honestly told us, "if you want to spend 20-30 hours more and focus on the Verbal, with a ton of outside work you might raise that 700 to a 750, but it's not worth it (and my kid didn't want to). So basically, a good tutor knows that it only takes 8-10 hours(or less) to arrive at your kid's ideal score. If they want to sell you a 30 hour+ package, run away.

For ex: my kid started with 1330 baseline, after 4 hours of 1-1 (3 verbal and 1 hour math), they scored 1480 on next practice test. That was their final score. All other practice tests and real tests were within 20 points +/-. So in reality, those 4 hours was all that was needed---just an overview of where their main issues were, and pointers/tricks for understanding the structure of the test and how to approach it. The next 4-6 hours were just reviewing additional practice tests and identifying errors. And practice, because the more real life situation tests (simulations okay) you do the better prepared you are for the real arrive at 7:15am to the test center on a Sat situation.

So my kid got a 150 point increase. With only 4 hours of work. Our tutor says that is normal. If you start at a lower score, then you might need 8-10 hours to reach a final score (a smart kid who only gets 1200 on baseline has more room to improve/errors to find). But nobody really needs 20-30 hours.

If you need much more than 6-12 hours, you are probably doing homework during tutoring time and you are paying someone to walk your kid through homework.

The truly naturally gifted smart kids are getting 1200 on the SAT in 6th grade. They don’t require any tutoring. They get near perfect or perfect scores in one sitting on the first try when they take the test as a junior or senior for college admissions. They don’t need to spend hours and hours studying or hiring tutors in High School - even at the most competitive schools taking the most rigorous courses. I know this because I have this kid. And as a parent you really only understand what I’m talking about if you have a kid like this. Our other kids are smart - work really hard and get good grades, study, tutoring, etc to get good test scores. But it is not the same. There is no comparison.

AOs can’t tell the difference between the SMART kids and the ones that prepped and got tutoring and took the SAT 3 or 4 times. (Not saying there’s anything wrong with kids working super hard to improve). So I imagine at top schools you’re surrounded mostly by hard workers (and/or kids of parents who can hire the best of the best to tutor, curate etc) not necessarily the brightest kids out there.

Get that. I also don't think anybody (except parents of those kids) would actually think it's best to fill a freshman class with 1600 of the kids who "didn't have to work much and are truly just naturally 1600 on SAT smart". This isn't grad school getting your PHD (then yes, that is what the top schools want and get). There is more to being life than that and I think most colleges want a balanced group of students, including those who get a 1400 on their SAT, then get a bit of tutoring (3-5 hours) and turn it into 1520+ (note I said a bit of tutoring---30+ hours can turn any moderate kid Into "really smart" on paper). Because in the real world, you function in a group, you get to bounce your ideas off of others and work together, and I can assure you the best group is not always the one with 10 "of the naturally just really smart kids"

Exactly. There is more to life than getting top grades and getting into a T10/Ivy. That’s exactly my point. All these parents on here with the tutors and consultants and test prep trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. I’m just saying there are kids that are naturally inclined towards high stats. They can be well rounded and not stressed because it’s easy for them—
Versus the kids that have to grind and stress all through high school, all through college for what? To say the graduated from xyz name brand school? It’s crazy to me - which is I believe the entire subject of this thread.

Exactly! And yet this forum does not seem to appreciate when it is pointed out that they can not control their child's trajectory as much as they would like to. As much money as you want to throw at it in order to squeeze their round peg average child into a square hole meant for an extraordinary student. It is delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My point is that the activities should be ones that the students themselves find, pursue, and succeed at on their own, and not ones a consultant and parents select for them.

You don't seem to understand how those activities are selected.
They don't give you a list of lessons to sign up for, they go through your current interests and highlight the ones you might want to focus on and guide you towards other activities that are similar or close to what you already love.

Maybe you have 6 activities and you are just OK at all of them, but your sumo wrestling is about to become an NCAA women's sport and you would be recruitable in your weight class if you could reclaim some time by putting your competitive jenga and lemonade stand on hold for a bit.

