Is this a disability?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not a disability, and as a disabled person I find your post really rude.

But it sounds like your family all ganged up on her and were bullies about it and it turned into a phobia. Congratulations, hope you feel guilty.

I disagree. I have a kid with special needs and I have a Ph D and I have a driving phobia. There are all kinds of ways to skills and knowledge. I have learned this with my child who has had neuropsychological evaluations a few times now. There are so many things that can be tested--including spatial perception; processing speed; really too many here to list. I couldn't tell my left from my right until high school; I get lost very easily and couldn't go unfamiliar places before GPS; I don't do highway driving as I think I have a processing speed deficit and my idea of hell is a long road trip. What's interesting to me in your sister's story is her ability to math--I always thought that math skills translated to the kinds of skills you needed for driving. Anyway your sister needs help from both a mental health therapist who works with phobias and a professional driving instructor. There are ways to overcome it. I am much better now that GPS exists and I also know that my kid with SN relies on me to take him to appointments. She needs to work on this like any other problem; shaming her won't help.

[Anonymous]

Probably anxiety. But, also it's impossible to get lost now that every phone has GPS. I think you should just leave her alone, and be more supportive.

[Anonymous]

Does she own a car? If you are coming from another country, she would need to own a car for you to drive. If she owns a car, this story makes no sense that she stopped driving years ago because the first thing you would do it not buy a car or if you had a traumatic moment, you sell the car. So the idea that she can’t drive but maintains car payments and insurance and maintenance and such on a car seems weird. If she is going to rent a car for you, not sure that is much safer than masks in an Uber, but could she use the money she would have spent renting a car, which is absurdly expensive, to at least hire a specific person - maybe a neighbor or friend - who would drive her.

Something feels odd about the new details.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Probably anxiety. But, also it's impossible to get lost now that every phone has GPS. I think you should just leave her alone, and be more supportive.

FWIW I don't think you can assume that just because GPS exists all people can use it to navigate. If you can't grasp what 400 yards looks like or remember left from right or can't translate either the visual or the auditory to the real road in front of you, forget it.

My niece didn't get a license until she was 21 and had surgery to remove a portion of her brain that causes her seizures. Turned out her spatial sense was very poor, possibly the surgery had some impact on visual processing, and after 3 accidents in a short period of time she said forget it and surrendered her license. Later the seizures returned so she couldn't have continued driving anyway. She uses Uber when needed but disability transit (she's beyond range of the bus routes where she lives) when possible (cheaper although very inflexible).

Anyone ever read an anthropology book Beyond Culture, written ages ago? In one chapter the author describes students he had who had odd processing quirks. One guy could never follow a map. But he had a weirdly pronounced memory for physical sensation so he learned to get regular places by physically memorizing the dips and bumps and turns on his route by driving a car with rigid suspension.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does she own a car? If you are coming from another country, she would need to own a car for you to drive. If she owns a car, this story makes no sense that she stopped driving years ago because the first thing you would do it not buy a car or if you had a traumatic moment, you sell the car. So the idea that she can’t drive but maintains car payments and insurance and maintenance and such on a car seems weird. If she is going to rent a car for you, not sure that is much safer than masks in an Uber, but could she use the money she would have spent renting a car, which is absurdly expensive, to at least hire a specific person - maybe a neighbor or friend - who would drive her.

Something feels odd about the new details.

OP here. There's nothing "odd" about the new details. She doesn't own a car. You came up with that yourself.

To the others, she lives in the US.

[Anonymous]

I have a family member like this. It’s not a disability but she needs to learn. She should hire a teacher, use google directions, and at least be able to drive around her town.

[Anonymous]

It could absolutely be related to a learning disability, and if so, she can absolutely learn to deal with it. My sibling’s disability affects spatial sense and it took them a long while to learn how to drive (staying on the lane and knowing where the car was in relation to other objects was hard) and they rely on map apps when driving alone.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like your sister is a perfectly capable adult. Has she actually asked for your help and advice with this or are you just continuing your earlier trend of bullying and harassing her?

[Anonymous]

developmental topographical disorientation
https://www.jneurosci.org/content/35/37/12954
It’s rare but possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My sister doesn't drive and she is 35 years old. This is affecting her life in multiple negative ways, especially during quarantine.

She got her license at 16 and had a terrible sense of direction. She actually got lost driving to our grandma's house, which was an hour away, and a place where she'd been driven weekly her entire life. My parents would make her drive back to grandma's every weekend after she got her license and...she seemed incapable of remembering where to turn or what to do. We would laugh and she would cry. My parents made her get a summer job and drive herself there, and she got lost over and over again that summer just driving between the mall and home. This was of course in the days before Sat nav. She also repeatedly damaged the car going in and out of the garage and we think she hit another car in the parking lot at work. My brother and I were really mean about this and my parents were angry and frustrated, but now I wonder if she had something really wrong, more than just a bad sense of direction.

My sister has a ph d. in electrical engineering now. She is brilliant and functional in all other ways, but refuses to drive because she says she knows she will have an accident. I think she should take lessons with a patient teacher and try to figure out this important life skill, but I'm not sure. She got so upset the last time we spoke about it and said she thinks she has an actual disability that manifests in her difficulty with driving and directions. Does anybody know anything about this as a possible condition or symptom, or have you known anyone like this?

Well, I know some people who have assholes for family members, and your sister definitely has that problem. She might well have some kind of disability related to spatial awareness and understanding, and now she's probably anxious about it on top of that because her jackass family laughed at her. I think that you should shut your face about what she should do, because you're not a person who is going to be a trusted source of information on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dad is an electrical engineer and since I know how his brain works in order to be one, and you say your sister has a PhD I don't think she has a learning disability like you mean.

