Article on delta specifically in children

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe they're vaccinating children. Absolutely bonkers here. The world has gone mad.

In other parts of the world, where the vaccine hasn't been so politicized (such as Germany and the UK), health agencies are coming to the conclusion that for younger kids, the vaccine doesn't seem necessary. I don't have faith that American health agencies will be able to make an objective determination, in the current political climate.

I've got 2 kids under the age of 10, and I haven't seen anything to convince me that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the potential risks. Vaccination of kids would mostly be of benefit to adults who won't vaccinate themselves. Why should I make my kids get vaccinates to help people like that?

I also have two under 10, whom I will probably end up vaccinating, but I completely agree with this and am watching the European discourse closely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my take-aways is that the cases examined are so rare (even with delta) as to prevent statistically meaningful results. It seems like the same thing with the vaccines -- there are so few kids that get covid that it becomes difficult to statistically compare the treatment and control groups.

Yes, I will believe delta is as bad as the headlines are screaming if they get enough pediatric cases in the control group to move kid vaccine approvals back to fall.

Otherwise it can’t be that bad.

This is kind of where I landed too. Either it’s bad enough to give EUA to the vaccine…or it’s not. And if it is I’m definitely getting DD the vaccine. Older child already vaccinated, as well as both parents and most extended family except crazy Fox News father.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of my take-aways is that the cases examined are so rare (even with delta) as to prevent statistically meaningful results. It seems like the same thing with the vaccines -- there are so few kids that get covid that it becomes difficult to statistically compare the treatment and control groups.

Yes, I will believe delta is as bad as the headlines are screaming if they get enough pediatric cases in the control group to move kid vaccine approvals back to fall.

Otherwise it can’t be that bad.

This is kind of where I landed too. Either it’s bad enough to give EUA to the vaccine…or it’s not. And if it is I’m definitely getting DD the vaccine. Older child already vaccinated, as well as both parents and most extended family except crazy Fox News father.

This point is a really good one. Part of the reason the pediatric clinical trials are taking so long is that they're not getting enough positive cases (in both groups)--although I would bet there are cases in parts of the country where parents are also less likely to enroll their kids in a study. Oh, the irony.

[Anonymous]

forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/07/29/hospitals-in-southern-us-reporting-record-numbers-of-children-hospitalized-amid-delta-surge-though-deaths-still-extremely-rare/?sh=7ef6150b5f1e

From July 29th, in reference to increases in pedatric hospitalizations of children reported in several states:

"The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) releases a weekly report on child cases and hospitalizations, but not all states regularly submit data. Its most recent report on July 22 calculated children made up between 1.3% and 3.6% of total reported hospitalizations, 0.1% and 1.9% of all child Covid-19 cases resulted in hospitalization. Overall, the risk of death and hospitalization among children who contract Covid-19 remains extremely low. Just over 520 children have died from Covid-19 since the start of the pandemic (0.08% of the U.S.’s 612,000 total deaths) and only around 0.01% recorded cases result in death."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe they're vaccinating children. Absolutely bonkers here. The world has gone mad.

In other parts of the world, where the vaccine hasn't been so politicized (such as Germany and the UK), health agencies are coming to the conclusion that for younger kids, the vaccine doesn't seem necessary. I don't have faith that American health agencies will be able to make an objective determination, in the current political climate.

I've got 2 kids under the age of 10, and I haven't seen anything to convince me that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the potential risks. Vaccination of kids would mostly be of benefit to adults who won't vaccinate themselves. Why should I make my kids get vaccinates to help people like that?

I agree with you.

I have following the discourse closely and have family in other parts of the world.

I have no plans to get my 8 year old vaccinated if/when the shot gets EUA. My 12 year old is eligible for Pfizer, but I am not even convinced that is worth it right now.

I’m obviously keeping a close eye on numbers and would be willing to reconsider for my 12 year old if numbers increase in kids (hopefully not!).

DH and I, plus grandparents, are all fully vaxxed and kids will be going back to in person school in the fall as long as MCPS reopens.

I think there is no ‘wrong’ choice here. Parents of kids under age 18 can go either way and it is a valid choice based on ones own risk tolerance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe they're vaccinating children. Absolutely bonkers here. The world has gone mad.

In other parts of the world, where the vaccine hasn't been so politicized (such as Germany and the UK), health agencies are coming to the conclusion that for younger kids, the vaccine doesn't seem necessary. I don't have faith that American health agencies will be able to make an objective determination, in the current political climate.