Maybe you love playing D&D because you love playing D&D because you really enjoy immersing yourself into the character. They might suggest you pursue drama club or something.
Of maybe you love D&D because you love weaving together worlds for your players to adventure in, so maybe you should take some writing classes to learn how to turn those ideas into stories.

You do not understand college admissions better than an experienced college consultant.




With that said, most of the time, they don't really add a whole lot of value aside from helping you pick out some schools that you would be extremely happy at but aren't on your radar.

this is true.

if you kid has love ukelele for years, they might say, hey: maybe start teaching ukelele or start some sort of local band?
if your kid loves birding and crocheting, hey, make little birds with crochet and sell on etsy.
if your kid loves nature and started the environmental club, they might say, hey, these 2 summer programs are great, and you might want to get a job planting trees this summer.
if a kid loves politics but is also an artist, hey, there's this local/state art council with your lawmakers your junior should apply for, and a job at an art gallery. and don't forget to max out on those advanced art credits so you can create the art portfolio next year.

its not manufacturing "trendy" or "hot" ECs out of thin air. the interests are already there. sometimes there isn't someone at home to help thread everything together.

there's one clueless, dense know-it-all "ivy mom of 2" on here who LOVES to spew her nonsense about her fabulously gifted and amah-ZING kids. She needs a life.

A high-priced consultant is white glove service.

The won't just suggest teaching ukele or starting a local band...they will arrange for you to volunteer at a prominent music NPO teaching ukele
If your kid loves birding and crocheting, they will incorporate your kid's business (literally, they will file the papers and what not) and put you in contact with a web designer and a shopify account to launch your own business
If your kid loves nature, they will arrange for you to intern with with Sierra Club
If your kid loves politics and is an artist, they will arrange for you to intern with your local council member and/or arrange for an internship with an art gallery

This is why folks don't care about spending $50k or $100k or whatever. It's beyond just suggesting do X, Y or Z...they will literally help make X, Y or Z happen.

So? Someone's always got more money to do things. Let them do this.
Im not so worried about "white glove college counseling".

This seems like a waste of money, but more importantly a detriment to the kid. Why isn't the kid arranging the internship and setting up the shopify account? What good is it to somehow make it to a top school and not be able to do all the things that the school expects of you. A big set up for low self esteem and floundering at a school that is out of their league. Very sad situation IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the PP point wasn't whether it is a good use of YOUR money, but it's value period. Most kids who I see getting into top schools do it on their own, naturally bright and gifted, no test prep or "curating" activities needed. I think the admissions officers know who got their on their own and who got their with excessive support. Like it almost works inversely, the more you spend the worse off your kid is-- they look bad to top schools and if they make it past-- cant keep up with the naturally brilliant kids who didnt need all the extra help.

I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.

I think this is a naive view.
Look at the curated activities list from Crimson. Do you really think that hasn't helped their applicants?

From my perspective with one in junior year and one a freshman at different ivies, the majority are indeed naturally gifted, without heavily curated activities such as the purposefully unique birdwatcher types, the pay to play research and founding nonprofits seen on DCUM. Instead they were concertmaster at their high school, or were all-state band, did some local theater, or editor of the school's poetry journal, or state-level debater or worked for years with a local nonprofit that they truly cared about, or were head counselor at a summer camp. Additionally they had top scores and based on class placement the number who took AP physics C, Chem, BC calc, and even post BC math is extraordinarily high. Even the non-stem ones took a huge amount of difficult courses, some of which our private did not offer. The number who were valedictorian or salutatorian is very high. They joke about how they "used" to be smart/top and are now just average like everyone else, yet to hear all of the things they do on campus in addition to intense classes is exhausting. Even their fun is typically scheduled, though they seem to be quite content with their choice most of the time. It has become quite evident that there are small pockets of students who really struggle in the ivy environment. Whether these few are more likely TO or hooked or propped up by parents/tutors is unclear: some just seemed to have burnt out. It takes a lot of confidence to thrive at these schools. I would never send a student who had not chased and accomplished their high school goals on their own and shown ability to be resilient. Until you have one in these schools, it is hard to grasp, especially those of us with older ones who went to a top flagship just outside the-T25. The pressure is another level at ivies and I assume other T15 types. The resources and funds for undergraduate research/opportunities are unbelievably lavish, but it comes with an intensity that does not fit typical "average excellent" students

