Spin-off: VDOE math changes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have a sense of how likely this is to happen? How would this work in a place like Fairfax that has AAP? Would AAP no longer be able to have a separate math track?

I am all for rethinking math education, but it seems hard to imagine how some kids will be ready for calculus in 11th grade (as shown in the flow charts) without some tracking.

Aap math classes would violate DOE rules under this standard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP and I am all for rethinking high school math education for people who are "not math people." For a lot of professionals, a solid understanding of basic statistics is probably a lot more important than what you learn in Algebra 2.

Having watched the promotional video about this new initiative (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz7XElC9jx8) it seems like they are overly dismissive of calculus and also don't seem to get the distinction between learning the basics of stats (something everyone should know) and really understanding the math behind stats, which requires linear algebra. Any college stats class from a math or applied math department would also require calculus (which of course underpins many sciences and economics). It is also not clear to me how people will take AP Physics without some knowledge of calculus (or at least being well set up to quickly absorb the basics).

Perhaps it's because I really liked calculus, but I think it is more valuable than just allowing you to solve engineering problems. The disciple of working through a calculus problem requires you to think and reason in a certain way. There is an element of discipline and focus that carries over into other thinking and problem solving.

Liberal art majors always try to convince me that philosophy and other liberal arts classes can teach the same skills, but that hasn't been my experience. There are many people who BS their way through most liberal arts classes, but you can't get away with that in calculus.

I don't think everyone needs calculus, but I do think it's beneficial for anyone shooting for a selective college. Just like taking a language, it's a way of proving that you can tackle challenging content. I'd be very sad if calculus stops being mainstay of education. Stats and other applied math classes just don't have the same rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone in another thread posted this link. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml

I was unaware of this proposal. My youngest kid (who is very strong at math) is in 4th grade now so I am trying to figure out what this may mean. Has anyone been following this closely? I'm new to Virginia so I don't have a great sense of the process and how much the counties have to follow stuff like this (or can they still track even if the state doesn't want to). Where I am from the local school districts are pretty autonomous.

They've finally accepted the fact that they will never be able to level up the bottom 25% so they will be dumbing down the top 25% to make it all equitable.

This.

[Anonymous]

Here is one of the main papers cited to justify not tracking students in math.

https://www.mathedleadership.org/docs/resources/positionpapers/NCSMPositionPaper19.pdf

Basically, for math to be “equitable” expectations will be lowered and everyone will have to learn at the rate of the lowest students.

This is a terrible policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP and I am all for rethinking high school math education for people who are "not math people." For a lot of professionals, a solid understanding of basic statistics is probably a lot more important than what you learn in Algebra 2.

Having watched the promotional video about this new initiative (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz7XElC9jx8) it seems like they are overly dismissive of calculus and also don't seem to get the distinction between learning the basics of stats (something everyone should know) and really understanding the math behind stats, which requires linear algebra. Any college stats class from a math or applied math department would also require calculus (which of course underpins many sciences and economics). It is also not clear to me how people will take AP Physics without some knowledge of calculus (or at least being well set up to quickly absorb the basics).

Perhaps it's because I really liked calculus, but I think it is more valuable than just allowing you to solve engineering problems. The disciple of working through a calculus problem requires you to think and reason in a certain way. There is an element of discipline and focus that carries over into other thinking and problem solving.

Liberal art majors always try to convince me that philosophy and other liberal arts classes can teach the same skills, but that hasn't been my experience. There are many people who BS their way through most liberal arts classes, but you can't get away with that in calculus.

I don't think everyone needs calculus, but I do think it's beneficial for anyone shooting for a selective college. Just like taking a language, it's a way of proving that you can tackle challenging content. I'd be very sad if calculus stops being mainstay of education. Stats and other applied math classes just don't have the same rigor.

This is absolutely true. It’s not just the direct use of the skill in something like engineering. Calculus (and other subjects like Geometry) teach a way of thinking and processing information.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone told the Fairfax AAP parents about this? I would imagine they would go at the VA DOE with pitchforks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if equity is that important, they're also going to make all school sports no-cut with equal playing time for all, right? Everyone should get an equal chance to play. After all, school sports use public funds.

If you want equity, don't apply it selectively to academics.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone in another thread posted this link. https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml

I was unaware of this proposal. My youngest kid (who is very strong at math) is in 4th grade now so I am trying to figure out what this may mean. Has anyone been following this closely? I'm new to Virginia so I don't have a great sense of the process and how much the counties have to follow stuff like this (or can they still track even if the state doesn't want to). Where I am from the local school districts are pretty autonomous.

I am a Virginia Math teacher and I attended a Webinair regarding these changes. The plan is to get rid of ALL advanced math classes until Jr year.
You heard it right, JUNIOR year. So advanced math students would be in mixed ability classes through most of their school careers.
And of course by Junior, the most they will be able to advance is one year.

Certainly puts bright Virginia students at a disadvantage when applying to colleges outside the state.

Thanks PP!! I'm going to try to watch the next Webinar. My kid will be in 8th grade in 2024. According to his teachers he will likely be in the accelerated math program where he does Algebra in 7th grade (I realize that is not 100% guaranteed). Did they say what they will do with kids who were already tracked? Or will that tracking be discontinued even before all of this officially starts? Also how will some kids be ready for calculus by 11th grade without tracking? Will everyone cover all material in algebra 1and 2, trig and geometry by then?

Also do you think this is definitely going to happen or is it a trial balloon?

It sounded like kids who are already being tracked would stop being tracked. And no, nothing was mentioned as to how students would be prepared for advanced math junior year, something that I was wondering about as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone told the Fairfax AAP parents about this? I would imagine they would go at the VA DOE with pitchforks.

Someone please do. There needs to be a campaign to end this nonsense now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone told the Fairfax AAP parents about this? I would imagine they would go at the VA DOE with pitchforks.

Someone please do. There needs to be a campaign to end this nonsense now.

It’s on the AAP page already. Glad someone cross posted here though too since not everyone looks at that page. It’s interesting - this is a HUGE shift and just had a webinar and has a lot of info on the DOE page yet there is nothing on it in the Washington post. I even searched back but they have not covered this crazy scheme at all so far. Anyone know a reporter there who MIGHT give a balanced take on this including impacts on the advanced kids vs just a “yay!equity!” cheer?

[Anonymous]

A few materials links:

They have added a question / comment submission form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSesz3YtqV...yEQ5eTgZMQ/viewform?utm_name=

Website page: https://www.doe.virginia.gov/instruction/mathematics/vmpi/index.shtml

Webinar where they clearly say NO more different math classes - everyone gets the same until 11th. And “in class differentiation” to “go deeper” will be provided to kids who get it quickly and need more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siS8jlTcUzo

[Anonymous]

As far as the stopping tracking for those already in advanced Math, what year does that start?

[Anonymous]

So other countries are already ahead in teaching their kids math, this is like saying we give up. How are we going to compete globally if we are not inspiring our best and brightest. I don’t get it. Equity should be about giving opportunity to be your best. Not this.

[Anonymous]

This is going to crater VA real estate. Hoardes will move to MD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So if equity is that important, they're also going to make all school sports no-cut with equal playing time for all, right? Everyone should get an equal chance to play. After all, school sports use public funds.

If you want equity, don't apply it selectively to academics.

Can you imagine the outrage? Just a case of picking on the math geeks.