I've got 2 kids under the age of 10, and I haven't seen anything to convince me that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the potential risks. Vaccination of kids would mostly be of benefit to adults who won't vaccinate themselves. Why should I make my kids get vaccinates to help people like that?

I agree with you.

I have following the discourse closely and have family in other parts of the world.

I have no plans to get my 8 year old vaccinated if/when the shot gets EUA. My 12 year old is eligible for Pfizer, but I am not even convinced that is worth it right now.

I’m obviously keeping a close eye on numbers and would be willing to reconsider for my 12 year old if numbers increase in kids (hopefully not!).

DH and I, plus grandparents, are all fully vaxxed and kids will be going back to in person school in the fall as long as MCPS reopens.

I think there is no ‘wrong’ choice here. Parents of kids under age 18 can go either way and it is a valid choice based on ones own risk tolerance.

Why do they believe it's not necessary? Where I live, adults aren't getting vaccinated, so I am going to have to get my son vaccinated I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe they're vaccinating children. Absolutely bonkers here. The world has gone mad.

In other parts of the world, where the vaccine hasn't been so politicized (such as Germany and the UK), health agencies are coming to the conclusion that for younger kids, the vaccine doesn't seem necessary. I don't have faith that American health agencies will be able to make an objective determination, in the current political climate.

I've got 2 kids under the age of 10, and I haven't seen anything to convince me that the benefits of vaccination outweigh the potential risks. Vaccination of kids would mostly be of benefit to adults who won't vaccinate themselves. Why should I make my kids get vaccinates to help people like that?

I agree with you.

I have following the discourse closely and have family in other parts of the world.

I have no plans to get my 8 year old vaccinated if/when the shot gets EUA. My 12 year old is eligible for Pfizer, but I am not even convinced that is worth it right now.

I’m obviously keeping a close eye on numbers and would be willing to reconsider for my 12 year old if numbers increase in kids (hopefully not!).

DH and I, plus grandparents, are all fully vaxxed and kids will be going back to in person school in the fall as long as MCPS reopens.

I think there is no ‘wrong’ choice here. Parents of kids under age 18 can go either way and it is a valid choice based on ones own risk tolerance.

Why do they believe it's not necessary? Where I live, adults aren't getting vaccinated, so I am going to have to get my son vaccinated I think.

I guess it is somewhat dependent on where you live? We are in Montgomery County and over 80% of adults are vaccinated. Plus, numbers are still quite low.

Could be a different calculation if you live elsewhere.

Though, I definitely would not get my kid vaccinated simply to make up for adults who choose not to. We’re not aiming for herd immunity anymore anyway, so what is the reason for vaccinating kids who are not high risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/07/29/hospitals-in-southern-us-reporting-record-numbers-of-children-hospitalized-amid-delta-surge-though-deaths-still-extremely-rare/?sh=7ef6150b5f1e

From July 29th, in reference to increases in pedatric hospitalizations of children reported in several states:

"The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) releases a weekly report on child cases and hospitalizations, but not all states regularly submit data. Its most recent report on July 22 calculated children made up between 1.3% and 3.6% of total reported hospitalizations, 0.1% and 1.9% of all child Covid-19 cases resulted in hospitalization. Overall, the risk of death and hospitalization among children who contract Covid-19 remains extremely low. Just over 520 children have died from Covid-19 since the start of the pandemic (0.08% of the U.S.’s 612,000 total deaths) and only around 0.01% recorded cases result in death."

- Only 23 US states + NYC report their hospitalization numbers for this, and some of the currently hardest hit, in particular, don't report (Florida, Louisiana, Alabama, Arkansas, Missouri, Texas for example).
- All figures quoted are cumulative from May 2020 until July 2021, so they don't give any sense of more recent changes related to delta.
- The more recent report is here: https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AAP%20and%20CHA%20-%20Children%20and%20COVID-19%20State%20Data%20Report%207.29%20FINAL.pdf

[Anonymous]

Thanks for posting this OP.

It's so easy to get caught up in the race to be most cautious among DC area parents (we would never do daycare, oh yeah well we're avoiding all air travel, oh yeah well we wear masks outdoors always, etc.), that sometimes I lose touch with the facts. Or at least the facts we know so far. This whole thing requires some humility and acknowledging there are no perfect decisions, but we can at least try to be as informed as possible - and this is good level-headed information.

I don't envy parents of older children making the vaccine decision. As the parent of a very young child, I too will be looking closely at both the European recommendations and whether the US grants an EUA. I was first in line to be vaccinated and I am open to vaccinating my child, but it pains me to think I may have to vaccinate her not because she's at risk, but because not enough adults would step up and do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe they're vaccinating children. Absolutely bonkers here. The world has gone mad.

