Summer swim kids swimming in “wrong” age group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the people saying the summer birthdays can help with later success but hurt kids who miss the cutoff, here is something to keep in mind. The most successful area swimmer over the past decade - Torri Huske - never competed in a summer league. Her parents only had her do year round swimming at AAC and I don’t know if they ever even joined a pool.

She swam in the Colonial League briefly, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here’s evidence it changed in 2011:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=2&fname=Jeff&lname=Gerber&sid=18660&stid=2

Otherwise how could he be 9 two years in a row?


Here’s evidence the cut off wasn’t June 1 going back to at least 2003:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=2&fname=&lname=Hashemi&sid=6497&stid=1

Otherwise why would his age change in the middle of July?

I’m not the original poster here. Jumped in late. Was just trying to help the person (maybe you?) who thought there was no evidence of cutoff other than June 1st. Relax a little.

That was me. But I wasn’t the one who called you crazy. Thanks for finding the evidence. I’m still curious when they switched to that system as it seems like a bad idea (which is probably why they seem to be the only major swim league not have done it ). They definitely had the June 1 system when the league was founded

It's not evidence. Likely data error. Your last record doesn't prove what you think it proves.

According to the data that kids birthday is between 7/12 and 7/19 in 2003. Then in 2004 it's between 7/10 and 7/17 (meaning it must be 7/13, 7/14, 7/15, 7/16, or 7/17). But wait, in 2005 his birthday is between 6/25 and 7/2. That doesn't make sense. Then in 2008 he's 14 the whole year (except the meet his is marked as 13). Keep in mind you said the rule changed in 2011 so how could a kid be 14 the whole year in 2008 if his age changed in other years?

Oh, wait a little digging on the NVSL website and we see that they started using electronic scoring in 2008.

"The NVSL started using electronic software for meets with the 2008 season. So for 2008 and later we populate the website with electronic files that not only provide the basis for the meet results display but also a database of swimmer times that can be searched using the Leaders function."

Everything before that was by hand. You can find a nice document on historic times here: https://www.mynvsl.com/documents?folder_id=29405

I think we can chalk up your "evidence" to data error.

Here's a link to a 2011 parent handbook for an NVSL team referencing adding up in the middle of the season: http://ast22003.org/redtide/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/parents_handbook_2011.pdf

First, very cool document. And it was interesting that they say when you age up in the middle of the season - you have a clean slate for B meets.

So, yes, there used to be age up in NVSL. No huge conspiracy people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids started NVSL just before the rule change, so I remember both. Found this in my email archives from spring 2012 from our Team rep at the time (obviously in favor of the change.. but gives some context on what was required for it to pass). Although this implies it was in place for quite a while - not sure how accurate the 30 years is.

----------------------------
Last night the NVSL held their annual rules meeting. 70 clubs were represented at the meeting. Most of the rule changes were little more than NVSL admin housekeeping items, but there were votes on two items very important to our swimmers - the age rule changed and 8&u butterfly was added to the dual meets.

Effective this season, swimmers will compete in the age group for their age on June 1. If one of our swimmers have a birthday between June 1 and the Divisional Championships on July 28, she/he won't have to change age groups. That swimmer will finish the season in the same age group in which she/he began the season.

Many clubs have been trying to change this rule for over 30 years. Rule changes need approval of 2/3s of the Team Reps present and voting. This rule change needed 46 votes for approval and it passed 47-21.

NVSL has always been one of the very few summer swim leagues in the nation that had the immediate age rule. NVSL Dive Teams have used the June 1 cut-off date for years. The the swimmers will be competing under the same rule as the divers.

The other major change is that 25 m/yd fly has been added to the dual meet program for 8&u boys and girls.
------------------------------------

Also, very cool.

I wonder if NVSL could be persuaded to add IM to dual meets like other leagues do. THAT would be awesome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids started NVSL just before the rule change, so I remember both. Found this in my email archives from spring 2012 from our Team rep at the time (obviously in favor of the change.. but gives some context on what was required for it to pass). Although this implies it was in place for quite a while - not sure how accurate the 30 years is.

----------------------------
Last night the NVSL held their annual rules meeting. 70 clubs were represented at the meeting. Most of the rule changes were little more than NVSL admin housekeeping items, but there were votes on two items very important to our swimmers - the age rule changed and 8&u butterfly was added to the dual meets.

Effective this season, swimmers will compete in the age group for their age on June 1. If one of our swimmers have a birthday between June 1 and the Divisional Championships on July 28, she/he won't have to change age groups. That swimmer will finish the season in the same age group in which she/he began the season.

Many clubs have been trying to change this rule for over 30 years. Rule changes need approval of 2/3s of the Team Reps present and voting. This rule change needed 46 votes for approval and it passed 47-21.

