Bon Appetit not paying non-white editors for appearances

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question is coming from an Asian-American -

Can you tell me specifically why the Puerto Rican thing is an issue? I understand why black face is problematic because of the history of it. I saw what I assume is the costume in question and it looks like he just dressed up as a baseball player who is Puerto Rican (I don’t know which one)? I don’t see the “brown face”... is he wearing makeup in the picture? I’m more offended by the woman who is pictured in stereotypical garb.

I’m just thinking that people dress up as Cleopatra and all sorts of specific people and nobody seems offended at that.

I meant to clarify that I think the woman pictured is offensive because she doesn’t seem to be a specific person, just a costume involving racial tropes. With Rapoport, I’m assuming he is dressing up like a specific ball player. If he’s actually just dressed as “a Puerto Rican,” I can see why that’s offensive.

Non-Asian here. I'll answer your question with a question - how did you feel about Scarlett Johansen playing the title character in Ghost In A Shell?

I wouldn’t tweet demanding she be booed or protested as a racist. I don’t think it’s racist for her to play that role.
But sure, it seems like they could have found someone at least of partial asian descent to play that role. Just like I think BA should have some higher level positions fill by some non white people.

And people don’t seem to have a problem with white people and other non-Asians dressing up as Asians for Halloween.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t assistant editors always paid less than editors? I don’t see the issue here but I feel it’s because I’m missing info.

So it is ok to play POC less if you give them a crappier title?

I think the real question is why all the editors are white while only assistant editors are POC. It was slightly misleading to say only white editors were paid. Only editors were paid. Yes, all those editors happen to be white. And that is the problem. It’s not that there are white editors and POC editors and only the white ones were paid.

That's how institutional racism works. No one made a rule that only white editors would get paid. It just somehow worked out that none of the POC editors were granted that title. And until this woman said something, everyone at that company, including her white coworkers, were silent on the issue. Those people probably don't consider themselves racist. But because the way the system was setup didn't hurt them, they were comfortable turning a blind eye. And if a POC had said THIS IS RACIST previously, they'd have been dismissed as a nutcase.

[Anonymous]

it's not an accident that all the editors who actually get paid are white, and it's not an accident that the vast majority of corporate leadership is white. This happens all around us, and white people say nothing. It's time for this crap to end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t assistant editors always paid less than editors? I don’t see the issue here but I feel it’s because I’m missing info.

So it is ok to play POC less if you give them a crappier title?

I think the real question is why all the editors are white while only assistant editors are POC. It was slightly misleading to say only white editors were paid. Only editors were paid. Yes, all those editors happen to be white. And that is the problem. It’s not that there are white editors and POC editors and only the white ones were paid.

That's how institutional racism works. No one made a rule that only white editors would get paid. It just somehow worked out that none of the POC editors were granted that title. And until this woman said something, everyone at that company, including her white coworkers, were silent on the issue. Those people probably don't consider themselves racist. But because the way the system was setup didn't hurt them, they were comfortable turning a blind eye. And if a POC had said THIS IS RACIST previously, they'd have been dismissed as a nutcase.

I agree with you. And I thinks it’s a potato, potahto thing - it’s racist either way. But I still think the focus should be on the editor/assistant editor issue along with getting paid. Framing it as “only WHITE editors got paid and POC didn’t” sets it up so people can say “Oh look POC trying to make trouble again and lying; editors got paid and assistants didn’t.” I’d also want to know whether there are white assistant editors. Did they get paid? I say this as a minority btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t assistant editors always paid less than editors? I don’t see the issue here but I feel it’s because I’m missing info.

So it is ok to play POC less if you give them a crappier title?

I think the real question is why all the editors are white while only assistant editors are POC. It was slightly misleading to say only white editors were paid. Only editors were paid. Yes, all those editors happen to be white. And that is the problem. It’s not that there are white editors and POC editors and only the white ones were paid.

