Is going down with the ship part of marriage vows?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you abandon your child if they had the same problem? Family is family. You do what you can, but protect yourself and others from abuse and violence.

Agreed.

I would only divorce for abuse or active addiction. Maybe adultery, but even that is something from which you can recover.

Actually the advice to many parents of children with addiction or severe mental health disorders is to stop enabling it if the child isn’t getting treatment. Love them from afar, but don’t allow them into your house, don’t give them money, don’t let them weave you into your situation because that’s enabling them to keep on their current path vs be forced to address it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you abandon your child if they had the same problem? Family is family. You do what you can, but protect yourself and others from abuse and violence.

Agreed.

I would only divorce for abuse or active addiction. Maybe adultery, but even that is something from which you can recover.

Why though if my staying with someone isn’t helping anyone and is hurting me? Let’s say I have a severely depressed spouse. Every weekend is miserable, his misery sucks any happiness out of our home, and it’s been going on for years and he’s either unable or unwilling to tackle it. He’s miserable whether I’m there or not. Why should someone stay in that situation sacrificing any joy or happiness in their home life? Who is that serving?

The same could be said of someone with chronic pain or chronic fatigue or any illness that makes people feel miserable most of the time. It is a slippery slope. I think chasing happiness can lead to a grass isn't greener. You leave him only to find that after the excitement of the next guy wears off, it isn't all joy and happiness either.

[Anonymous]

I think it depends on whether they are trying to help themselves and make things better. If they've pretty much given up and don't seem able to come back, it might be better just to bail. Especially if they are taking it out on you when you try to help.

Obviously there are complicating factors like finances and whether there are kids in the mix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would you abandon your child if they had the same problem? Family is family. You do what you can, but protect yourself and others from abuse and violence.

This isn’t a fair comparison. We remain loyal to our children because they can neither care for themselves financially and legally, but their brains are not developed enough to manage their own lives. When children act out emotionally, it is rarely to manipulate and usually out of a genuine need they are incapable of meeting on their own. As well, caring for a neurotypical child is a time-limited thing. (And many people do walk away from adult children who cannot manage addiction or mental health issues while being respectful of their family members.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s your opinion? If your spouse is struggling (mental / physical / behavioral health issue) do you view trying to stand by / support them now matter the cost to your well-being part of your vows? Or do you walk away because your well being trumps vows?

I’m not currently in this situation - just wondering what people think

"'Til death do us part."
"As long as you both shall live."

Sounds pretty straightforward to me. Questions like OP's are exactly why marriage has become increasingly disposable, and why it is essentially a failed instrument of social control. Once you're married, you no longer exist, and so your needs/desires/well-being no longer matter, except insofar as they are required to sustain the marriage.

Don't make promises you can't keep. And for the vast majority of people, that means DON'T MAKE PROMISES. There are no offramps or loopholes in marriage vows. They are overly broad by design. And in the end, it's about entering into a contract based on wildly incomplete information and bound together by intangbiles. Yes, good luck with that.

Marriage is already disposable. It always has been. At least the wife portion of the marriage has always been disposable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If my husband was doing his best to correct whatever the situation was, I would stay. If he was in denial, or refusing to do some thing to make the situation better, I would probably leave.

We went through a very rough patch where my husband was out of work for almost 4 years. The reason I didn’t leave is because he worked every single day at getting a job. He wasn’t sitting around watching TV, he was on the phone and doing his best. It was a long, hard road but I really respected how hard he tried. He’s been gainfully employed for several years now.

This.
If he wasn't able to walk anymore and ended up wheelchair bound, then I would stay with him. I would help him get to doctor's appointments, make the house wheelchair accessible, install railings and chair lifts and all if it. However, if he wasn't able to walk anymore, and was dragging himself around on the floor denying that anything was wrong, then I would go.

I know that the above sounds silly, but there is a mental health equivalent to this that is less obvious to outsiders, but just as ridiculous to the people living through it.

You have zero understanding of mental illness. It is not at all like your example. Mental illness impacts on cognitive functioning, thought content and process, perceptions, insight, judgment, decision making, motivation and many other mind based functions.

So what makes it not like my example?
Those all sound like things you need to function in daily life.

How many people who can't walk anymore stay in denial just life in the floor denying anything is wrong: zero.
How many people with mental illness struggle to engage fully in treatment (particularly when treatment often doesn't not show results) due to the nature of their condition? The majority

Lying on the floor while paralyzed pretending nothing is wrong has no parallel to struggling to get out of bed when dealing with a catatonic depression or an inability to identity signs of psychosis in oneself. Mental illness actually has a word for when an inability to understand you are unwell is part of the illness.

When we talk about anosognosia in mental illness, we mean that someone is unaware of their own mental health condition or that they can't perceive their condition accurately. Anosognosia is a common symptom of certain mental illnesses, perhaps the most difficult to understand for those who have never experienced it.

I am not saying that it is the same to the person experiencing it. I am saying that it is the same to the other person living with it.

But we aren’t talking about anosognosia. We are talking about denial. I am not talking about someone paralyzed from a stroke who thinks there is a dead body in the room because they don’t recognize the legs as their own. And we are not talking about a spouse with Alzheimer’s disease who doesn’t know they have it.
We are talking about the addict who refuses to see that he has a problem. Or the diabetic who won’t take his insulin, or the man with chronic migraines who refuses to take medication for it or get therapy on how to handle it, so the whole house has to talk around in silence, or the lady with PTSD who says that it’s not a problem, it’s kusg that sometimes she gets jumpy and starts throwing things.