preach!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the PP point wasn't whether it is a good use of YOUR money, but it's value period. Most kids who I see getting into top schools do it on their own, naturally bright and gifted, no test prep or "curating" activities needed. I think the admissions officers know who got their on their own and who got their with excessive support. Like it almost works inversely, the more you spend the worse off your kid is-- they look bad to top schools and if they make it past-- cant keep up with the naturally brilliant kids who didnt need all the extra help.

I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.

I think this is a naive view.
Look at the curated activities list from Crimson. Do you really think that hasn't helped their applicants?

From my perspective with one in junior year and one a freshman at different ivies, the majority are indeed naturally gifted, without heavily curated activities such as the purposefully unique birdwatcher types, the pay to play research and founding nonprofits seen on DCUM. Instead they were concertmaster at their high school, or were all-state band, did some local theater, or editor of the school's poetry journal, or state-level debater or worked for years with a local nonprofit that they truly cared about, or were head counselor at a summer camp. Additionally they had top scores and based on class placement the number who took AP physics C, Chem, BC calc, and even post BC math is extraordinarily high. Even the non-stem ones took a huge amount of difficult courses, some of which our private did not offer. The number who were valedictorian or salutatorian is very high. They joke about how they "used" to be smart/top and are now just average like everyone else, yet to hear all of the things they do on campus in addition to intense classes is exhausting. Even their fun is typically scheduled, though they seem to be quite content with their choice most of the time. It has become quite evident that there are small pockets of students who really struggle in the ivy environment. Whether these few are more likely TO or hooked or propped up by parents/tutors is unclear: some just seemed to have burnt out. It takes a lot of confidence to thrive at these schools. I would never send a student who had not chased and accomplished their high school goals on their own and shown ability to be resilient. Until you have one in these schools, it is hard to grasp, especially those of us with older ones who went to a top flagship just outside the-T25. The pressure is another level at ivies and I assume other T15 types. The resources and funds for undergraduate research/opportunities are unbelievably lavish, but it comes with an intensity that does not fit typical "average excellent" students

preach!

These kids have to get 1500+ and near perfect GPAs to even get looked at by the AO. A typical class president, varsity sports captain, editor of the school paper may get rejected. These are the kids whose parents who have the money may boost their chances with or without a college counselor.

The most gifted kid my child is friends with is lazy. Yes, he gets the same scores as DS. He plays one sport and does no extracurricular activities. I’m not sure if an AO can distinguish between my child and the lazy genius kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷‍♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.

x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.

I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.

It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.

I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.

we are UHNW, and I would NOT spend that type of money on college consultant. We spend $4.5K on CC and another $1K on SAT tutoring (10 individual sessions), and that was for all 4 years (but we only used it for 14 months). Because I agree, that if you have to spend that much, then perhaps that isn't the school for your kid (or my kid)

I wrote that I would get a college counselor. I have no idea the cost. My oldest is a sophomore in HS.

it an be done for 4-5K. For us that was "all in for 4 years, unlimited visits". They help you plan HS courses (we didn't need that) and most importantly help you find the right Reach, Target and Safeties for your kid. Of my kid's final Top 3 choices (2 targets and a gem of a safety), I would have only considered 1 of them. They also help your kid stay on schedule without you having to nag them---senior year is stressful enough. And the 1-1 SAT tutoring is best use of time and money. After 1 baseline test and 4 hours of review (based on results) my kid was essentially at their final score (+/-10 points). we could have been done then. But did a few more practice tests and review sessions. They teach the tricks for how to approach the test, help your kid see where they are making silly mistakes and in general just the taking of 4-5 practice tests help prepares your kid. For ex, all practice tests were to be done at 8am, just like the real SAT. Because yes, I'm certain my go to bed at 2am et up at noon kid would do better with a 2pm test but that isn't reality. So practice under real world conditions helps you

Can you recommend your sat prep? I bought my kid a psat book he didn’t open last summer and now sat book that is collecting dust.

not local, so no. But look for an individual company (not a national chain), ask for references and see their track record. A good one will sell to you by the hour--we did only 8 or 10 hours and were done. at that point they honestly told us, "if you want to spend 20-30 hours more and focus on the Verbal, with a ton of outside work you might raise that 700 to a 750, but it's not worth it (and my kid didn't want to). So basically, a good tutor knows that it only takes 8-10 hours(or less) to arrive at your kid's ideal score. If they want to sell you a 30 hour+ package, run away.

