Destination Bat Mitzvah

[Anonymous]

OP I actually think your resistance to going is more because of your heritage and the sort of "expected reverence" that you seem to imply your family expects of you WRT Israel. Israel is HIGH on my travel list bc everyone I know who goes (FWIW I have a bunch of family who each ended up going in the last few years, none of whome are Jewish) raves about the sites, scene, culture, etc. I think if you viewed it like you might traveling to Spain, Croatia, or somewhere else without the more emotional /family back story to it, you might realize it's a great opportunity to go on a fun extended family adventure

[Anonymous]

Hell no.

[Anonymous]

Will your DD have a Bat Mitzvah?

[Anonymous]

I think it’s your DH that is unreasonable here. This is a big day for your Niece and your family. Just because your DH is not Jewish doesn’t mean he should not support you or celebrate with family. He also is being a jerk about letting your DD go. Why is he so against Judaism and your family? He clearly is trying to prevent DD from going. I would take her out of school for a week...this experience is way more than she’d learn in a classroom...why deny her this opportunity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s your DH that is unreasonable here. This is a big day for your Niece and your family. Just because your DH is not Jewish doesn’t mean he should not support you or celebrate with family. He also is being a jerk about letting your DD go. Why is he so against Judaism and your family? He clearly is trying to prevent DD from going. I would take her out of school for a week...this experience is way more than she’d learn in a classroom...why deny her this opportunity?

I wanted to add that I am not Jewish and ask is the real issue that DH is a cheapskate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s no way I would drop thousands of dollars and burn vacation days for my niece’s church trip.

+1. I’m resentful of even local bar/bat mitzvahs when the families are clearly secular. If you are truly religious, I get it. Else, it’s just a HUGE gift grab.

+100

[Anonymous]

Of go with your DD on the extended tour simply to see the history. Not sure I’d join the rest of the family if your not keen on the orthodox view. I’d just do my own thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I actually think your resistance to going is more because of your heritage and the sort of "expected reverence" that you seem to imply your family expects of you WRT Israel. Israel is HIGH on my travel list bc everyone I know who goes (FWIW I have a bunch of family who each ended up going in the last few years, none of whome are Jewish) raves about the sites, scene, culture, etc. I think if you viewed it like you might traveling to Spain, Croatia, or somewhere else without the more emotional /family back story to it, you might realize it's a great opportunity to go on a fun extended family adventure

OP here. I think that’s an incredibly insightful point. I think I’m definitely bristling because this is being presented as an “opportunity” rather than a tremendous ask

To answer some other points. When I said go for 48 hours, I meant 48 hours in the country. Not start to finish! Not sure if that makes it seem any less insane, but that’s what’s being paid for. The entire trip is 12 days.

I also don’t think my husband is being entirely unreasonable. He had no xissues, like one would think, with the local bat mitzvah...or even the several we’ve travelled up and down the east cost for. I get that a weeklong trip to Israel could be a wonderful experience. It’s just not at the top of our list. We have trips planned to England and Greece in the next few years. But., if the main focus were a great extended family holiday, then, I think you sit down and agree on location and timing. I do feel kind of manipulated by the fact it’s tied to the bat mitzvah to the point where a “no” holds so much more weight. We gone on a couple extended family trips with my brother and mother, so it’s not like it’s a foreign concept. But, usually they are the ones with severe date or location restrictions. Being expected to drop everything and take the trip on their time table does rankle.

And, yes, our daughter has Bat Mitvah scheduled. It’s local

Finally, I’m fairly certain the ceremony in Israel isn’t going to Orthodox.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would go on my own. I'm not Jewish but I think the bat mitzvah tradition is so cool and meaningful - I wish we had something similar in my culture. I also think you are giving Israel the short-shrift. It *is* a super amazing place - with something for everyone. I think you would enjoy it more than you think you will (even if you never feel any kind of spiritual connection to is).

I travel a ton and you can get by on adrenaline on the first day and jet lag really kicks in on the second - you might be able to coast through and just collapse on the plane ride back.

But your mom and brother are being completely unreasonable and rude. Once you make your decision, work to just shut them down. "Mom, Larlo, just stop. This is what works for our family - that I come on my own. I'm excited to be a part of Larla's special milestone but don't ruin for me with all the complaining." Or "Mom, Larlo, We will be excited to celebrate Larla after the bat mitzvah when you all get back, but it's just not going to work for our family to come. Please just focus on Larla and her special day and stop hounding me about this."

I would not take my tween out of school for this given the background.

I mean...everyone?

***DUCKS***

[Anonymous]

" I’m resentful of even local bar/bat mitzvahs when the families are clearly secular. If you are truly religious, I get it. Else, it’s just a HUGE gift grab."

Anyone who believes this is wrong. A bar and bat mitzvah is an incredibly intense thing a young person goes through. They work their butts off, for many years to learn this foreign language, and chanting from the Torah is intensely difficult! It's in a foreign language, even the letters are different, and Torah is written with no vowels. And they are chanting solo in front of relatives and friends - because that's something they would just love to do at anytime - NOT!

You "think" someone is "clearly secular?" How dare you! Religion is an intensely personal thing, and you have no idea what others think. As far as a gift grab, I assure you, as someone who has thrown 3, the cost of the event is several times more than whatever the kid gets in cash and gift cards.

