Should coaches complain if refs make a mistake?

[Anonymous]

Headers are more of a liability protection more than a safety factor. Too many d bags want to sue any chance they get, Also like striking the ball correctly with your feet isn't taught properly. The skill of heading isn't either.

[Anonymous]

Perhaps if the rules didn’t change every year and vary by league ... ref’s would be able to keep up.

Substitution rules
Yellow card cool off rules
Game length rules
Kiddie anti-header rules
Kiddie build out rules
Goal kick within the box rules
The always ambiguous, hand ball rule
And of course, the difficult to look at three things (passer, ball, receiver) at once offsides rule.

What’s more difficult to call: offsides in soccer, pass interference in football, a strike in baseball, or a charging/blocking foul in basketball?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Perhaps if the rules didn’t change every year and vary by league ... ref’s would be able to keep up.

Substitution rules
Yellow card cool off rules
Game length rules
Kiddie anti-header rules
Kiddie build out rules
Goal kick within the box rules
The always ambiguous, hand ball rule
And of course, the difficult to look at three things (passer, ball, receiver) at once offsides rule.

What’s more difficult to call: offsides in soccer, pass interference in football, a strike in baseball, or a charging/blocking foul in basketball?

I think offside is the easiest of the choices. Excellent question though.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Substitution rules and game length rules are worse than you think. They vary by league and tournament. I can do a U-12 NCSL game one weekend, then a U-12 game at The Virginian, and have two different sets of rules.
- The team that wins the coin toss can opt to take the kickoff instead of picking a side. (Kids love to pick the kickoff, which honestly confers no advantage whatsoever, whereas picking a side may have an advantage if the sun is in the keeper's eyes in the first or second half.)

I was surprised to hear a ref ask me before a game if we play 3 quarters or 4. Annoyed when the other coach put in a sub in 2nd grade, on the last day of the season when he should have known better.

Other advantage for picking sides is so I can talk to a goalie or defenders in a particular quarter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In the Father's Day tournament in Fairfax, a goalie picked up the ball then put it down to kick it, and the ref told him he couldn't do that and had him pick it up again. Should the coach complain to the tournament about this ref?

So based on your post in the other thread, this was a U10 game, which means they play with build out lines. Build out lines rules are not all clear. I am a referee and I haven't done a game with build out lines for a bit, in general, when a GK has possession of the ball, the other team has to retreat beyond the build out line. The opponent came press the ball once the GK plays the ball. Build out line rules doesn't talk about what "playing the ball" means. Does it mean once the GK puts it on the ground? I don't know. If a referee was asking the GK to throw it or roll it, I think that's OK. If the GK placed it on the ground and quickly passed it to a teammate, I think that's OK too, but remember drop kicks are not allowed either, so the GK can't drop it and kick it on the bounce. So as much as I hate to defend RSD if he was the culprit, I can see where requesting the GK to throw or roll the ball is OK. Again, I'm sure you can find plenty of referees that 100% agree with you.

So whats the theory behind no punts or drop kicks?

Well there is no heading U11 and Under so no punting or drop kicks reduces the number of times the ball is in the air and probably the biggest reason is that no punting forces the younger kids to have to play shorter balls and thus "build out from the back" instead of long ball to the forward.

Yeah. There's no heading so they need to play the ball on the ground. That's how ds's coach explained it to them.

Op, was this a young ref?

No it wasn't. That probably does change things. I had an in house Loudoun tournament where a young ref said there is only one try on throw-ins. The other coach agreed with me(Loudoun rule for 3rd and 4th grade), but the ref insisted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[q

Incorrect , on a save the build out line is still enforced if keeper puts it down and kicks thats 1 touch. once a second touch occurs by any player including the keeper touching it then and only then is the build out line released.

Wrong. We scored several goals this season because players started advancing once the goalie released the ball. The ball does not have to hit the ground either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What happened?! My kid played on Field 2 all weekend and we didn't see any problematic coaches. Maybe they'd already been kicked out .

I was suspicious at our 2nd match that a parent was admonished for coaching his kid too much during the 1st game. He was suddenly rather muted.

[Anonymous]

This is why coaches shouldn't complain; they're often wrong. And if they're right, they should provide something to the referee crew afterwards.

But here's SYC's Technical Director yelling at a referee that the attacking player was "two yards" offsides (and the player wasn't). Instead of teaching defensive principles, there's this.

https://go.traceup.com/#/wj8m14on/games/35524/goals/54

[Anonymous]

A lot of discussion in this thread around the specific question and around some of the more confusing rules and rule adaptations but as a coach and referee it's worth sharing a more generic answer to the general question in the subject. Referees make mistakes all the time.

First--yelling at the referee will never be helpful, just don't. Snide comments, "you're missing a good game here ref" don't really help either though I understand it can be really, really hard to resist.

Second--we have a massive shortage of quality referees in this area so supporting referees and helping them improve is great but abusing them and pushing them away from the game is generally bad. There are a handful of exceptions to that rule that really need to retire, but they are so comfortable in their wrongness your criticism won't help them anyways.

If the official didn't see something that happened there really isn't anything you can do to help that. We can't see everything every time. Sometimes our positioning is off and our view is bad, sometimes our positioning is perfect and we still get screened and don't see what we need to see. If the coach wants to calmly point out what was missed after the game that's fine, though the only outcome will be to make the coach feel better not improve the ref.

If the official saw something but interpreted the laws wrong or messed up on the rules of the competition e.g. league-specific rules that is where it could potentially be helpful for a coach to make a comment. The best strategy is to calmly and in a supportive manner approach the official at halftime or after the match and let him/her know about how you think they made a mistake. If they are receptive to your feedback, thank them and move on. If they are not receptive you have a couple additional avenues available to you if the misunderstanding is truly egregious. I once had a referee insist to me that he was correct to not apply advantage when a defender handled the ball on the goal line but the ball continued into the goal--that is a situation where it is best that the referee gain a better understanding of the laws. Each coach should know who within the club deals with referee assignors and the issue can be raised through channels to the appropriate referee assignor who can reach out to the referee involved.

Good rule of thumb, if your goal is to help the referee improve then have the conversation, if your goal is to whine or complain about a mistake better to vent at the pub with your fellow coaches.

Second rule of thumb, if you're going to try to correct the referee you better make very, very sure you know the LOTG better than the referee or you're just going to make yourself look like the standard idiot coach who thinks he knows more than he does. I can't count how many times I get told something absolutely stupid by a coach every season or something that was true in the laws back in the 1970's but has changed a lot since then. The past few years IFAB has been rolling out what feels like a brand new set of laws every year--are you still so sure you know more than the referee whose job it is to know those laws and all those changes?