Thoughts on buying a house with my mother....

[Anonymous]

Those who say no don't know what it's like to totally enjoy your mother's company and to even want to personally help care for her when that becomes necessary. I know what it's like and it's awesome! My husband loved my mother too, and vice versa. We shared a house for years until many husband and I split up.then my sister and her family moved into the house and lived with mom, which they totally enjoyed as well.

I lived close by the last five years of her life and all four siblings helped with her care and enjoyed her company.

We did not need a lawyer or estate planner to come up with a fair agreement that was no problem even when it came time to divide up her share of the house after she died.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My mother is retiring this year and has asked if my husband and I would go in with her to buy a home that has a MIL suite. She no longer wants to live by herself, but she wants to still live in a house with a yard for her dogs. She's going to put down a 65% down payment and we will take out the remaining mortgage. All three of us will be on the deed for the home and the mortgage, but my husband and I would pay the mortgage, taxes, home insurance, and utilities. My mother would basically be living expense free. She said that she would leave my husband and I the house in her will. This is a home that we would not be able to afford purchasing on our own in a very nice area, so I believe it is a good investment. We will also be able to keep the money we will get from selling our current home which will be around 30k. My husband and I get along very well with my mother and I am happy to live with her as long as we both have our own space. I do have siblings though and I just want to make sure the home would go to my husband and I free and clear if anything happened to her. Thoughts and concerns?

Why does her name have to be on the house at all? Can't she just give you the money and the house goes in your name and your husband's with the understanding that she'll live in the MIL suite?

Because the OP would get clobbered with taxes.

Nonsense. What taxes?

Op here and we were wondering about taxes if she were just to gift it to us. I think it would just go towards our lifetime gift allowance, we would have to file a gift tax form though. Everyone has made some very good points, so thank you so much for the advice. The down payment would be about half of her retirement funds, but she may receive a substantial inheritance. As far as taking her off the deed down the line, would that be difficult? From my research it looks like it would be fairly simple? Once again thank you.

It’s easy, that’s not the issue. The problem is that nursing homes and Medicaid have “lookback” periods. It’s to prevent people from giving away assets to hide them and then collecting government assistance. If your mom had to go on Medicaid Long term care and let’s say the care costs the government 200k, the government will say YOU owe them 200k (from the house).

This is probably a stupid question, but wouldn't my mom have Medicare not Medicaid?

Its not a stupid question at all, its something most people don't understand. Medicare doesn't pay for long term care (meaning a nursing home). If you need to go into a nursing home, you pay for it yourself for as long as you can. Then, when you are poor, you go on Medicaid and Medicaid pays for the nursing home. If you try to give your money away when you are old so that you don't have to use it to pay for long term care, the government will look at where and when you gave your money away, and if it was within 5 years of your going on medicaid they will come after the money, under the assumption you were trying to skirt the law.

OP here and thank you for explaining this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother is retiring this year and has asked if my husband and I would go in with her to buy a home that has a MIL suite. She no longer wants to live by herself, but she wants to still live in a house with a yard for her dogs. She's going to put down a 65% down payment and we will take out the remaining mortgage. All three of us will be on the deed for the home and the mortgage, but my husband and I would pay the mortgage, taxes, home insurance, and utilities. My mother would basically be living expense free. She said that she would leave my husband and I the house in her will. This is a home that we would not be able to afford purchasing on our own in a very nice area, so I believe it is a good investment. We will also be able to keep the money we will get from selling our current home which will be around 30k. My husband and I get along very well with my mother and I am happy to live with her as long as we both have our own space. I do have siblings though and I just want to make sure the home would go to my husband and I free and clear if anything happened to her. Thoughts and concerns?

Why does her name have to be on the house at all? Can't she just give you the money and the house goes in your name and your husband's with the understanding that she'll live in the MIL suite?

Because the OP would get clobbered with taxes.

Nonsense. What taxes?

Op here and we were wondering about taxes if she were just to gift it to us. I think it would just go towards our lifetime gift allowance, we would have to file a gift tax form though. Everyone has made some very good points, so thank you so much for the advice. The down payment would be about half of her retirement funds, but she may receive a substantial inheritance. As far as taking her off the deed down the line, would that be difficult? From my research it looks like it would be fairly simple? Once again thank you.

Wrong. It would go towards HER lifetime gift allowance. It simply reduces the amount she can pass along not subject to gift taxes. The amount is around $5 million now so unless you’re planning to inherit this much, I wouldn’t be remotely concerned about her estate tax down the road.