I wonder if it's connected to nerves. Kind of like when a woman is uncomfortable with her sexual partner she clenches and can't relax so thinks there's something physically wrong with her body. There is, but not in the way she thinks.

I wonder if all your sister's car accidents were ways of trying to get out of having to drive.

My daughter is very smart and when she was 13 and begging to go out without me, I would say "Tell me HOW you would get to the mall". It was a 20 minute walk that literally involved ONE turn. She couldn't tell me. I'd say "visualize our building. You walk out the front door. The gas station is across the street. Now to get to the mall do you turn right or left?" and she couldn't tell me. Even though she knew. I pushed her through this and now she can explain how to get anywhere in our city.

I think your sister might be very scared of driving and that is causing her to not be able to think about directions. She's a grown adult - tell her you've thought about it and whatever she wants to do about driving, it's her choice and you support her, and you're sorry about how much you teased her as kids. Then DROP IT.

PP, what you’ve written about really resonates with me. I’m feel like I lose the details and struggle with sequencing. This happened for me after chronic illness and tbi (head injury.) I desperately want to get back to the fluidity I had previously, or even get to a point I can calm the fight/flight panic to try to think clearly again. Do you have tips that helped your daughter? Did you consider executive functioning? Thank you so much

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe she has ADD? She is not able to concentrate on what is important- the directions - because she gets lost in other stimuli. She can hyper focus on one thing - her work - but at the expense of all other information. In a car, that gets you killed.

Regardless of why - disability, bad memory, anxiety, lack of Interest, She does not need to drive. Uber, taxi, public transit. Bike. Walk. She can get where she Needs to be. She is an adult and you don’t need to encourage her to do anything.

Could be ADD or ASD or both. Or she’s just ruling you all up or just doesn’t want to drive.

Did she play any sports? (Coordinated?)
Does she know Left from right instantly? (Brain structuring)
Can she plan a week trip that makes sense or a weekend?
Multitask?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dad is an electrical engineer and since I know how his brain works in order to be one, and you say your sister has a PhD I don't think she has a learning disability like you mean.

I wonder if it's connected to nerves. Kind of like when a woman is uncomfortable with her sexual partner she clenches and can't relax so thinks there's something physically wrong with her body. There is, but not in the way she thinks.

I wonder if all your sister's car accidents were ways of trying to get out of having to drive.

My daughter is very smart and when she was 13 and begging to go out without me, I would say "Tell me HOW you would get to the mall". It was a 20 minute walk that literally involved ONE turn. She couldn't tell me. I'd say "visualize our building. You walk out the front door. The gas station is across the street. Now to get to the mall do you turn right or left?" and she couldn't tell me. Even though she knew. I pushed her through this and now she can explain how to get anywhere in our city.

I think your sister might be very scared of driving and that is causing her to not be able to think about directions. She's a grown adult - tell her you've thought about it and whatever she wants to do about driving, it's her choice and you support her, and you're sorry about how much you teased her as kids. Then DROP IT.

A PhD and job in academia is likely perfect for her, the pace, the certainty, the projects, repetition.

Agree a neuro pysche could help hone in on processing speed, situational awareness, brain connectivity, reaction time, etc. all things that make a good driver.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad is an electrical engineer and since I know how his brain works in order to be one, and you say your sister has a PhD I don't think she has a learning disability like you mean.

I wonder if it's connected to nerves. Kind of like when a woman is uncomfortable with her sexual partner she clenches and can't relax so thinks there's something physically wrong with her body. There is, but not in the way she thinks.

I wonder if all your sister's car accidents were ways of trying to get out of having to drive.

My daughter is very smart and when she was 13 and begging to go out without me, I would say "Tell me HOW you would get to the mall". It was a 20 minute walk that literally involved ONE turn. She couldn't tell me. I'd say "visualize our building. You walk out the front door. The gas station is across the street. Now to get to the mall do you turn right or left?" and she couldn't tell me. Even though she knew. I pushed her through this and now she can explain how to get anywhere in our city.

I think your sister might be very scared of driving and that is causing her to not be able to think about directions. She's a grown adult - tell her you've thought about it and whatever she wants to do about driving, it's her choice and you support her, and you're sorry about how much you teased her as kids. Then DROP IT.

Interesting connections about engineers and driving. My mom worked in engineering for 35+ years and honestly does not know left from right. She also has zero sense of direction even when driving in the town that she's lived in since 1989! My dad also was an engineer and is a terrible driver. He tailgates people frequently and does not realize when he's speeding. He almost lost his license back in the 1990s because he had so many points.

+10000

Husband with aspergers and successful career can’t drive well at all - rear ends cars, drives to wrong destinations mindlessly using gps (ie puts in wrong place), tailgates, speeds and doesn’t realize it, Can’t read signs while driving, gassing it when going downhill, doesn’t know right of way rules so gestures for everyone else to go). The worst was he used to use left food for braking and right for for acceleration and argue like and A-hole with me that that was just fine and better! (Aspergers people never admit fault or mistakes)

Don’t let her drive if she doesn’t want to. She is self-policing herself.

If she does want to, she should pay up for good behind the wheel lessons.

[Anonymous]

She'll need to make a lifestyle change if this is affecting her so greatly that she wants help from family in another country. Maybe she needs to move somewhere that is more walkable or close to public transport. It doesn't sound like something she willing or able to overcome at this point in her life. Plenty of people live without driving. She will need to figure it out.