Would you cut off an evil, toxic mother?

[Anonymous]

^Good post.

[Anonymous]

PP’s seem to have empathy for the toxic mother. That’s fine, and the ability to have empathy is a great trait.

However, here is a metaphor that helps me. Imagine an out-of-control vehicle speeding toward you on the sidewalk. It’s possible the driver is in a diabetic coma or other medical emergency. It is also possible the driver is a homicidal maniac. But if you stand still and get hit, it doesn’t matter WHY the vehicle is on the sidewalk; all that matters is the result. You wouldn’t hesitate for a moment to get yourself out of a physically unsafe situation. If an adult cannot manage her own trauma in a way that makes her emotionally safe to be around, then she’s just not safe for you. It doesn’t matter why.

[Anonymous]

I just try to be a good person. There's a certain amount of BS that I'll put up with for parent, especially when I see life letting them down big time and there are overwhelming losses that they are dealing with.

I had a challenging relationship with my own mom as a teen/young adult. I get how easy it is to just save yourself and walk away from someone who makes you feel terrible about yourself. It's such a blessed relief to get away from that negativity. I'm not saying I was a saint or an innocent and that I never gave my mom reason to get after me, because I did. And I did distance myself big time from her for years.

Then there was one year that she was hit with more devastating problems than a person should ever have to bear alone. It was like her world had exploded into the most devastating nightmare I have ever seen. Instead of saying "not my problem", I chose to support her as best as I knew how. That helped to repair our past issues with one another and once some sanity returned to her life again I found that she could be supportive of me, too. And life became good between us.

Well, now we're dealing with issues of aging and once again I've found that her world has collapsed a bit around her and she's not always in a great place these days - she has lost a lot and I can't make that better for her. I'm not exactly a whipper snapper anymore and I've got my own troubles to contend with. It would be so much easier to walk away. Will I do that? No. So here we go again....this too shall pass.

[Anonymous]

Yes I did best decision ever!

[Anonymous]

My mother used to be verbally abusive and controlling but loves me dearly, so my situation is different from yours. I did cut her off for 6 months following a particularly offensive diatribe and certain cruel decisions she made regarding my family. My husband, who thinks my mother is mentally ill, persuaded me to renew contact. She has been much more aware of boundaries since then and we have a good relationship now.

[Anonymous]

As kids, we aren't given a choice in who we love. We love even before we're able to understand, express or even identify what the feeling is. We are conditioned to love those who raise us no matter how cruel, abusive or inappropriate they are. I love my father who was a violent alcoholic who went into destructive, abusive rages every 5-7 days. I was conditioned to love him. When he killed himself when I was 20, I was grief stricken.

Although I grieved my father when he died, it is the best thing that has ever happened to me. I was free of him and could complete my healing. It took a long time because I was so very conditioned to love him and hated to accept just how evil and vile he was. If he were still alive, I can imagine how difficult it would be take that first step to completely sever a relationship with him. Yet, it would be the right decision. I'm healed and healthy but that doesn't mean there isn't permanent damage to my psyche.

I've had a lot of conversations with my kids (now teenagers) about how I grew up and about healthy relationships and healthy choices. If my father were alive, I would have absolutely no contact with him and I'm clear about that with my kids. My siblings are, too. I am happy to model to my kids what behaviors I expect of them - and that's to cut off anyone toxic regardless of who that person is. When you're an adult, you get to choose who your family is.

Cut off your mother and mourn for the one you never got.

[Anonymous]

It's been over 20 years for me. The first few years were filled with relief and recovery, the next few years were filled with wondering why I didn't do it sooner, the last ten years have been filled with making different memories with my children and with certainty that I did the right thing by breaking the pattern for them.

No regrets at all. Joy with where I am now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My mother used to be verbally abusive and controlling but loves me dearly, so my situation is different from yours. I did cut her off for 6 months following a particularly offensive diatribe and certain cruel decisions she made regarding my family. My husband, who thinks my mother is mentally ill, persuaded me to renew contact. She has been much more aware of boundaries since then and we have a good relationship now.

Similar here. My mother was a milder version of OP's mother. She did something really hurtful when I was pregnant, during a very challenging and stressful pregnancy. I cut her off for 6 months and that was like a mini reset button.