+1 million

Sure. skip the polio and measles vaccines too while you’re at it. Just as long as your kid doesn’t get anywhere near a public school.

[Anonymous]

https://time.com/6085883/school-delta-covid/

From Aug.2:

"On the whole, experts seem to agree it’s time to get kids back into their classrooms. Remote learning set many children—especially students of color—back academically, cut them off from essential social services like free or reduced-cost meals, and took a major toll on their mental health.
...
The Delta variant is more transmissible than the version of SARS-CoV-2 (the virus that causes COVID-19) that circulated for much of the previous 16 months or so, which means that it could spread faster in schools, just like it does anywhere else. Though it doesn’t seem to cause more severe illness (in either children or adults)
....
Delta’s emergence is a reminder that schools will need to stay flexible as the virus continues to circulate.
...
The best preventative method, of course, is mass vaccination.
...
O’Leary says widespread community vaccination is the best way to limit these risks. “What we’ve seen throughout the pandemic, including now with this Delta variant, is that [the number of] cases in kids basically reflect what’s going on in the surrounding community,” he says. “The most important thing to help schools be successful this year is get everyone to get vaccinated, down to age 12.”
...
"So far, schools haven’t been a major driver of COVID-19 outbreaks. Instead, they’re more likely to reflect the level of transmission that’s already happening in a given community....That said, Milstone notes schools “tend to be more conservative” and take more precautions to limit viral spread compared to other institutions. In fact, schools probably aren’t more dangerous than other activities many kids are already doing, he says. “I would say a kid who’s masked in school is less likely to bring [COVID-19] home from school than they are from bringing it home from their Sunday school group or … a birthday party with 10 other kids where they’re probably not masked.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for posting this OP.

It's so easy to get caught up in the race to be most cautious among DC area parents (we would never do daycare, oh yeah well we're avoiding all air travel, oh yeah well we wear masks outdoors always, etc.), that sometimes I lose touch with the facts. Or at least the facts we know so far. This whole thing requires some humility and acknowledging there are no perfect decisions, but we can at least try to be as informed as possible - and this is good level-headed information.

I don't envy parents of older children making the vaccine decision. As the parent of a very young child, I too will be looking closely at both the European recommendations and whether the US grants an EUA. I was first in line to be vaccinated and I am open to vaccinating my child, but it pains me to think I may have to vaccinate her not because she's at risk, but because not enough adults would step up and do it.

The bolded is so important. In our neck of the woods, being the most cautious correlates directly with a crap-ton of moral superiority and judgment of those who aren’t the most cautious, and I’m sick of that dynamic. Not going above and beyond health regulations doesn’t make me a COVID-denier, and frankly, there’s something to be said for not contributing to the shaming and divisiveness around this issue.

I actually think vaccinating older kids (12+) is more straightforward than younger ones, because the data suggest they’re more at risk from COVID. We’ll vaccinate our kids (all three younger than 10) when it’s available, but I also haven’t seen *any* data suggesting COVID presents a substantial risk to them, even unvaccinated. We can’t keep kids home forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/07/29/hospitals-in-southern-us-reporting-record-numbers-of-children-hospitalized-amid-delta-surge-though-deaths-still-extremely-rare/?sh=7ef6150b5f1e

From July 29th, in reference to increases in pedatric hospitalizations of children reported in several states:

"The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) releases a weekly report on child cases and hospitalizations, but not all states regularly submit data. Its most recent report on July 22 calculated children made up between 1.3% and 3.6% of total reported hospitalizations, 0.1% and 1.9% of all child Covid-19 cases resulted in hospitalization. Overall, the risk of death and hospitalization among children who contract Covid-19 remains extremely low. Just over 520 children have died from Covid-19 since the start of the pandemic (0.08% of the U.S.’s 612,000 total deaths) and only around 0.01% recorded cases result in death."

- Only 23 US states + NYC report their hospitalization numbers for this, and some of the currently hardest hit, in particular, don't report (Florida, Louisiana, Alabama, Arkansas, Missouri, Texas for example).
- All figures quoted are cumulative from May 2020 until July 2021, so they don't give any sense of more recent changes related to delta.
- The more recent report is here: https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AAP%20and%20CHA%20-%20Children%20and%20COVID-19%20State%20Data%20Report%207.29%20FINAL.pdf

My understanding was that the U.S. was three weeks into delta (that was Gottlieb, but I'd have to go find the link). If that's correct, wouldn't we be seeing something in this data? Potentially the three weeks isn't correct.

