Virginia Tech SAT Scores

[Anonymous]

During a tour at JMU this fall the AO said they do not care about the SAT. The SAT in decisions mattered "about as much as what you were having for lunch that day."

This is why the low percent submitting SAT's at JMU.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Transparen? Hardly. Have you even seen a VT Naviance chart lately?

There is more to admissions than stats. This has been addressed.

I'm really curious how they are able to put so much weight on supplemental essays--how they can even read them with that much care at that volume and make meaningful distinctions about how kids respond. And why? Are a few 150 word responses really that telling about how well you will succeed/make use of a technical education? It just really doesn't make sense to me.

They don't. This is just what people say to support the narrative of no yield protection and to justify VT rejecting high stats kids and accepting kids with 3.5 GPAs and 1250 SATs. As if a kid with a 4.5 and a 1590 SAT couildn't write a coherent 150 word essay.

You're dreaming if you think most kids accepted to VT have the bolded stats. You simply can't get over the fact that your kid was not accepted. Move on.

A 3.4 uw and 4.0 w gpa is pretty average at most high schools in Nova

I
VT's average is 4.4W

No. VT’s WGPA average is 3.97. GMUs is 3.8z UVA/WM WGPA is around 4.4.

Link to this information?
DP

I'm a different poster, but here's a link/info:
For 2022-2023==enrolled freshman, from SCHEV database: https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

GMU Median GPA: 3.76 %submitting test scores: 38.5% 1160-1340
JMU Median GPA: 3.88 %submitting test scores: 26.2% 1160-1310
VT Median GPA: 4.04 %submitting test scores: 56.6% 1230-1400
WM Median GPA :4.33 %submitting test scores: 70.6% 1375-1520
UVA Median GPA: 4.4 %submitting test scores: 70.9% 1400-1520

UVA& W&M are most similar, with high percentages of submitted test scores, nearly identical SAT spreads except W&M.

VT seems in the middle, with lower GPA and scores, and lower number of people submitting test scores than UVA/W&M, but higher than GMU/JMU.

Surprising to me that GMU seems almost identical to JMU in terms of stats of enrolled students--slightly higher SATs and higher percent of kids submitting scores. Slightly lower median GPA. In the past I thought of JMU as enrolling stronger students that GMU. It may be that students who start at GMU as freshman are very strong but then GMU has a higher transfer population from NOVA due to its proximity.

The percentage submitting is really the interesting number. Overall, those with lower percentages submitting are less selective than a school with a higher percentage submitting all other things being equal. The SAT range for JMU, for instance, is only reflective of slightly more than a quarter of the enrolled class. It is less than half of VT's submitting percentage and only about 37% of the percentage submitting for UVA and W&M.

I think the numbers are showing a downward trend in students' academic quality for JMU--it's really surprising to me that it has slightly lower SATs than GMU even though a fewer percent of students submitted scores to JMU. I think the rise of VT and GMU has come at a cost to JMU--maybe because they are perceived to have more STEM/career focus? This is a precarious time for colleges because after all these years of competing for students, they are going to be hitting the demographic cliff that started in lower birth rates in 2008/2009 recession and never quite let up. I wonder if JMU's strategy is to become popular with a broader range of students rather than to continuously admit more academically strong students? I know GMUs strategy has been to grow to meet demand rather than to become increasingly selective.

Not making excuses, but I believe the college class of 2026 was the first time JMU accepted the Common App. Applications have increased tremendously. Probably take them a couple of cycles to figure out where they "want to be".

This is a good point--the data may need to shake out after a bit. But plenty of schools have grown their profile/reputation by becoming less selective in terms of scores--there are obviously more kids with lower grades and SATs than those without. By loosening their admissions they can attract more people who think they have a chance which grows their popularity--an attractive safety or low-target is more needed than yet another competitive school.

VT is already doing this to some degree by having a fairly wide and less predictable acceptance pattern with variation by majors. VT is attracting more applications each year which necessarily lowers its acceptance rate, but it's not really becoming notably that much harder to get into when you look at GPA/SAT. UVA and WM which have much smaller student bodies instead just steadily attract more applications and continue to just admit mainly the highest scorers.

