Would you cut off an evil, toxic mother?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fast forward thirty years or so. Your children determined that you made mistakes that were unforgivable, you were not supportive enough and therefore you were flat-out evil. Thus they were encouraged to end their relationship with you by a professional, who never heard your side of the story.

How would you feel?

Look, you are a parent. You have made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes. Do you want your kids to harbor and remember only the negative you've inadvertently done to them? Do you want your future relationships with them dependent upon a third-party professional (who has billing hour requirements)?

FWIW, my mother at points in her life called me lazy (when I didn't clean my room) and called me stupid (when I did something dangerous and scared the heck out of her, like hitchhiking) called me mean (when I neglected to care for the dog as I was supposed to) etc.

Was it hurtful that she said those things to me? Yes - but I also learned that she was right about my actions. I know that my mother didn't have the easiest life nor the best parents and she tried to raise me the best way she knew how. That included not being the best at communicating, so yep, she hurt my feelings. But that got my attention and made me correct my actions. So in that respect, she was successful.

My mother made mistakes, sure. But when I became an adult I was able to forgive her and see things differently from her perspective. That allowed me to let go of some of her behaviors and not take them to heart because I knew she didn't mean it.

Using the word "evil" is rather strong based on the fact the only behaviors you identified were verbal. Yes, verbal abuse is damaging. But I personally reserve the word "evil" for people like murderous psychopaths, not a mother who made mistakes.

This makes me think you are overinflating your mother's bad actions.

I find it hard to believe that your mother really thought you were stupid if she paid for college for you. I can only imagine the financial and other sacrifices she made to do so as a single parent.

As my mother aged, our relationship became much better and she was able to finally express herself in a much more emotionally connective and affectionate way.

I wouldn't have missed those last years with my mother for anything.

NP. Are you really comparing your mother calling you mean for neglecting your dog to a mother refusing to hug a child or show physical affection?

I consider evil to be abstract and relative, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to lump people who abuse children into the evil category. I don’t think a person has to murder to be evil.

I also think there’s a big difference between making mistakes and being abusive. It sounds like your mom called you out on your bs as a teen. That’s not abuse. Harsh language on occasion could be a mistake, but you’re conceding to everything your mom said so it doesn’t even sound like a mistake. If OP becomes abusive to her kids, to the point where they need extensive therapy, and pretty much all interactions with her leave the kids feeling worse than they were before, then she probably deserves to be cut off. But caring people who make mistakes don’t do that to others. Abusers do. Not every bad parent has a heart of gold and they simply don’t know better but they try so hard. Some people just suck. No need to apologize for them or keep taking their abuse. It’s okay to drop the rope.

Weirdly enough, I can deal with harsh words better than I could deal with manipulation and lies. A person can say (and mean) harsh things when they are upset. That happens and at least when they're yelling at you, you know why they're mad and where you stand at the moment with them.

I think the worst are the passive aggressive people who kill you with kindness while stabbing you in the back. Trust is a big thing with me. If I can't trust you I can't abide by you. Period.

Just pointing out that there is more than one way to be "toxic and evil". If my parent grouses at me, I'll probably turn the other cheek. If they mislead me or attempt to manipulate me or try to undermine me - I back away.

That’s kind of the point. Occasional mistakes don’t warrant cutting someone off. Continued abuse does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said they were called lazy and stupid but diidn't cut off their mom -- if you don't feel the evil and hatred coming from your mother, then you don't have the kind of mom who says you're lazy and stupid because they are trying to destroy you. Some mothers want to destroy their children. Who knows why. They are in a battle with them and they want to show the world they are right -- see what a shit they are? Some women take their anger out of their children physically, some verbally. Again, that's not the same as a parent getting to the end of their rope about a kid not taking care of their dog. It's more than that.

If you can't see that, then don't contribute. Some adults are mean, and they have their kids at their mercy. Yes, there are evil people in the world. Some are parents. If you were a child of someone like that, you could feel it, too. You weren't. You are not better than OP for not becoming estranged from a parent who was NOT THE SAME to you as OP's mother was to her.

Sounds like a bit of fear in your post, PP, that your own child will hold some things against you....

