Alleged teacher shortage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If the principal hires a long-term sub, they are in essence filling the position. I dont understand the rationale here -- so they are willing to hire someone they see as crappy or unqualified for a year? Sucks to be those kids.

Also there is still someone willing to do the work if they took the LT sub job?

They usually hire a LT sub because school is starting or has already started and they need someone to babysit the class. School isn’t like other jobs which can possibly be left unfilled for extended periods of time. In teaching, you can’t just leave positions unfilled. Someone has to be physically present with the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know the history of all this, but maybe one of the transformations coming out of all this is really finding a way to recruit college grads into the profession. College grad underemployment is huge and getting worse. It's a 2:1 value proposition because it gives this group a profession to dedicate themselves and draws from a younger, healthier population.

"The unemployment rate for young college graduates exceeds that of the general population, and about 41 percent of recent college graduates -- and 33.8 percent of all college graduates -- are underemployed in that they are working in jobs that don't require a college degree, according to new data from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York."

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2020/02/18/41-recent-grads-work-jobs-not-requiring-degree

Well, more people are going to college assuming it’ll get them a good job... then they realize they’re competing with all the others who thought it’d be great to study the same thing too... I even know lawyers who can’t get their first job because there’s more applicants than openings in the state they took the test in.

When everyone goes to college and many jobs are being replaced with computers, we are going to see less college grads landing career jobs and ending up at Starbucks.

It’s sad.

Teaching could be a terrific career path for many in this population. Plus, it's not going to be automated in the near future unless teachers insist on putting themselves out of work by continuing to push distance learning (with end game just centralizing it all).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t a shortage. There are enough certified teachers to work but they are choosing not to. Of course, the school districts don’t care about why teachers leave.

If I had a rich husband, I’d quit too.

Any teacher I know who quit answers the question “what are you doing now?” with “I don’t need to work. Hubby/DH will pay for everything! He has a fabulous job and makes 5x more!” Well, basically that’s their response. It’s annoying when you aren’t part of the “rich hubby club.” But, good for them!

Whelp that’s a generalization. I left because I was able to turn my second job into something more lucrative than my first. There are a ton of former teachers who go into other industries. There are plenty of people in all industries who leave because a spouse makes more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know the history of all this, but maybe one of the transformations coming out of all this is really finding a way to recruit college grads into the profession. College grad underemployment is huge and getting worse. It's a 2:1 value proposition because it gives this group a profession to dedicate themselves and draws from a younger, healthier population.

"The unemployment rate for young college graduates exceeds that of the general population, and about 41 percent of recent college graduates -- and 33.8 percent of all college graduates -- are underemployed in that they are working in jobs that don't require a college degree, according to new data from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York."

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2020/02/18/41-recent-grads-work-jobs-not-requiring-degree

Well, more people are going to college assuming it’ll get them a good job... then they realize they’re competing with all the others who thought it’d be great to study the same thing too... I even know lawyers who can’t get their first job because there’s more applicants than openings in the state they took the test in.

When everyone goes to college and many jobs are being replaced with computers, we are going to see less college grads landing career jobs and ending up at Starbucks.

It’s sad.

Teaching could be a terrific career path for many in this population. Plus, it's not going to be automated in the near future unless teachers insist on putting themselves out of work by continuing to push distance learning (with end game just centralizing it all).

If someone went to school to be a lawyer, doctor, or something else that pays at least double what a teacher makes, and gets way more respect, I don’t think they’d want to be a teacher! Hell no. They can come on here and see all the engineers, doctors, and lawyers talking about how stupid they think teachers are and how much they don’t appreciate them. Most would probably rather get into a more respected, higher paying trade, or become a SAHM than become a teacher.

But, okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are a lot of applicants though. Reflect on that OP. Why didn't my principal, desperate to fill all the open slots, hire any of those applicants. Again, OP, think about what that means for a minute. I'll wait ...

Maybe next year is different. It's not an ideal world, and I'd take an less-than-ideal live instructor over distance learning every single time.

It’s not about having an “ideal” instructor. VDOE has strict guidelines for certification. FCPS has 90 unfilled vacancies throughout the 2018-2019 school year. It was worse in other places. I’m not a teacher any longer, but I still hold my certification. If I don’t keep up on my credits, it will expire, which is what I plan to allow it to do.

VDOE even extended licenses for 10 years (I think starting last year) likely to widen the applicant pool.

Again, what is past is past. Government made policy that resulted in massive unemployment, put small businesses out of business, and made us endure terrible distance learning. They could certainly look for ways to expand the teacher population further, particularly if that brings into scope a younger, healthier pool of candidates.