There is a huge amount of self-selection in Virginia publics. In state kids tend not to apply to schools that their counselors say are reaches. UVA and W&M have had much of their application growth from OOS and they may be the only two schools that are more selective from OOS than in-state. The rest of the Virginia publics are probably less selective from OOS than in-state. They are eager to get OOS students to get more tuition. I think VT has gotten more selective in state, which drives many of the comments, because historically kids with similar stats would have been admitted.

Disagree. Gen Z students (and their parents) do whatever they want

Eh, I don't think so--it's easier than ever to look at scores and see where they will get in. So even if they don't listen to counselors, they don't bother. Why pay the application fee, do the extra work when Naviance shows you have no chance?

Schools are receiving record apps. Kids are applying more, not less. And as this entire thread demonstrates, people actually can't predict anymore because it's so competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:During a tour at JMU this fall the AO said they do not care about the SAT. The SAT in decisions mattered "about as much as what you were having for lunch that day."

This is why the low percent submitting SAT's at JMU.

That's a bit misleading of them to say that because on their Common Data Set they write that SAT scores are "Considered" in JMUs admissions decisions, and ranked as high as the application essay and letters of recommendation. SAT scores are also termed "Considered" for VT, UVA, and GMU.

The only place SATs are identified more highly of that list is W&M, who deems them "Very Important"

I personally think that while the SAT has problematic aspects, it's good to consider scores as it is one externally consistent source of info not specific to your school.

[Anonymous]

So now the Tech boosters are parroting the "sorry your kid couldn't get in"...SMH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So now the Tech boosters are parroting the "sorry your kid couldn't get in"...SMH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:During a tour at JMU this fall the AO said they do not care about the SAT. The SAT in decisions mattered "about as much as what you were having for lunch that day."

This is why the low percent submitting SAT's at JMU.

That's a bit misleading of them to say that because on their Common Data Set they write that SAT scores are "Considered" in JMUs admissions decisions, and ranked as high as the application essay and letters of recommendation. SAT scores are also termed "Considered" for VT, UVA, and GMU.

The only place SATs are identified more highly of that list is W&M, who deems them "Very Important"

I personally think that while the SAT has problematic aspects, it's good to consider scores as it is one externally consistent source of info not specific to your school.

It's kind of interesting that schools have been downplaying SAT scores. I used to work for a consulting firm that liked to recruit primarily from schools where the majority of students had high SATs. Their perspective was that this was like being able to give an intelligence test to potential workers--if they went to x, y or z school they could be assured there were of a certain level of intelligence. This did not necessarily always correspond precisely with rank of school--some schools just tended to value SAT scores more than others in admissions. The firm's belief was that intelligent people would be most adaptable and able to learn whatever was needed. If more schools go test optional or don't consider SATs as much, I wonder how that will impact recruiting. (I know there are plenty of firms that don't think about intelligence or view SAT scores as markers of relevant intelligence, but I have been at several places where this was either the explicit or implicit guideline). I wonder if there will continue to be a niche set of schools that tend to pick high SAT scorers and encourage test submission that these firms will go for, or if the firms will change their recruitment guidelines).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:TJ doesn't represent the entire state - hell it doesn't even represent Fairfax County.

I didn't say it represented the entire state. Dear Lord. I was simply speculating that high stat kids in NOVA were getting turned off to Tech engineering by their recent admission trends focusing on first gen. Simply used recent TJ numbers as an example.

Only the bottom TJ kids are even interested in VaTech. In fact, TJ grads are NOT interested in colleges/universities period including UVA since it has weak CS/Engineering.

Then, sadly, TJ is hoist by its petard. First, VT wasn’t good enough for TJ. Now, through the application of perverse metrics, TJ isn’t good enough for VT.



The bolded is such utter BS, I don't even know where to begin. But do go on!
- a TJ parent

DP. You are correct. Absolute BS. Go look at all the high stats kids whose parents posted here and in college confidential about results during the last three years. Over and over high stats TJ kids were deferred or waitlisted or rejected. Some of the posts were tear-jerking because their kid wanted engineering and the parents couldn’t afford private or eve OSS engineering - the only great option in the Commonwealth had been closed to them and they had no alternative

Typically, the bottom 20-25% of the TJ grads even bother applying to VT. It is shameful to attend VT as a TJ grad.

