APS Yondr Pouch: Opening at home questions

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my kid has a fake one in the pouch. This experiment cost us 130K.


You’re such a cool mom!!

So if your kid doesn’t use their phone all day, why do they bother with a fake one?


DP. Obviously in case of emergency/lockdown. That’s why we’ve considered this, too, and I’m sure many others are also doing it.


Yup my friend's kid was in a lockdown. Phones were required to be in lockers. School made kids leave without letting them get their phones. Kids had no way to contact parents to get home. It was a freakin nightmare.

I don't trust APS one bit not to do this again.



I am very confident that the emergency you refer to was not so critical that it warranted immediate notification; and that if it had, the school would have alerted the community appropriately at the time. What you consider an emergency that you - and apparently all parents - must know about immediately in real time, is not necessarily something that you - and all parents - need to know immediately and in real time.

It is because of parents like you that we have to get an email and a text every time am ambulance shows up at a school, a fire alarm went off mistakenly and the fire department had to show up, the power goes out for 20 minutes, emergency personnel are called for an individual staff member or student's medical emergency, there is an after-school fight off-campus but some involved students then walked backed onto campus, and for every state mandated and planned lockdown and fire drill.

Kids don't HAVE to contact parents to get picked up. Schools will send out communications. Just won't be as fast and direct with your student as you prefer.


It's a sub-par solution to a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place.


The bigger and more frequent problem is phones in the classroom; the lockdown which becomes school dismissal without access to the school — how often does that happen??? Most lockdowns resolve and return to normal schedule, what is going on at these schools that they throw their hands up and say “whatevs, go home”.


There are plenty of lockdowns -- two on our campus in the past three months -- usually due to some false alarm or outside situation. My school has not made assuring parents that everything is fine a priority. You get an email hours later and long after your kid has gotten in touch. For sure, you hear more reliably and sooner from your own kid. If you are perfectly happy to wait and wonder, have at it but stick to parenting your own kid. I'm not giving up access to my kid to appease the zealous anti-screeners. Putting phones away during instructional time does not necessitate this overbroad and unduly expensive solution.


So you have had two lockdowns where the kid were released from school without given time to go their lockers since school started (which around here is 2 months ago). What district is this?


FCPS. There was one in August and one recently on our campus. I just checked the recent one and the email we got from the school was sent well after the return to normal operations. So, no, the school's track record is not to communicate timely. Again, if it's not important to you to be in touch with your kid, I fully respect that parenting choice, but I'm making a different and equally appropriate one. Phones have their downsides that I'll manage on my own as a parent, including making it clear to my kids that phones are away during instructional time. Phones also have considerable upsides and nothing in this thread has been persuasive that those should be tossed out with the bath water.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my kid has a fake one in the pouch. This experiment cost us 130K.


You’re such a cool mom!!

So if your kid doesn’t use their phone all day, why do they bother with a fake one?


DP. Obviously in case of emergency/lockdown. That’s why we’ve considered this, too, and I’m sure many others are also doing it.


Yup my friend's kid was in a lockdown. Phones were required to be in lockers. School made kids leave without letting them get their phones. Kids had no way to contact parents to get home. It was a freakin nightmare.

I don't trust APS one bit not to do this again.



I am very confident that the emergency you refer to was not so critical that it warranted immediate notification; and that if it had, the school would have alerted the community appropriately at the time. What you consider an emergency that you - and apparently all parents - must know about immediately in real time, is not necessarily something that you - and all parents - need to know immediately and in real time.

It is because of parents like you that we have to get an email and a text every time am ambulance shows up at a school, a fire alarm went off mistakenly and the fire department had to show up, the power goes out for 20 minutes, emergency personnel are called for an individual staff member or student's medical emergency, there is an after-school fight off-campus but some involved students then walked backed onto campus, and for every state mandated and planned lockdown and fire drill.

Kids don't HAVE to contact parents to get picked up. Schools will send out communications. Just won't be as fast and direct with your student as you prefer.


It's a sub-par solution to a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place.


The bigger and more frequent problem is phones in the classroom; the lockdown which becomes school dismissal without access to the school — how often does that happen??? Most lockdowns resolve and return to normal schedule, what is going on at these schools that they throw their hands up and say “whatevs, go home”.


There are plenty of lockdowns -- two on our campus in the past three months -- usually due to some false alarm or outside situation. My school has not made assuring parents that everything is fine a priority. You get an email hours later and long after your kid has gotten in touch. For sure, you hear more reliably and sooner from your own kid. If you are perfectly happy to wait and wonder, have at it but stick to parenting your own kid. I'm not giving up access to my kid to appease the zealous anti-screeners. Putting phones away during instructional time does not necessitate this overbroad and unduly expensive solution.