That's how institutional racism works. No one made a rule that only white editors would get paid. It just somehow worked out that none of the POC editors were granted that title. And until this woman said something, everyone at that company, including her white coworkers, were silent on the issue. Those people probably don't consider themselves racist. But because the way the system was setup didn't hurt them, they were comfortable turning a blind eye. And if a POC had said THIS IS RACIST previously, they'd have been dismissed as a nutcase.

I agree with you. And I thinks it’s a potato, potahto thing - it’s racist either way. But I still think the focus should be on the editor/assistant editor issue along with getting paid. Framing it as “only WHITE editors got paid and POC didn’t” sets it up so people can say “Oh look POC trying to make trouble again and lying; editors got paid and assistants didn’t.” I’d also want to know whether there are white assistant editors. Did they get paid? I say this as a minority btw.

But the issue at it's core is still a race one. If you create a system where for some reason only white people are being granted the title that comes with pay, why? Why is that happening? Allowing people to dismiss it as simply a distinction between editors and associate editors, you miss the forrest for the trees. Whether there are white assistant editors is beyond the point, and simply a distraction. POC are being kept out of the paying positions, and the company (and the country) needs to reckon with why that has been allowed to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:it's not an accident that all the editors who actually get paid are white, and it's not an accident that the vast majority of corporate leadership is white. This happens all around us, and white people say nothing. It's time for this crap to end.

Should there be a distinction between institutional/structural racism and personal/individual racism though? If Rapoport didn’t have the Puerto Rican Halloween thing, do you think he should still be fired or resign? Or do we just demand that Bon Appétit here more BIPOC in their management levels?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question is coming from an Asian-American -

Can you tell me specifically why the Puerto Rican thing is an issue? I understand why black face is problematic because of the history of it. I saw what I assume is the costume in question and it looks like he just dressed up as a baseball player who is Puerto Rican (I don’t know which one)? I don’t see the “brown face”... is he wearing makeup in the picture? I’m more offended by the woman who is pictured in stereotypical garb.

I’m just thinking that people dress up as Cleopatra and all sorts of specific people and nobody seems offended at that.

I meant to clarify that I think the woman pictured is offensive because she doesn’t seem to be a specific person, just a costume involving racial tropes. With Rapoport, I’m assuming he is dressing up like a specific ball player. If he’s actually just dressed as “a Puerto Rican,” I can see why that’s offensive.

Non-Asian here. I'll answer your question with a question - how did you feel about Scarlett Johansen playing the title character in Ghost In A Shell?

I wouldn’t tweet demanding she be booed or protested as a racist. I don’t think it’s racist for her to play that role.
But sure, it seems like they could have found someone at least of partial asian descent to play that role. Just like I think BA should have some higher level positions fill by some non white people.

And people don’t seem to have a problem with white people and other non-Asians dressing up as Asians for Halloween.

They would if Asians spoke up about it. You don't protest or fight anything, nothing changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t assistant editors always paid less than editors? I don’t see the issue here but I feel it’s because I’m missing info.

So it is ok to play POC less if you give them a crappier title?

I think the real question is why all the editors are white while only assistant editors are POC. It was slightly misleading to say only white editors were paid. Only editors were paid. Yes, all those editors happen to be white. And that is the problem. It’s not that there are white editors and POC editors and only the white ones were paid.

That's how institutional racism works. No one made a rule that only white editors would get paid. It just somehow worked out that none of the POC editors were granted that title. And until this woman said something, everyone at that company, including her white coworkers, were silent on the issue. Those people probably don't consider themselves racist. But because the way the system was setup didn't hurt them, they were comfortable turning a blind eye. And if a POC had said THIS IS RACIST previously, they'd have been dismissed as a nutcase.

I agree with you. And I thinks it’s a potato, potahto thing - it’s racist either way. But I still think the focus should be on the editor/assistant editor issue along with getting paid. Framing it as “only WHITE editors got paid and POC didn’t” sets it up so people can say “Oh look POC trying to make trouble again and lying; editors got paid and assistants didn’t.” I’d also want to know whether there are white assistant editors. Did they get paid? I say this as a minority btw.

