MERLD / receptive expressive language disorder and friendships

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has HFA, but qualified as mixed expressive and receptive language disorder at one point. Now, while expressive and receptive are considered bottom of normal range there still are language issues. He has friends. He had friends even at the worst of it, but back in preschool it was orchestrated by parents. Now he makes friends on his own. Social skills are a work in progress-lots of improvements, but I still see major differences from NT peers. His friends are both kids with special needs and typically developing peers. I do think in addition to ST, and social skills work mainstream at school and regular camps have helped tremendously.

MERLD kids often do not fit into social skills classes as they are more for ADHD/ADD and behaviors and needs can be very different.

My child did not have behavior issues. The child with the parent who insisted their kid had MERLD did though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has HFA, but qualified as mixed expressive and receptive language disorder at one point. Now, while expressive and receptive are considered bottom of normal range there still are language issues. He has friends. He had friends even at the worst of it, but back in preschool it was orchestrated by parents. Now he makes friends on his own. Social skills are a work in progress-lots of improvements, but I still see major differences from NT peers. His friends are both kids with special needs and typically developing peers. I do think in addition to ST, and social skills work mainstream at school and regular camps have helped tremendously.

MERLD kids often do not fit into social skills classes as they are more for ADHD/ADD and behaviors and needs can be very different.

I would focus more on the approach the group uses rather than the diagnosis you imagine the other kids have. My son has pragmatic language disorder as well as expressive language delays (his receptive is now "average" though during previous testings it was not). He has been in a social skills group for years (but not in DC area) with kids with ASD, ADHD, and LD (most of them have at least 2 of these diagnoses, some all 3, I know this because we parents have had lots of time to chat in the waiting room). The therapist loosely uses a curriculum from the Social Thinking work of Michelle Garcia Winner. It's a great match for all of them. The rigid kids work on being flexible, the chatty kids work on making space for other people to participate in the conversation, too, the grabby handsy kids work on understanding why other kids don't like that and what they can do instead, and my kid works on being assertive and staying on topic as best he can (because he can also lose the thread of a conversation and he needed to learn to say "wait, what?" rather than just wander away or go off on a tangent).

Also, as the parent of two boys I have to say I think being a girl with a language delay is probably more of a challenge than it is for a boy. My kid is not particularly cool or athletic, but in 4th grade he is largely accepted because he can play football at recess with out being a jerk and knows how to talk sports and video games. The girls seem to already have a very complex social hierarchy and, the days I have been there for lunch and recess, spend most of their time not engaged in an activity but negotiating some self created drama. I think it's normal, but probably perplexing to anyone who is behind language or social wise. Maybe it would help to get your daughter engaged in some hobbies that she can do with other kids so that there is an activity to focus on (sports, arts, theater, dance, whatever). Then they have something in common to do and to talk about. It might not necessarily translate into school friends, but friendships outside of school can be great, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MERLD as a disorder does not exist anymore, but maybe if you post it every few weeks it will be put back into the DSM, right?
Nice try Mary.

I am so tired of this attitude and it is very unhelpful to parents. While it is true that MERLD is no longer the name of a diagnosis in the DSM anymore, that does not mean that the constellation of symptoms that was formerly described as MERLD still exists, it is just described differently in DSM-5. DSM-V now uses "language disorder' which encompasses what were formally "expressive disorder" and "mixed expressive receptive disorder."

BTW,

Dyslexia is now "reading disorder" with various specifiers as applicable

Dysgraphia is called "disorder of written expression"

Phonological Disorder is now called "speech sound disorder"

Just like over the years "manic depression" has become "bipolar depression"

The APA did remove MERLD because they stopped believing it existed, they removed it because they thought it was more useful to label it in a different way as a language disorder using specific descriptors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MERLD as a disorder does not exist anymore, but maybe if you post it every few weeks it will be put back into the DSM, right?
Nice try Mary.

I am so tired of this attitude and it is very unhelpful to parents. While it is true that MERLD is no longer the name of a diagnosis in the DSM anymore, that does not mean that the constellation of symptoms that was formerly described as MERLD still exists, it is just described differently in DSM-5. DSM-V now uses "language disorder' which encompasses what were formally "expressive disorder" and "mixed expressive receptive disorder."

BTW,

Dyslexia is now "reading disorder" with various specifiers as applicable

Dysgraphia is called "disorder of written expression"

Phonological Disorder is now called "speech sound disorder"

Just like over the years "manic depression" has become "bipolar depression"

The APA did remove MERLD because they stopped believing it existed, they removed it because they thought it was more useful to label it in a different way as a language disorder using specific descriptors.

Except its not useful to tell someone your child has a language disorder, especially if they have receptive issues as most people don't get receptive issues and just assume the child is bad, difficult or dumb.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has HFA, but qualified as mixed expressive and receptive language disorder at one point. Now, while expressive and receptive are considered bottom of normal range there still are language issues. He has friends. He had friends even at the worst of it, but back in preschool it was orchestrated by parents. Now he makes friends on his own. Social skills are a work in progress-lots of improvements, but I still see major differences from NT peers. His friends are both kids with special needs and typically developing peers. I do think in addition to ST, and social skills work mainstream at school and regular camps have helped tremendously.