+10000
Signed, adult survivor of abusive textbook narc personality disorder + actual dillusions-suffering mom who would absolutely throw me under any bus; who will stab me in the back and call it love; who sends me hallmark birthday cards with scrawled personal messages inside that say I'm a horrible person who deserves unhappiness; who said she'd only attend my wedding if I paid her a bribe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fast forward thirty years or so. Your children determined that you made mistakes that were unforgivable, you were not supportive enough and therefore you were flat-out evil. Thus they were encouraged to end their relationship with you by a professional, who never heard your side of the story.

How would you feel?

Look, you are a parent. You have made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes. Do you want your kids to harbor and remember only the negative you've inadvertently done to them? Do you want your future relationships with them dependent upon a third-party professional (who has billing hour requirements)?

FWIW, my mother at points in her life called me lazy (when I didn't clean my room) and called me stupid (when I did something dangerous and scared the heck out of her, like hitchhiking) called me mean (when I neglected to care for the dog as I was supposed to) etc.

Was it hurtful that she said those things to me? Yes - but I also learned that she was right about my actions. I know that my mother didn't have the easiest life nor the best parents and she tried to raise me the best way she knew how. That included not being the best at communicating, so yep, she hurt my feelings. But that got my attention and made me correct my actions. So in that respect, she was successful.

My mother made mistakes, sure. But when I became an adult I was able to forgive her and see things differently from her perspective. That allowed me to let go of some of her behaviors and not take them to heart because I knew she didn't mean it.

Using the word "evil" is rather strong based on the fact the only behaviors you identified were verbal. Yes, verbal abuse is damaging. But I personally reserve the word "evil" for people like murderous psychopaths, not a mother who made mistakes.

This makes me think you are overinflating your mother's bad actions.

I find it hard to believe that your mother really thought you were stupid if she paid for college for you. I can only imagine the financial and other sacrifices she made to do so as a single parent.

As my mother aged, our relationship became much better and she was able to finally express herself in a much more emotionally connective and affectionate way.

I wouldn't have missed those last years with my mother for anything.

NP. Are you really comparing your mother calling you mean for neglecting your dog to a mother refusing to hug a child or show physical affection?

I consider evil to be abstract and relative, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to lump people who abuse children into the evil category. I don’t think a person has to murder to be evil.

I also think there’s a big difference between making mistakes and being abusive. It sounds like your mom called you out on your bs as a teen. That’s not abuse. Harsh language on occasion could be a mistake, but you’re conceding to everything your mom said so it doesn’t even sound like a mistake. If OP becomes abusive to her kids, to the point where they need extensive therapy, and pretty much all interactions with her leave the kids feeling worse than they were before, then she probably deserves to be cut off. But caring people who make mistakes don’t do that to others. Abusers do. Not every bad parent has a heart of gold and they simply don’t know better but they try so hard. Some people just suck. No need to apologize for them or keep taking their abuse. It’s okay to drop the rope.

Weirdly enough, I can deal with harsh words better than I could deal with manipulation and lies. A person can say (and mean) harsh things when they are upset. That happens and at least when they're yelling at you, you know why they're mad and where you stand at the moment with them.

I think the worst are the passive aggressive people who kill you with kindness while stabbing you in the back. Trust is a big thing with me. If I can't trust you I can't abide by you. Period.

Just pointing out that there is more than one way to be "toxic and evil". If my parent grouses at me, I'll probably turn the other cheek. If they mislead me or attempt to manipulate me or try to undermine me - I back away.

That’s kind of the point. Occasional mistakes don’t warrant cutting someone off. Continued abuse does.

Agreed

[Anonymous]

Cut her off, OP. She was abusive and it sounds like she still is. Just because she gave you material care, after bringing you into the world through no agency of your own, it doesn’t mean she bought the right to mistreat you as an adult. If you can’t bring yourself to cut her off, reduce significantly the amount of time you’re with her. And push back if she treats you badly. Speak up for yourself and for the little girl you were.