So you have had two lockdowns where the kid were released from school without given time to go their lockers since school started (which around here is 2 months ago). What district is this?


FCPS. There was one in August and one recently on our campus. I just checked the recent one and the email we got from the school was sent well after the return to normal operations. So, no, the school's track record is not to communicate timely. Again, if it's not important to you to be in touch with your kid, I fully respect that parenting choice, but I'm making a different and equally appropriate one. Phones have their downsides that I'll manage on my own as a parent, including making it clear to my kids that phones are away during instructional time. Phones also have considerable upsides and nothing in this thread has been persuasive that those should be tossed out with the bath water.


Phones have almost no upsides in an academic setting when compared to their alternative choices.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:My kids had a lockdown at Gunston last year or the year before. Most kids phones were in their lockers and kids were not allowed to go back to their lockers before going home. it was really not a big deal. Teachers and bus drivers and other adults lent kids their phones to call home and kids could also just take the bus home. it was a Friday and they opened the school the next morning for kids who wanted to get stuff from their lockers (including their phones).

Bottom line, kids not having access to their phones was fine. I would not want my kid distracted by their phone in a real emergency anyway.


It wasn't fine for all those other kids. You know, not everyone can just take the bus home, if they aren't assigned a bus. Or they go somewhere else after school.

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my kid has a fake one in the pouch. This experiment cost us 130K.


You’re such a cool mom!!

So if your kid doesn’t use their phone all day, why do they bother with a fake one?


DP. Obviously in case of emergency/lockdown. That’s why we’ve considered this, too, and I’m sure many others are also doing it.


Yup my friend's kid was in a lockdown. Phones were required to be in lockers. School made kids leave without letting them get their phones. Kids had no way to contact parents to get home. It was a freakin nightmare.

I don't trust APS one bit not to do this again.



Kids don't HAVE to contact parents to get picked up. Schools will send out communications. Just won't be as fast and direct with your student as you prefer.


It's a sub-par solution to a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place.


The bigger and more frequent problem is phones in the classroom; the lockdown which becomes school dismissal without access to the school — how often does that happen??? Most lockdowns resolve and return to normal schedule, what is going on at these schools that they throw their hands up and say “whatevs, go home”.


There are plenty of lockdowns -- two on our campus in the past three months -- usually due to some false alarm or outside situation. My school has not made assuring parents that everything is fine a priority. You get an email hours later and long after your kid has gotten in touch. For sure, you hear more reliably and sooner from your own kid. If you are perfectly happy to wait and wonder, have at it but stick to parenting your own kid. I'm not giving up access to my kid to appease the zealous anti-screeners. Putting phones away during instructional time does not necessitate this overbroad and unduly expensive solution.


So you have had two lockdowns where the kid were released from school without given time to go their lockers since school started (which around here is 2 months ago). What district is this?


FCPS. There was one in August and one recently on our campus. I just checked the recent one and the email we got from the school was sent well after the return to normal operations. So, no, the school's track record is not to communicate timely. Again, if it's not important to you to be in touch with your kid, I fully respect that parenting choice, but I'm making a different and equally appropriate one. Phones have their downsides that I'll manage on my own as a parent, including making it clear to my kids that phones are away during instructional time. Phones also have considerable upsides and nothing in this thread has been persuasive that those should be tossed out with the bath water.


You are saying they returned to normal operations, so the kids weren’t released to the steer without phones nor without notifying the parents.

Are you this tethered to a HIGH school student?? What are you doing when they go to college?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my kid has a fake one in the pouch. This experiment cost us 130K.


You’re such a cool mom!!

So if your kid doesn’t use their phone all day, why do they bother with a fake one?


DP. Obviously in case of emergency/lockdown. That’s why we’ve considered this, too, and I’m sure many others are also doing it.


Yup my friend's kid was in a lockdown. Phones were required to be in lockers. School made kids leave without letting them get their phones. Kids had no way to contact parents to get home. It was a freakin nightmare.

I don't trust APS one bit not to do this again.



I am very confident that the emergency you refer to was not so critical that it warranted immediate notification; and that if it had, the school would have alerted the community appropriately at the time. What you consider an emergency that you - and apparently all parents - must know about immediately in real time, is not necessarily something that you - and all parents - need to know immediately and in real time.

It is because of parents like you that we have to get an email and a text every time am ambulance shows up at a school, a fire alarm went off mistakenly and the fire department had to show up, the power goes out for 20 minutes, emergency personnel are called for an individual staff member or student's medical emergency, there is an after-school fight off-campus but some involved students then walked backed onto campus, and for every state mandated and planned lockdown and fire drill.