[Anonymous]

So, it’s shameful not to be rich?
That outlook is shameful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, it’s shameful not to be rich?
That outlook is shameful.

+1 If attending VT was "shameful" then we would not have 21 pages of people crying they didn't get in and creating wild narratives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, it’s shameful not to be rich?
That outlook is shameful.

+1 If attending VT was "shameful" then we would not have 21 pages of people crying they didn't get in and creating wild narratives.

I don't think attending VT is shameful, but you're misrepresenting the discussion-- people -- many of whom didn't apply or did get in-- are discussing actual data that shows odd patterns of accepting lower scoring students over higher scoring students. I get that you might feel that this data pattern somehow "lessens" the value of VT's acceptance or something, but it really doesn't--it's a good school. You don't need to be defensive. You're clearly happy with VT--just go with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, it’s shameful not to be rich?
That outlook is shameful.

+1 If attending VT was "shameful" then we would not have 21 pages of people crying they didn't get in and creating wild narratives.

I don't think attending VT is shameful, but you're misrepresenting the discussion-- people -- many of whom didn't apply or did get in-- are discussing actual data that shows odd patterns of accepting lower scoring students over higher scoring students. I get that you might feel that this data pattern somehow "lessens" the value of VT's acceptance or something, but it really doesn't--it's a good school. You don't need to be defensive. You're clearly happy with VT--just go with it.

Perfectly stated. I'm one of cry babies who's son didn't even apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, it’s shameful not to be rich?
That outlook is shameful.

+1 If attending VT was "shameful" then we would not have 21 pages of people crying they didn't get in and creating wild narratives.

I don't think attending VT is shameful, but you're misrepresenting the discussion-- people -- many of whom didn't apply or did get in-- are discussing actual data that shows odd patterns of accepting lower scoring students over higher scoring students. I get that you might feel that this data pattern somehow "lessens" the value of VT's acceptance or something, but it really doesn't--it's a good school. You don't need to be defensive. You're clearly happy with VT--just go with it.

Perfectly stated. I'm one of cry babies who's son didn't even apply.

Why not?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Transparen? Hardly. Have you even seen a VT Naviance chart lately?

There is more to admissions than stats. This has been addressed.

I'm really curious how they are able to put so much weight on supplemental essays--how they can even read them with that much care at that volume and make meaningful distinctions about how kids respond. And why? Are a few 150 word responses really that telling about how well you will succeed/make use of a technical education? It just really doesn't make sense to me.

They don't. This is just what people say to support the narrative of no yield protection and to justify VT rejecting high stats kids and accepting kids with 3.5 GPAs and 1250 SATs. As if a kid with a 4.5 and a 1590 SAT couildn't write a coherent 150 word essay.

You're dreaming if you think most kids accepted to VT have the bolded stats. You simply can't get over the fact that your kid was not accepted. Move on.

A 3.4 uw and 4.0 w gpa is pretty average at most high schools in Nova

I
VT's average is 4.4W

No. VT’s WGPA average is 3.97. GMUs is 3.8z UVA/WM WGPA is around 4.4.

Link to this information?
DP

I'm a different poster, but here's a link/info:
For 2022-2023==enrolled freshman, from SCHEV database: https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

GMU Median GPA: 3.76 %submitting test scores: 38.5% 1160-1340
JMU Median GPA: 3.88 %submitting test scores: 26.2% 1160-1310
VT Median GPA: 4.04 %submitting test scores: 56.6% 1230-1400
WM Median GPA :4.33 %submitting test scores: 70.6% 1375-1520
UVA Median GPA: 4.4 %submitting test scores: 70.9% 1400-1520

UVA& W&M are most similar, with high percentages of submitted test scores, nearly identical SAT spreads except W&M.

VT seems in the middle, with lower GPA and scores, and lower number of people submitting test scores than UVA/W&M, but higher than GMU/JMU.