I don't think you've ever met a first year teacher! Or even a second or third year teacher! Those kids are out all the time because they are sick all the time. I get that you're trying to slam the veteran teachers but the reality is that the veteran teachers are the ones who are at school day-in and day-out. The youngsters? They're sick because of low immunity AND they find that work gets in the way of life so they take all 15 days. At my school I can't think of a single <5 year teacher who has tried to build up sick leave. They use it all. Sigh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t a shortage. There are enough certified teachers to work but they are choosing not to. Of course, the school districts don’t care about why teachers leave.

If I had a rich husband, I’d quit too.

Any teacher I know who quit answers the question “what are you doing now?” with “I don’t need to work. Hubby/DH will pay for everything! He has a fabulous job and makes 5x more!” Well, basically that’s their response. It’s annoying when you aren’t part of the “rich hubby club.” But, good for them!

Whelp that’s a generalization. I left because I was able to turn my second job into something more lucrative than my first. There are a ton of former teachers who go into other industries. There are plenty of people in all industries who leave because a spouse makes more.

Many are able to take the time off to focus on building a business or returning to colleges because their spouse financially supports them. I know a lot of single teacher that would love to go back to school for something else but they cannot afford to. There is a privilege that comes from being married called two incomes and the ability to join someone else’s health insurance...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know the history of all this, but maybe one of the transformations coming out of all this is really finding a way to recruit college grads into the profession. College grad underemployment is huge and getting worse. It's a 2:1 value proposition because it gives this group a profession to dedicate themselves and draws from a younger, healthier population.

"The unemployment rate for young college graduates exceeds that of the general population, and about 41 percent of recent college graduates -- and 33.8 percent of all college graduates -- are underemployed in that they are working in jobs that don't require a college degree, according to new data from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York."

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2020/02/18/41-recent-grads-work-jobs-not-requiring-degree

Well, more people are going to college assuming it’ll get them a good job... then they realize they’re competing with all the others who thought it’d be great to study the same thing too... I even know lawyers who can’t get their first job because there’s more applicants than openings in the state they took the test in.

When everyone goes to college and many jobs are being replaced with computers, we are going to see less college grads landing career jobs and ending up at Starbucks.

It’s sad.

Teaching could be a terrific career path for many in this population. Plus, it's not going to be automated in the near future unless teachers insist on putting themselves out of work by continuing to push distance learning (with end game just centralizing it all).

If someone went to school to be a lawyer, doctor, or something else that pays at least double what a teacher makes, and gets way more respect, I don’t think they’d want to be a teacher! Hell no. They can come on here and see all the engineers, doctors, and lawyers talking about how stupid they think teachers are and how much they don’t appreciate them. Most would probably rather get into a more respected, higher paying trade, or become a SAHM than become a teacher.

But, okay.

Your reading comprehension is poor. The PP used the legal field as an example, but then expanded the aperture of their commentary to college graduates in general and the risk of automation. Do Starbucks employees really make double what teachers make?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are a lot of applicants though. Reflect on that OP. Why didn't my principal, desperate to fill all the open slots, hire any of those applicants. Again, OP, think about what that means for a minute. I'll wait ...

Maybe next year is different. It's not an ideal world, and I'd take an less-than-ideal live instructor over distance learning every single time.

It’s not about having an “ideal” instructor. VDOE has strict guidelines for certification. FCPS has 90 unfilled vacancies throughout the 2018-2019 school year. It was worse in other places. I’m not a teacher any longer, but I still hold my certification. If I don’t keep up on my credits, it will expire, which is what I plan to allow it to do.

VDOE even extended licenses for 10 years (I think starting last year) likely to widen the applicant pool.

Again, what is past is past. Government made policy that resulted in massive unemployment, put small businesses out of business, and made us endure terrible distance learning. They could certainly look for ways to expand the teacher population further, particularly if that brings into scope a younger, healthier pool of candidates.

I don't think you've ever met a first year teacher! Or even a second or third year teacher! Those kids are out all the time because they are sick all the time. I get that you're trying to slam the veteran teachers but the reality is that the veteran teachers are the ones who are at school day-in and day-out. The youngsters? They're sick because of low immunity AND they find that work gets in the way of life so they take all 15 days. At my school I can't think of a single <5 year teacher who has tried to build up sick leave. They use it all. Sigh.

Okay, but isn't this all about living with COVID? The younger population may use up their sick leave, but they'll almost certainly bounce back from the virus. The point being that many in the older, experienced population don't want to take that risk, and thus they want us to continue to endure distance learning. So, the pool of potential teachers should be expanded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

NP Our school has many positions filled by newly graduated teachers. Many don't make it too long before they follow a specialty that leads them out of the classroom. What you have left are people older than 50 who are waiting for retirement. Everyone has figured out that if you just need a "salary", there are other paths available that will give a comparable salary with less stress. Some can see in college that teaching is not the profession it used to be and they go elsewhere.

