Handling family members who are not self-aware

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm assuming you aren't helpless and passive with your DH and that you fall back into learned patterns when you're around you're parents. What would your response have been if your DH was behaving as your father - and don't say your DH wouldn't. Use your imagination. Wouldn't you have put your foot down, advocated for your kid and then do what needed to be done to make sure your DS's needs were being met?

Instead, you became this passive, unassertive wimp who is more worried about the impact of your behavior on your mother rather than what was happening with your child. You allowed your parents ('cause your mother is also making choices here) to call all the shots and you were just a victim of their choices.

It is not your family members who lack self-awareness, it is you. Per your OP, this happens every time and so rather than look to them to be different or more aware, you need to be more aware of how you can stop being a victim. You are capable of controlling your time with your parents. You choose not to. This is definitely not an unbreakable dynamic.

What is somebody to do in that situation? Drag somebody who is half a foot taller than me out of the house? I try to advocate for myself and my child, and I get lectured. I can’t win, so I think I’m going to stop trying.

You don't try to advocate, you ACT. Hire an Uber. Order in a pizza. Get a second rental car. Tell your parents that you are taking your child out to eat for an early dinner, just the two of you, and ask if they want you to bring them something back to eat. Get your child to bed on time. Go shopping and fill the rental house with snacks. There are so many other options besides sitting back, getting lectured and apologizing for your mother's choices.

This. I don’t “ask” or explain things to my parents or ILs- I’m in my 40s! We TELL them what we (our immediately family) are doing, as described above. We’d tell them we are leaving to grab dinner, and see you back at the hotel! I find this entire scenario difficult to understand- sounds more like a teenager/parent dynamic than a mature adult child with a family of her own/parent dynamic.

THIS. "Josie needs to eat now, so we're going to walk across the street to the taco place. Have a good dinner."

[Anonymous]

Narcissists. Was your childhood always subjected to doing what he wants, how he wants it?
Also pack food for your kid. Also tell your dad off again for acting worse than your kid. Repeat the cycle. Is your mom a pushover? Did she train your to give in so there is peace?

[Anonymous]

I went to a family graduation party and few days this year. Flew in, used uber, as it was a small town with rental car places closed on Sunday. I did not rely on FIL or anyone to drive me anywhere. I took uber everywhere.
You should have taken an uber and beat your dad at pouting game, instead of being worried you hurt his feelings.

[Anonymous]

My parents have grown WAY more self-centered as they've aged (early 70's now) as have my in-laws. In a situation like this, I usually make sure to grab provisions (thankfully even a drug-store now has a loaf of bread, jar of PB and jelly) so we can have a (granted, pathetic!) meal in a pinch when needed. Sorry you're in that spot - depending on how old you kid is, this may be the way to go, and maybe indeed renting your own car, or staying someplace urban enough that you can get an Uber of Lyft if need be.

[Anonymous]

OP in your post you keep blaming yourself by saying that you should have known better to keep your mouth shut etc. I strongly suggest that you stop doing this. His being an asshole is not your fault or frankly your problem anymore. He's a bully and probably an insecure coward. He bullies you because he can. For your child's sake, stop this now.

Do not vacation with them or visit under any circumstances where you can not immediately walk out. Stay in a hotel. Get your own accommodations. Visit less or not at all. He will most likely throw a fit at first but you will not have to endure it because you will just walk out. Keep doing this and he will stop acting this way around you because he will see that you no longer weaker than him and an easy target.

[Anonymous]

Oh come on all... they were going out to eat, and OP was planning on that. How was she to know that her dad will spend hours on the stupid phone?

[Anonymous]

Your dad sounds like my dad. You need to accept that how he treats your mom is not your problem. She’s a grown woman. If she doesn’t like it, she can divorce him. It’s not your job to protect her. It IS your job to protect yourself and your kid. I sympathize — I too grew up walking on eggshells to avoid setting my dad off because he would take it out on everyone for ages if I did — but you’re a free adult now. You can drop the rope. Let him be mad. Just don’t put yourself in a position where he has the power over you again.

[Anonymous]

This is how FIL became an ahole... MIL kept the peace and shut the kids up to have everything FILs way. They still follow the same pattern, and she has been gone for over 2 decades. FIL is also prone to tantrums, and loves to go on that he is just a boy! So, I advocate that all the adult kids stop pussy footing to their parents. DH doesn't do it, but I have called out FIL and my own mom out so many times.
I don't care if there is no peace for a few days.
Here is what I would do.
"Dad, you don't get to have a tantrum after keeping everyone waiting for an hour and your grand kid hungry. You do not get to act like I am wrong for calling you out. You put your phone ahead of all of us."
This is how you break the cycle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:YOU lack self-awareness if you can't see you're a victim and a martyr. Stop being such a willing participant in this dynamic. Grow up, open your mouth, say no.

