Nursing facility wants FIL out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can they restrain him-especially at night when they have fewer staff members to keep an eye out? There are chemical and physical restraints. Ask about that as a temporary means to get everyone through until the memory care unit opens.

No that can’t be done. What they can do is use an ankle monitor.

[Anonymous]

I would try medication. Just know even when you find the right miz, sometimes a month later it needs to be alters. It also increases risks of falls sometimes, but worth it if there is a aggression.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like the daytime is better than the nighttime and this can be typical for people in your father's position.

This would be asking a lot of you, OP, but would the facility allow you and/or others to stay the night (not in a bed) in your father's room as an unpaid aide to monitor him. If there were 2 or 3 of you then you could rotate. One week on, one week off, etc.

If you work, then you might need to consider using FMLA until you are able to get him permanently into a secure unit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can they restrain him-especially at night when they have fewer staff members to keep an eye out? There are chemical and physical restraints. Ask about that as a temporary means to get everyone through until the memory care unit opens.

No that can’t be done. What they can do is use an ankle monitor.

Physical restraints are generally illegal in most states due to death side effects. I can't speak to chemical restraints. In my state virtually no nursing homes use physical restraints anymore. If you want to use them you almost have to have constant staff monitoring. Nursing homes are too understaffed to do this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like the daytime is better than the nighttime and this can be typical for people in your father's position.

This would be asking a lot of you, OP, but would the facility allow you and/or others to stay the night (not in a bed) in your father's room as an unpaid aide to monitor him. If there were 2 or 3 of you then you could rotate. One week on, one week off, etc.

If you work, then you might need to consider using FMLA until you are able to get him permanently into a secure unit.

This is a good suggestion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you tell them he might try to escape when you were discussing whether they could handle him? I think it’s pretty crappy to expect them to suck it up if they genuinely had no idea what they were really agreeing to. They might simply not have the staffing or the environment to handle that.

But overall, I wouldn’t want my family somewhere that people are saying they can’t handle them. Same for kids.

What nursing facility has no idea that one of their new patients might try to escape?! It's textbook elder care. It's literally part of the service they provide.

It happens all the time. Limited staff, residents just walk out even on locked wards.

Many of the residents are pretty smart and memorize the codes punched in by workers to exit locked facilites.

Most of the residents have impaired memory and cannot remember the codes Some don't use codes and use key fobs. Most walk out when its left open by staff or a family member.

I visit a memory unit frequently. Believe me, the lawyers, doctors, and professors who are memory unit residents watch the key code pad and can duplicate the code to unlock the doors. Most people in memory units can walk well and talk well. Memory residents that are bedbound are in the general population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you tell them he might try to escape when you were discussing whether they could handle him? I think it’s pretty crappy to expect them to suck it up if they genuinely had no idea what they were really agreeing to. They might simply not have the staffing or the environment to handle that.

But overall, I wouldn’t want my family somewhere that people are saying they can’t handle them. Same for kids.

What nursing facility has no idea that one of their new patients might try to escape?! It's textbook elder care. It's literally part of the service they provide.

It happens all the time. Limited staff, residents just walk out even on locked wards.

Many of the residents are pretty smart and memorize the codes punched in by workers to exit locked facilites.

Most of the residents have impaired memory and cannot remember the codes Some don't use codes and use key fobs. Most walk out when its left open by staff or a family member.

I visit a memory unit frequently. Believe me, the lawyers, doctors, and professors who are memory unit residents watch the key code pad and can duplicate the code to unlock the doors. Most people in memory units can walk well and talk well. Memory residents that are bedbound are in the general population.

Not sure what memory unit you are at but the majority in ours didn't walk or talk. They absolutely were not in the general population as it was basically the ward that was hidden that they didn't want anyone to see. The one doctor resident was nuts. He couldn't remember anything including his name.

[Anonymous]

Around the world, children take in their parents in their old age. Why is that not an option?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Around the world, children take in their parents in their old age. Why is that not an option?

Dementia can be tricky. OP's FIL has been violent and he is an escape artist. Both of those add factors another dimension to his care.