Surprising to me that GMU seems almost identical to JMU in terms of stats of enrolled students--slightly higher SATs and higher percent of kids submitting scores. Slightly lower median GPA. In the past I thought of JMU as enrolling stronger students that GMU. It may be that students who start at GMU as freshman are very strong but then GMU has a higher transfer population from NOVA due to its proximity.

That seems close. UVA and W&M have pretty similar stats but are different types and sizes of schools. VT may be more selective for some majors (although I have not seen this data), but overall is in its stats are lower than UVA/W&M but above the other state schools so it is in its own tier. It also has a different "vibe" (hate that overused word but it works here). It is a more typical large state school experience. Below that, there are several schools that have pretty similar stats and acceptance rates high enough that many applying students may be accepted at their first choice of those: GMU, JMU, MWU, VCU, VMI, and CNU. There is a range of locations, sizes, and experiences in those schools. Overall, Virginia has good variety and the schools aren't "cookie cutter" as they are in some states.

A lot of people on DCUM fret about prestige or outcomes based on where their kid is accepted, but I don't really see that big of a difference in the data once you adjust for majors and where graduates tend to settle.

The SAT averages for VT/JMU/GMU are literally within 100 PRA of each other and the GPAs even closer. None of the three are remotely close to the numbers on IVA and W&M. I’m a proud Holie but let’s be honest here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Transparen? Hardly. Have you even seen a VT Naviance chart lately?

There is more to admissions than stats. This has been addressed.

I'm really curious how they are able to put so much weight on supplemental essays--how they can even read them with that much care at that volume and make meaningful distinctions about how kids respond. And why? Are a few 150 word responses really that telling about how well you will succeed/make use of a technical education? It just really doesn't make sense to me.

They don't. This is just what people say to support the narrative of no yield protection and to justify VT rejecting high stats kids and accepting kids with 3.5 GPAs and 1250 SATs. As if a kid with a 4.5 and a 1590 SAT couildn't write a coherent 150 word essay.

You're dreaming if you think most kids accepted to VT have the bolded stats. You simply can't get over the fact that your kid was not accepted. Move on.

A 3.4 uw and 4.0 w gpa is pretty average at most high schools in Nova

I
VT's average is 4.4W

No. VT’s WGPA average is 3.97. GMUs is 3.8z UVA/WM WGPA is around 4.4.

Link to this information?
DP

I'm a different poster, but here's a link/info:
For 2022-2023==enrolled freshman, from SCHEV database: https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

GMU Median GPA: 3.76 %submitting test scores: 38.5% 1160-1340
JMU Median GPA: 3.88 %submitting test scores: 26.2% 1160-1310
VT Median GPA: 4.04 %submitting test scores: 56.6% 1230-1400
WM Median GPA :4.33 %submitting test scores: 70.6% 1375-1520
UVA Median GPA: 4.4 %submitting test scores: 70.9% 1400-1520

UVA& W&M are most similar, with high percentages of submitted test scores, nearly identical SAT spreads except W&M.

VT seems in the middle, with lower GPA and scores, and lower number of people submitting test scores than UVA/W&M, but higher than GMU/JMU.

Surprising to me that GMU seems almost identical to JMU in terms of stats of enrolled students--slightly higher SATs and higher percent of kids submitting scores. Slightly lower median GPA. In the past I thought of JMU as enrolling stronger students that GMU. It may be that students who start at GMU as freshman are very strong but then GMU has a higher transfer population from NOVA due to its proximity.

That seems close. UVA and W&M have pretty similar stats but are different types and sizes of schools. VT may be more selective for some majors (although I have not seen this data), but overall is in its stats are lower than UVA/W&M but above the other state schools so it is in its own tier. It also has a different "vibe" (hate that overused word but it works here). It is a more typical large state school experience. Below that, there are several schools that have pretty similar stats and acceptance rates high enough that many applying students may be accepted at their first choice of those: GMU, JMU, MWU, VCU, VMI, and CNU. There is a range of locations, sizes, and experiences in those schools. Overall, Virginia has good variety and the schools aren't "cookie cutter" as they are in some states.