Kids don't HAVE to contact parents to get picked up. Schools will send out communications. Just won't be as fast and direct with your student as you prefer.


It's a sub-par solution to a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place.


The bigger and more frequent problem is phones in the classroom; the lockdown which becomes school dismissal without access to the school — how often does that happen??? Most lockdowns resolve and return to normal schedule, what is going on at these schools that they throw their hands up and say “whatevs, go home”.


There are plenty of lockdowns -- two on our campus in the past three months -- usually due to some false alarm or outside situation. My school has not made assuring parents that everything is fine a priority. You get an email hours later and long after your kid has gotten in touch. For sure, you hear more reliably and sooner from your own kid. If you are perfectly happy to wait and wonder, have at it but stick to parenting your own kid. I'm not giving up access to my kid to appease the zealous anti-screeners. Putting phones away during instructional time does not necessitate this overbroad and unduly expensive solution.


So you have had two lockdowns where the kid were released from school without given time to go their lockers since school started (which around here is 2 months ago). What district is this?


FCPS. There was one in August and one recently on our campus. I just checked the recent one and the email we got from the school was sent well after the return to normal operations. So, no, the school's track record is not to communicate timely. Again, if it's not important to you to be in touch with your kid, I fully respect that parenting choice, but I'm making a different and equally appropriate one. Phones have their downsides that I'll manage on my own as a parent, including making it clear to my kids that phones are away during instructional time. Phones also have considerable upsides and nothing in this thread has been persuasive that those should be tossed out with the bath water.


Phones have almost no upsides in an academic setting when compared to their alternative choices.


Alternative choices? Like carrier pigeon? Smoke signals?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my kid has a fake one in the pouch. This experiment cost us 130K.


You’re such a cool mom!!

So if your kid doesn’t use their phone all day, why do they bother with a fake one?


DP. Obviously in case of emergency/lockdown. That’s why we’ve considered this, too, and I’m sure many others are also doing it.


Yup my friend's kid was in a lockdown. Phones were required to be in lockers. School made kids leave without letting them get their phones. Kids had no way to contact parents to get home. It was a freakin nightmare.

I don't trust APS one bit not to do this again.



Kids don't HAVE to contact parents to get picked up. Schools will send out communications. Just won't be as fast and direct with your student as you prefer.


It's a sub-par solution to a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place.


The bigger and more frequent problem is phones in the classroom; the lockdown which becomes school dismissal without access to the school — how often does that happen??? Most lockdowns resolve and return to normal schedule, what is going on at these schools that they throw their hands up and say “whatevs, go home”.


There are plenty of lockdowns -- two on our campus in the past three months -- usually due to some false alarm or outside situation. My school has not made assuring parents that everything is fine a priority. You get an email hours later and long after your kid has gotten in touch. For sure, you hear more reliably and sooner from your own kid. If you are perfectly happy to wait and wonder, have at it but stick to parenting your own kid. I'm not giving up access to my kid to appease the zealous anti-screeners. Putting phones away during instructional time does not necessitate this overbroad and unduly expensive solution.


How old are you? This level of control and paranoia is intense.

I would address the schools notification policy; when they initiate a lockdown an automated text goes out for our school. Our swim team manages this so I expect maybe you are just on a crummy school system? That is a pretty easy fix with maybe a new role for an admin in the front office.


Your kids swim team handles this so you’re so sure schools can? Lmao
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My kids had a lockdown at Gunston last year or the year before. Most kids phones were in their lockers and kids were not allowed to go back to their lockers before going home. it was really not a big deal. Teachers and bus drivers and other adults lent kids their phones to call home and kids could also just take the bus home. it was a Friday and they opened the school the next morning for kids who wanted to get stuff from their lockers (including their phones).

Bottom line, kids not having access to their phones was fine. I would not want my kid distracted by their phone in a real emergency anyway.


It wasn't fine for all those other kids. You know, not everyone can just take the bus home, if they aren't assigned a bus. Or they go somewhere else after school.



So, what wasn't ok for these kids? Others lent phones to kids so they could make calls ....are you implying they only let kids who ride buses call someone?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my kid has a fake one in the pouch. This experiment cost us 130K.


You’re such a cool mom!!

So if your kid doesn’t use their phone all day, why do they bother with a fake one?


DP. Obviously in case of emergency/lockdown. That’s why we’ve considered this, too, and I’m sure many others are also doing it.


Yup my friend's kid was in a lockdown. Phones were required to be in lockers. School made kids leave without letting them get their phones. Kids had no way to contact parents to get home. It was a freakin nightmare.

