Familiarity with a disruptive kid in the classroom (FCPS) - what to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1-3 times a week is really not that frequent-how long are they sitting in the hall?

If the child has been at the school for several years, then everyone has just accepted the situation.

If the child is new to the school, they may be working on a behavioral plan or a move to a different school--those things take a really long time.

The same kid throwing desks and attacking other kids 1-3 times per WEEK isn't that frequent? Really?

Even if the skid is new to the school he/she should not be throwing chairs and attacking kids.

[Anonymous]

Pretty sure you can involve the police if children are being assaulted by other children. We had this type of situation at a private - basically were told there was nothing they could do, but was made clear we were not constrained from contacting the authorities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It has come to our attention that my child's classroom has a gifted child with social issues. He will attack other kids, throw desks and disrupt the classroom. Apparently this has been doing on since the beginning of the year but we just learned of it. We have asked our kid to tell us when these incidents happen and what they are. It happens as infrequently as once a week and as frequently as three times a week. When an incident happens they clear everyone else from the classroom and they sit in the hallway until the kid can be calmed down. No one can touch the kid and a counselor and principal are brought in.

I started talking to some friends in other FCPS and apparently this is more of the norm than what I would believe or even thought. I know I am coming off as insensitive and I am not the parent of this kid with issues -- but 25 other kids are suffering in their education. How is this fair for the teacher to have these kinds of disruptions on such a regular basis. And, what is my recourse if this kid hurts my kid since apparently he almost hit another kid with a chair (but missed) in one of these outbursts. He has pulled a kids hair and shoved another.

This is a result of activism. The disruptive kid can not be removed from the classroom. That is considered "exclusion." Teachers can only use positive methods of discipline.
Sometimes, these kids have serious disabilities that lead to this behavior, but must be mainstreamed. He's probably labeled "twice-exceptional."

I taught years ago. There have always been kids who behaved like this--although, there appear to be more now. There is also a difference in a "discipline" problem and a kid with special needs. Some kids are just troublemakers because they are spoiled or neglected. Others cannot seem to help it and the parents, too, are likely desperate.
But, these parents have no understanding of what this disruption does to others. It's the death of common sense. Kids like that need to be placed elsewhere if this happens regularly.

So much ignorance here. I don't believe that you taught in schools, because then you would know the problem is lack of funding for appropriate training of staff and also lack of more appropriate placements. No parent is ok with their kid having multiple violent meltdowns that require a classroom to be cleared out. That parent is desperately fighting for their child to receive appropriate services that can actually effectively address the issues at play. But those services take money and schools are working with a finite pot.

OP, your child deserves to be comfortable and safe, as does every child in that class, including the child who is acting out. When a child in the class has unmet needs that lead to interruptions and dangers for everyone, all the parents are on the same side. It's "insensitive" to speak about the other child as if he is a problem that needs to be removed. It is not insensitive to go to the principal and express concern about that child and your child's safety and how these disruptions are affecting them. Sometimes other parents speaking up are the push principals need to get additional help or make changes.

Of course, for privacy reasons the school will not be able to tell you anything about the other child: what they are trying, what the issue is, etc. They likely will not even be able to confirm which child it is. But that's ok, you don't need that information. Just let them know that you are aware and concerned about it.

Tell that to the parents of the kids shot dead by the Parkland shooter. This was a kid who acted out for years in the classroom and the school system did nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It has come to our attention that my child's classroom has a gifted child with social issues. He will attack other kids, throw desks and disrupt the classroom. Apparently this has been doing on since the beginning of the year but we just learned of it. We have asked our kid to tell us when these incidents happen and what they are. It happens as infrequently as once a week and as frequently as three times a week. When an incident happens they clear everyone else from the classroom and they sit in the hallway until the kid can be calmed down. No one can touch the kid and a counselor and principal are brought in.

I started talking to some friends in other FCPS and apparently this is more of the norm than what I would believe or even thought. I know I am coming off as insensitive and I am not the parent of this kid with issues -- but 25 other kids are suffering in their education. How is this fair for the teacher to have these kinds of disruptions on such a regular basis. And, what is my recourse if this kid hurts my kid since apparently he almost hit another kid with a chair (but missed) in one of these outbursts. He has pulled a kids hair and shoved another.

