Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The arguments for changing the window are mostly about making it so that 8 year old are winning in 8&u not 9 year olds an so on up the age ladder. That’s really all anyone is saying. As a pp pointed out, Little league even did some research on the topic and found that parents, kids, and volunteers overwhelmingly supported the concept of not having 13 year olds dominate a 12&u league so they made the change a few years back. It’s not an outrageous idea.

But all of your "solutions" have issues too. Move it to September and you'll have kids swim in the 9/10 age group who are 7 the entire season. Make it based on actual birthday and you'll have kids that age out of being on the team mid season. Change it to the date of the first meet and you'll have kids that can swim in the same age group 3 years in a row.

There is no issue with the current age cut off. It's a 24 month window (48 for the oldest age group). No one is "swimming down". Would you feel better if they changed the names of the age groups? Instead of 8U it would be "Birthday on or after June 2st 2013", "Birthday between June 1st 2013 and June 1st 2011", etc. Because that is what the age groups actually are. It's just a lot easier to say 8U, 9/10, etc.

[Anonymous]

7 year olds are obviously 8&u no matter how you slice it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s the 18 year olds who go off to college and then come back as 19 year olds that people are mostly complaining about. I personally wouldn’t see a problem with the rare case of someone who skipped a grade or something and was still 18 at the end of the summer following a year in college.

Except that doesn't happen. Even the ones who come back after a year in college are 18 when the season starts.

Everyone keeps using the excuse that it is rec swim as a reason BUT I guarantee you the majority of older kids at All Stars are not “rec swimmers”. We have kids come back, swim in one A or B meet (usually a B meet because they can’t miss college practice) just so they can swim at Divisionals and qualify for All-Stars.

It sounds like your club needs to change their rules for qualifying for Divisionals and All Stars. Most clubs require a swimmer to have competed in 2-3 A meets to even qualify, no matter their place on the ladder.

[Anonymous]

You could also call the age groups 8&u, 10&u, 12&u, 14&u, and 18&u. Easy fix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The arguments for changing the window are mostly about making it so that 8 year old are winning in 8&u not 9 year olds an so on up the age ladder. That’s really all anyone is saying. As a pp pointed out, Little league even did some research on the topic and found that parents, kids, and volunteers overwhelmingly supported the concept of not having 13 year olds dominate a 12&u league so they made the change a few years back. It’s not an outrageous idea.

But all of your "solutions" have issues too. Move it to September and you'll have kids swim in the 9/10 age group who are 7 the entire season. Make it based on actual birthday and you'll have kids that age out of being on the team mid season. Change it to the date of the first meet and you'll have kids that can swim in the same age group 3 years in a row.

There is no issue with the current age cut off. It's a 24 month window (48 for the oldest age group). No one is "swimming down". Would you feel better if they changed the names of the age groups? Instead of 8U it would be "Birthday on or after June 2st 2013", "Birthday between June 1st 2013 and June 1st 2011", etc. Because that is what the age groups actually are. It's just a lot easier to say 8U, 9/10, etc.

+1

[Anonymous]

It’s a bit amusing that there is all this angst about the June 1 cutoff and college swimmers coming back for their “bonus” summer when there was a 17 yo swimmer who went from divisionals to the US Nationals and won an event and finished 2nd in another. The swimmer had every right to swim for the summer team just like all the other kids who qualify under the rules do.

The point being that great swimmers are great swimmers. They aren’t winning because they got a perceived advantage from a lucky birthdate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I skipped a grade and turned 18 in March of my freshman year of college. Why can’t I compete as an 18 year old in an 18 and under league? Not a 19 year old, or even an old 18 year old. I was a year and a half younger than most of my classmates - grew later, drove later, etc. Let me have this one thing!

So as a college sophomore you would have wanted to spend your summer participating in summer swim with a group of high school kids and younger, none of whom were your classmates? Sure

Yes. I was the coach and taught swim lessons and lifeguarded. It was my summer job. And I swam in the meets, with people who I had been teammates with for years and were on my high school team. It’s not like I was competing against the 8 year olds. The funny thing is that even though I was a Division I swimmer, I was a distance swimmer, so I wasn’t very good at the summer league sprint races. But I wasn’t trying to rack up medals, it was something done for fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I skipped a grade and turned 18 in March of my freshman year of college. Why can’t I compete as an 18 year old in an 18 and under league? Not a 19 year old, or even an old 18 year old. I was a year and a half younger than most of my classmates - grew later, drove later, etc. Let me have this one thing!