Actually, the lifetime exclusion is now $12.5 million. That could change, but it isn't likely to be lowered enough for one house to trigger it. Seriously -- this is a good place to find out what questions you need to ask, but get advice from a good estate planning attorney.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those who say no don't know what it's like to totally enjoy your mother's company and to even want to personally help care for her when that becomes necessary. I know what it's like and it's awesome! My husband loved my mother too, and vice versa. We shared a house for years until many husband and I split up.then my sister and her family moved into the house and lived with mom, which they totally enjoyed as well.

I lived close by the last five years of her life and all four siblings helped with her care and enjoyed her company.

We did not need a lawyer or estate planner to come up with a fair agreement that was no problem even when it came time to divide up her share of the house after she died.

I think it's a great idea and would totally live with my mother (if she was still living). However, you were very lucky from a legal standpoint. Our family had a situation where it did not go so well -- the sister who was deeded the house in exchange for taking care of her mother dumper her into a crappy nursing home the minute she qualified for Medicaid. Everyone needs to make sure their interests are protected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who say no don't know what it's like to totally enjoy your mother's company and to even want to personally help care for her when that becomes necessary. I know what it's like and it's awesome! My husband loved my mother too, and vice versa. We shared a house for years until many husband and I split up.then my sister and her family moved into the house and lived with mom, which they totally enjoyed as well.

I lived close by the last five years of her life and all four siblings helped with her care and enjoyed her company.

We did not need a lawyer or estate planner to come up with a fair agreement that was no problem even when it came time to divide up her share of the house after she died.

I think it's a great idea and would totally live with my mother (if she was still living). However, you were very lucky from a legal standpoint. Our family had a situation where it did not go so well -- the sister who was deeded the house in exchange for taking care of her mother dumper her into a crappy nursing home the minute she qualified for Medicaid. Everyone needs to make sure their interests are protected.

You can change her nursing homes but its near impossible to get a medicaid bed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who say no don't know what it's like to totally enjoy your mother's company and to even want to personally help care for her when that becomes necessary. I know what it's like and it's awesome! My husband loved my mother too, and vice versa. We shared a house for years until many husband and I split up.then my sister and her family moved into the house and lived with mom, which they totally enjoyed as well.

I lived close by the last five years of her life and all four siblings helped with her care and enjoyed her company.

We did not need a lawyer or estate planner to come up with a fair agreement that was no problem even when it came time to divide up her share of the house after she died.

I think it's a great idea and would totally live with my mother (if she was still living). However, you were very lucky from a legal standpoint. Our family had a situation where it did not go so well -- the sister who was deeded the house in exchange for taking care of her mother dumper her into a crappy nursing home the minute she qualified for Medicaid. Everyone needs to make sure their interests are protected.

You can change her nursing homes but its near impossible to get a medicaid bed.

This. And since there is a long look back period for one’s assets, it sounds like the facts are massaged or misunderstood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who say no don't know what it's like to totally enjoy your mother's company and to even want to personally help care for her when that becomes necessary. I know what it's like and it's awesome! My husband loved my mother too, and vice versa. We shared a house for years until many husband and I split up.then my sister and her family moved into the house and lived with mom, which they totally enjoyed as well.

I lived close by the last five years of her life and all four siblings helped with her care and enjoyed her company.

We did not need a lawyer or estate planner to come up with a fair agreement that was no problem even when it came time to divide up her share of the house after she died.

I think it's a great idea and would totally live with my mother (if she was still living). However, you were very lucky from a legal standpoint. Our family had a situation where it did not go so well -- the sister who was deeded the house in exchange for taking care of her mother dumper her into a crappy nursing home the minute she qualified for Medicaid. Everyone needs to make sure their interests are protected.

You can change her nursing homes but its near impossible to get a medicaid bed.

This. And since there is a long look back period for one’s assets, it sounds like the facts are massaged or misunderstood.

Nope. There are "Medicaid" beds out there (this was in a different part of the country). It's a long story -- but sibling got deeded a house (next door to residence of Grandmother) for "future care" (was even in writing). After five years, when Granny started to actually need care, she dumped her into a nursing home on Medicaid. Granny had Alzheimer's, but nursing home certified that it was for "medical care." There was an attempt to enforce the written agreement, but local courts there were uninterested.

This is a long way of saying that making a situation like this work requires good faith on everyone's part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who say no don't know what it's like to totally enjoy your mother's company and to even want to personally help care for her when that becomes necessary. I know what it's like and it's awesome! My husband loved my mother too, and vice versa. We shared a house for years until many husband and I split up.then my sister and her family moved into the house and lived with mom, which they totally enjoyed as well.

I lived close by the last five years of her life and all four siblings helped with her care and enjoyed her company.

