Should coaches complain if refs make a mistake?

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legit question for RSD. After a game do you have more parents and or coaches approach you to compliment or complain? and whats the approximate divide?

About 95% compliments. When I started, I didn't realize people would be so appreciative.

They usually aren't substantive compliments -- it'd be a little unusual for people to come and say, "Wow, that offside call was awesome!" -- just a quick thank-you.

Most complaints are brief and in-game. That's fine. I did that as a parent and coach, too, and people aren't going to agree with every call. A lot of people who complain about a call or two during the heat of the moment in a game come up and say thanks afterwards.

I got no complaints after games this weekend, though I had to throw out two coaches early in a game. The only complaint I remember from The Virginian was when a parent muttered under his breath, "still wasn't a penalty." (That was actually an easy call. An offside call later in the game was much closer -- I hate being the only ref at U-11 and U-12.) In Vienna's House league, I had to deal with a parent who was furious because I wouldn't let him stand right behind a goal and coach his kid during a game.

The WAGS Tournament -- well, let's not talk about that. A coach and some parents from Ohio were upset that I wouldn't let their U-10 girls maim the players from Georgia, and a Baltimore coach was trying to intimidate me throughout a different game. (I was horrible in that game, but not to his team's detriment by any means. The opposing coach told his players after the game that refs make a lot of mistakes, and I don't blame him.) I think those folks view refs as mere impediments to their U-10s' well-deserved places on the national team for the 2027 World Cup.

Interesting ... Thanks for the insight. My u12 is a GK and I have taught him Win, loser draw. After every game he makes sure to thank the referee and his coaches as well as tell the opposing coach and GK good game as well.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legit question for RSD. After a game do you have more parents and or coaches approach you to compliment or complain? and whats the approximate divide?

About 95% compliments. When I started, I didn't realize people would be so appreciative.

They usually aren't substantive compliments -- it'd be a little unusual for people to come and say, "Wow, that offside call was awesome!" -- just a quick thank-you.

Most complaints are brief and in-game. That's fine. I did that as a parent and coach, too, and people aren't going to agree with every call. A lot of people who complain about a call or two during the heat of the moment in a game come up and say thanks afterwards.

I got no complaints after games this weekend, though I had to throw out two coaches early in a game. The only complaint I remember from The Virginian was when a parent muttered under his breath, "still wasn't a penalty." (That was actually an easy call. An offside call later in the game was much closer -- I hate being the only ref at U-11 and U-12.) In Vienna's House league, I had to deal with a parent who was furious because I wouldn't let him stand right behind a goal and coach his kid during a game.

The WAGS Tournament -- well, let's not talk about that. A coach and some parents from Ohio were upset that I wouldn't let their U-10 girls maim the players from Georgia, and a Baltimore coach was trying to intimidate me throughout a different game. (I was horrible in that game, but not to his team's detriment by any means. The opposing coach told his players after the game that refs make a lot of mistakes, and I don't blame him.) I think those folks view refs as mere impediments to their U-10s' well-deserved places on the national team for the 2027 World Cup.

Two coaches were thrown out of U10 games this weekend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the Father's Day tournament in Fairfax, a goalie picked up the ball then put it down to kick it, and the ref told him he couldn't do that and had him pick it up again. Should the coach complain to the tournament about this ref?

So based on your post in the other thread, this was a U10 game, which means they play with build out lines. Build out lines rules are not all clear. I am a referee and I haven't done a game with build out lines for a bit, in general, when a GK has possession of the ball, the other team has to retreat beyond the build out line. The opponent came press the ball once the GK plays the ball. Build out line rules doesn't talk about what "playing the ball" means. Does it mean once the GK puts it on the ground? I don't know. If a referee was asking the GK to throw it or roll it, I think that's OK. If the GK placed it on the ground and quickly passed it to a teammate, I think that's OK too, but remember drop kicks are not allowed either, so the GK can't drop it and kick it on the bounce. So as much as I hate to defend RSD if he was the culprit, I can see where requesting the GK to throw or roll the ball is OK. Again, I'm sure you can find plenty of referees that 100% agree with you.

So whats the theory behind no punts or drop kicks?

Well there is no heading U11 and Under so no punting or drop kicks reduces the number of times the ball is in the air and probably the biggest reason is that no punting forces the younger kids to have to play shorter balls and thus "build out from the back" instead of long ball to the forward.

Yeah. There's no heading so they need to play the ball on the ground. That's how ds's coach explained it to them.

Op, was this a young ref?

[Anonymous]

As long as the ref is consistent I am fine with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ref should not be telling players how to play. Only enforce the rule and explain infractions.

If the GK put the ball on ground then the build out line rule is that the ball is in play. Picking it back up doesn’t change that.

The rule on keeper possession is different than the rule on in play for build out rule.

Correct if he puts it down then picks it back up thats technically the 2nd touch and the opposing team is free to break the build out line.