OP you will know when it's time to cut her off. It's hard to tell without understanding the whole dynamic. But I suggest that you become much more assertive with her and slowly distance yourself - you'll get a feel for what feels right for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fast forward thirty years or so. Your children determined that you made mistakes that were unforgivable, you were not supportive enough and therefore you were flat-out evil. Thus they were encouraged to end their relationship with you by a professional, who never heard your side of the story.

How would you feel?

Look, you are a parent. You have made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes. Do you want your kids to harbor and remember only the negative you've inadvertently done to them? Do you want your future relationships with them dependent upon a third-party professional (who has billing hour requirements)?

FWIW, my mother at points in her life called me lazy (when I didn't clean my room) and called me stupid (when I did something dangerous and scared the heck out of her, like hitchhiking) called me mean (when I neglected to care for the dog as I was supposed to) etc.

Was it hurtful that she said those things to me? Yes - but I also learned that she was right about my actions. I know that my mother didn't have the easiest life nor the best parents and she tried to raise me the best way she knew how. That included not being the best at communicating, so yep, she hurt my feelings. But that got my attention and made me correct my actions. So in that respect, she was successful.

My mother made mistakes, sure. But when I became an adult I was able to forgive her and see things differently from her perspective. That allowed me to let go of some of her behaviors and not take them to heart because I knew she didn't mean it.

Using the word "evil" is rather strong based on the fact the only behaviors you identified were verbal. Yes, verbal abuse is damaging. But I personally reserve the word "evil" for people like murderous psychopaths, not a mother who made mistakes.

This makes me think you are overinflating your mother's bad actions.

I find it hard to believe that your mother really thought you were stupid if she paid for college for you. I can only imagine the financial and other sacrifices she made to do so as a single parent.

As my mother aged, our relationship became much better and she was able to finally express herself in a much more emotionally connective and affectionate way.

I wouldn't have missed those last years with my mother for anything.

NP. Are you really comparing your mother calling you mean for neglecting your dog to a mother refusing to hug a child or show physical affection?

I consider evil to be abstract and relative, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to lump people who abuse children into the evil category. I don’t think a person has to murder to be evil.

I also think there’s a big difference between making mistakes and being abusive. It sounds like your mom called you out on your bs as a teen. That’s not abuse. Harsh language on occasion could be a mistake, but you’re conceding to everything your mom said so it doesn’t even sound like a mistake. If OP becomes abusive to her kids, to the point where they need extensive therapy, and pretty much all interactions with her leave the kids feeling worse than they were before, then she probably deserves to be cut off. But caring people who make mistakes don’t do that to others. Abusers do. Not every bad parent has a heart of gold and they simply don’t know better but they try so hard. Some people just suck. No need to apologize for them or keep taking their abuse. It’s okay to drop the rope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I cut my parent off 11 years ago. Let me tell you, I have no regrets and no guilt. It took me YEARS to so it, but it was the right thing. You literally CANNOT heal and CANNOT grow emotionally further than where you are now by having communication with this woman.

It was such a relief to cut my parent off. They were taking up too much real estate in my brain and not paying rent.

I feel similarly. I haven't seen my mother in over 5 years and haven't spoken to her in at least 2. She has a serious mental illness (paranoia, maybe schizophrenia) that she refuses to treat, and it causes her to be horribly abusive to everyone including me. There's nothing I can do about it, and there's no point talking to her because all she wants to talk about is her paranoias, and how, if you don't join her in a crusade against whatever, you are also evil. I've noticed that since I stopped seeing and talking to her, I've grown as a person. I feel like I've healed from our life together. Like I was stuck in some kind of cycle with her and now I'm out of it.

[Anonymous]

This sounds like my DHs mom. It is hard.

He sees her once a year for a weekend (usually the kids and I are present but not always) and stays in a hotel.

He calls her on special occasions (Christmas, Mother’s Day etc) and keeps it brief and doesn’t share much info.

She is his friend on social media but he doesn’t post much- she does see some pics of the kids this way.

Seems to work. She isn’t happy with it but DH protects himself and his family. DH also feels he is “doing right by her” and hopefully won’t have any regrets later on.

I’m sorry. I know how hard this can be.

[Anonymous]

THere is plenty of room between cutting her off and "a few visits a year".

I would absolutely draw very hard and high boundaries OP - especially if this is the outcome of therapy. Perhaps if you think about what you would be willing to expose your children to - would it be easy to see how much to restrict access to your mother in that scenario? Then apply those same standards in protection of yourself.