So as a college sophomore you would have wanted to spend your summer participating in summer swim with a group of high school kids and younger, none of whom were your classmates? Sure

Yes. I was the coach and taught swim lessons and lifeguarded. It was my summer job. And I swam in the meets, with people who I had been teammates with for years and were on my high school team. It’s not like I was competing against the 8 year olds. The funny thing is that even though I was a Division I swimmer, I was a distance swimmer, so I wasn’t very good at the summer league sprint races. But I wasn’t trying to rack up medals, it was something done for fun.

So were you getting first place in your events at All Stars, or were high schoolers beating you? I posted that I think it’s pathetic because I would have won my events easily being a stroke and IM swimmer. That would have felt so empty considering I had access to NCAA training with certified strength and conditioning coaches at a university in a power conference. I could see it being a little different if you’re a distance swimmer at a smaller D1 program. There’s a wide range even within D1.

The example of a 17 year old high schooler placing at National is different. That high schooler is doing USA club swim training like everyone else in high school. That’s a more even playing field.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I skipped a grade and turned 18 in March of my freshman year of college. Why can’t I compete as an 18 year old in an 18 and under league? Not a 19 year old, or even an old 18 year old. I was a year and a half younger than most of my classmates - grew later, drove later, etc. Let me have this one thing!

So as a college sophomore you would have wanted to spend your summer participating in summer swim with a group of high school kids and younger, none of whom were your classmates? Sure

Yes. I was the coach and taught swim lessons and lifeguarded. It was my summer job. And I swam in the meets, with people who I had been teammates with for years and were on my high school team. It’s not like I was competing against the 8 year olds. The funny thing is that even though I was a Division I swimmer, I was a distance swimmer, so I wasn’t very good at the summer league sprint races. But I wasn’t trying to rack up medals, it was something done for fun.

So were you getting first place in your events at All Stars, or were high schoolers beating you? I posted that I think it’s pathetic because I would have won my events easily being a stroke and IM swimmer. That would have felt so empty considering I had access to NCAA training with certified strength and conditioning coaches at a university in a power conference. I could see it being a little different if you’re a distance swimmer at a smaller D1 program. There’s a wide range even within D1.

The example of a 17 year old high schooler placing at National is different. That high schooler is doing USA club swim training like everyone else in high school. That’s a more even playing field.

Were you confused when she said she didn’t even do that well during summer swim?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I skipped a grade and turned 18 in March of my freshman year of college. Why can’t I compete as an 18 year old in an 18 and under league? Not a 19 year old, or even an old 18 year old. I was a year and a half younger than most of my classmates - grew later, drove later, etc. Let me have this one thing!

So as a college sophomore you would have wanted to spend your summer participating in summer swim with a group of high school kids and younger, none of whom were your classmates? Sure

Yes. I was the coach and taught swim lessons and lifeguarded. It was my summer job. And I swam in the meets, with people who I had been teammates with for years and were on my high school team. It’s not like I was competing against the 8 year olds. The funny thing is that even though I was a Division I swimmer, I was a distance swimmer, so I wasn’t very good at the summer league sprint races. But I wasn’t trying to rack up medals, it was something done for fun.

So were you getting first place in your events at All Stars, or were high schoolers beating you? I posted that I think it’s pathetic because I would have won my events easily being a stroke and IM swimmer. That would have felt so empty considering I had access to NCAA training with certified strength and conditioning coaches at a university in a power conference. I could see it being a little different if you’re a distance swimmer at a smaller D1 program. There’s a wide range even within D1.

The example of a 17 year old high schooler placing at National is different. That high schooler is doing USA club swim training like everyone else in high school. That’s a more even playing field.

Genuine question from a non club swim parent, a person who is ranked 2nd in the country right behind a decorated Olympian is doing the training as the kids on my local high school team? And the training that person is doing is less than a D1 swimmer?