Yes I am correct but read it again: when GK possesses from from field in play the ball is in play for buildout rule purpose when GK releases ball: throws, rolls, dribbles, sets it down, runs with it in his hands etc. 2nd touch has nothing to do with it. On a goal kick the GK can place the ball and then their first touch of ball (causing movement) it is in play. If GK kicks it a 2nd time the. 2 touch free kick rule (Law for the fellow refs) applies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ref should not be telling players how to play. Only enforce the rule and explain infractions.

If the GK put the ball on ground then the build out line rule is that the ball is in play. Picking it back up doesn’t change that.

The rule on keeper possession is different than the rule on in play for build out rule.

Correct if he puts it down then picks it back up thats technically the 2nd touch and the opposing team is free to break the build out line.

Yes I am correct but read it again: when GK possesses from from field in play the ball is in play for buildout rule purpose when GK releases ball: throws, rolls, dribbles, sets it down, runs with it in his hands etc. 2nd touch has nothing to do with it. On a goal kick the GK can place the ball and then their first touch of ball (causing movement) it is in play. If GK kicks it a 2nd time the. 2 touch free kick rule (Law for the fellow refs) applies.

Correct on a goal kick however on a gk save technically its a simple two touch not 2 player so as its written if a gk simply bounces and catches it the build out wait is over. Its a horrible rule in general but its written even worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ref should not be telling players how to play. Only enforce the rule and explain infractions.

If the GK put the ball on ground then the build out line rule is that the ball is in play. Picking it back up doesn’t change that.

The rule on keeper possession is different than the rule on in play for build out rule.

Correct if he puts it down then picks it back up thats technically the 2nd touch and the opposing team is free to break the build out line.

Yes I am correct but read it again: when GK possesses from from field in play the ball is in play for buildout rule purpose when GK releases ball: throws, rolls, dribbles, sets it down, runs with it in his hands etc. 2nd touch has nothing to do with it. On a goal kick the GK can place the ball and then their first touch of ball (causing movement) it is in play. If GK kicks it a 2nd time the. 2 touch free kick rule (Law for the fellow refs) applies.

Correct on a goal kick however on a gk save technically its a simple two touch not 2 player so as its written if a gk simply bounces and catches it the build out wait is over. Its a horrible rule in general but its written even worse.

Can you use punctuation? Your post is a mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ref should not be telling players how to play. Only enforce the rule and explain infractions.

If the GK put the ball on ground then the build out line rule is that the ball is in play. Picking it back up doesn’t change that.

The rule on keeper possession is different than the rule on in play for build out rule.

Correct if he puts it down then picks it back up thats technically the 2nd touch and the opposing team is free to break the build out line.

Yes I am correct but read it again: when GK possesses from from field in play the ball is in play for buildout rule purpose when GK releases ball: throws, rolls, dribbles, sets it down, runs with it in his hands etc. 2nd touch has nothing to do with it. On a goal kick the GK can place the ball and then their first touch of ball (causing movement) it is in play. If GK kicks it a 2nd time the. 2 touch free kick rule (Law for the fellow refs) applies.

Correct on a goal kick however on a gk save technically its a simple two touch not 2 player so as its written if a gk simply bounces and catches it the build out wait is over. Its a horrible rule in general but its written even worse.

Yes I correctly describe goal kick rule.
On a GK save, the 2nd touch has nothing to do with anything. The ball is put into play when GK possesses it and then plays it. Putting it on the ground is putting it in play. And build out line is released. Picking it back up is meaningless. The build out line only comes into play of the GK holds possession of ball and does not put into play. At that age some leeway is clearly going to occur but the rule is what it is.
It is a simple rule, only confusing to those who try to take advantage of it as something other than a pause to allow buildout.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ref should not be telling players how to play. Only enforce the rule and explain infractions.

If the GK put the ball on ground then the build out line rule is that the ball is in play. Picking it back up doesn’t change that.

The rule on keeper possession is different than the rule on in play for build out rule.

Correct if he puts it down then picks it back up thats technically the 2nd touch and the opposing team is free to break the build out line.

Yes I am correct but read it again: when GK possesses from from field in play the ball is in play for buildout rule purpose when GK releases ball: throws, rolls, dribbles, sets it down, runs with it in his hands etc. 2nd touch has nothing to do with it. On a goal kick the GK can place the ball and then their first touch of ball (causing movement) it is in play. If GK kicks it a 2nd time the. 2 touch free kick rule (Law for the fellow refs) applies.

Correct on a goal kick however on a gk save technically its a simple two touch not 2 player so as its written if a gk simply bounces and catches it the build out wait is over. Its a horrible rule in general but its written even worse.