MERLD kids often do not fit into social skills classes as they are more for ADHD/ADD and behaviors and needs can be very different.

I would focus more on the approach the group uses rather than the diagnosis you imagine the other kids have. My son has pragmatic language disorder as well as expressive language delays (his receptive is now "average" though during previous testings it was not). He has been in a social skills group for years (but not in DC area) with kids with ASD, ADHD, and LD (most of them have at least 2 of these diagnoses, some all 3, I know this because we parents have had lots of time to chat in the waiting room). The therapist loosely uses a curriculum from the Social Thinking work of Michelle Garcia Winner. It's a great match for all of them. The rigid kids work on being flexible, the chatty kids work on making space for other people to participate in the conversation, too, the grabby handsy kids work on understanding why other kids don't like that and what they can do instead, and my kid works on being assertive and staying on topic as best he can (because he can also lose the thread of a conversation and he needed to learn to say "wait, what?" rather than just wander away or go off on a tangent).

Also, as the parent of two boys I have to say I think being a girl with a language delay is probably more of a challenge than it is for a boy. My kid is not particularly cool or athletic, but in 4th grade he is largely accepted because he can play football at recess with out being a jerk and knows how to talk sports and video games. The girls seem to already have a very complex social hierarchy and, the days I have been there for lunch and recess, spend most of their time not engaged in an activity but negotiating some self created drama. I think it's normal, but probably perplexing to anyone who is behind language or social wise. Maybe it would help to get your daughter engaged in some hobbies that she can do with other kids so that there is an activity to focus on (sports, arts, theater, dance, whatever). Then they have something in common to do and to talk about. It might not necessarily translate into school friends, but friendships outside of school can be great, too.

Logically you are correct but it depends on the child. Mine is bothered greatly by grabbing kids and kids who are annoying. So, a social skills class with ADHD and ASD would not be best. Mine had a tuff time with the behaviors in a mixed SN and regular classroom as several kids were very loud/distracting and grabby. The grabbing (which may have been hugging) was really upsetting to the point my child didn't want to go to school.

Often inclusive activities can be just as good or better. We worked hard to try many activities and then narrow it down to a reasonable amount based off preferences. Cub scouts is good for being inclusive. We have several girls in our troop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has HFA, but qualified as mixed expressive and receptive language disorder at one point. Now, while expressive and receptive are considered bottom of normal range there still are language issues. He has friends. He had friends even at the worst of it, but back in preschool it was orchestrated by parents. Now he makes friends on his own. Social skills are a work in progress-lots of improvements, but I still see major differences from NT peers. His friends are both kids with special needs and typically developing peers. I do think in addition to ST, and social skills work mainstream at school and regular camps have helped tremendously.

MERLD kids often do not fit into social skills classes as they are more for ADHD/ADD and behaviors and needs can be very different.

My child did not have behavior issues. The child with the parent who insisted their kid had MERLD did though.

Some MERLD kids do have behavioral issues, others don't. Some depends on if kids have dual diagnosis or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MERLD as a disorder does not exist anymore, but maybe if you post it every few weeks it will be put back into the DSM, right?
Nice try Mary.

I am so tired of this attitude and it is very unhelpful to parents. While it is true that MERLD is no longer the name of a diagnosis in the DSM anymore, that does not mean that the constellation of symptoms that was formerly described as MERLD still exists, it is just described differently in DSM-5. DSM-V now uses "language disorder' which encompasses what were formally "expressive disorder" and "mixed expressive receptive disorder."

BTW,

Dyslexia is now "reading disorder" with various specifiers as applicable

Dysgraphia is called "disorder of written expression"

Phonological Disorder is now called "speech sound disorder"

Just like over the years "manic depression" has become "bipolar depression"

The APA did remove MERLD because they stopped believing it existed, they removed it because they thought it was more useful to label it in a different way as a language disorder using specific descriptors.

Except its not useful to tell someone your child has a language disorder, especially if they have receptive issues as most people don't get receptive issues and just assume the child is bad, difficult or dumb.

This has nothing to do with label or the type of problem. This is something every SN parent has to learn.

[Anonymous]

I know for a fact that kids are still diagnosed with MERLD daily, because their parents flock to our MERLD Facebook groups. So it is mythology that MERLD disappeared as a diagnosis on a practical basis. Language Impairmentis too generic to be truly useful..

MERLD is pretty specific and feels like the opposite of the saying "if you meet one kid with autism, you have met one kid with autism." MERLD kids are strikingly similar as a group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know for a fact that kids are still diagnosed with MERLD daily, because their parents flock to our MERLD Facebook groups. So it is mythology that MERLD disappeared as a diagnosis on a practical basis. Language Impairmentis too generic to be truly useful..

MERLD is pretty specific and feels like the opposite of the saying "if you meet one kid with autism, you have met one kid with autism." MERLD kids are strikingly similar as a group.

No, MERLD kids can be very different. Some have multiple diagnosis, some just have a language disorder. They often have a similar time path for developing language but that's about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know for a fact that kids are still diagnosed with MERLD daily, because their parents flock to our MERLD Facebook groups. So it is mythology that MERLD disappeared as a diagnosis on a practical basis. Language Impairmentis too generic to be truly useful..