We did not need a lawyer or estate planner to come up with a fair agreement that was no problem even when it came time to divide up her share of the house after she died.

I think it's a great idea and would totally live with my mother (if she was still living). However, you were very lucky from a legal standpoint. Our family had a situation where it did not go so well -- the sister who was deeded the house in exchange for taking care of her mother dumper her into a crappy nursing home the minute she qualified for Medicaid. Everyone needs to make sure their interests are protected.

You can change her nursing homes but its near impossible to get a medicaid bed.

This. And since there is a long look back period for one’s assets, it sounds like the facts are massaged or misunderstood.

Nope. There are "Medicaid" beds out there (this was in a different part of the country). It's a long story -- but sibling got deeded a house (next door to residence of Grandmother) for "future care" (was even in writing). After five years, when Granny started to actually need care, she dumped her into a nursing home on Medicaid. Granny had Alzheimer's, but nursing home certified that it was for "medical care." There was an attempt to enforce the written agreement, but local courts there were uninterested.

This is a long way of saying that making a situation like this work requires good faith on everyone's part.

Can you tell me who has openings? I'd love to move my MIL to a better nursing home. I have applied and applied and no one will take her once they hear medicaid. We've been on "waitlists" for many years.

The issue is getting approved. You have to prove there are no assets. The hold back is 5 years so what they did was legal. My MIL had her car and other money stolen from her and I had no way to prove where the money went but it was clear we didn't have it. We were lucky the medicaid worker worked with us and helped us get as much documentation as we both could to prove it but it wasn't easy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who say no don't know what it's like to totally enjoy your mother's company and to even want to personally help care for her when that becomes necessary. I know what it's like and it's awesome! My husband loved my mother too, and vice versa. We shared a house for years until many husband and I split up.then my sister and her family moved into the house and lived with mom, which they totally enjoyed as well.

I lived close by the last five years of her life and all four siblings helped with her care and enjoyed her company.

We did not need a lawyer or estate planner to come up with a fair agreement that was no problem even when it came time to divide up her share of the house after she died.

I think it's a great idea and would totally live with my mother (if she was still living). However, you were very lucky from a legal standpoint. Our family had a situation where it did not go so well -- the sister who was deeded the house in exchange for taking care of her mother dumper her into a crappy nursing home the minute she qualified for Medicaid. Everyone needs to make sure their interests are protected.

You can change her nursing homes but its near impossible to get a medicaid bed.

This. And since there is a long look back period for one’s assets, it sounds like the facts are massaged or misunderstood.

Nope. There are "Medicaid" beds out there (this was in a different part of the country). It's a long story -- but sibling got deeded a house (next door to residence of Grandmother) for "future care" (was even in writing). After five years, when Granny started to actually need care, she dumped her into a nursing home on Medicaid. Granny had Alzheimer's, but nursing home certified that it was for "medical care." There was an attempt to enforce the written agreement, but local courts there were uninterested.

This is a long way of saying that making a situation like this work requires good faith on everyone's part.

I agree. I feel like your example is faulting someone who was in over their head.
If she had alzheimer's then she needed much more care than the dd could provide at home. That is a huge burden and the dd would have had to put her in care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Have you lived with her at all since you have been an adult? I have had my mother live with me a few years and it was worth it to buy her a condo so that she wasn't living with us. I definetly suggest a trial of some kind.

We have always been very close and I talk to her daily. She has visited for extended periods of time and the issues we had during those times would be fixed with us both having our own space, specifically both having our own kitchen. My husband also really enjoys her company and is 100% on board. My mother made the transition from parent to friend very smoothly after I moved out.

My mom did this with my grandmother, although they did not put my grandmother’s name on the deed. She ended up passing away at home, so the nursing home situation was never addressed. It worked for them, and I loved seeing my grandmother whenever I visited my parents. They shared a kitchen too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those who say no don't know what it's like to totally enjoy your mother's company and to even want to personally help care for her when that becomes necessary. I know what it's like and it's awesome! My husband loved my mother too, and vice versa. We shared a house for years until many husband and I split up.then my sister and her family moved into the house and lived with mom, which they totally enjoyed as well.

I lived close by the last five years of her life and all four siblings helped with her care and enjoyed her company.

We did not need a lawyer or estate planner to come up with a fair agreement that was no problem even when it came time to divide up her share of the house after she died.

Same with my family. We took care of mom until she passed away, and then we divided things up with no problem at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those who say no don't know what it's like to totally enjoy your mother's company and to even want to personally help care for her when that becomes necessary. I know what it's like and it's awesome! My husband loved my mother too, and vice versa. We shared a house for years until many husband and I split up.then my sister and her family moved into the house and lived with mom, which they totally enjoyed as well.