This is a result of activism. The disruptive kid can not be removed from the classroom. That is considered "exclusion." Teachers can only use positive methods of discipline.
Sometimes, these kids have serious disabilities that lead to this behavior, but must be mainstreamed. He's probably labeled "twice-exceptional."

I taught years ago. There have always been kids who behaved like this--although, there appear to be more now. There is also a difference in a "discipline" problem and a kid with special needs. Some kids are just troublemakers because they are spoiled or neglected. Others cannot seem to help it and the parents, too, are likely desperate.
But, these parents have no understanding of what this disruption does to others. It's the death of common sense. Kids like that need to be placed elsewhere if this happens regularly.

The child is in Fairfax. What is this "elsewhere" placement appropriate for an elementary-age gifted child with these behaviors?

There isn’t one.

Not true. Burke School comes to mind as well as some other schools (WTW) can cater to these type of students. C'mon this is FCPS. They've got something for everyone.

Burke School isn't academically appropriate for gifted students.

Burke School isn't academically appropriate even for average students. One teacher trying to educate 3 to 4 grades of elementary age kids, no specials, no playground for recess, no community -- but plenty of seclusion rooms to lock kids in when the failure to implement an appropriate BIP results in a child with a disability having an anxiety attack. All they succeed in doing is separating these kids from peers, without teaching them anything that will allow them to be productive members of society as adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It has come to our attention that my child's classroom has a gifted child with social issues. He will attack other kids, throw desks and disrupt the classroom. Apparently this has been doing on since the beginning of the year but we just learned of it. We have asked our kid to tell us when these incidents happen and what they are. It happens as infrequently as once a week and as frequently as three times a week. When an incident happens they clear everyone else from the classroom and they sit in the hallway until the kid can be calmed down. No one can touch the kid and a counselor and principal are brought in.

I started talking to some friends in other FCPS and apparently this is more of the norm than what I would believe or even thought. I know I am coming off as insensitive and I am not the parent of this kid with issues -- but 25 other kids are suffering in their education. How is this fair for the teacher to have these kinds of disruptions on such a regular basis. And, what is my recourse if this kid hurts my kid since apparently he almost hit another kid with a chair (but missed) in one of these outbursts. He has pulled a kids hair and shoved another.

This is a result of activism. The disruptive kid can not be removed from the classroom. That is considered "exclusion." Teachers can only use positive methods of discipline.
Sometimes, these kids have serious disabilities that lead to this behavior, but must be mainstreamed. He's probably labeled "twice-exceptional."

I taught years ago. There have always been kids who behaved like this--although, there appear to be more now. There is also a difference in a "discipline" problem and a kid with special needs. Some kids are just troublemakers because they are spoiled or neglected. Others cannot seem to help it and the parents, too, are likely desperate.
But, these parents have no understanding of what this disruption does to others. It's the death of common sense. Kids like that need to be placed elsewhere if this happens regularly.

So much ignorance here. I don't believe that you taught in schools, because then you would know the problem is lack of funding for appropriate training of staff and also lack of more appropriate placements. No parent is ok with their kid having multiple violent meltdowns that require a classroom to be cleared out. That parent is desperately fighting for their child to receive appropriate services that can actually effectively address the issues at play. But those services take money and schools are working with a finite pot.

OP, your child deserves to be comfortable and safe, as does every child in that class, including the child who is acting out. When a child in the class has unmet needs that lead to interruptions and dangers for everyone, all the parents are on the same side. It's "insensitive" to speak about the other child as if he is a problem that needs to be removed. It is not insensitive to go to the principal and express concern about that child and your child's safety and how these disruptions are affecting them. Sometimes other parents speaking up are the push principals need to get additional help or make changes.

Of course, for privacy reasons the school will not be able to tell you anything about the other child: what they are trying, what the issue is, etc. They likely will not even be able to confirm which child it is. But that's ok, you don't need that information. Just let them know that you are aware and concerned about it.

Tell that to the parents of the kids shot dead by the Parkland shooter. This was a kid who acted out for years in the classroom and the school system did nothing.

The parkland shooter went to at least one alternative school. I guess they aren’t magic cures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ultimately only activism and changing the laws for the 99% of
the children who can behave in classroom is needed.

The reality is it doesn't matter how "gifted" a child is. If
the child does not know right from wrong, truly a basic
learned skill, and the child assaults children and throws
chairs 3 times a week in the classroom the child should
be removed from the classroom indefinitely until the
child learns behavior skills.