Yes I correctly describe goal kick rule.
On a GK save, the 2nd touch has nothing to do with anything. The ball is put into play when GK possesses it and then plays it. Putting it on the ground is putting it in play. And build out line is released. Picking it back up is meaningless. The build out line only comes into play of the GK holds possession of ball and does not put into play. At that age some leeway is clearly going to occur but the rule is what it is.
It is a simple rule, only confusing to those who try to take advantage of it as something other than a pause to allow buildout.

Incorrect , on a save the build out line is still enforced if keeper puts it down and kicks thats 1 touch. once a second touch occurs by any player including the keeper touching it then and only then is the build out line released.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Legit question for RSD. After a game do you have more parents and or coaches approach you to compliment or complain? and whats the approximate divide?

About 95% compliments. When I started, I didn't realize people would be so appreciative.

They usually aren't substantive compliments -- it'd be a little unusual for people to come and say, "Wow, that offside call was awesome!" -- just a quick thank-you.

Most complaints are brief and in-game. That's fine. I did that as a parent and coach, too, and people aren't going to agree with every call. A lot of people who complain about a call or two during the heat of the moment in a game come up and say thanks afterwards.

I got no complaints after games this weekend, though I had to throw out two coaches early in a game. The only complaint I remember from The Virginian was when a parent muttered under his breath, "still wasn't a penalty." (That was actually an easy call. An offside call later in the game was much closer -- I hate being the only ref at U-11 and U-12.) In Vienna's House league, I had to deal with a parent who was furious because I wouldn't let him stand right behind a goal and coach his kid during a game.

The WAGS Tournament -- well, let's not talk about that. A coach and some parents from Ohio were upset that I wouldn't let their U-10 girls maim the players from Georgia, and a Baltimore coach was trying to intimidate me throughout a different game. (I was horrible in that game, but not to his team's detriment by any means. The opposing coach told his players after the game that refs make a lot of mistakes, and I don't blame him.) I think those folks view refs as mere impediments to their U-10s' well-deserved places on the national team for the 2027 World Cup.

Two coaches were thrown out of U10 games this weekend?

Just one U-10 game. One team.

What happened?! My kid played on Field 2 all weekend and we didn't see any problematic coaches. Maybe they'd already been kicked out .

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ref should not be telling players how to play. Only enforce the rule and explain infractions.

If the GK put the ball on ground then the build out line rule is that the ball is in play. Picking it back up doesn’t change that.

The rule on keeper possession is different than the rule on in play for build out rule.

Correct if he puts it down then picks it back up thats technically the 2nd touch and the opposing team is free to break the build out line.

Yes I am correct but read it again: when GK possesses from from field in play the ball is in play for buildout rule purpose when GK releases ball: throws, rolls, dribbles, sets it down, runs with it in his hands etc. 2nd touch has nothing to do with it. On a goal kick the GK can place the ball and then their first touch of ball (causing movement) it is in play. If GK kicks it a 2nd time the. 2 touch free kick rule (Law for the fellow refs) applies.

Correct on a goal kick however on a gk save technically its a simple two touch not 2 player so as its written if a gk simply bounces and catches it the build out wait is over. Its a horrible rule in general but its written even worse.

Yes I correctly describe goal kick rule.
On a GK save, the 2nd touch has nothing to do with anything. The ball is put into play when GK possesses it and then plays it. Putting it on the ground is putting it in play. And build out line is released. Picking it back up is meaningless. The build out line only comes into play of the GK holds possession of ball and does not put into play. At that age some leeway is clearly going to occur but the rule is what it is.
It is a simple rule, only confusing to those who try to take advantage of it as something other than a pause to allow buildout.

Incorrect , on a save the build out line is still enforced if keeper puts it down and kicks thats 1 touch. once a second touch occurs by any player including the keeper touching it then and only then is the build out line released.

On what do you base that?

He’s just making it up, there is no reference to a second touch in the build out rule

[Anonymous]

It is simple according to USSF there is no reference to a 2nd touch: When a goalkeeper has the ball in hand or takes a goal kick, the opposing team remains behind the build-out line until the ball is put into play.

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2017/08/five-things-to-know-how-smallsided-standards-will-change-youth-soccer

[Anonymous]

Please tell me the fellow that is arguing a second touch requirement exists to release the buildout line is not a Center R

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen U10 refs not enforce the no heading rule too. That's a cause to try to pause the game and complain.

Some leagues and tournaments allow play to continue for inadvertent headers. I think everyone calls for an indirect kick for an intentional header.

I wish we had a little more latitude so that we don't have to whistle and do a drop ball for the slightest contact with the head. We're supposed to stop play for any potential head injury, anyway, even if a player trips and somehow hits their head with no foul of any kind being committed, so we'd still stop it immediately any time a player takes a hard shot to the face.

I wish they simply allowed the headers as they do in the rest of the world. Kids need to learn how to head the ball properly.

[Anonymous]

I’m happy for my kids to never head the ball. Not worth the risk of concussion. No one is going to the MLS. My kids need their brain cells for their real careers.