For ex: my kid started with 1330 baseline, after 4 hours of 1-1 (3 verbal and 1 hour math), they scored 1480 on next practice test. That was their final score. All other practice tests and real tests were within 20 points +/-. So in reality, those 4 hours was all that was needed---just an overview of where their main issues were, and pointers/tricks for understanding the structure of the test and how to approach it. The next 4-6 hours were just reviewing additional practice tests and identifying errors. And practice, because the more real life situation tests (simulations okay) you do the better prepared you are for the real arrive at 7:15am to the test center on a Sat situation.

So my kid got a 150 point increase. With only 4 hours of work. Our tutor says that is normal. If you start at a lower score, then you might need 8-10 hours to reach a final score (a smart kid who only gets 1200 on baseline has more room to improve/errors to find). But nobody really needs 20-30 hours.

If you need much more than 6-12 hours, you are probably doing homework during tutoring time and you are paying someone to walk your kid through homework.

The truly naturally gifted smart kids are getting 1200 on the SAT in 6th grade. They don’t require any tutoring. They get near perfect or perfect scores in one sitting on the first try when they take the test as a junior or senior for college admissions. They don’t need to spend hours and hours studying or hiring tutors in High School - even at the most competitive schools taking the most rigorous courses. I know this because I have this kid. And as a parent you really only understand what I’m talking about if you have a kid like this. Our other kids are smart - work really hard and get good grades, study, tutoring, etc to get good test scores. But it is not the same. There is no comparison.

AOs can’t tell the difference between the SMART kids and the ones that prepped and got tutoring and took the SAT 3 or 4 times. (Not saying there’s anything wrong with kids working super hard to improve). So I imagine at top schools you’re surrounded mostly by hard workers (and/or kids of parents who can hire the best of the best to tutor, curate etc) not necessarily the brightest kids out there.

Get that. I also don't think anybody (except parents of those kids) would actually think it's best to fill a freshman class with 1600 of the kids who "didn't have to work much and are truly just naturally 1600 on SAT smart". This isn't grad school getting your PHD (then yes, that is what the top schools want and get). There is more to being life than that and I think most colleges want a balanced group of students, including those who get a 1400 on their SAT, then get a bit of tutoring (3-5 hours) and turn it into 1520+ (note I said a bit of tutoring---30+ hours can turn any moderate kid Into "really smart" on paper). Because in the real world, you function in a group, you get to bounce your ideas off of others and work together, and I can assure you the best group is not always the one with 10 "of the naturally just really smart kids"

Exactly. There is more to life than getting top grades and getting into a T10/Ivy. That’s exactly my point. All these parents on here with the tutors and consultants and test prep trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. I’m just saying there are kids that are naturally inclined towards high stats. They can be well rounded and not stressed because it’s easy for them—
Versus the kids that have to grind and stress all through high school, all through college for what? To say the graduated from xyz name brand school? It’s crazy to me - which is I believe the entire subject of this thread.

Yes to this. The square pegs rarely get through and if they do they struggle. The harsh reality is that a decent portion of the naturally bright, 1500+ easily, tough-courses-come-easy in high school, juggle everything “round pegs” kids (who would fit in perfectly at these T10/ivies) still find themselves waitlisted or rejected at all T10/ivy.
These elite schools are not for everyone and many who they are for still do not get in to a single one! Others get into multiple—usually they are the true outliers.

[Anonymous]

Oops I flipped the round and square pegs ! Meant round ones dont get in but many of the “fit ivy” square ones dont either

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷‍♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.

x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.

I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.

It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.