The removal of common sense in our classrooms in which
one child with behavior issues is allowed to disrupt a
classroom on a daily and weekly basis so that all
of the behaved children have their routines disrupted
and are required to sit in the hallway is ridiculous.

This is a major reason US students test below students
in China, Japan, Europe and Nordic countries.

Children should have behavior skills mastered in order
to be in an "average" classroom mu chless a "gifted"
classroom.

Child who is throwing chairs has 0 repercussions.
Child does not seem to be disciplined. What happens
to this child in the work force?

Signed, someone who fully believes in inclusion for
those with disability
but child should have mastered basic behavior
skills and no right from wrong and what is
acceptable behavior in a classroom.

Well put.
signed, the former teacher who wrote an earlier post saying the child did not belong in that classroom.

I don't care how gifted the kid is, when he is disrupting the class as often as OP says, he needs to be removed and sent to a different placement. His disruption is outweighing the education of others in the class. Period.

I have experience with this from many years ago. One year, I taught kid who was autistic and would start screaming and howling. Fortunately, he did not throw things, but he certainly disrupted the class. He needed to be in a special program.

I also taught another child who was more like the girl described above. She also could be violent and belonged in a class for Emotionally Disturbed. She had been abused and was a very sad case, but she could destroy a classroom in five minutes. How did I handle it? I kept her within three or four feet of me at all times. It was tough, but it kept the other kids safe. It certainly affected the education in my classroom that year.

"Balance," people. And, common sense.

[Anonymous]

OP, my daughter is in a similar situation, although it sounds like not quite as frequent.
It sounds like her school has been trying hard to keep the time when the kids are evacuated useful, or at least pleasant/fun. When it was still warm/nice enough to go without coats, they'd take the kids to the playground. Now it sounds like the teacher grabs a book and they do read-alouds in the art room/computer room/gym/wherever there's currently an empty space.
As terrible as it sounds, it sounds like at least part of the solution for YOUR child is for the teacher to make the evacuation time more useful.

Also, as a PP said, don't focus so much on it when talking to your daughter. My DD is really just rolling with it, and doesn't seem too bothered, and I'm certain if I asked her about it she'd start focusing and thinking these evacuations were "bad" rather than just sort of a normal part of the day and a chance to get out of the boring classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure you can involve the police if children are being assaulted by other children. We had this type of situation at a private - basically were told there was nothing they could do, but was made clear we were not constrained from contacting the authorities.

And so continues the school to prison pipeline. This is a child we're talking about. Do you really think this child should have an arrest record and perhaps be incarcerated so that your child doesn't miss a few minutes of instruction? Do you think that's good for society long term?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It has come to our attention that my child's classroom has a gifted child with social issues. He will attack other kids, throw desks and disrupt the classroom. Apparently this has been doing on since the beginning of the year but we just learned of it. We have asked our kid to tell us when these incidents happen and what they are. It happens as infrequently as once a week and as frequently as three times a week. When an incident happens they clear everyone else from the classroom and they sit in the hallway until the kid can be calmed down. No one can touch the kid and a counselor and principal are brought in.

I started talking to some friends in other FCPS and apparently this is more of the norm than what I would believe or even thought. I know I am coming off as insensitive and I am not the parent of this kid with issues -- but 25 other kids are suffering in their education. How is this fair for the teacher to have these kinds of disruptions on such a regular basis. And, what is my recourse if this kid hurts my kid since apparently he almost hit another kid with a chair (but missed) in one of these outbursts. He has pulled a kids hair and shoved another.

This is a result of activism. The disruptive kid can not be removed from the classroom. That is considered "exclusion." Teachers can only use positive methods of discipline.
Sometimes, these kids have serious disabilities that lead to this behavior, but must be mainstreamed. He's probably labeled "twice-exceptional."

I taught years ago. There have always been kids who behaved like this--although, there appear to be more now. There is also a difference in a "discipline" problem and a kid with special needs. Some kids are just troublemakers because they are spoiled or neglected. Others cannot seem to help it and the parents, too, are likely desperate.
But, these parents have no understanding of what this disruption does to others. It's the death of common sense. Kids like that need to be placed elsewhere if this happens regularly.