But the issue at it's core is still a race one. If you create a system where for some reason only white people are being granted the title that comes with pay, why? Why is that happening? Allowing people to dismiss it as simply a distinction between editors and associate editors, you miss the forrest for the trees. Whether there are white assistant editors is beyond the point, and simply a distraction. POC are being kept out of the paying positions, and the company (and the country) needs to reckon with why that has been allowed to happen.

Then I think we need to ask why BA doesn’t have a single BIPOC editor. And say that only editors get paid and assistants do not. That to me suggests a structural problem. Whereas the way I’ve seen it framed was “Look at Rapoport the racist, he only paid white editors and didn’t pay the minority ones.” So BA has a larger more systemic issue. We don’t just need to get the minority assistant editors paid. We need to push for more inclusive hiring and promoting practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question is coming from an Asian-American -

Can you tell me specifically why the Puerto Rican thing is an issue? I understand why black face is problematic because of the history of it. I saw what I assume is the costume in question and it looks like he just dressed up as a baseball player who is Puerto Rican (I don’t know which one)? I don’t see the “brown face”... is he wearing makeup in the picture? I’m more offended by the woman who is pictured in stereotypical garb.

I’m just thinking that people dress up as Cleopatra and all sorts of specific people and nobody seems offended at that.

I meant to clarify that I think the woman pictured is offensive because she doesn’t seem to be a specific person, just a costume involving racial tropes. With Rapoport, I’m assuming he is dressing up like a specific ball player. If he’s actually just dressed as “a Puerto Rican,” I can see why that’s offensive.

Non-Asian here. I'll answer your question with a question - how did you feel about Scarlett Johansen playing the title character in Ghost In A Shell?

I wouldn’t tweet demanding she be booed or protested as a racist. I don’t think it’s racist for her to play that role.
But sure, it seems like they could have found someone at least of partial asian descent to play that role. Just like I think BA should have some higher level positions fill by some non white people.

And people don’t seem to have a problem with white people and other non-Asians dressing up as Asians for Halloween.

They would if Asians spoke up about it. You don't protest or fight anything, nothing changes.

Plenty of (Asian and Asian-American) people tweet and Instagram when these things happen to those of Asian descent. The problem is that white social justice warriors do not retweet and share the way they do when it’s about “black and brown people.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it's not an accident that all the editors who actually get paid are white, and it's not an accident that the vast majority of corporate leadership is white. This happens all around us, and white people say nothing. It's time for this crap to end.

Should there be a distinction between institutional/structural racism and personal/individual racism though? If Rapoport didn’t have the Puerto Rican Halloween thing, do you think he should still be fired or resign? Or do we just demand that Bon Appétit here more BIPOC in their management levels?

I'm a black woman (of Puerto Rican descent). I don't really give a sh!t about the Halloween picture within this context. The institutional racism is so much more harmful than some doofus in a costume.

I think he and other people in management making these hiring decisions should absolutely resign. I cannot for one moment fathom that they didn’t see what was happening. And if they didn't, they weren't paying attention, and should be replaced by people who are more prepared to fix the issue.

This stuff adds up over generations. It snowballs. And if stuff like this is allowed to continue, where white people are given opportunities and wealth that POC are kept out of, all of the various "gaps" that exist grow into gulfs.

All the white people shaking in your boots about a potential race war? You sit by and let this stuff continue to happen for another hundred years, or even another 50 years...I promise you that is exactly what will happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t assistant editors always paid less than editors? I don’t see the issue here but I feel it’s because I’m missing info.

So it is ok to play POC less if you give them a crappier title?

I think the real question is why all the editors are white while only assistant editors are POC. It was slightly misleading to say only white editors were paid. Only editors were paid. Yes, all those editors happen to be white. And that is the problem. It’s not that there are white editors and POC editors and only the white ones were paid.