I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.

we are UHNW, and I would NOT spend that type of money on college consultant. We spend $4.5K on CC and another $1K on SAT tutoring (10 individual sessions), and that was for all 4 years (but we only used it for 14 months). Because I agree, that if you have to spend that much, then perhaps that isn't the school for your kid (or my kid)

I wrote that I would get a college counselor. I have no idea the cost. My oldest is a sophomore in HS.

it an be done for 4-5K. For us that was "all in for 4 years, unlimited visits". They help you plan HS courses (we didn't need that) and most importantly help you find the right Reach, Target and Safeties for your kid. Of my kid's final Top 3 choices (2 targets and a gem of a safety), I would have only considered 1 of them. They also help your kid stay on schedule without you having to nag them---senior year is stressful enough. And the 1-1 SAT tutoring is best use of time and money. After 1 baseline test and 4 hours of review (based on results) my kid was essentially at their final score (+/-10 points). we could have been done then. But did a few more practice tests and review sessions. They teach the tricks for how to approach the test, help your kid see where they are making silly mistakes and in general just the taking of 4-5 practice tests help prepares your kid. For ex, all practice tests were to be done at 8am, just like the real SAT. Because yes, I'm certain my go to bed at 2am et up at noon kid would do better with a 2pm test but that isn't reality. So practice under real world conditions helps you

Can you recommend your sat prep? I bought my kid a psat book he didn’t open last summer and now sat book that is collecting dust.

not local, so no. But look for an individual company (not a national chain), ask for references and see their track record. A good one will sell to you by the hour--we did only 8 or 10 hours and were done. at that point they honestly told us, "if you want to spend 20-30 hours more and focus on the Verbal, with a ton of outside work you might raise that 700 to a 750, but it's not worth it (and my kid didn't want to). So basically, a good tutor knows that it only takes 8-10 hours(or less) to arrive at your kid's ideal score. If they want to sell you a 30 hour+ package, run away.

For ex: my kid started with 1330 baseline, after 4 hours of 1-1 (3 verbal and 1 hour math), they scored 1480 on next practice test. That was their final score. All other practice tests and real tests were within 20 points +/-. So in reality, those 4 hours was all that was needed---just an overview of where their main issues were, and pointers/tricks for understanding the structure of the test and how to approach it. The next 4-6 hours were just reviewing additional practice tests and identifying errors. And practice, because the more real life situation tests (simulations okay) you do the better prepared you are for the real arrive at 7:15am to the test center on a Sat situation.

So my kid got a 150 point increase. With only 4 hours of work. Our tutor says that is normal. If you start at a lower score, then you might need 8-10 hours to reach a final score (a smart kid who only gets 1200 on baseline has more room to improve/errors to find). But nobody really needs 20-30 hours.

If you need much more than 6-12 hours, you are probably doing homework during tutoring time and you are paying someone to walk your kid through homework.

The truly naturally gifted smart kids are getting 1200 on the SAT in 6th grade. They don’t require any tutoring. They get near perfect or perfect scores in one sitting on the first try when they take the test as a junior or senior for college admissions. They don’t need to spend hours and hours studying or hiring tutors in High School - even at the most competitive schools taking the most rigorous courses. I know this because I have this kid. And as a parent you really only understand what I’m talking about if you have a kid like this. Our other kids are smart - work really hard and get good grades, study, tutoring, etc to get good test scores. But it is not the same. There is no comparison.

AOs can’t tell the difference between the SMART kids and the ones that prepped and got tutoring and took the SAT 3 or 4 times. (Not saying there’s anything wrong with kids working super hard to improve). So I imagine at top schools you’re surrounded mostly by hard workers (and/or kids of parents who can hire the best of the best to tutor, curate etc) not necessarily the brightest kids out there.