I lived close by the last five years of her life and all four siblings helped with her care and enjoyed her company.

We did not need a lawyer or estate planner to come up with a fair agreement that was no problem even when it came time to divide up her share of the house after she died.

I think it's a great idea and would totally live with my mother (if she was still living). However, you were very lucky from a legal standpoint. Our family had a situation where it did not go so well -- the sister who was deeded the house in exchange for taking care of her mother dumper her into a crappy nursing home the minute she qualified for Medicaid. Everyone needs to make sure their interests are protected.

You can change her nursing homes but its near impossible to get a medicaid bed.

This. And since there is a long look back period for one’s assets, it sounds like the facts are massaged or misunderstood.

Nope. There are "Medicaid" beds out there (this was in a different part of the country). It's a long story -- but sibling got deeded a house (next door to residence of Grandmother) for "future care" (was even in writing). After five years, when Granny started to actually need care, she dumped her into a nursing home on Medicaid. Granny had Alzheimer's, but nursing home certified that it was for "medical care." There was an attempt to enforce the written agreement, but local courts there were uninterested.

This is a long way of saying that making a situation like this work requires good faith on everyone's part.

I agree. I feel like your example is faulting someone who was in over their head.
If she had alzheimer's then she needed much more care than the dd could provide at home. That is a huge burden and the dd would have had to put her in care.

All the same, the sibling could have sold the house or split the inherited amount with the other siblings or sold the house to pay for a better nursing home. My read on this is that the sibling kept the nice house without sharing any of the inheritance or trying to improve the situation for the mother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My mother is retiring this year and has asked if my husband and I would go in with her to buy a home that has a MIL suite. She no longer wants to live by herself, but she wants to still live in a house with a yard for her dogs. She's going to put down a 65% down payment and we will take out the remaining mortgage. All three of us will be on the deed for the home and the mortgage, but my husband and I would pay the mortgage, taxes, home insurance, and utilities. My mother would basically be living expense free. She said that she would leave my husband and I the house in her will. This is a home that we would not be able to afford purchasing on our own in a very nice area, so I believe it is a good investment. We will also be able to keep the money we will get from selling our current home which will be around 30k. My husband and I get along very well with my mother and I am happy to live with her as long as we both have our own space. I do have siblings though and I just want to make sure the home would go to my husband and I free and clear if anything happened to her. Thoughts and concerns?

Why does her name have to be on the house at all? Can't she just give you the money and the house goes in your name and your husband's with the understanding that she'll live in the MIL suite?

Because the OP would get clobbered with taxes.

This is a valid concern but in some states owning property through joint tenants with right of survivorship skirts the issue. The property simply passes to the remaining joint tenant by operation of law at death and Medicaid can’t put a lien on it.

If you are seriously concerned about Medicaid then you should buy the house yourself even with a substantial gift from her. Yes Medicaid will look back 5 years on the gift but after you are in the clear. You can then own the house outright and she can stay there. She will appear less wealthy on paper which helps with qualifying for Medicaid.

Nonsense. What taxes?

Op here and we were wondering about taxes if she were just to gift it to us. I think it would just go towards our lifetime gift allowance, we would have to file a gift tax form though. Everyone has made some very good points, so thank you so much for the advice. The down payment would be about half of her retirement funds, but she may receive a substantial inheritance. As far as taking her off the deed down the line, would that be difficult? From my research it looks like it would be fairly simple? Once again thank you.

It’s easy, that’s not the issue. The problem is that nursing homes and Medicaid have “lookback” periods. It’s to prevent people from giving away assets to hide them and then collecting government assistance. If your mom had to go on Medicaid Long term care and let’s say the care costs the government 200k, the government will say YOU owe them 200k (from the house).

This is probably a stupid question, but wouldn't my mom have Medicare not Medicaid?

Its not a stupid question at all, its something most people don't understand. Medicare doesn't pay for long term care (meaning a nursing home). If you need to go into a nursing home, you pay for it yourself for as long as you can. Then, when you are poor, you go on Medicaid and Medicaid pays for the nursing home. If you try to give your money away when you are old so that you don't have to use it to pay for long term care, the government will look at where and when you gave your money away, and if it was within 5 years of your going on medicaid they will come after the money, under the assumption you were trying to skirt the law.

OP here and thank you for explaining this.

[Anonymous]

For a title company, I recommend Eisen and Rome. They helped us when we bought a house with friends. Sounds like you'd want to hold the home as joint tenants with right of survivorship but they would be able to guide you on that aspect. It sounds like a great arrangement.