Ivy League Aspirations Unleashed (NYT Q&A with Harvard's DofA)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many prestigious colleges and universities need academically capable folk on their crews, squash, swimming and water polo teams. Do not kid yourself, it is strategic to consider these sports .... Of course, the well roundedness also is attractive for admission to these typically New England colleges and universities.

That's probably true that having experience in these sports might be attractive to some colleges, but it's not fair to suggest that the only reason kids do these sports is to get some secret competitive advantage for college. (In the words of one PP: "Parents and kids genuinely choose sports and activities just for college. How many kids would do crew [rowing a boat] if not for college?")

I'm not 7:54, but I think she's right -- some families/kids choose these sports because they're genuinely interested. My partner rowed in college (but not before college) and wants our kids to try it, not to improve college chances, but because they might enjoy it. Not everyone in DC is making all their life choices based on how it might improve their college admissions profile. DCUM just makes it seem that way.

[Anonymous]

I was a fellow child of the 80s who got into an Ivy casually, like organic girl. That world is no more, sadly. The number of applicants has more than doubled, and the quality of applicants has increased. It is truly a lottery among highly qualified students. On the one hand, I think the increased democratization of the process is a wonderful thing for our society. On the other hand, it makes the process harder and more stressful for all the kids applying. I think it is a little unjust for us to look down on all the strategizing/thinking ahead that kids today need to do, given that our easy-in of 15-20 years ago doesn't exist anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was a fellow child of the 80s who got into an Ivy casually, like organic girl. That world is no more, sadly. The number of applicants has more than doubled, and the quality of applicants has increased. It is truly a lottery among highly qualified students. On the one hand, I think the increased democratization of the process is a wonderful thing for our society. On the other hand, it makes the process harder and more stressful for all the kids applying. I think it is a little unjust for us to look down on all the strategizing/thinking ahead that kids today need to do, given that our easy-in of 15-20 years ago doesn't exist anymore.

I don't look down on it, I just do not want my kid to get caught up in it. I don't know the ages of kids the other parents in this thread, but for those of us with kids who are in high school the entire college process has gotten insanely and unhealthily competitive, not just for the Ivies, but also for the better public universities. Those days of coming home, having a snack, hitting the homework and then socializing or watching tv or just reading trash almost never happen for my kid and her peers. It is a lot of work and little r&r.

Rather than take her SATs multiple times and taking an insanely work intensive course load, I really would like her to take an "organic" approach to the college app process and just see where the chips fall. In the long run I truly do not believe that getting into a prestigious college is worth the sacrifice of the happiness of ones last few years as a child.

[Anonymous]

Organic Girl, here. (Btw, I am so lovin' my nickname but if you knew me I am the last one to be considered anywhere near earthy or crunchy.)

I so agree with 16:10 about HS kids today and what we really wish for our own children as they go through school. We were very lucky to have the experiences we had.

My own son is a very bright MSer in a highly-regarded private school. I am not pushing anything on him. He is pushing himself and doing well so I am not fanning flames or talking to him about which schools he should pursue. When the time comes, I'm sure that he will discover the right one with some suggestions/ideas from Mommy and Daddy. I would want him to know that wherever he ends up will be the very best place for him.

I do urge him to be curious and adventurous and I believe that much of what he practices comes from home and seeing his parents in action. I am an entrepreneur and always work outside the box so maybe that is also a factor.

Tbe best thing I think I can give my child academically is love and support to follow his dreams and to make independent decisions. I'd really like for him to love the learning process for life instead of thinking of it merely as a means to one end. I think the people who end up truly happy have followed their own path and identified what they really love.

[Anonymous]

This thread is another reason why we need a college section of DCUM! Otherwise you have to look for it in the private schools -- as opposed to public schools -- section!

[Anonymous]

Yes of course DCUM please start one! I'm the OP, I almost posted this in Schools General. I didn't know if cross-posting was acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Now what do we all propose to do about this sad state of affairs? Choose the road less currently travelled for our high school kids? Make sure they do not fret about the SAT, advise no SAT prep/tutors, take SAT/ACT exam once? Apply to schools that don't require SAT/ACT? Lighten up on the AP courses and exams? If our children do not have any Ivys or little 3s, MIT or the like on their college list desist from questioning why? Follow the advise of the college counselors proposing college suggestions for your children? Support our children's college list and final choices? Resist encouraging them to follow in our footsteps (prep school and Ivy tradition)...indeed encourage to follow alternate careers from our own? Encourage them to do their own "organic" thing?

[Anonymous]

New article suggesting that students do better in "reach" schools than "safety" schools--and that community college might not be the best solution:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnews/20090910/ts_usnews/whichhighschoolstudentsaremostlikelytograduatefromcollege

[Anonymous]

22:55 - We are not advocating extreme viewpoints. In fact, part of this discussion centers around how all-consuming and exhausting the current process for college prep is. Extremes of any kind are never good.

As with any subject, it is up to you, the parent, to help determine which path your child takes in life - and how to go about it. The wish here has been that we would like our kids to experience something less stressful.

We are not advocating anything you have expressed above. Every child is different and therefore should have their own approach to getting into college that plays upon their strengths.

[Anonymous]

As the parent of a high school student, I can tell you that kids today put so much more pressure on themselves than we ever experienced in the college and grad school application process. DH and I both took the "organic" mode with great success in the late '70s and '80s, and we are, of course, aware that such an approach seems antiquated and naive to many parents of our kids' peers. So what? We've been urging our kids to think for themselves since they entered the world of peer pressure. It's up to us to live by that. We advise our kids to do what they love and to do it with all their heart. We're honest with them that it's nice to have a degree from a brand-name school, but we also note that we had classmates at those fancy pants schools who were dumb as posts and now have colleagues from schools you've never heard of who have excelled professionally. Parents need to love and believe in their kids, and check their own egos at the door.

[Anonymous]

Amen!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:22:55 - We are not advocating extreme viewpoints. In fact, part of this discussion centers around how all-consuming and exhausting the current process for college prep is. Extremes of any kind are never good.

As with any subject, it is up to you, the parent, to help determine which path your child takes in life - and how to go about it. The wish here has been that we would like our kids to experience something less stressful.

We are not advocating anything you have expressed above. Every child is different and therefore should have their own approach to getting into college that plays upon their strengths.

I disagree. At this stage of the game it is up to the parent to SUPPORT the path the CHILD has deemed theirs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I cannot agree with 5:52 blanket statement about picking sports for college. It may seem strange to you but there are many parents and kids who do these "niche" sports for practical reasons and likes. Especially here in DC where summers are hot and humid, rowing (cooler on the water) and squash (indoors with AC) are logical sports to substitute for lacrosse and other outdoor sports that are done under the sun in heavy equipment.

There are many "niche" sports that have huge popularity in certain parts of the country. Even a good number of public high schools here have rowing teams. You may simply not have grown up with them.

Sorry but I have darlings in high school and input comes from kids and parents. The public high schools with rowing teams are [for the most part] those with parents who see the college value and can fund the venture privately.

[Anonymous]

5:38 My father did not dictate to me where I went to college or what profession to choose. And it is will not be up to me as a parent to dictate what my children choose to do with their lives. I prefer to lead by example, as my father did in his time.

That said, you are clearly free to dictate to your own children what they ultimately choose to do with their lives.

[Anonymous]

Sorry but I have darlings in high school and input comes from kids and parents. The public high schools with rowing teams are [for the most part] those with parents who see the college value and can fund the venture privately.


I bet they're also near the water.