Try learning about other people's religion, rather than being so judgmental. Because all of you who think this are just plain wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I actually think your resistance to going is more because of your heritage and the sort of "expected reverence" that you seem to imply your family expects of you WRT Israel. Israel is HIGH on my travel list bc everyone I know who goes (FWIW I have a bunch of family who each ended up going in the last few years, none of whome are Jewish) raves about the sites, scene, culture, etc. I think if you viewed it like you might traveling to Spain, Croatia, or somewhere else without the more emotional /family back story to it, you might realize it's a great opportunity to go on a fun extended family adventure

OP here. I think that’s an incredibly insightful point. I think I’m definitely bristling because this is being presented as an “opportunity” rather than a tremendous ask

To answer some other points. When I said go for 48 hours, I meant 48 hours in the country. Not start to finish! Not sure if that makes it seem any less insane, but that’s what’s being paid for. The entire trip is 12 days.

I also don’t think my husband is being entirely unreasonable. He had no xissues, like one would think, with the local bat mitzvah...or even the several we’ve travelled up and down the east cost for. I get that a weeklong trip to Israel could be a wonderful experience. It’s just not at the top of our list. We have trips planned to England and Greece in the next few years. But., if the main focus were a great extended family holiday, then, I think you sit down and agree on location and timing. I do feel kind of manipulated by the fact it’s tied to the bat mitzvah to the point where a “no” holds so much more weight. We gone on a couple extended family trips with my brother and mother, so it’s not like it’s a foreign concept. But, usually they are the ones with severe date or location restrictions. Being expected to drop everything and take the trip on their time table does rankle.

And, yes, our daughter has Bat Mitvah scheduled. It’s local

Finally, I’m fairly certain the ceremony in Israel isn’t going to Orthodox.

As an aside, if you go, even if 48 hrs paid for, do yourself a favor and spring for another hotel night (somewhere) on your own. You can get an inexpensive hotel room in a nice area and the Marginal cost is not that high. Go to Tel Aviv maybe, spring for a night at one of the beach hotels (herods, Leonardo, or Ramada if cost is a concern, but there r really a lot), and enjoy the beach, the culture, the food, the port etc. Take a cheap walking tour of you want. Explore on your own. Do not much. Bonus : you are closer to the airport than Jerusalem and could even take the train back to the airport. Basically, if time allows the marginal cost of adding a day like this may not be high and would make a trip like this more palatable.

[Anonymous]

You don't feel like going, then don't go
It's unreasonable to expect people to fly this far for an event.

I am a people pleaser but sometimes it's too much and in your case I wouldn't want to go either.
I love my family and friends but I wouldn't spend that much on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP I actually think your resistance to going is more because of your heritage and the sort of "expected reverence" that you seem to imply your family expects of you WRT Israel. Israel is HIGH on my travel list bc everyone I know who goes (FWIW I have a bunch of family who each ended up going in the last few years, none of whome are Jewish) raves about the sites, scene, culture, etc. I think if you viewed it like you might traveling to Spain, Croatia, or somewhere else without the more emotional /family back story to it, you might realize it's a great opportunity to go on a fun extended family adventure

That's easy to say, but if OP is like many of us and has limited vacation time, she has other vacations she'd like to take, and going on this one means missing a week of vacation with her family, at a place of their choosing. Not to mention airfare and other expenses associated with making it a real vacation. And I don't pull my kid out of school for vacations, so the timing matters, too.

Also, I don't respond well to emotional blackmail. If OP was just asking if she should go, that would be one thing, but we already know that her mother and brother are being dicks about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I actually think your resistance to going is more because of your heritage and the sort of "expected reverence" that you seem to imply your family expects of you WRT Israel. Israel is HIGH on my travel list bc everyone I know who goes (FWIW I have a bunch of family who each ended up going in the last few years, none of whome are Jewish) raves about the sites, scene, culture, etc. I think if you viewed it like you might traveling to Spain, Croatia, or somewhere else without the more emotional /family back story to it, you might realize it's a great opportunity to go on a fun extended family adventure

That's easy to say, but if OP is like many of us and has limited vacation time, she has other vacations she'd like to take, and going on this one means missing a week of vacation with her family, at a place of their choosing. Not to mention airfare and other expenses associated with making it a real vacation. And I don't pull my kid out of school for vacations, so the timing matters, too.

Also, I don't respond well to emotional blackmail. If OP was just asking if she should go, that would be one thing, but we already know that her mother and brother are being dicks about it.

True dis. I don't like to burn any vacation days on my in-law family because it's not a vacation. A) I don't like them and B) it brings up all kinds of emotions etc for my spouse so there's extra partner work as well. I don't care if they charter a private yacht in the Greek isles and invite us gratis - it's not a vacation. I'd rather go on a Paula Deen cruise out of Baltimore with my spouse/kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:" I’m resentful of even local bar/bat mitzvahs when the families are clearly secular. If you are truly religious, I get it. Else, it’s just a HUGE gift grab."

Anyone who believes this is wrong. A bar and bat mitzvah is an incredibly intense thing a young person goes through. They work their butts off, for many years to learn this foreign language, and chanting from the Torah is intensely difficult! It's in a foreign language, even the letters are different, and Torah is written with no vowels. And they are chanting solo in front of relatives and friends - because that's something they would just love to do at anytime - NOT!

You "think" someone is "clearly secular?" How dare you! Religion is an intensely personal thing, and you have no idea what others think. As far as a gift grab, I assure you, as someone who has thrown 3, the cost of the event is several times more than whatever the kid gets in cash and gift cards.

Try learning about other people's religion, rather than being so judgmental. Because all of you who think this are just plain wrong.

Meh. We all know those families who do not join a temple until oldest needs to start bar/bat mitzvahs classes, do not attend Shabbat services, do not fast on Yom Kippur, etc. They go through the motions for the mitzvah and then promptly drop the temple membership and never attend again. If this does not describe you, then I am not talking about you. Spare me the faux outrage.