Familiarity with a disruptive kid in the classroom (FCPS) - what to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It has come to our attention that my child's classroom has a gifted child with social issues. He will attack other kids, throw desks and disrupt the classroom. Apparently this has been doing on since the beginning of the year but we just learned of it. We have asked our kid to tell us when these incidents happen and what they are. It happens as infrequently as once a week and as frequently as three times a week. When an incident happens they clear everyone else from the classroom and they sit in the hallway until the kid can be calmed down. No one can touch the kid and a counselor and principal are brought in.

I started talking to some friends in other FCPS and apparently this is more of the norm than what I would believe or even thought. I know I am coming off as insensitive and I am not the parent of this kid with issues -- but 25 other kids are suffering in their education. How is this fair for the teacher to have these kinds of disruptions on such a regular basis. And, what is my recourse if this kid hurts my kid since apparently he almost hit another kid with a chair (but missed) in one of these outbursts. He has pulled a kids hair and shoved another.

This is a result of activism. The disruptive kid can not be removed from the classroom. That is considered "exclusion." Teachers can only use positive methods of discipline.
Sometimes, these kids have serious disabilities that lead to this behavior, but must be mainstreamed. He's probably labeled "twice-exceptional."

I taught years ago. There have always been kids who behaved like this--although, there appear to be more now. There is also a difference in a "discipline" problem and a kid with special needs. Some kids are just troublemakers because they are spoiled or neglected. Others cannot seem to help it and the parents, too, are likely desperate.
But, these parents have no understanding of what this disruption does to others. It's the death of common sense. Kids like that need to be placed elsewhere if this happens regularly.

So much ignorance here. I don't believe that you taught in schools, because then you would know the problem is lack of funding for appropriate training of staff and also lack of more appropriate placements. No parent is ok with their kid having multiple violent meltdowns that require a classroom to be cleared out. That parent is desperately fighting for their child to receive appropriate services that can actually effectively address the issues at play. But those services take money and schools are working with a finite pot.

OP, your child deserves to be comfortable and safe, as does every child in that class, including the child who is acting out. When a child in the class has unmet needs that lead to interruptions and dangers for everyone, all the parents are on the same side. It's "insensitive" to speak about the other child as if he is a problem that needs to be removed. It is not insensitive to go to the principal and express concern about that child and your child's safety and how these disruptions are affecting them. Sometimes other parents speaking up are the push principals need to get additional help or make changes.

Of course, for privacy reasons the school will not be able to tell you anything about the other child: what they are trying, what the issue is, etc. They likely will not even be able to confirm which child it is. But that's ok, you don't need that information. Just let them know that you are aware and concerned about it.

Tell that to the parents of the kids shot dead by the Parkland shooter. This was a kid who acted out for years in the classroom and the school system did nothing.

The parkland shooter went to at least one alternative school. I guess they aren’t magic cures.

The school stopped all services for the Parkland shooter the year his mom died. They were criminally negligent.

Those schools, if you've ever visited are holding cells till the kids age out. They don't really have good teachers or mental health services and not all parents do outside help.

Right...because these are SCHOOLS, not mental hospitals or treatment centers. They are SCHOOLS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Family friends in FCPS who have a disruptive child, severe ADHD, have spent many hours and funds on therapy yet he still hits other students and recently the teacher. He's always had issues since he was a toddler and was kicked out of preschools. I feel so bad for the family (other kids are fine)! I think he needed early intervention services but his needs were not identified as he was home with a nanny until 4 and perhaps parents were in denial thinking he would grow out of it.

He had an IEP, lots of FCPS counseling services, many warnings and suspensions, but he is now headed for a special needs school for emotionally disturbed students. Parents are devasted.

But why are they devastated? It's probably going to be a much better environment for their kid. I've seen that kid in a public school. It's really hard for them. No kids want to eat lunch with them, play with them, or be their partner. And that certainly doesn't help with their behavior. I know no one wants the label of "emotionally disturbed" but FCPS was clearly not a good environment either

You know what I don't hear here: he is seeing a psychiatrist and getting medicated.

No offense to all of the people out there who think that you can just "train" a kid out of bad behaviour: this kid may actually need medication. As in if this kid has severe ADHD, he should be on ADHD meds. If he is still violent, they should consider giving them Abilify or Risperdal (antipsychotics). (Note: this is an anonymous forum, please contact medical professionals and take this with a grain of salt.) If this kid is clinically defined as ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) and even with CBT: meds aren't evil if they can keep your kid from being kicked out of school.

We also have a neighbor with a kid like this and his meds changed him from being violent to being normal-- like legit normal kid overnight. Brain chemistry is funny this way. Do I think it's a panacea for ailments like this? Nope. But for parents who don't know what their kid could be like, when they do put their kids on these meds, the amount of relief on their faces is almost immediate. They just smile more.