Get that. I also don't think anybody (except parents of those kids) would actually think it's best to fill a freshman class with 1600 of the kids who "didn't have to work much and are truly just naturally 1600 on SAT smart". This isn't grad school getting your PHD (then yes, that is what the top schools want and get). There is more to being life than that and I think most colleges want a balanced group of students, including those who get a 1400 on their SAT, then get a bit of tutoring (3-5 hours) and turn it into 1520+ (note I said a bit of tutoring---30+ hours can turn any moderate kid Into "really smart" on paper). Because in the real world, you function in a group, you get to bounce your ideas off of others and work together, and I can assure you the best group is not always the one with 10 "of the naturally just really smart kids"

Exactly. There is more to life than getting top grades and getting into a T10/Ivy. That’s exactly my point. All these parents on here with the tutors and consultants and test prep trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. I’m just saying there are kids that are naturally inclined towards high stats. They can be well rounded and not stressed because it’s easy for them—
Versus the kids that have to grind and stress all through high school, all through college for what? To say the graduated from xyz name brand school? It’s crazy to me - which is I believe the entire subject of this thread.

First not every kid, even with hundreds of hours of tutoring can break 1500, even 1400. The kids who do, tutoring or not, are in fact really, really smart. Maybe you just don't like that they look the same as your kid on paper? Don't worry, the LOR will tell your kid's genius story.

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Anonymous wrote:I grew up in FCPS and moved away after college. Fast forward almost 30 years and we moved back for a job for a few years. My mind was blown when my kid came home and said her classmate’s family paid $30,000 for college prep for each kid. If you have to pay for a kid to get guided to a certain college, perhaps that college isn’t the right fit🤷‍♀️ You can’t hold your kid’s hand in college. Give them encouragement, but let their own motivation be what leads their way. My heart breaks for these kids who are under so much pressure from their parents. I hear you, OP.

x1000 We did not do any of the $ or tutors to stay in the top math group or other snowplow parenting and somehow they still got in to ivies unhooked.
Yet based on FB parent groups, some of the parents still helicopter and try to over-manage in college, angst over med school or law apps. No parent ever tried to help with college classes or med school back then. It is sad, their kids must have horrible self esteem. Ivies are competitive enough without constantly wondering if you would have gotten in without all the help or other hooks.

I guess I view the expense differently. If you make a ton of money, then what’s $30k, $50k even $100k to spend on these consultants. Once you decide to use one then you go for the best/the one that eases the path.

It’s hard to grasp when for 99.5%, that $30k is real money.

I don’t disagree with what you say, but know UHNW folks that think nothing of spending these sums.

we are UHNW, and I would NOT spend that type of money on college consultant. We spend $4.5K on CC and another $1K on SAT tutoring (10 individual sessions), and that was for all 4 years (but we only used it for 14 months). Because I agree, that if you have to spend that much, then perhaps that isn't the school for your kid (or my kid)

I wrote that I would get a college counselor. I have no idea the cost. My oldest is a sophomore in HS.

it an be done for 4-5K. For us that was "all in for 4 years, unlimited visits". They help you plan HS courses (we didn't need that) and most importantly help you find the right Reach, Target and Safeties for your kid. Of my kid's final Top 3 choices (2 targets and a gem of a safety), I would have only considered 1 of them. They also help your kid stay on schedule without you having to nag them---senior year is stressful enough. And the 1-1 SAT tutoring is best use of time and money. After 1 baseline test and 4 hours of review (based on results) my kid was essentially at their final score (+/-10 points). we could have been done then. But did a few more practice tests and review sessions. They teach the tricks for how to approach the test, help your kid see where they are making silly mistakes and in general just the taking of 4-5 practice tests help prepares your kid. For ex, all practice tests were to be done at 8am, just like the real SAT. Because yes, I'm certain my go to bed at 2am et up at noon kid would do better with a 2pm test but that isn't reality. So practice under real world conditions helps you

Can you recommend your sat prep? I bought my kid a psat book he didn’t open last summer and now sat book that is collecting dust.

not local, so no. But look for an individual company (not a national chain), ask for references and see their track record. A good one will sell to you by the hour--we did only 8 or 10 hours and were done. at that point they honestly told us, "if you want to spend 20-30 hours more and focus on the Verbal, with a ton of outside work you might raise that 700 to a 750, but it's not worth it (and my kid didn't want to). So basically, a good tutor knows that it only takes 8-10 hours(or less) to arrive at your kid's ideal score. If they want to sell you a 30 hour+ package, run away.