MERLD is pretty specific and feels like the opposite of the saying "if you meet one kid with autism, you have met one kid with autism." MERLD kids are strikingly similar as a group.

Language Impairment is one of the educational categories under IDEA. There are only 13 categories so naturally they well tend to be generic. The term is not an actual medical diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know for a fact that kids are still diagnosed with MERLD daily, because their parents flock to our MERLD Facebook groups. So it is mythology that MERLD disappeared as a diagnosis on a practical basis. Language Impairmentis too generic to be truly useful..

MERLD is pretty specific and feels like the opposite of the saying "if you meet one kid with autism, you have met one kid with autism." MERLD kids are strikingly similar as a group.

Language Impairment is one of the educational categories under IDEA. There are only 13 categories so naturally they well tend to be generic. The term is not an actual medical diagnosis.

Some on here only rely on public/county services and everything to them is about the educational categories/IEP vs. private medical terms with private therapies.

[Anonymous]

P.p of 4yo, can I have a link to a merld group? Looking for support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has HFA, but qualified as mixed expressive and receptive language disorder at one point. Now, while expressive and receptive are considered bottom of normal range there still are language issues. He has friends. He had friends even at the worst of it, but back in preschool it was orchestrated by parents. Now he makes friends on his own. Social skills are a work in progress-lots of improvements, but I still see major differences from NT peers. His friends are both kids with special needs and typically developing peers. I do think in addition to ST, and social skills work mainstream at school and regular camps have helped tremendously.

MERLD kids often do not fit into social skills classes as they are more for ADHD/ADD and behaviors and needs can be very different.

I would focus more on the approach the group uses rather than the diagnosis you imagine the other kids have. My son has pragmatic language disorder as well as expressive language delays (his receptive is now "average" though during previous testings it was not). He has been in a social skills group for years (but not in DC area) with kids with ASD, ADHD, and LD (most of them have at least 2 of these diagnoses, some all 3, I know this because we parents have had lots of time to chat in the waiting room). The therapist loosely uses a curriculum from the Social Thinking work of Michelle Garcia Winner. It's a great match for all of them. The rigid kids work on being flexible, the chatty kids work on making space for other people to participate in the conversation, too, the grabby handsy kids work on understanding why other kids don't like that and what they can do instead, and my kid works on being assertive and staying on topic as best he can (because he can also lose the thread of a conversation and he needed to learn to say "wait, what?" rather than just wander away or go off on a tangent).

Also, as the parent of two boys I have to say I think being a girl with a language delay is probably more of a challenge than it is for a boy. My kid is not particularly cool or athletic, but in 4th grade he is largely accepted because he can play football at recess with out being a jerk and knows how to talk sports and video games. The girls seem to already have a very complex social hierarchy and, the days I have been there for lunch and recess, spend most of their time not engaged in an activity but negotiating some self created drama. I think it's normal, but probably perplexing to anyone who is behind language or social wise. Maybe it would help to get your daughter engaged in some hobbies that she can do with other kids so that there is an activity to focus on (sports, arts, theater, dance, whatever). Then they have something in common to do and to talk about. It might not necessarily translate into school friends, but friendships outside of school can be great, too.

Logically you are correct but it depends on the child. Mine is bothered greatly by grabbing kids and kids who are annoying. So, a social skills class with ADHD and ASD would not be best. Mine had a tuff time with the behaviors in a mixed SN and regular classroom as several kids were very loud/distracting and grabby. The grabbing (which may have been hugging) was really upsetting to the point my child didn't want to go to school.

Often inclusive activities can be just as good or better. We worked hard to try many activities and then narrow it down to a reasonable amount based off preferences. Cub scouts is good for being inclusive. We have several girls in our troop.

True, it depends on the individual group of kids and the skill of the therapist. My child was also very uncomfortable around grabby, bossy kids. The therapist and I talked about it when he enrolled and I felt like there was enough structure and supervision that he could work on being assertive with those kids while they worked on respecting his limits. It took a while but it's been great for him. Those boys have given him opportunity to work on skills he would not have gotten with a group of kids just like him (which I couldn't find, anyway).

But that was 1 hour a week with 2 adults and 5 kids. I would not have wanted him in the typical "self-contained" class in our local public schools. The funding and support is not good here and quiet kids get ignored because there is just too much for the teachers to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:P.p of 4yo, can I have a link to a merld group? Looking for support.

Natural Late Talkers on Facebook. It's a closed group and you have to ask to join, and it might take a day or two to get access, but it's a good, supportive forum and they have rules to keep things from veering off into special diets, supplements, and whatnot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:P.p of 4yo, can I have a link to a merld group? Looking for support.

Natural Late Talkers on Facebook. It's a closed group and you have to ask to join, and it might take a day or two to get access, but it's a good, supportive forum and they have rules to keep things from veering off into special diets, supplements, and whatnot.

Yes, this group is terrific.

Such a relief after the DCUM, which is openly hostile to MERLD, as we see in every thread started by a MERLD parent.