Attitudes like this always p@#$-me-the-hell-off. I'm over 50 and a lot of my colleagues are over 50. I'll put our enthusiasm for teaching and caring for the student up against any 20-something. We also know what the hell we're doing. We learned on the job how to be good teachers in our 20's and now we're solid, veteran teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn’t a shortage. There are enough certified teachers to work but they are choosing not to. Of course, the school districts don’t care about why teachers leave.

If I had a rich husband, I’d quit too.

Any teacher I know who quit answers the question “what are you doing now?” with “I don’t need to work. Hubby/DH will pay for everything! He has a fabulous job and makes 5x more!” Well, basically that’s their response. It’s annoying when you aren’t part of the “rich hubby club.” But, good for them!

Whelp that’s a generalization. I left because I was able to turn my second job into something more lucrative than my first. There are a ton of former teachers who go into other industries. There are plenty of people in all industries who leave because a spouse makes more.

Many are able to take the time off to focus on building a business or returning to colleges because their spouse financially supports them. I know a lot of single teacher that would love to go back to school for something else but they cannot afford to. There is a privilege that comes from being married called two incomes and the ability to join someone else’s health insurance...

There are two incomes if both people are working. My spouse makes good money, but there’s no way I could have left teaching before having another job. My salary want much, but it allowed us to pay for daycare and not live paycheck to paycheck. Once we had kids, my husbands paycheck wasn’t covering it. This is a high cost area.

But plenty of teachers leave to do other things non education related that don’t require another specific degree. It’s not as impossible as people on here seem to think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

There are a lot of applicants though. Reflect on that OP. Why didn't my principal, desperate to fill all the open slots, hire any of those applicants. Again, OP, think about what that means for a minute. I'll wait ...

Maybe next year is different. It's not an ideal world, and I'd take an less-than-ideal live instructor over distance learning every single time.

It’s not about having an “ideal” instructor. VDOE has strict guidelines for certification. FCPS has 90 unfilled vacancies throughout the 2018-2019 school year. It was worse in other places. I’m not a teacher any longer, but I still hold my certification. If I don’t keep up on my credits, it will expire, which is what I plan to allow it to do.

VDOE even extended licenses for 10 years (I think starting last year) likely to widen the applicant pool.

Again, what is past is past. Government made policy that resulted in massive unemployment, put small businesses out of business, and made us endure terrible distance learning. They could certainly look for ways to expand the teacher population further, particularly if that brings into scope a younger, healthier pool of candidates.

I don't think you've ever met a first year teacher! Or even a second or third year teacher! Those kids are out all the time because they are sick all the time. I get that you're trying to slam the veteran teachers but the reality is that the veteran teachers are the ones who are at school day-in and day-out. The youngsters? They're sick because of low immunity AND they find that work gets in the way of life so they take all 15 days. At my school I can't think of a single <5 year teacher who has tried to build up sick leave. They use it all. Sigh.

Okay, but isn't this all about living with COVID? The younger population may use up their sick leave, but they'll almost certainly bounce back from the virus. The point being that many in the older, experienced population don't want to take that risk, and thus they want us to continue to endure distance learning. So, the pool of potential teachers should be expanded.

DP. You're missing the point PP. The "youngsters" don't have the stamina or interest. They want the big bucks and they aren't going to take the risk for the measly pittance of $40k. They definitely aren't going to put up with all the complaints and second guessing from parents like you. Why do you think so many leave the profession so quickly?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

NP Our school has many positions filled by newly graduated teachers. Many don't make it too long before they follow a specialty that leads them out of the classroom. What you have left are people older than 50 who are waiting for retirement. Everyone has figured out that if you just need a "salary", there are other paths available that will give a comparable salary with less stress. Some can see in college that teaching is not the profession it used to be and they go elsewhere.

Attitudes like this always p@#$-me-the-hell-off. I'm over 50 and a lot of my colleagues are over 50. I'll put our enthusiasm for teaching and caring for the student up against any 20-something. We also know what the hell we're doing. We learned on the job how to be good teachers in our 20's and now we're solid, veteran teachers.

This x1000.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know the history of all this, but maybe one of the transformations coming out of all this is really finding a way to recruit college grads into the profession. College grad underemployment is huge and getting worse. It's a 2:1 value proposition because it gives this group a profession to dedicate themselves and draws from a younger, healthier population.

"The unemployment rate for young college graduates exceeds that of the general population, and about 41 percent of recent college graduates -- and 33.8 percent of all college graduates -- are underemployed in that they are working in jobs that don't require a college degree, according to new data from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York."

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2020/02/18/41-recent-grads-work-jobs-not-requiring-degree

Well, more people are going to college assuming it’ll get them a good job... then they realize they’re competing with all the others who thought it’d be great to study the same thing too... I even know lawyers who can’t get their first job because there’s more applicants than openings in the state they took the test in.