Good luck OP - this is really hard stuff. I can empathize.

[Anonymous]

To the poster who said they were called lazy and stupid but diidn't cut off their mom -- if you don't feel the evil and hatred coming from your mother, then you don't have the kind of mom who says you're lazy and stupid because they are trying to destroy you. Some mothers want to destroy their children. Who knows why. They are in a battle with them and they want to show the world they are right -- see what a shit they are? Some women take their anger out of their children physically, some verbally. Again, that's not the same as a parent getting to the end of their rope about a kid not taking care of their dog. It's more than that.

If you can't see that, then don't contribute. Some adults are mean, and they have their kids at their mercy. Yes, there are evil people in the world. Some are parents. If you were a child of someone like that, you could feel it, too. You weren't. You are not better than OP for not becoming estranged from a parent who was NOT THE SAME to you as OP's mother was to her.

Sounds like a bit of fear in your post, PP, that your own child will hold some things against you....

[Anonymous]

OP, you may want to try the website outofthefog.net. There’s a discussion forum on it with subs for people having issues with their parents and people considering going “no contact” with parents. You can hear more from people who have BTDT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fast forward thirty years or so. Your children determined that you made mistakes that were unforgivable, you were not supportive enough and therefore you were flat-out evil. Thus they were encouraged to end their relationship with you by a professional, who never heard your side of the story.

How would you feel?

Look, you are a parent. You have made mistakes and will continue to make mistakes. Do you want your kids to harbor and remember only the negative you've inadvertently done to them? Do you want your future relationships with them dependent upon a third-party professional (who has billing hour requirements)?

FWIW, my mother at points in her life called me lazy (when I didn't clean my room) and called me stupid (when I did something dangerous and scared the heck out of her, like hitchhiking) called me mean (when I neglected to care for the dog as I was supposed to) etc.

Was it hurtful that she said those things to me? Yes - but I also learned that she was right about my actions. I know that my mother didn't have the easiest life nor the best parents and she tried to raise me the best way she knew how. That included not being the best at communicating, so yep, she hurt my feelings. But that got my attention and made me correct my actions. So in that respect, she was successful.

My mother made mistakes, sure. But when I became an adult I was able to forgive her and see things differently from her perspective. That allowed me to let go of some of her behaviors and not take them to heart because I knew she didn't mean it.

Using the word "evil" is rather strong based on the fact the only behaviors you identified were verbal. Yes, verbal abuse is damaging. But I personally reserve the word "evil" for people like murderous psychopaths, not a mother who made mistakes.

This makes me think you are overinflating your mother's bad actions.

I find it hard to believe that your mother really thought you were stupid if she paid for college for you. I can only imagine the financial and other sacrifices she made to do so as a single parent.

As my mother aged, our relationship became much better and she was able to finally express herself in a much more emotionally connective and affectionate way.

I wouldn't have missed those last years with my mother for anything.

NP. Are you really comparing your mother calling you mean for neglecting your dog to a mother refusing to hug a child or show physical affection?

I consider evil to be abstract and relative, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to lump people who abuse children into the evil category. I don’t think a person has to murder to be evil.

I also think there’s a big difference between making mistakes and being abusive. It sounds like your mom called you out on your bs as a teen. That’s not abuse. Harsh language on occasion could be a mistake, but you’re conceding to everything your mom said so it doesn’t even sound like a mistake. If OP becomes abusive to her kids, to the point where they need extensive therapy, and pretty much all interactions with her leave the kids feeling worse than they were before, then she probably deserves to be cut off. But caring people who make mistakes don’t do that to others. Abusers do. Not every bad parent has a heart of gold and they simply don’t know better but they try so hard. Some people just suck. No need to apologize for them or keep taking their abuse. It’s okay to drop the rope.

Weirdly enough, I can deal with harsh words better than I could deal with manipulation and lies. A person can say (and mean) harsh things when they are upset. That happens and at least when they're yelling at you, you know why they're mad and where you stand at the moment with them.

I think the worst are the passive aggressive people who kill you with kindness while stabbing you in the back. Trust is a big thing with me. If I can't trust you I can't abide by you. Period.

Just pointing out that there is more than one way to be "toxic and evil". If my parent grouses at me, I'll probably turn the other cheek. If they mislead me or attempt to manipulate me or try to undermine me - I back away.