You DO have an obligation to stay with someone who is actively seeking treatment. You do NOT have an obligation to stay with someone who continues to deny there is a problem.

And you can say that I don’t understand the person with the mental illness, but I want to counter that many people with mental and physical illnesses get tunnel vision and do not see how their actions affect everyone in the family.

[Anonymous]

I'm in the middle of deciding this right now. My DH has never been diagnosed and never will be, as he refuses to see a therapist or acknowledge that he plays any part in the dreadful experience that is being in our home. In a nutshell, he has not worked in 7 years and we live solely off my income (while his savings continue to accumulate greatly). He moves between two different chairs in the house throughout the day and that's about it. In between, he barely acknowledges that the kids and I are there, but when he does acknowledge our DD or me, it's typically to tell us what horrible people we are. He lashed out at me (just verbally--but really horribly), for honestly no reason, so badly last night that both kids (teenagers) were in tears and begging me to divorce him. I have no money and hate living in this area, so don't even know where to begin in this process. But am I really supposed to stay true to my vows with a man like this? I believe he may be on the spectrum and/or narcissistic personality disorder.

[Anonymous]

If you have kids, there’s no option - you don’t go down with the ship, you get into the lifeboat. If you’re the only functional parent, then you’re their only parent and you need to make sure that both you and them are safe. And I don’t just mean physically safe.

As for what going down with the ship looks like, I was so stressed out by my ex’s mental illness (including years of unemployment, anger issues, etc.) that I felt like I would get cancer or some other disease. Add to that behaviors that could cause us financial and legal ruin, like drunk driving and secret credit card debt - the ship was going down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Someone unwilling to get get help who is negatively impacting the mental health of the household is not worth saving the relationship. I would not allow my spouse to affect the well-being of myself or my children.

That's a low bar. So many things can impact the well-being of yourself or your children. Going through difficult times and learning to deal with negative events and emotions is part of life and necessary to build resilience and actually have well-being. To run any time there is something difficult because it will affect the well-being of your children doesn't make sense. That act of leaving would affect their well-being.

In my extended family, there have been spouses with autoimmune disorders, spouses in accidents, spouses with cancer, spouses with depression, spouses with neurological conditions, and spouses with life altering injuries. All of these have definitely impacted the mental health and well-being of everyone in each family. it has also taught them things, brought them together and made them stronger. To think you would just bail and deprive your child of a parent and a stable home because they are impacted is so unhealthy. At some point your kids are going to have to learn how to cope with adversity and also then to deal with the abandonment of a parent.

How nice for you that even though your extended family has dealt with challenges, those challenges have not resulted in a home environment that is unhealthy. How nice for you that partners of those afflicted have not had their own mental health jeopardized/eroded because of those illnesses. How nice for you that they didn't have to divorce in order to provide their children with a stable, healthy home.

My XDH refused to accept treatment for his depression. He'd been on medication most of our relationship and, although it could be challenging, I was willing to stay with him because he worked to control. There came a time when he stopped making an effort, refused my assistance, was unemployed for 2 years and was unhealthy to be around - not to mention we were facing financial ruin because of his unemployment and uncontrolled spending. I developed depression myself because of it. It was at that point that I realized living with my XDH was too harmful to me and our kids.

I modeled the behavior I hope my kids would emulate in a similar situation. Love isn't enough. Do not jeopardize your well being or the well being of your children by clinging to relationship that is harmful. My XDH is not a bad person. I have no hate/dislike for him. My only regret is that I didn't end the relationship before my well being was so profoundly impacted - and not for the better. Had I remained with him, my kids and I would be suffering as much as he. No vow can require that kind of sacrifice.

[Anonymous]

I thought there was a sickness and health component of the vows. What does a sinking ship really mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought there was a sickness and health component of the vows. What does a sinking ship really mean?

If the other person takes deliberate steps to be unmarried, in sickness and in health doesn’t apply. A marriage license in not a suicide pact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I thought there was a sickness and health component of the vows. What does a sinking ship really mean?

Do you think everyone here did the Christian vows you are thinking of?

[Anonymous]

OP: Addiction = Divorce. As does Adultery. As does Abuse.

The 3 A's means that person has already torn-up their spouse card

[Anonymous]

PP again, btw IF they rehabilitate themselves, you're free to marry them again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm in the middle of deciding this right now. My DH has never been diagnosed and never will be, as he refuses to see a therapist or acknowledge that he plays any part in the dreadful experience that is being in our home. In a nutshell, he has not worked in 7 years and we live solely off my income (while his savings continue to accumulate greatly). He moves between two different chairs in the house throughout the day and that's about it. In between, he barely acknowledges that the kids and I are there, but when he does acknowledge our DD or me, it's typically to tell us what horrible people we are. He lashed out at me (just verbally--but really horribly), for honestly no reason, so badly last night that both kids (teenagers) were in tears and begging me to divorce him. I have no money and hate living in this area, so don't even know where to begin in this process. But am I really supposed to stay true to my vows with a man like this? I believe he may be on the spectrum and/or narcissistic personality disorder.

I’m so sorry. Do you have family that you can stay with for a little while?