When everyone goes to college and many jobs are being replaced with computers, we are going to see less college grads landing career jobs and ending up at Starbucks.

It’s sad.

Teaching could be a terrific career path for many in this population. Plus, it's not going to be automated in the near future unless teachers insist on putting themselves out of work by continuing to push distance learning (with end game just centralizing it all).

If someone went to school to be a lawyer, doctor, or something else that pays at least double what a teacher makes, and gets way more respect, I don’t think they’d want to be a teacher! Hell no. They can come on here and see all the engineers, doctors, and lawyers talking about how stupid they think teachers are and how much they don’t appreciate them. Most would probably rather get into a more respected, higher paying trade, or become a SAHM than become a teacher.

But, okay.

Your reading comprehension is poor. The PP used the legal field as an example, but then expanded the aperture of their commentary to college graduates in general and the risk of automation. Do Starbucks employees really make double what teachers make?

DP to snippy PP. Actually the ^^PP's reading comprehension is fine. The person to whom she is responding (you perhaps?) clearly writes about lawyers who can't find jobs. The barista at my local coffee shop is one of them. He subbed and will never apply to be a teacher. In fact every career switcher we've had at my school who was formerly a teacher either left mid-year or wasn't rehired. There is something incompatible between the types of people drawn to law and the skillset one needs for teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know the history of all this, but maybe one of the transformations coming out of all this is really finding a way to recruit college grads into the profession. College grad underemployment is huge and getting worse. It's a 2:1 value proposition because it gives this group a profession to dedicate themselves and draws from a younger, healthier population.

"The unemployment rate for young college graduates exceeds that of the general population, and about 41 percent of recent college graduates -- and 33.8 percent of all college graduates -- are underemployed in that they are working in jobs that don't require a college degree, according to new data from the Federal Reserve Bank of New York."

https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2020/02/18/41-recent-grads-work-jobs-not-requiring-degree

Well, more people are going to college assuming it’ll get them a good job... then they realize they’re competing with all the others who thought it’d be great to study the same thing too... I even know lawyers who can’t get their first job because there’s more applicants than openings in the state they took the test in.

When everyone goes to college and many jobs are being replaced with computers, we are going to see less college grads landing career jobs and ending up at Starbucks.

It’s sad.

Teaching could be a terrific career path for many in this population. Plus, it's not going to be automated in the near future unless teachers insist on putting themselves out of work by continuing to push distance learning (with end game just centralizing it all).

If someone went to school to be a lawyer, doctor, or something else that pays at least double what a teacher makes, and gets way more respect, I don’t think they’d want to be a teacher! Hell no. They can come on here and see all the engineers, doctors, and lawyers talking about how stupid they think teachers are and how much they don’t appreciate them. Most would probably rather get into a more respected, higher paying trade, or become a SAHM than become a teacher.

But, okay.

Your reading comprehension is poor. The PP used the legal field as an example, but then expanded the aperture of their commentary to college graduates in general and the risk of automation. Do Starbucks employees really make double what teachers make?

DP to snippy PP. Actually the ^^PP's reading comprehension is fine. The person to whom she is responding (you perhaps?) clearly writes about lawyers who can't find jobs. The barista at my local coffee shop is one of them. He subbed and will never apply to be a teacher. In fact every career switcher we've had at my school who was formerly a teacher either left mid-year or wasn't rehired. There is something incompatible between the types of people drawn to law and the skillset one needs for teaching.

Your reading comprehension is also poor, and you got the benefit of a second look. The poster used an example of lawyers, then spoke to competition with other graduates for limited jobs. This is a real thing as you've pointed out. The poster then extrapolated to "everyone attending college" and facing off against the risk of automation. There were 3.9 million college graduates in 2019-20, most of whom weren't lawyers, doctors, or other technical trades. There very well may be many great teaching candidates in that population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just go to the Employment section of the FCPS website. You will see the pages and pages of jobs. They are in all areas and at all grade levels.

I paid attention for the first time this school year and noticed that there were pages of jobs available all year long. Usually positions are filled by Sept 1 or August at the latest. That wasn’t the case this year.

I spoke with someone in leadership about it once during casual conversation and they confirmed that yes the shortage is real.

I don’t see this at a good schools. Our vacancies are always filled immediately, with the exception of sped assistants because who wants to put up with that for $17/hour? They don’t last long when they can make the same in Kindergarten or the library.

You're not at all "good schools".

Just look at the vacancy list. And if you remember, continue to check it throughout the year. There will be vacancies at the "good schools".

A great friend works at what is unarguably considered a good school. The turnover has been insane--for different reasons. Still there are vacancies there every school year throughout the year.