I can see how op keeps repeating this, though. My FIL can be the same way. Sometimes I'm surprised at the things he says and does, even knowing his personality. Being surprised by unpredictable behavior doesn't make one a "willing participant."

As for op, I think as parents we all occasionally make the mistake of finding ourselves without a snack or trying to push dinner just a little too late. It happens. But how was op supposed to know that her father would take this particular opportunity to behave like a child, then gaslight her, then lecture her?

Yep, obviously all problems could be eliminated by being prepared, always, for anything. But that's not how life works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm assuming you aren't helpless and passive with your DH and that you fall back into learned patterns when you're around you're parents. What would your response have been if your DH was behaving as your father - and don't say your DH wouldn't. Use your imagination. Wouldn't you have put your foot down, advocated for your kid and then do what needed to be done to make sure your DS's needs were being met?

Instead, you became this passive, unassertive wimp who is more worried about the impact of your behavior on your mother rather than what was happening with your child. You allowed your parents ('cause your mother is also making choices here) to call all the shots and you were just a victim of their choices.

It is not your family members who lack self-awareness, it is you. Per your OP, this happens every time and so rather than look to them to be different or more aware, you need to be more aware of how you can stop being a victim. You are capable of controlling your time with your parents. You choose not to. This is definitely not an unbreakable dynamic.

What is somebody to do in that situation? Drag somebody who is half a foot taller than me out of the house? I try to advocate for myself and my child, and I get lectured. I can’t win, so I think I’m going to stop trying.

You don't try to advocate, you ACT. Hire an Uber. Order in a pizza. Get a second rental car. Tell your parents that you are taking your child out to eat for an early dinner, just the two of you, and ask if they want you to bring them something back to eat. Get your child to bed on time. Go shopping and fill the rental house with snacks. There are so many other options besides sitting back, getting lectured and apologizing for your mother's choices.

This. I don’t “ask” or explain things to my parents or ILs- I’m in my 40s! We TELL them what we (our immediately family) are doing, as described above. We’d tell them we are leaving to grab dinner, and see you back at the hotel! I find this entire scenario difficult to understand- sounds more like a teenager/parent dynamic than a mature adult child with a family of her own/parent dynamic.

THIS. "Josie needs to eat now, so we're going to walk across the street to the taco place. Have a good dinner."

Y'all live in an odd reality where people respond to you in predictable ways and everything turns out favorably for you.

"Josie needs to eat now, so we're going to the taco place."
"Oh great, we'll join you, just give us a minute. "
Waits a minute, prods the grandparents, causing grandpa to yell and lecture.
Or
"Ok dad, we'll meet you at the taco place. "
They arrive while you're already eating, grandpa gets huffy and hurt, causing him to yell and lecture.

I agree that op does need to set boundaries and be firm. But don't kid yourself that this plan will elicit a different response from grandpa.

[Anonymous]

I would no longer be in contact with these parents. The narcissist dad doesn't present just one problem, but there's a whole ton of problems he probably has and his adult daughter and wife just put up with it. The mom is a martyr and probably makes the dad OP's problem (I bet you 100% the mom likely tried to make dad's reaction to be OP's fault in a "If you hadn't done that, he wouldn't be like this"). It's not healthy to be part of such a dynamic and so I would cease all contact with them. If they can't respect your time and you as a person, what is the point?????

[Anonymous]

Yeah, grandpa and grandma are highly unlikely to change. You can set all the boundaries you want, but those boundaries are for you and your protection.

No one in my family cares whether I am hungry, whether my kids are hungry, or will try compromise like non-dsyfunctional adults would do. It is what it is.

[Anonymous]

The behavior is partially a product of the patriarchy. Your dad has been entitled to act however he wants his entire life and your mom just has to keep the peace. He has been dealt with this way his entire life and will be unable to handle someone, especially a woman, addressing his bad behavior. He is your typical entitled white male baby boomer.

Next time do what you need to do and GTF out of there. Do NOT fall in the footsteps of your mom.

[Anonymous]

Amen to that, sister. preach.
I have just been thinking about how much TIME and ENERGY and LABOR and MONEY has been spent over the milennia dealing with men's anger and men's tantrums. All these people tiptoeing around angry men -- often with dire consequences, people who are afraid to tell Dad not to make a risky investment with the college money, women who see their male boss making a mistake and know they can't say anything because he will yell. Laborers who ignore shoddy construction because the big boss is a yeller. Why have we all put up with it for so long?

BTW, my dad is exactly like the dad in the scenario and you'd have to be INSANE to put yourself in a position where you share a rental car. This guy doesn't care about anyone but himself or anyone's schedule but his own. He doesn't care if your child is hungry, etc. THe lesson is not to put yourself in that situation again.

ALso, invite your mom to visit without him and if she doesn't take up the invite, that's her problem not yours.

[Anonymous]

Yep. Narcissist. We had one horrid vacation with narcissist FIL when the kids were little. It won’t change.