Good luck.

(PP) YES he is seeing a psychiatrist who is trying diff meds, so far unsuccessfully plus private therapy. Also, he sees school counselor and social worker. 4 mental health professional and few improvements. And other services from his IEP. One parent had to change to a part time job to be available to attend so many sessions and school meetings each week.

PP, the one you bolded.

I am sorry the parents are going through this.

If he isn’t benefiting from a typical ODD treatment, he might actually be a sociopath.

I know that’s hard to hear but a lot of really smart kids are also sociopaths. There is no medication for it, if the violence isn’t being resolved normally. And the treatment for it isn’t keeping them in schools- they have to have an immersive treatment.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/when-your-child-is-a-psychopath/524502/

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

^^^^ Sadly I’m afraid our little friend is a sociopath. What I didn’t mention (outside of the school incidents) is that he started to choke DS during a recent play date. And during our last pool outing this friend pushed DS under water and held him down. My DS is strong and athletic so he can break free and fend for himself but he shouldn’t have to worry about a play mate turning on him. And I’m not going to supervise their interactions. I feel bad for the family who are now used to being distanced from friends due to their son’s unpredictable bad behavior!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^^ Sadly I’m afraid our little friend is a sociopath. What I didn’t mention (outside of the school incidents) is that he started to choke DS during a recent play date. And during our last pool outing this friend pushed DS under water and held him down. My DS is strong and athletic so he can break free and fend for himself but he shouldn’t have to worry about a play mate turning on him. And I’m not going to supervise their interactions. I feel bad for the family who are now used to being distanced from friends due to their son’s unpredictable bad behavior!

Fuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhh


I am so sorry to hear that.

[Anonymous]

Op, the only solution is to complain and complain and complain(and ask your child to complain every single time an incident happens) until the school gets tired of listening t

The disruptive kid is the squeaky wheel getting the grease. Your child has to become one too(complaints), and they will move your child to another class.

Unfortunately, this is how the game is played.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

It has come to our attention that my child's classroom has a gifted child with social issues. He will attack other kids, throw desks and disrupt the classroom. Apparently this has been doing on since the beginning of the year but we just learned of it. We have asked our kid to tell us when these incidents happen and what they are. It happens as infrequently as once a week and as frequently as three times a week. When an incident happens they clear everyone else from the classroom and they sit in the hallway until the kid can be calmed down. No one can touch the kid and a counselor and principal are brought in.

I started talking to some friends in other FCPS and apparently this is more of the norm than what I would believe or even thought. I know I am coming off as insensitive and I am not the parent of this kid with issues -- but 25 other kids are suffering in their education. How is this fair for the teacher to have these kinds of disruptions on such a regular basis. And, what is my recourse if this kid hurts my kid since apparently he almost hit another kid with a chair (but missed) in one of these outbursts. He has pulled a kids hair and shoved another.

Private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^^^ Sadly I’m afraid our little friend is a sociopath. What I didn’t mention (outside of the school incidents) is that he started to choke DS during a recent play date. And during our last pool outing this friend pushed DS under water and held him down. My DS is strong and athletic so he can break free and fend for himself but he shouldn’t have to worry about a play mate turning on him. And I’m not going to supervise their interactions. I feel bad for the family who are now used to being distanced from friends due to their son’s unpredictable bad behavior!

Why on earth did you set up a playdate with this kid to begin with?

[Anonymous]

NP.

PP can you please explain your reasoning for being angry re it’s more expensive to educate some children than others? Asking honestly. I have always viewed this issue similar to health insurance. Do I feel angry that my coworkers wife has breast cancer and therefore consumes FAR more healthcare than my family? No. Can you explain how educating children is different? TIA!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Family friends in FCPS who have a disruptive child, severe ADHD, have spent many hours and funds on therapy yet he still hits other students and recently the teacher. He's always had issues since he was a toddler and was kicked out of preschools. I feel so bad for the family (other kids are fine)! I think he needed early intervention services but his needs were not identified as he was home with a nanny until 4 and perhaps parents were in denial thinking he would grow out of it.

He had an IEP, lots of FCPS counseling services, many warnings and suspensions, but he is now headed for a special needs school for emotionally disturbed students. Parents are devasted.