[Anonymous]

My kids make All Stars at the top and bottom of each age group, so I don’t have a personal stake in this. But I will say that the other kids who make Divisionals and All Stars are majority “older than the age group” kids. Which means normal non-star age-appropriate kids are not getting to swim those meets.

I would be in favor of a rule change for that reason. Swim your actual age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I skipped a grade and turned 18 in March of my freshman year of college. Why can’t I compete as an 18 year old in an 18 and under league? Not a 19 year old, or even an old 18 year old. I was a year and a half younger than most of my classmates - grew later, drove later, etc. Let me have this one thing!

So as a college sophomore you would have wanted to spend your summer participating in summer swim with a group of high school kids and younger, none of whom were your classmates? Sure

Yes. I was the coach and taught swim lessons and lifeguarded. It was my summer job. And I swam in the meets, with people who I had been teammates with for years and were on my high school team. It’s not like I was competing against the 8 year olds. The funny thing is that even though I was a Division I swimmer, I was a distance swimmer, so I wasn’t very good at the summer league sprint races. But I wasn’t trying to rack up medals, it was something done for fun.

So were you getting first place in your events at All Stars, or were high schoolers beating you? I posted that I think it’s pathetic because I would have won my events easily being a stroke and IM swimmer. That would have felt so empty considering I had access to NCAA training with certified strength and conditioning coaches at a university in a power conference. I could see it being a little different if you’re a distance swimmer at a smaller D1 program. There’s a wide range even within D1.

The example of a 17 year old high schooler placing at National is different. That high schooler is doing USA club swim training like everyone else in high school. That’s a more even playing field.

Were you confused when she said she didn’t even do that well during summer swim?

Are you always this miserable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids make All Stars at the top and bottom of each age group, so I don’t have a personal stake in this. But I will say that the other kids who make Divisionals and All Stars are majority “older than the age group” kids. Which means normal non-star age-appropriate kids are not getting to swim those meets.

I would be in favor of a rule change for that reason. Swim your actual age.

Every kid who competes is normal and age appropriate. They all meet the cut off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids make All Stars at the top and bottom of each age group, so I don’t have a personal stake in this. But I will say that the other kids who make Divisionals and All Stars are majority “older than the age group” kids. Which means normal non-star age-appropriate kids are not getting to swim those meets.

I would be in favor of a rule change for that reason. Swim your actual age.

Every kid who competes is normal and age appropriate. They all meet the cut off.

Age appropriate like the PP said. If you are swimming 11-12, you should not be 13.

They are not the age that they are swimming. They generally are a grade ahead and they are older. Parents don't want to change it with the summer birthdays because now their child would have to swim against kids their own age and would not do as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I skipped a grade and turned 18 in March of my freshman year of college. Why can’t I compete as an 18 year old in an 18 and under league? Not a 19 year old, or even an old 18 year old. I was a year and a half younger than most of my classmates - grew later, drove later, etc. Let me have this one thing!

So as a college sophomore you would have wanted to spend your summer participating in summer swim with a group of high school kids and younger, none of whom were your classmates? Sure

Yes. I was the coach and taught swim lessons and lifeguarded. It was my summer job. And I swam in the meets, with people who I had been teammates with for years and were on my high school team. It’s not like I was competing against the 8 year olds. The funny thing is that even though I was a Division I swimmer, I was a distance swimmer, so I wasn’t very good at the summer league sprint races. But I wasn’t trying to rack up medals, it was something done for fun.

So were you getting first place in your events at All Stars, or were high schoolers beating you? I posted that I think it’s pathetic because I would have won my events easily being a stroke and IM swimmer. That would have felt so empty considering I had access to NCAA training with certified strength and conditioning coaches at a university in a power conference. I could see it being a little different if you’re a distance swimmer at a smaller D1 program. There’s a wide range even within D1.

The example of a 17 year old high schooler placing at National is different. That high schooler is doing USA club swim training like everyone else in high school. That’s a more even playing field.

Genuine question from a non club swim parent, a person who is ranked 2nd in the country right behind a decorated Olympian is doing the training as the kids on my local high school team? And the training that person is doing is less than a D1 swimmer?

E G is effectively doing D1 training, as are a lot of kids who aren't as good.