I don't trust APS one bit not to do this again.



Kids don't HAVE to contact parents to get picked up. Schools will send out communications. Just won't be as fast and direct with your student as you prefer.


It's a sub-par solution to a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place.


The bigger and more frequent problem is phones in the classroom; the lockdown which becomes school dismissal without access to the school — how often does that happen??? Most lockdowns resolve and return to normal schedule, what is going on at these schools that they throw their hands up and say “whatevs, go home”.


There are plenty of lockdowns -- two on our campus in the past three months -- usually due to some false alarm or outside situation. My school has not made assuring parents that everything is fine a priority. You get an email hours later and long after your kid has gotten in touch. For sure, you hear more reliably and sooner from your own kid. If you are perfectly happy to wait and wonder, have at it but stick to parenting your own kid. I'm not giving up access to my kid to appease the zealous anti-screeners. Putting phones away during instructional time does not necessitate this overbroad and unduly expensive solution.


So you have had two lockdowns where the kid were released from school without given time to go their lockers since school started (which around here is 2 months ago). What district is this?


FCPS. There was one in August and one recently on our campus. I just checked the recent one and the email we got from the school was sent well after the return to normal operations. So, no, the school's track record is not to communicate timely. Again, if it's not important to you to be in touch with your kid, I fully respect that parenting choice, but I'm making a different and equally appropriate one. Phones have their downsides that I'll manage on my own as a parent, including making it clear to my kids that phones are away during instructional time. Phones also have considerable upsides and nothing in this thread has been persuasive that those should be tossed out with the bath water.


You are saying they returned to normal operations, so the kids weren’t released to the steer without phones nor without notifying the parents.

Are you this tethered to a HIGH school student?? What are you doing when they go to college?


Yep, totally. When other parents are all “I only talk to my kid between the hours of 5-7,” I’m all “I sent my kid a text at 2 asking if he’d be up for tacos or pasta for dinner.” Mind: blown. It’s really quite shocking what I’m doing to the kid. I’ve considered turning myself in to Child and Family Services but for now we’re both going to therapy about it, and the counselor is helping us understand that simple inquiries like these are going to slowly destroy my kid one text at a time. And probably he won’t be able to handle a world in which -- someday -- he might have to get dinner for himself without discussing it beforehand. I’m really not sure what the future looks like. I’ve accepted that my kid will almost certainly be jailed or homeless by the time he’s 21 if he hasn’t gone Menendez brothers on me by then.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my kid has a fake one in the pouch. This experiment cost us 130K.


You’re such a cool mom!!

So if your kid doesn’t use their phone all day, why do they bother with a fake one?


DP. Obviously in case of emergency/lockdown. That’s why we’ve considered this, too, and I’m sure many others are also doing it.


Yup my friend's kid was in a lockdown. Phones were required to be in lockers. School made kids leave without letting them get their phones. Kids had no way to contact parents to get home. It was a freakin nightmare.

I don't trust APS one bit not to do this again.



Kids don't HAVE to contact parents to get picked up. Schools will send out communications. Just won't be as fast and direct with your student as you prefer.


It's a sub-par solution to a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place.


The bigger and more frequent problem is phones in the classroom; the lockdown which becomes school dismissal without access to the school — how often does that happen??? Most lockdowns resolve and return to normal schedule, what is going on at these schools that they throw their hands up and say “whatevs, go home”.


There are plenty of lockdowns -- two on our campus in the past three months -- usually due to some false alarm or outside situation. My school has not made assuring parents that everything is fine a priority. You get an email hours later and long after your kid has gotten in touch. For sure, you hear more reliably and sooner from your own kid. If you are perfectly happy to wait and wonder, have at it but stick to parenting your own kid. I'm not giving up access to my kid to appease the zealous anti-screeners. Putting phones away during instructional time does not necessitate this overbroad and unduly expensive solution.


So you have had two lockdowns where the kid were released from school without given time to go their lockers since school started (which around here is 2 months ago). What district is this?


FCPS. There was one in August and one recently on our campus. I just checked the recent one and the email we got from the school was sent well after the return to normal operations. So, no, the school's track record is not to communicate timely. Again, if it's not important to you to be in touch with your kid, I fully respect that parenting choice, but I'm making a different and equally appropriate one. Phones have their downsides that I'll manage on my own as a parent, including making it clear to my kids that phones are away during instructional time. Phones also have considerable upsides and nothing in this thread has been persuasive that those should be tossed out with the bath water.


You are saying they returned to normal operations, so the kids weren’t released to the steer without phones nor without notifying the parents.