My FIL lives with us. He has dementia and he is an escape artist but he is not violent. Regardless, it has cost us much more than most people have to 1) escape proof the house, and 2) provide adequate staff to ensure that he is safe and happy. At this point we have a day-time caregiver and a night nurse both working 8.5 hour shifts with my husband and myself covering the gaps. It takes 3 full-time staff to cover a week of 7 days (2 shifts a day x 7). We are considering going to full around-the-clock coverage with 4 full-time staff, and my husband and I would cover the remaining "shift." This is in addition to therapists whom we have coming to the house to provide music therapy, art therapy, physical therapy, etc. Most people don't have the same kind of resources available to them to make this level of in-home support work.

It would be much better (safer) for the FIL to be in a place that is fully equipped to meet his needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Around the world, children take in their parents in their old age. Why is that not an option?

Have you ever lived with and provided care for someone with violent dementia?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Around the world, children take in their parents in their old age. Why is that not an option?

Have you ever lived with and provided care for someone with violent dementia?

When I was a teenager, my mother kept my father with dementia after several strokes at home (when I was born, he was 65 and she was 45). Although he'd been a generous, kind, loving, and gentle man, at that point he was violent and abusive. He would hit me in the chest or back, leaving bruises, or leaving bruises where he grabbed and twisted my arm.

Going into our home was like being chained to someone to be used as a punching bag. It wasn't rational, and you couldn't predict or talk him out of his rages. It was illness, and it was absolutely awful to be told he loved me and I had to help take care of my father. I slept outside in the yard when it was warm enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Around the world, children take in their parents in their old age. Why is that not an option?

Have you ever lived with and provided care for someone with violent dementia?

When I was a teenager, my mother kept my father with dementia after several strokes at home (when I was born, he was 65 and she was 45). Although he'd been a generous, kind, loving, and gentle man, at that point he was violent and abusive. He would hit me in the chest or back, leaving bruises, or leaving bruises where he grabbed and twisted my arm.

Going into our home was like being chained to someone to be used as a punching bag. It wasn't rational, and you couldn't predict or talk him out of his rages. It was illness, and it was absolutely awful to be told he loved me and I had to help take care of my father. I slept outside in the yard when it was warm enough.

That is terrible and I am sorry you endured that. Are you the pp at 22:07 that asked why OP couldn't take the FIL in like they do around the world?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Around the world, children take in their parents in their old age. Why is that not an option?

Around the world, people don't live as long and/or there's super cheap help to be hired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Around the world, children take in their parents in their old age. Why is that not an option?

Have you ever lived with and provided care for someone with violent dementia?

When I was a teenager, my mother kept my father with dementia after several strokes at home (when I was born, he was 65 and she was 45). Although he'd been a generous, kind, loving, and gentle man, at that point he was violent and abusive. He would hit me in the chest or back, leaving bruises, or leaving bruises where he grabbed and twisted my arm.

Going into our home was like being chained to someone to be used as a punching bag. It wasn't rational, and you couldn't predict or talk him out of his rages. It was illness, and it was absolutely awful to be told he loved me and I had to help take care of my father. I slept outside in the yard when it was warm enough.

That is terrible and I am sorry you endured that. Are you the pp at 22:07 that asked why OP couldn't take the FIL in like they do around the world?

I'm not sure I understand your question, but I was agreeing with the sentiment that people who haven't lived with someone with violent dementia likely don't understand the full range of experience -- at least, I hope they wouldn't expect someone to voluntarily walk into that over and over.

This is my second post on this thread. My first began with "When I was a teenager ..."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Around the world, children take in their parents in their old age. Why is that not an option?

Have you ever lived with and provided care for someone with violent dementia?

When I was a teenager, my mother kept my father with dementia after several strokes at home (when I was born, he was 65 and she was 45). Although he'd been a generous, kind, loving, and gentle man, at that point he was violent and abusive. He would hit me in the chest or back, leaving bruises, or leaving bruises where he grabbed and twisted my arm.

Going into our home was like being chained to someone to be used as a punching bag. It wasn't rational, and you couldn't predict or talk him out of his rages. It was illness, and it was absolutely awful to be told he loved me and I had to help take care of my father. I slept outside in the yard when it was warm enough.

That is terrible and I am sorry you endured that. Are you the pp at 22:07 that asked why OP couldn't take the FIL in like they do around the world?

I'm not sure I understand your question, but I was agreeing with the sentiment that people who haven't lived with someone with violent dementia likely don't understand the full range of experience -- at least, I hope they wouldn't expect someone to voluntarily walk into that over and over.

This is my second post on this thread. My first began with "When I was a teenager ..."

PP you are responding to here.

Ok. Yes, I completely agree with you.