[Anonymous]

So she didn't beat you? Physically hurt you? She never, ever touched you? Is she from a culture that might not be as physically expressive? I am from former Yugoslavia, and physical touch, other than cheek kissing was not the norm. I can't remember my mom holding me. She too is critical, and even told me that if something is fine, no need to talk about it, her duty is to fix the "wrong." So, she is a very negative person. My dad was not.
But, she also worked her butt off so sister and I would have a house and food, and clothes. She also ate cheap veggies and chicken bones, so we could eat the meat. When I started to date, she explained to my dad that he better get on board or lose a daughter. She gave us money for the movies and let us go party and even have parties at home, when she would convince dad to spend the night at the village house, so kids can be kids. She and dad gave dh and me money for furniture when we bought our first house. Even in the last 10 years, she took me shopping and bought us new couches when we couldn't afford it. And, all of this came with a dose of negativity, not about the money, she has never held the money over our heads, but with how we are raising the kids, cleaning, etc...
What I am trying to say is that people in their 20, and 30 see only the bad things, it is like there is a fog over anything good with our parents. I think it might be some mechanism of synapses firing the same way as in our childhood when we were trying to tear down out parents to become independent. It is only in my 40s that I am able to take her as she is, cut down her negative talk and take the positives from our relationship.
What I am trying to say is that perhaps you have blinders about the good things she did? Or she could be a monster from hell, all I have to go is my experience and those few sentences you wrote. So, take this at face value and do what you think is best.

[Anonymous]

Cut her off for now so you can heal. Later you might be able to make a trip a year but not if you haven't healed yet. All this is to say that cutting her off now doesn't necessarily mean you will have cut her off forever. But listen to yourself first!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So she didn't beat you? Physically hurt you? She never, ever touched you? Is she from a culture that might not be as physically expressive? I am from former Yugoslavia, and physical touch, other than cheek kissing was not the norm. I can't remember my mom holding me. She too is critical, and even told me that if something is fine, no need to talk about it, her duty is to fix the "wrong." So, she is a very negative person. My dad was not.
But, she also worked her butt off so sister and I would have a house and food, and clothes. She also ate cheap veggies and chicken bones, so we could eat the meat. When I started to date, she explained to my dad that he better get on board or lose a daughter. She gave us money for the movies and let us go party and even have parties at home, when she would convince dad to spend the night at the village house, so kids can be kids. She and dad gave dh and me money for furniture when we bought our first house. Even in the last 10 years, she took me shopping and bought us new couches when we couldn't afford it. And, all of this came with a dose of negativity, not about the money, she has never held the money over our heads, but with how we are raising the kids, cleaning, etc...
What I am trying to say is that people in their 20, and 30 see only the bad things, it is like there is a fog over anything good with our parents. I think it might be some mechanism of synapses firing the same way as in our childhood when we were trying to tear down out parents to become independent. It is only in my 40s that I am able to take her as she is, cut down her negative talk and take the positives from our relationship.
What I am trying to say is that perhaps you have blinders about the good things she did? Or she could be a monster from hell, all I have to go is my experience and those few sentences you wrote. So, take this at face value and do what you think is best.

These are great observations. Good post!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cut her off for now so you can heal. Later you might be able to make a trip a year but not if you haven't healed yet. All this is to say that cutting her off now doesn't necessarily mean you will have cut her off forever. But listen to yourself first!

You can't assume that she'll be around forever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, do it and wait until your kids return the favor later.

I cut my mother off after she told me it was my daughter's fault for being molested by my mother's boyfriend because she came on to him. My daughter was 7. I certainly hope that if I ever treat my daughter the way my mother treated me that my daughter drops me a lot sooner in life. It took me 45 years. So far, she hasn't, because I'm not a narcissistic bitch like my mother.

Absolutely cut your toxic mother out of your life, OP. I still feel a little sad sometimes, but it's because I didn't have a good mother, not because I regret not talking to that piece of trash.

She didn't do anything special by giving birth to you (all mammals can accomplish that) and you don't owe her a thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cut her off for now so you can heal. Later you might be able to make a trip a year but not if you haven't healed yet. All this is to say that cutting her off now doesn't necessarily mean you will have cut her off forever. But listen to yourself first!

You can't assume that she'll be around forever.