That's how institutional racism works. No one made a rule that only white editors would get paid. It just somehow worked out that none of the POC editors were granted that title. And until this woman said something, everyone at that company, including her white coworkers, were silent on the issue. Those people probably don't consider themselves racist. But because the way the system was setup didn't hurt them, they were comfortable turning a blind eye. And if a POC had said THIS IS RACIST previously, they'd have been dismissed as a nutcase.

I agree with you. And I thinks it’s a potato, potahto thing - it’s racist either way. But I still think the focus should be on the editor/assistant editor issue along with getting paid. Framing it as “only WHITE editors got paid and POC didn’t” sets it up so people can say “Oh look POC trying to make trouble again and lying; editors got paid and assistants didn’t.” I’d also want to know whether there are white assistant editors. Did they get paid? I say this as a minority btw.

But the issue at it's core is still a race one. If you create a system where for some reason only white people are being granted the title that comes with pay, why? Why is that happening? Allowing people to dismiss it as simply a distinction between editors and associate editors, you miss the forrest for the trees. Whether there are white assistant editors is beyond the point, and simply a distraction. POC are being kept out of the paying positions, and the company (and the country) needs to reckon with why that has been allowed to happen.

Then I think we need to ask why BA doesn’t have a single BIPOC editor. And say that only editors get paid and assistants do not. That to me suggests a structural problem. Whereas the way I’ve seen it framed was “Look at Rapoport the racist, he only paid white editors and didn’t pay the minority ones.” So BA has a larger more systemic issue. We don’t just need to get the minority assistant editors paid. We need to push for more inclusive hiring and promoting practices.

PP you're responding to, and I totally agree. I think we're saying the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t assistant editors always paid less than editors? I don’t see the issue here but I feel it’s because I’m missing info.

So it is ok to play POC less if you give them a crappier title?

I think the real question is why all the editors are white while only assistant editors are POC. It was slightly misleading to say only white editors were paid. Only editors were paid. Yes, all those editors happen to be white. And that is the problem. It’s not that there are white editors and POC editors and only the white ones were paid.

Got it, thank you for clarifying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aren’t assistant editors always paid less than editors? I don’t see the issue here but I feel it’s because I’m missing info.

So it is ok to play POC less if you give them a crappier title?

I think the real question is why all the editors are white while only assistant editors are POC. It was slightly misleading to say only white editors were paid. Only editors were paid. Yes, all those editors happen to be white. And that is the problem. It’s not that there are white editors and POC editors and only the white ones were paid.

That's how institutional racism works. No one made a rule that only white editors would get paid. It just somehow worked out that none of the POC editors were granted that title. And until this woman said something, everyone at that company, including her white coworkers, were silent on the issue. Those people probably don't consider themselves racist. But because the way the system was setup didn't hurt them, they were comfortable turning a blind eye. And if a POC had said THIS IS RACIST previously, they'd have been dismissed as a nutcase.

I agree with you. And I thinks it’s a potato, potahto thing - it’s racist either way. But I still think the focus should be on the editor/assistant editor issue along with getting paid. Framing it as “only WHITE editors got paid and POC didn’t” sets it up so people can say “Oh look POC trying to make trouble again and lying; editors got paid and assistants didn’t.” I’d also want to know whether there are white assistant editors. Did they get paid? I say this as a minority btw.

I'm reading this the same way you are PP. I think that some of the posters here are using a big brush and it is going to backfire. It is okay to be very specific - this is racist because... But using the big brush and claiming it is ALL racist does more harm than good. At some point people will begin tuning out all of these protests because it is too much fluff and no substance. Credibility is more important than quantity in this case. I am not a POC but I am the mom in a mixed race family.

[Anonymous]

Why didn’t anyone say anything in 2013 when Rapoport’s wife posted the photo of them both? Was it not offensive to us collectively as Americans, or what?

[Anonymous]

For those who said they can't tell its brownface. You just have to look at their friends comments to clearly see the intentions of the couple - negatively portraying Puerto Rican gangster lifestyle when they both grew up in affluent UMC households (Rapaport went to Wilson in DC)