Also, that data doesn't suggest anything like a major increase in child hospitalizations from covid; I think that's relevant based on the articles that the Forbes article discusses regarding regional increases in child hospitalization totals from several areas. I'm trying to figure out how they jibe with each other. It might just be that the national average hides regional changes.

If you've got a better understanding of what that data shows I'd love to hear it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/07/29/hospitals-in-southern-us-reporting-record-numbers-of-children-hospitalized-amid-delta-surge-though-deaths-still-extremely-rare/?sh=7ef6150b5f1e

From July 29th, in reference to increases in pedatric hospitalizations of children reported in several states:

"The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) releases a weekly report on child cases and hospitalizations, but not all states regularly submit data. Its most recent report on July 22 calculated children made up between 1.3% and 3.6% of total reported hospitalizations, 0.1% and 1.9% of all child Covid-19 cases resulted in hospitalization. Overall, the risk of death and hospitalization among children who contract Covid-19 remains extremely low. Just over 520 children have died from Covid-19 since the start of the pandemic (0.08% of the U.S.’s 612,000 total deaths) and only around 0.01% recorded cases result in death."

- Only 23 US states + NYC report their hospitalization numbers for this, and some of the currently hardest hit, in particular, don't report (Florida, Louisiana, Alabama, Arkansas, Missouri, Texas for example).
- All figures quoted are cumulative from May 2020 until July 2021, so they don't give any sense of more recent changes related to delta.
- The more recent report is here: https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AAP%20and%20CHA%20-%20Children%20and%20COVID-19%20State%20Data%20Report%207.29%20FINAL.pdf

My understanding was that the U.S. was three weeks into delta (that was Gottlieb, but I'd have to go find the link). If that's correct, wouldn't we be seeing something in this data? Potentially the three weeks isn't correct.

Also, that data doesn't suggest anything like a major increase in child hospitalizations from covid; I think that's relevant based on the articles that the Forbes article discusses regarding regional increases in child hospitalization totals from several areas. I'm trying to figure out how they jibe with each other. It might just be that the national average hides regional changes.

If you've got a better understanding of what that data shows I'd love to hear it.

They don't jibe now, because that AAP report doesn't include the hospitalization data for the hardest hit states discussed in the Forbes article (I wrote this above).
When (/if) the states that do report pediatric hospitalizations into that AAP report start seeing sharp increases, the AAP report might not clearly show that, because in the reports I've read, they've focused on describing cumulative data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/07/29/hospitals-in-southern-us-reporting-record-numbers-of-children-hospitalized-amid-delta-surge-though-deaths-still-extremely-rare/?sh=7ef6150b5f1e

From July 29th, in reference to increases in pedatric hospitalizations of children reported in several states:

"The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) releases a weekly report on child cases and hospitalizations, but not all states regularly submit data. Its most recent report on July 22 calculated children made up between 1.3% and 3.6% of total reported hospitalizations, 0.1% and 1.9% of all child Covid-19 cases resulted in hospitalization. Overall, the risk of death and hospitalization among children who contract Covid-19 remains extremely low. Just over 520 children have died from Covid-19 since the start of the pandemic (0.08% of the U.S.’s 612,000 total deaths) and only around 0.01% recorded cases result in death."

- Only 23 US states + NYC report their hospitalization numbers for this, and some of the currently hardest hit, in particular, don't report (Florida, Louisiana, Alabama, Arkansas, Missouri, Texas for example).
- All figures quoted are cumulative from May 2020 until July 2021, so they don't give any sense of more recent changes related to delta.
- The more recent report is here: https://downloads.aap.org/AAP/PDF/AAP%20and%20CHA%20-%20Children%20and%20COVID-19%20State%20Data%20Report%207.29%20FINAL.pdf

My understanding was that the U.S. was three weeks into delta (that was Gottlieb, but I'd have to go find the link). If that's correct, wouldn't we be seeing something in this data? Potentially the three weeks isn't correct.

Also, that data doesn't suggest anything like a major increase in child hospitalizations from covid; I think that's relevant based on the articles that the Forbes article discusses regarding regional increases in child hospitalization totals from several areas. I'm trying to figure out how they jibe with each other. It might just be that the national average hides regional changes.

If you've got a better understanding of what that data shows I'd love to hear it.

They don't jibe now, because that AAP report doesn't include the hospitalization data for the hardest hit states discussed in the Forbes article (I wrote this above).
When (/if) the states that do report pediatric hospitalizations into that AAP report start seeing sharp increases, the AAP report might not clearly show that, because in the reports I've read, they've focused on describing cumulative data.

Thank you. I didn't understand what you were saying. This helps.