So much ignorance here. I don't believe that you taught in schools, because then you would know the problem is lack of funding for appropriate training of staff and also lack of more appropriate placements. No parent is ok with their kid having multiple violent meltdowns that require a classroom to be cleared out. That parent is desperately fighting for their child to receive appropriate services that can actually effectively address the issues at play. But those services take money and schools are working with a finite pot.

OP, your child deserves to be comfortable and safe, as does every child in that class, including the child who is acting out. When a child in the class has unmet needs that lead to interruptions and dangers for everyone, all the parents are on the same side. It's "insensitive" to speak about the other child as if he is a problem that needs to be removed. It is not insensitive to go to the principal and express concern about that child and your child's safety and how these disruptions are affecting them. Sometimes other parents speaking up are the push principals need to get additional help or make changes.

Of course, for privacy reasons the school will not be able to tell you anything about the other child: what they are trying, what the issue is, etc. They likely will not even be able to confirm which child it is. But that's ok, you don't need that information. Just let them know that you are aware and concerned about it.

Some parents are working very hard for a solution. Some parents have their own issues with self-regulation, some don't show up for meetings and don't implement any strategies at home (such as regular attendance and getting to school on time) I have been told "this is your job, you deal with it" by parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure you can involve the police if children are being assaulted by other children. We had this type of situation at a private - basically were told there was nothing they could do, but was made clear we were not constrained from contacting the authorities.

And so continues the school to prison pipeline. This is a child we're talking about. Do you really think this child should have an arrest record and perhaps be incarcerated so that your child doesn't miss a few minutes of instruction? Do you think that's good for society long term?

No. But, get back when your child ends up in the ER.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure you can involve the police if children are being assaulted by other children. We had this type of situation at a private - basically were told there was nothing they could do, but was made clear we were not constrained from contacting the authorities.

And so continues the school to prison pipeline. This is a child we're talking about. Do you really think this child should have an arrest record and perhaps be incarcerated so that your child doesn't miss a few minutes of instruction? Do you think that's good for society long term?

No, I wouldn't report for classroom disruption. My child was once stabbed hard with a pencil by an out-of-control child. He (my kid) came home mid day with a hole in his shirt and a bleeding wound. I did not report this child because the school removed the child from the school within the next week. Had nothing been done I would have reported the kid to the police (other parents did for similarly violent outbursts).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure you can involve the police if children are being assaulted by other children. We had this type of situation at a private - basically were told there was nothing they could do, but was made clear we were not constrained from contacting the authorities.

And so continues the school to prison pipeline. This is a child we're talking about. Do you really think this child should have an arrest record and perhaps be incarcerated so that your child doesn't miss a few minutes of instruction? Do you think that's good for society long term?

The school to prison pipeline continues because the disruptive kid never learns it is wrong to assault someone. They are never disciplined at home for throwing chairs.
They are not disciplined in the school district for assaulting the teacher. They turn 18, assault someone, and then they see prison. Maybe they could learn
what is acceptable behavior before then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure you can involve the police if children are being assaulted by other children. We had this type of situation at a private - basically were told there was nothing they could do, but was made clear we were not constrained from contacting the authorities.

And so continues the school to prison pipeline. This is a child we're talking about. Do you really think this child should have an arrest record and perhaps be incarcerated so that your child doesn't miss a few minutes of instruction? Do you think that's good for society long term?

This post is unresponsive to the problem being discussed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pretty sure you can involve the police if children are being assaulted by other children. We had this type of situation at a private - basically were told there was nothing they could do, but was made clear we were not constrained from contacting the authorities.

And so continues the school to prison pipeline. This is a child we're talking about. Do you really think this child should have an arrest record and perhaps be incarcerated so that your child doesn't miss a few minutes of instruction? Do you think that's good for society long term?

No, I wouldn't report for classroom disruption. My child was once stabbed hard with a pencil by an out-of-control child. He (my kid) came home mid day with a hole in his shirt and a bleeding wound. I did not report this child because the school removed the child from the school within the next week. Had nothing been done I would have reported the kid to the police (other parents did for similarly violent outbursts).

Agreed. I'm the PP whose kid's classmate was stabbed by a pen and then hit in the head requiring an ER visit and stitches. No one called the police when the kid just threw things or hit/punched/kicked kids. But that crossed a line. No charges were brought but it certainly got the school and parents moving a little faster.

[Anonymous]

I'm so sick of this "kid has special needs therefore they can do whatever they want". It's not helpful to your kids AT ALL.