NVSL has always been one of the very few summer swim leagues in the nation that had the immediate age rule. NVSL Dive Teams have used the June 1 cut-off date for years. The the swimmers will be competing under the same rule as the divers.

The other major change is that 25 m/yd fly has been added to the dual meet program for 8&u boys and girls.
------------------------------------

Also, very cool.

I wonder if NVSL could be persuaded to add IM to dual meets like other leagues do. THAT would be awesome.

that would be cool. I know my son would like it. One upside would be that it would allow more swimmers to go to A meets. Downside is I think it would probably extend meet times by probably half an hour or so. Also, I would guess some of the lower division teams may struggle to fill all the slots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids started NVSL just before the rule change, so I remember both. Found this in my email archives from spring 2012 from our Team rep at the time (obviously in favor of the change.. but gives some context on what was required for it to pass). Although this implies it was in place for quite a while - not sure how accurate the 30 years is.

----------------------------
Last night the NVSL held their annual rules meeting. 70 clubs were represented at the meeting. Most of the rule changes were little more than NVSL admin housekeeping items, but there were votes on two items very important to our swimmers - the age rule changed and 8&u butterfly was added to the dual meets.

Effective this season, swimmers will compete in the age group for their age on June 1. If one of our swimmers have a birthday between June 1 and the Divisional Championships on July 28, she/he won't have to change age groups. That swimmer will finish the season in the same age group in which she/he began the season.

Many clubs have been trying to change this rule for over 30 years. Rule changes need approval of 2/3s of the Team Reps present and voting. This rule change needed 46 votes for approval and it passed 47-21.

NVSL has always been one of the very few summer swim leagues in the nation that had the immediate age rule. NVSL Dive Teams have used the June 1 cut-off date for years. The the swimmers will be competing under the same rule as the divers.

The other major change is that 25 m/yd fly has been added to the dual meet program for 8&u boys and girls.
------------------------------------

Also, very cool.

I wonder if NVSL could be persuaded to add IM to dual meets like other leagues do. THAT would be awesome.

that would be cool. I know my son would like it. One upside would be that it would allow more swimmers to go to A meets. Downside is I think it would probably extend meet times by probably half an hour or so. Also, I would guess some of the lower division teams may struggle to fill all the slots.

Half an hour is not that much. Our meets were over by 11 am, at least 4 out of the 5. We had one that went till 12:30 but the team we were swimming was slow in running the meet.

It also makes more sense. IMs are offered as an event at divisionals but except for a few IM invitationals and B meets (that the weather mess with) there are very limited opportunities to get a time for IMs. And if you want to go to all stars - swim IM, that is the one event that has the most scratches every year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids started NVSL just before the rule change, so I remember both. Found this in my email archives from spring 2012 from our Team rep at the time (obviously in favor of the change.. but gives some context on what was required for it to pass). Although this implies it was in place for quite a while - not sure how accurate the 30 years is.

----------------------------
Last night the NVSL held their annual rules meeting. 70 clubs were represented at the meeting. Most of the rule changes were little more than NVSL admin housekeeping items, but there were votes on two items very important to our swimmers - the age rule changed and 8&u butterfly was added to the dual meets.

Effective this season, swimmers will compete in the age group for their age on June 1. If one of our swimmers have a birthday between June 1 and the Divisional Championships on July 28, she/he won't have to change age groups. That swimmer will finish the season in the same age group in which she/he began the season.

Many clubs have been trying to change this rule for over 30 years. Rule changes need approval of 2/3s of the Team Reps present and voting. This rule change needed 46 votes for approval and it passed 47-21.

NVSL has always been one of the very few summer swim leagues in the nation that had the immediate age rule. NVSL Dive Teams have used the June 1 cut-off date for years. The the swimmers will be competing under the same rule as the divers.

The other major change is that 25 m/yd fly has been added to the dual meet program for 8&u boys and girls.
------------------------------------

Also, very cool.

I wonder if NVSL could be persuaded to add IM to dual meets like other leagues do. THAT would be awesome.

that would be cool. I know my son would like it. One upside would be that it would allow more swimmers to go to A meets. Downside is I think it would probably extend meet times by probably half an hour or so. Also, I would guess some of the lower division teams may struggle to fill all the slots.

Half an hour is not that much. Our meets were over by 11 am, at least 4 out of the 5. We had one that went till 12:30 but the team we were swimming was slow in running the meet.

It also makes more sense. IMs are offered as an event at divisionals but except for a few IM invitationals and B meets (that the weather mess with) there are very limited opportunities to get a time for IMs. And if you want to go to all stars - swim IM, that is the one event that has the most scratches every year.