But why are they devastated? It's probably going to be a much better environment for their kid. I've seen that kid in a public school. It's really hard for them. No kids want to eat lunch with them, play with them, or be their partner. And that certainly doesn't help with their behavior. I know no one wants the label of "emotionally disturbed" but FCPS was clearly not a good environment either

I'm not the friend of this family, but, is it hard to imagine why this would be devastating? The kid is being sent to an inferior school, where he will receiving little to nothing in the way of an actual education, will have to travel a long distance from home every day, won't make any friends, and will lose ties to the local community. If / when he's able to return to a regular school he won't know anyone, will be far behind other kids in his grade and will have to work so much harder just to catch up. And in FCPS they know that when their kid misbehaves in one of these schools he will be locked in a closet as punishment. Depending on how long he's stuck in one of these schools, throw away any hope of the kid going to college -- the high schools don't offer the necessary classes (like foreign language) that you need to get into any decent schools. The parents are coming to grips with the fact that the school has given up on their kid. And even if they had the resources to go private, nobody wants to take a kid with behavioral issues. The family knows that things are not working in the current school, and does not want their kid to be disruptive or god forbid hurt anyone -- but that doesn't make it any easier to know that without a proper education the kid has no hope of having a decent future.

DP here. Religious schools are always an option.

Home schooling is always an option too.

What part of EVERY child is entitled to an education do you not understand?

Oh we know. We just think it’s BS that your kid’s education can cost the county $50k while every other kid gets the shaft.

Not to worry, if your child acts like that they may get the privilege of a $50K a year school too. Really, be grateful that your child doesn't have mental health, cognitive or any other issues that cause him or her to behave that way. Its easy to criticize, its harder to actually help.

Here is the confusion. My responsibility is to my children not yours. You are certainly not wasting any mental space thinking about how your child affects mine. It’s all about getting your entitlements and consequences to others be damned.

[Anonymous]

I am grateful that my kids do not have the desk throwing issue. I want those to get the help they need. I also do not think that it is "equity" to have a whole classroom disrupted on a regular basis by a child who has problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am grateful that my kids do not have the desk throwing issue. I want those to get the help they need. I also do not think that it is "equity" to have a whole classroom disrupted on a regular basis by a child who has problems.

Then, are you willing for the school system to pay for a private school that costs between $60-120K per child for that child to get out of your child's classroom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am grateful that my kids do not have the desk throwing issue. I want those to get the help they need. I also do not think that it is "equity" to have a whole classroom disrupted on a regular basis by a child who has problems.

Then, are you willing for the school system to pay for a private school that costs between $60-120K per child for that child to get out of your child's classroom?

Absolutely not. There is zero reason to spend millions of dollars to educate a kid that will end up doing nothing more than bag groceries as an adult. We need to bring back institutionalization

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP.

PP can you please explain your reasoning for being angry re it’s more expensive to educate some children than others? Asking honestly. I have always viewed this issue similar to health insurance. Do I feel angry that my coworkers wife has breast cancer and therefore consumes FAR more healthcare than my family? No. Can you explain how educating children is different? TIA!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Family friends in FCPS who have a disruptive child, severe ADHD, have spent many hours and funds on therapy yet he still hits other students and recently the teacher. He's always had issues since he was a toddler and was kicked out of preschools. I feel so bad for the family (other kids are fine)! I think he needed early intervention services but his needs were not identified as he was home with a nanny until 4 and perhaps parents were in denial thinking he would grow out of it.

He had an IEP, lots of FCPS counseling services, many warnings and suspensions, but he is now headed for a special needs school for emotionally disturbed students. Parents are devasted.

But why are they devastated? It's probably going to be a much better environment for their kid. I've seen that kid in a public school. It's really hard for them. No kids want to eat lunch with them, play with them, or be their partner. And that certainly doesn't help with their behavior. I know no one wants the label of "emotionally disturbed" but FCPS was clearly not a good environment either

I'm not the friend of this family, but, is it hard to imagine why this would be devastating? The kid is being sent to an inferior school, where he will receiving little to nothing in the way of an actual education, will have to travel a long distance from home every day, won't make any friends, and will lose ties to the local community. If / when he's able to return to a regular school he won't know anyone, will be far behind other kids in his grade and will have to work so much harder just to catch up. And in FCPS they know that when their kid misbehaves in one of these schools he will be locked in a closet as punishment. Depending on how long he's stuck in one of these schools, throw away any hope of the kid going to college -- the high schools don't offer the necessary classes (like foreign language) that you need to get into any decent schools. The parents are coming to grips with the fact that the school has given up on their kid. And even if they had the resources to go private, nobody wants to take a kid with behavioral issues. The family knows that things are not working in the current school, and does not want their kid to be disruptive or god forbid hurt anyone -- but that doesn't make it any easier to know that without a proper education the kid has no hope of having a decent future.

DP here. Religious schools are always an option.

Home schooling is always an option too.

What part of EVERY child is entitled to an education do you not understand?

Oh we know. We just think it’s BS that your kid’s education can cost the county $50k while every other kid gets the shaft.

Not to worry, if your child acts like that they may get the privilege of a $50K a year school too. Really, be grateful that your child doesn't have mental health, cognitive or any other issues that cause him or her to behave that way. Its easy to criticize, its harder to actually help.

Here is the confusion. My responsibility is to my children not yours. You are certainly not wasting any mental space thinking about how your child affects mine. It’s all about getting your entitlements and consequences to others be damned.

