UPenn's Head of counseling and psychological services commits suicide

[Anonymous]

It's silly to blame this man's unfortunate suicide on any culture at Penn. Penn's undergrad or grad or faculty or admin culture is no different from any top schools. The issue is the person, not the school or the environment.

[Anonymous]

Oh please this had nothing to do with Penn and everything to do with the poor sad victim. Stop it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing I struggle with understanding, and I mean this with kindness as my life's been touched by suicide too. Do you think it's possible for someone to just kind of lose control/snap and their body goes into autopilot and does it? Like as easily as I can lose my temper and raise my voice with my kids after a tough day/week. Or do you think it's always more intentional/thought-out?

I think there are many different paths to suicide.

For some it is an impulsive action - often after a moment of humiliation, embarrassment or abandonment / rejection. Being intoxicated is another factors in impulsive actions. Feelings of worthlessness, hopelessness, helplessness often are underlying. For example, suicide rates are higher after teen breakups.

For others it is the other end of the spectrum where it is a 'rational' decision. Something the person has thought very long and hard about and planned out and it is a very intentional. For example someone with a terminal illness who decides to end their life on their own terms.

For others it is more about mental illness and their mind takes them to a dark place where the light at the end of the tunnel gets further and further away. Their thinking gets distorted and their reality is skewed. They may plan it out or snap but it is based on irrational and self depreciating thoughts that come with the illness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's silly to blame this man's unfortunate suicide on any culture at Penn. Penn's undergrad or grad or faculty or admin culture is no different from any top schools. The issue is the person, not the school or the environment.

Yet there are posts after posts saying what a toxic environment it is. For faculty and students.

[Anonymous]

For those of us familiar with PENN, we know all too well, the PENN face -- for others, google it.

Yes, many schools are cut-throat, but there is something particularly toxic about PENN. Personally, I think it has something to do with Philadelphia. People complain about rudeness, self-centeredness, etc in DC, Philly takes it to another level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So tragic.

I’m not affiliated with UPenn, don’t have a kid who wants to go there or a true peer school (looking at SLACs) and generally do not GAF about it at all. But, it’s probably not fair to say UPenn’s culture killed him. A toxic environment can make underlying problems worse. But people don’t usually go from completely mentally healthy to suicide in 6 months because their job is miserable. Mentally healthy people find a new job. Something else was almost certainly going on. And high functions depression is a thing.

Also, I would hope no one was trying to gloat about a suicide because they have something against UPenn and it makes UPenn look bad. I’m sure no one on here would do that.

— a suicide survivor

NP. I applaud your empathy and your call for sensitivity at this sad time. Please continue to experience sunshine and happiness in every day of your life.

Thank you. That was 15 years ago during scary PPD. and my life now is pretty awesome. I can’t believe how close I came to not seeing my now senior graduate and choose a college. How close I came to not seeing the baby who triggered the PPD become this amazing young woman. But at the time it was one, long dark tunnel with no end in sight. So be kind. You don’t know what pushes someone over the edge. Sometimes, they don’t know. They just know they can’t fight anymore.

This is a good time to reflect on mental health on college campuses. How to identify people who are in trouble and help. How to make it okay to ask for help or admit you are depressed. Please don’t brag about your kids Ivy admissions or pile on UPenn. Because you don’t know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's the thing I struggle with understanding, and I mean this with kindness as my life's been touched by suicide too. Do you think it's possible for someone to just kind of lose control/snap and their body goes into autopilot and does it? Like as easily as I can lose my temper and raise my voice with my kids after a tough day/week. Or do you think it's always more intentional/thought-out?

I’m the upthread suicide survivor. And speaking only for myself, I fought hard for over a year. Medication. Counseling. Getting out of bed and taking a walk. Going to work. Trying to take care of my kids. But it didn’t get better. It literally was a long, dark tunnel and I could find the light at the end. I kept looking for it and waiting and struggling. And at some point, I was just too exhausted to light anymore. It’s holding on to a life preserver for days and waiting to be resumed, and eventually being too tired to hang on anymore.

So no— not a loss of control. Not a bolt out of nowhere. I was saved because my husband tried to call from work and couldn’t find me. In 2005 pre-smartphone would not have worried too much. But left work and came home because he knew. But that’s me.

[Anonymous]

"The average rate for suicide among American college students is about 6.5 to 7.5 per 100,000 people. With seven suicides in 20 months at a school with about 24,000 students, Penn’s rate was more than double the national average"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How terrible.

My nephew was at UPenn and transferred after the first year. He's at another ivy and much happier now. He cautioned my DD from seriously looking there. He never gave any specific reasons other than "it's depressing" and it "sucks the fun out of everything".

My husband went to Penn for undergrad and basically describes it as: hyper-striver, soul-sucking, fake, and back-biting.

[Anonymous]

I went to mental health a couple times during college and noticed the people running it were weirdos -- which circles back to many people pursue the study of psychology because they want to figure out their own issues. I also noticed that basically all of the men working there were gay. I believe there's research backing up gay men commit suicide far more than straight? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"The average rate for suicide among American college students is about 6.5 to 7.5 per 100,000 people. With seven suicides in 20 months at a school with about 24,000 students, Penn’s rate was more than double the national average"

I would only be concerned if it was high year after year. A one year higher than average means nothing. Averages are just that - a mean or higher and lower rates. It isn't that every school hits the average every year. You will find that most schools have some years with no suicides, and the next year it might be higher than average, and the next year average and the next lower than average. I would only be concerned if a school consistently had higher than average rates.

[Anonymous]

You are quite mixed up in your conclusions (and stereotypes). I almost don’t know where to begin

[Anonymous]

That post was directed at 17:46

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You are quite mixed up in your conclusions (and stereotypes). I almost don’t know where to begin

Yes or no gay men commit suicide more than straight per capita?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t understand blaming the school. Seems ridiculous.

Environment matters, from birth onward.
And yes, genes also matter.

I also don’t understand blaming his employer? I assume something was going on in his personal life and likely had long-standing mental health issues. Peace to his family.