It looks like MCSL does it starting in the 11-12 age group, which I suppose means it doesn't extend meet times too much. But they also allow swimmers to do 3 events I think, which would solve the problem of lower division teams not having enough swimmers but lead to fewer swimmers going to A meets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids started NVSL just before the rule change, so I remember both. Found this in my email archives from spring 2012 from our Team rep at the time (obviously in favor of the change.. but gives some context on what was required for it to pass). Although this implies it was in place for quite a while - not sure how accurate the 30 years is.

----------------------------
Last night the NVSL held their annual rules meeting. 70 clubs were represented at the meeting. Most of the rule changes were little more than NVSL admin housekeeping items, but there were votes on two items very important to our swimmers - the age rule changed and 8&u butterfly was added to the dual meets.

Effective this season, swimmers will compete in the age group for their age on June 1. If one of our swimmers have a birthday between June 1 and the Divisional Championships on July 28, she/he won't have to change age groups. That swimmer will finish the season in the same age group in which she/he began the season.

Many clubs have been trying to change this rule for over 30 years. Rule changes need approval of 2/3s of the Team Reps present and voting. This rule change needed 46 votes for approval and it passed 47-21.

NVSL has always been one of the very few summer swim leagues in the nation that had the immediate age rule. NVSL Dive Teams have used the June 1 cut-off date for years. The the swimmers will be competing under the same rule as the divers.

The other major change is that 25 m/yd fly has been added to the dual meet program for 8&u boys and girls.
------------------------------------

Also, very cool.

I wonder if NVSL could be persuaded to add IM to dual meets like other leagues do. THAT would be awesome.

that would be cool. I know my son would like it. One upside would be that it would allow more swimmers to go to A meets. Downside is I think it would probably extend meet times by probably half an hour or so. Also, I would guess some of the lower division teams may struggle to fill all the slots.

Half an hour is not that much. Our meets were over by 11 am, at least 4 out of the 5. We had one that went till 12:30 but the team we were swimming was slow in running the meet.

It also makes more sense. IMs are offered as an event at divisionals but except for a few IM invitationals and B meets (that the weather mess with) there are very limited opportunities to get a time for IMs. And if you want to go to all stars - swim IM, that is the one event that has the most scratches every year.

It looks like MCSL does it starting in the 11-12 age group, which I suppose means it doesn't extend meet times too much. But they also allow swimmers to do 3 events I think, which would solve the problem of lower division teams not having enough swimmers but lead to fewer swimmers going to A meets.

Yes, in MCSL there is 12&U IM, 13-14 IM, and 15-18 IM at A meets. It adds 6 total heats and even the 12 U kids that do the IM in the A meets are generally a minute and a half or less, so it’s not adding a ton of time to the meets, I would say 15 minutes at the absolute most. In MCSL you can actually do 4 individual events, 3 strokes and the IM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, in MCSL there is 12&U IM, 13-14 IM, and 15-18 IM at A meets. It adds 6 total heats and even the 12 U kids that do the IM in the A meets are generally a minute and a half or less, so it’s not adding a ton of time to the meets, I would say 15 minutes at the absolute most. In MCSL you can actually do 4 individual events, 3 strokes and the IM.

i was going to say just that. kids can do 4 events in mcsl.

[Anonymous]

So two individual events + IM + max two relays

NVSL could do that.


Colonial league also has IMs

[Anonymous]

So the 2011-2012 rule change (against swimmers swimming their actual age) passed by a single vote after a 30-year-long effort by the wrong age cabal to recruit team reps sympathetic to their cause. Sounds eerily familiar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the people saying the summer birthdays can help with later success but hurt kids who miss the cutoff, here is something to keep in mind. The most successful area swimmer over the past decade - Torri Huske - never competed in a summer league. Her parents only had her do year round swimming at AAC and I don’t know if they ever even joined a pool.

She swam in the Colonial League briefly, actually.

For KOC I’m guessing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the 2011-2012 rule change (against swimmers swimming their actual age) passed by a single vote after a 30-year-long effort by the wrong age cabal to recruit team reps sympathetic to their cause. Sounds eerily familiar.

And Trump won the last presidential election, too.

[Anonymous]

This is what you choose to spend time worrying about? Obviously is too confusing to switch kids into different classes on their birthdays (if fall during summer).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the people saying the summer birthdays can help with later success but hurt kids who miss the cutoff, here is something to keep in mind. The most successful area swimmer over the past decade - Torri Huske - never competed in a summer league. Her parents only had her do year round swimming at AAC and I don’t know if they ever even joined a pool.

She swam in the Colonial League briefly, actually.

For KOC I’m guessing?

Looks like Chinqapuin for one year in 2016 i think. When she was already 13

[Anonymous]

Andrew Seliskar swam NVSL until he was 18.