And not much will be lost if that's the case; the only thing OP now gets from her is agony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So she didn't beat you? Physically hurt you? She never, ever touched you? Is she from a culture that might not be as physically expressive? I am from former Yugoslavia, and physical touch, other than cheek kissing was not the norm. I can't remember my mom holding me. She too is critical, and even told me that if something is fine, no need to talk about it, her duty is to fix the "wrong." So, she is a very negative person. My dad was not.
But, she also worked her butt off so sister and I would have a house and food, and clothes. She also ate cheap veggies and chicken bones, so we could eat the meat. When I started to date, she explained to my dad that he better get on board or lose a daughter. She gave us money for the movies and let us go party and even have parties at home, when she would convince dad to spend the night at the village house, so kids can be kids. She and dad gave dh and me money for furniture when we bought our first house. Even in the last 10 years, she took me shopping and bought us new couches when we couldn't afford it. And, all of this came with a dose of negativity, not about the money, she has never held the money over our heads, but with how we are raising the kids, cleaning, etc...
What I am trying to say is that people in their 20, and 30 see only the bad things, it is like there is a fog over anything good with our parents. I think it might be some mechanism of synapses firing the same way as in our childhood when we were trying to tear down out parents to become independent. It is only in my 40s that I am able to take her as she is, cut down her negative talk and take the positives from our relationship.
What I am trying to say is that perhaps you have blinders about the good things she did? Or she could be a monster from hell, all I have to go is my experience and those few sentences you wrote. So, take this at face value and do what you think is best.

These are great observations. Good post!

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Your mother sounds like my husband. My mother was like that, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, do it and wait until your kids return the favor later.

I cut my mother off after she told me it was my daughter's fault for being molested by my mother's boyfriend because she came on to him. My daughter was 7. I certainly hope that if I ever treat my daughter the way my mother treated me that my daughter drops me a lot sooner in life. It took me 45 years. So far, she hasn't, because I'm not a narcissistic bitch like my mother.

Absolutely cut your toxic mother out of your life, OP. I still feel a little sad sometimes, but it's because I didn't have a good mother, not because I regret not talking to that piece of trash.

She didn't do anything special by giving birth to you (all mammals can accomplish that) and you don't owe her a thing.

I'm sorry. But she really gave you no choice...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fast forward thirty years or so. Your children determined that you made mistakes that were unforgivable, you were not supportive enough and therefore you were flat-out evil. Thus they were encouraged to end their relationship with you by a professional, who never heard your side of the story.

How would you feel?

Look, you are a parent. You have made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes. Do you want your kids to harbor and remember only the negative you've inadvertently done to them? Do you want your future relationships with them dependent upon a third-party professional (who has billing hour requirements)?

FWIW, my mother at points in her life called me lazy (when I didn't clean my room) and called me stupid (when I did something dangerous and scared the heck out of her, like hitchhiking) called me mean (when I neglected to care for the dog as I was supposed to) etc.

Was it hurtful that she said those things to me? Yes - but I also learned that she was right about my actions. I know that my mother didn't have the easiest life nor the best parents and she tried to raise me the best way she knew how. That included not being the best at communicating, so yep, she hurt my feelings. But that got my attention and made me correct my actions. So in that respect, she was successful.

My mother made mistakes, sure. But when I became an adult I was able to forgive her and see things differently from her perspective. That allowed me to let go of some of her behaviors and not take them to heart because I knew she didn't mean it.

Using the word "evil" is rather strong based on the fact the only behaviors you identified were verbal. Yes, verbal abuse is damaging. But I personally reserve the word "evil" for people like murderous psychopaths, not a mother who made mistakes.

This makes me think you are overinflating your mother's bad actions.

I find it hard to believe that your mother really thought you were stupid if she paid for college for you. I can only imagine the financial and other sacrifices she made to do so as a single parent.

As my mother aged, our relationship became much better and she was able to finally express herself in a much more emotionally connective and affectionate way.

I wouldn't have missed those last years with my mother for anything.

I guess but that isn't similar to my experience.
My mom called me a f**kface nearly everyday. She told me things like I wasn't as pretty as I thought I was (trust me, I didn't think I was!) and I was fat (whopping 105 lbs), she called me a c**t and a wh*re many times. She told me my father who passed away when I was a young child sexually abused, which I don't believe to be true. She told me all my extended family hated me. There is a lot there. She was left with a lot of money when my father passed away (divorced), which is why she paid for college. My father passed on a sizable inheritance to her and she never worked but the understanding was that she would provide for my college.

[Anonymous]

sorry, sexually abused me*, which I don't believe to be true.