Are you this tethered to a HIGH school student?? What are you doing when they go to college?


Yep, totally. When other parents are all “I only talk to my kid between the hours of 5-7,” I’m all “I sent my kid a text at 2 asking if he’d be up for tacos or pasta for dinner.” Mind: blown. It’s really quite shocking what I’m doing to the kid. I’ve considered turning myself in to Child and Family Services but for now we’re both going to therapy about it, and the counselor is helping us understand that simple inquiries like these are going to slowly destroy my kid one text at a time. And probably he won’t be able to handle a world in which -- someday -- he might have to get dinner for himself without discussing it beforehand. I’m really not sure what the future looks like. I’ve accepted that my kid will almost certainly be jailed or homeless by the time he’s 21 if he hasn’t gone Menendez brothers on me by then.


I wish I could be certain this is satire.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Here's an article from Wakefield from students' perspective .

https://www.washingtonian.com/2024/10/02/heres-what-students-think-of-new-cell-phone-restrictions-in-arlington-schools/


I think it is not going as badly as parents hoped it would.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:my kid has a fake one in the pouch. This experiment cost us 130K.


You’re such a cool mom!!

So if your kid doesn’t use their phone all day, why do they bother with a fake one?


DP. Obviously in case of emergency/lockdown. That’s why we’ve considered this, too, and I’m sure many others are also doing it.


Yup my friend's kid was in a lockdown. Phones were required to be in lockers. School made kids leave without letting them get their phones. Kids had no way to contact parents to get home. It was a freakin nightmare.

I don't trust APS one bit not to do this again.



Kids don't HAVE to contact parents to get picked up. Schools will send out communications. Just won't be as fast and direct with your student as you prefer.


It's a sub-par solution to a problem that doesn't need to exist in the first place.


The bigger and more frequent problem is phones in the classroom; the lockdown which becomes school dismissal without access to the school — how often does that happen??? Most lockdowns resolve and return to normal schedule, what is going on at these schools that they throw their hands up and say “whatevs, go home”.


There are plenty of lockdowns -- two on our campus in the past three months -- usually due to some false alarm or outside situation. My school has not made assuring parents that everything is fine a priority. You get an email hours later and long after your kid has gotten in touch. For sure, you hear more reliably and sooner from your own kid. If you are perfectly happy to wait and wonder, have at it but stick to parenting your own kid. I'm not giving up access to my kid to appease the zealous anti-screeners. Putting phones away during instructional time does not necessitate this overbroad and unduly expensive solution.


So you have had two lockdowns where the kid were released from school without given time to go their lockers since school started (which around here is 2 months ago). What district is this?


FCPS. There was one in August and one recently on our campus. I just checked the recent one and the email we got from the school was sent well after the return to normal operations. So, no, the school's track record is not to communicate timely. Again, if it's not important to you to be in touch with your kid, I fully respect that parenting choice, but I'm making a different and equally appropriate one. Phones have their downsides that I'll manage on my own as a parent, including making it clear to my kids that phones are away during instructional time. Phones also have considerable upsides and nothing in this thread has been persuasive that those should be tossed out with the bath water.


You are saying they returned to normal operations, so the kids weren’t released to the steer without phones nor without notifying the parents.

Are you this tethered to a HIGH school student?? What are you doing when they go to college?


Yep, totally. When other parents are all “I only talk to my kid between the hours of 5-7,” I’m all “I sent my kid a text at 2 asking if he’d be up for tacos or pasta for dinner.” Mind: blown. It’s really quite shocking what I’m doing to the kid. I’ve considered turning myself in to Child and Family Services but for now we’re both going to therapy about it, and the counselor is helping us understand that simple inquiries like these are going to slowly destroy my kid one text at a time. And probably he won’t be able to handle a world in which -- someday -- he might have to get dinner for himself without discussing it beforehand. I’m really not sure what the future looks like. I’ve accepted that my kid will almost certainly be jailed or homeless by the time he’s 21 if he hasn’t gone Menendez brothers on me by then.


I wish I could be certain this is satire.


+1
The biggest problem is the parent texting their student at 2:00.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Here's an article from Wakefield from students' perspective .

https://www.washingtonian.com/2024/10/02/heres-what-students-think-of-new-cell-phone-restrictions-in-arlington-schools/


Surely they'll figure out they can listen to music via their macbooks.
Other than that, they don't seem to have a big issue.
Anonymous
Well I guess students and parents have gotten use to the pouches and nothing dire has happened because of them.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Well I guess students and parents have gotten use to the pouches and nothing dire has happened because of them.


Not surprising. I'm sure individuals are having their fits, though.
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