For ex: my kid started with 1330 baseline, after 4 hours of 1-1 (3 verbal and 1 hour math), they scored 1480 on next practice test. That was their final score. All other practice tests and real tests were within 20 points +/-. So in reality, those 4 hours was all that was needed---just an overview of where their main issues were, and pointers/tricks for understanding the structure of the test and how to approach it. The next 4-6 hours were just reviewing additional practice tests and identifying errors. And practice, because the more real life situation tests (simulations okay) you do the better prepared you are for the real arrive at 7:15am to the test center on a Sat situation.

So my kid got a 150 point increase. With only 4 hours of work. Our tutor says that is normal. If you start at a lower score, then you might need 8-10 hours to reach a final score (a smart kid who only gets 1200 on baseline has more room to improve/errors to find). But nobody really needs 20-30 hours.

If you need much more than 6-12 hours, you are probably doing homework during tutoring time and you are paying someone to walk your kid through homework.

The truly naturally gifted smart kids are getting 1200 on the SAT in 6th grade. They don’t require any tutoring. They get near perfect or perfect scores in one sitting on the first try when they take the test as a junior or senior for college admissions. They don’t need to spend hours and hours studying or hiring tutors in High School - even at the most competitive schools taking the most rigorous courses. I know this because I have this kid. And as a parent you really only understand what I’m talking about if you have a kid like this. Our other kids are smart - work really hard and get good grades, study, tutoring, etc to get good test scores. But it is not the same. There is no comparison.

AOs can’t tell the difference between the SMART kids and the ones that prepped and got tutoring and took the SAT 3 or 4 times. (Not saying there’s anything wrong with kids working super hard to improve). So I imagine at top schools you’re surrounded mostly by hard workers (and/or kids of parents who can hire the best of the best to tutor, curate etc) not necessarily the brightest kids out there.

Get that. I also don't think anybody (except parents of those kids) would actually think it's best to fill a freshman class with 1600 of the kids who "didn't have to work much and are truly just naturally 1600 on SAT smart". This isn't grad school getting your PHD (then yes, that is what the top schools want and get). There is more to being life than that and I think most colleges want a balanced group of students, including those who get a 1400 on their SAT, then get a bit of tutoring (3-5 hours) and turn it into 1520+ (note I said a bit of tutoring---30+ hours can turn any moderate kid Into "really smart" on paper). Because in the real world, you function in a group, you get to bounce your ideas off of others and work together, and I can assure you the best group is not always the one with 10 "of the naturally just really smart kids"

Exactly. There is more to life than getting top grades and getting into a T10/Ivy. That’s exactly my point. All these parents on here with the tutors and consultants and test prep trying to shove a round peg into a square hole. I’m just saying there are kids that are naturally inclined towards high stats. They can be well rounded and not stressed because it’s easy for them—
Versus the kids that have to grind and stress all through high school, all through college for what? To say the graduated from xyz name brand school? It’s crazy to me - which is I believe the entire subject of this thread.

Yes to this. The square pegs rarely get through and if they do they struggle. The harsh reality is that a decent portion of the naturally bright, 1500+ easily, tough-courses-come-easy in high school, juggle everything “round pegs” kids (who would fit in perfectly at these T10/ivies) still find themselves waitlisted or rejected at all T10/ivy.
These elite schools are not for everyone and many who they are for still do not get in to a single one! Others get into multiple—usually they are the true outliers.

So what? Your rejected peg will do great wherever they go, and these Ivy colleges are not the end all be all, nor is undergrad the end of the line for education for truly exceptional academics. No one 'needs' to attend and Ivy as validation for their brilliance -- there are tons of genuinely terrible people who are not that smart at those schools, and this has always been true. These schools were never solely about gathering the brightest minds, and have always been more about the social status of students, with a few "regular joes" who are brilliant peppered in because the old money, the rich, and the famous want their average kids to be around brilliant people -- used to be so they could control the brain trust in addition to the literal trust. That may still be true. But don't think for a minute that you're missing something awesome by not going there, or that your genuinely brilliant kid is therefore doomed.