A lot of people on DCUM fret about prestige or outcomes based on where their kid is accepted, but I don't really see that big of a difference in the data once you adjust for majors and where graduates tend to settle.

The SAT averages for VT/JMU/GMU are literally within 100 PRA of each other and the GPAs even closer. None of the three are remotely close to the numbers on IVA and W&M. I’m a proud Holie but let’s be honest here.

Ok PP here-I swear I am not drunk texting…sorry for the typos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Transparen? Hardly. Have you even seen a VT Naviance chart lately?

There is more to admissions than stats. This has been addressed.

I'm really curious how they are able to put so much weight on supplemental essays--how they can even read them with that much care at that volume and make meaningful distinctions about how kids respond. And why? Are a few 150 word responses really that telling about how well you will succeed/make use of a technical education? It just really doesn't make sense to me.

They don't. This is just what people say to support the narrative of no yield protection and to justify VT rejecting high stats kids and accepting kids with 3.5 GPAs and 1250 SATs. As if a kid with a 4.5 and a 1590 SAT couildn't write a coherent 150 word essay.

You're dreaming if you think most kids accepted to VT have the bolded stats. You simply can't get over the fact that your kid was not accepted. Move on.

A 3.4 uw and 4.0 w gpa is pretty average at most high schools in Nova

I
VT's average is 4.4W

No. VT’s WGPA average is 3.97. GMUs is 3.8z UVA/WM WGPA is around 4.4.

Link to this information?
DP

I'm a different poster, but here's a link/info:
For 2022-2023==enrolled freshman, from SCHEV database: https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp

GMU Median GPA: 3.76 %submitting test scores: 38.5% 1160-1340
JMU Median GPA: 3.88 %submitting test scores: 26.2% 1160-1310
VT Median GPA: 4.04 %submitting test scores: 56.6% 1230-1400
WM Median GPA :4.33 %submitting test scores: 70.6% 1375-1520
UVA Median GPA: 4.4 %submitting test scores: 70.9% 1400-1520

UVA& W&M are most similar, with high percentages of submitted test scores, nearly identical SAT spreads except W&M.

VT seems in the middle, with lower GPA and scores, and lower number of people submitting test scores than UVA/W&M, but higher than GMU/JMU.

Surprising to me that GMU seems almost identical to JMU in terms of stats of enrolled students--slightly higher SATs and higher percent of kids submitting scores. Slightly lower median GPA. In the past I thought of JMU as enrolling stronger students that GMU. It may be that students who start at GMU as freshman are very strong but then GMU has a higher transfer population from NOVA due to its proximity.

That seems close. UVA and W&M have pretty similar stats but are different types and sizes of schools. VT may be more selective for some majors (although I have not seen this data), but overall is in its stats are lower than UVA/W&M but above the other state schools so it is in its own tier. It also has a different "vibe" (hate that overused word but it works here). It is a more typical large state school experience. Below that, there are several schools that have pretty similar stats and acceptance rates high enough that many applying students may be accepted at their first choice of those: GMU, JMU, MWU, VCU, VMI, and CNU. There is a range of locations, sizes, and experiences in those schools. Overall, Virginia has good variety and the schools aren't "cookie cutter" as they are in some states.

A lot of people on DCUM fret about prestige or outcomes based on where their kid is accepted, but I don't really see that big of a difference in the data once you adjust for majors and where graduates tend to settle.

The SAT averages for VT/JMU/GMU are literally within 100 PRA of each other and the GPAs even closer. None of the three are remotely close to the numbers on IVA and W&M. I’m a proud Holie but let’s be honest here.

Ok PP here-I swear I am not drunk texting…sorry for the typos.

I agree that VT appears to be trying to “get away from the pack” but because of its enrollment targets, is unlikely to ever be as selective as the Flagships. That’s fine. Also interest led to see what happens with JMU. Their enrollment is near 5,000 per year. If they stop increasing enrollment, they are likely to become more difficult to get into based on what I’m hearing about application increases…time will tell. My DD is a sophomore who wants to be an engineer. Obviously VT is very interesting to us.