Not PP, and I am not angry, but I presume the difference is that (a) breast cancer is actually getting cured or treated and (b) the person with breast cancer isn't actively harming other kids. Personally if I felt the schools could actually help a disordered child, that would be one thing, but I have never seen much evidence the public schools have any significant competency with emotional disorders. They can barely manage my child with dyslexia (but no ED) and we are moving to private next year. I've spent a ton of time with IEP management and specialists, and I think the idea that the public schools have the expertise to manage a child with severe ED is ridiculous.

I don't know what the answer is, but I think hoping the schools will miraculously overcome their basic incompetence with a ton of money is a fool's errand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am grateful that my kids do not have the desk throwing issue. I want those to get the help they need. I also do not think that it is "equity" to have a whole classroom disrupted on a regular basis by a child who has problems.

Then, are you willing for the school system to pay for a private school that costs between $60-120K per child for that child to get out of your child's classroom?

Absolutely not. There is zero reason to spend millions of dollars to educate a kid that will end up doing nothing more than bag groceries as an adult. We need to bring back institutionalization

Wow. That might be your child one day. Those are institutions and institutions cost $100k plus a year. You are really clueless and mean. Prevention early on can cost less in future needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP.

PP can you please explain your reasoning for being angry re it’s more expensive to educate some children than others? Asking honestly. I have always viewed this issue similar to health insurance. Do I feel angry that my coworkers wife has breast cancer and therefore consumes FAR more healthcare than my family? No. Can you explain how educating children is different? TIA!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Family friends in FCPS who have a disruptive child, severe ADHD, have spent many hours and funds on therapy yet he still hits other students and recently the teacher. He's always had issues since he was a toddler and was kicked out of preschools. I feel so bad for the family (other kids are fine)! I think he needed early intervention services but his needs were not identified as he was home with a nanny until 4 and perhaps parents were in denial thinking he would grow out of it.

He had an IEP, lots of FCPS counseling services, many warnings and suspensions, but he is now headed for a special needs school for emotionally disturbed students. Parents are devasted.

But why are they devastated? It's probably going to be a much better environment for their kid. I've seen that kid in a public school. It's really hard for them. No kids want to eat lunch with them, play with them, or be their partner. And that certainly doesn't help with their behavior. I know no one wants the label of "emotionally disturbed" but FCPS was clearly not a good environment either

I'm not the friend of this family, but, is it hard to imagine why this would be devastating? The kid is being sent to an inferior school, where he will receiving little to nothing in the way of an actual education, will have to travel a long distance from home every day, won't make any friends, and will lose ties to the local community. If / when he's able to return to a regular school he won't know anyone, will be far behind other kids in his grade and will have to work so much harder just to catch up. And in FCPS they know that when their kid misbehaves in one of these schools he will be locked in a closet as punishment. Depending on how long he's stuck in one of these schools, throw away any hope of the kid going to college -- the high schools don't offer the necessary classes (like foreign language) that you need to get into any decent schools. The parents are coming to grips with the fact that the school has given up on their kid. And even if they had the resources to go private, nobody wants to take a kid with behavioral issues. The family knows that things are not working in the current school, and does not want their kid to be disruptive or god forbid hurt anyone -- but that doesn't make it any easier to know that without a proper education the kid has no hope of having a decent future.

DP here. Religious schools are always an option.

Home schooling is always an option too.

What part of EVERY child is entitled to an education do you not understand?

Oh we know. We just think it’s BS that your kid’s education can cost the county $50k while every other kid gets the shaft.

Not to worry, if your child acts like that they may get the privilege of a $50K a year school too. Really, be grateful that your child doesn't have mental health, cognitive or any other issues that cause him or her to behave that way. Its easy to criticize, its harder to actually help.

Here is the confusion. My responsibility is to my children not yours. You are certainly not wasting any mental space thinking about how your child affects mine. It’s all about getting your entitlements and consequences to others be damned.

Many parents spend a fortune privately on therapists, mental heath treatment and more and because science is not exact and schools fail the kids, what more can some do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am grateful that my kids do not have the desk throwing issue. I want those to get the help they need. I also do not think that it is "equity" to have a whole classroom disrupted on a regular basis by a child who has problems.

Then, are you willing for the school system to pay for a private school that costs between $60-120K per child for that child to get out of your child's classroom?

DP. Honestly, yes. One of my kids had a student like that in his class a few years ago. It was awful and two classmates were injured and required medical attention before the school moved the kid to an ED center. One of the kids got a pretty serious injury from this student; I won't get into specifics, but I could believe the medical bills and attorney fees the county had to foot easily hit the mid five-figures. Looking at the SpEd budget, my guess is it would be cheaper in the long run to send the most emotionally disturbed kids to private placement ASAP.