No blasts on day 5/6

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've also had a very low blast rate but am a high responder. Even at 150 Gonal F and 75 Menopur, I still just retrieved 14 eggs, yet I typically make 1 blast or even none.

Like PP, I also tried two fresh transfers of 5 Day 3 embryos each. I don't think those were good quality cycles for a few different reasons, and they weren't on immune treatment, so who's to say whether that approach would really work any better for me. My current RE doesn't think the Day 3 approach is good for me because I always have too many to choose from at Day 3 and there is no good way to discriminate between them. She said the most recent normal embryo I had would not have been among the ones selected for a Day 3 transfer. So I feel a little bit stuck.

I've already had 3 miscarriages due to chromosomal abnormalities, and two were late in the 1st trimester, so I am not eager to repeat that without PGS testing.

I've had two normals, tried transferring one so far and it did not take. I'm going to try again next year with the one in the freezer on immune protocol.

Thanks for your post. What will immune protocol include? And how did you conclude you needed one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've also had a very low blast rate but am a high responder. Even at 150 Gonal F and 75 Menopur, I still just retrieved 14 eggs, yet I typically make 1 blast or even none.

Like PP, I also tried two fresh transfers of 5 Day 3 embryos each. I don't think those were good quality cycles for a few different reasons, and they weren't on immune treatment, so who's to say whether that approach would really work any better for me. My current RE doesn't think the Day 3 approach is good for me because I always have too many to choose from at Day 3 and there is no good way to discriminate between them. She said the most recent normal embryo I had would not have been among the ones selected for a Day 3 transfer. So I feel a little bit stuck.

I've already had 3 miscarriages due to chromosomal abnormalities, and two were late in the 1st trimester, so I am not eager to repeat that without PGS testing.

I've had two normals, tried transferring one so far and it did not take. I'm going to try again next year with the one in the freezer on immune protocol.

Thanks for your post. What will immune protocol include? And how did you conclude you needed one?

Immune protocol for me will involve a steroid like prednisone, intralipids, and maybe Neupogen. I'm not seeing Dr. Braverman, but he believes high dose fish oil is just as good as intralipids.

It used to be that I could get pregnant somewhat easily with bad embryos (hence the three miscarriages due to chromosomal abnormalities), plus one live birth in the middle of all of that. Right after the 3rd miscarriage, it seemed like a switch flipped and I couldn't get pregnant even though it seemed like implantation was in process (implantation bleeding and cramping). After 6 IUIs, a failed FET with a normal embryo, and Day 3 transfers of 10 beautiful looking embryos, I just felt like I should have had SOME pregnancy, even a bad one, given my history. I had heard that immune issues can be triggered by pregnancy, especially a male, and that third miscarriage was a male fetus. I don't know if that's for sure what happened or not, but I just felt something wasn't right. I already knew I had Hashimoto's, which is an autoimmune disease, so I went to have testing done with Dr. Abbasi at CFA. I do have natural killer cell activity and cytokines outside the normal range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seem like you have a high number of eggs but low quality.
Might be worth have fewer eggs but of higher quality, which might be achieved by reducing your dosage of stims.

What is your current IVF protocol and how much medicine are you taking?

14 days of birth control
4 days off
10ml of Lupron micro dose every morning and night
Then 300 units of menopur and follistim every night
Trigger when follicles are ready

We have tried birth control, no birth control and estrogen. Added Lupron this time instead of ganirelix at the end.

Anyone been given reasons for low quality eggs (although the fertilize and make it to day 4/5) at 38?

Thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've also had a very low blast rate but am a high responder. Even at 150 Gonal F and 75 Menopur, I still just retrieved 14 eggs, yet I typically make 1 blast or even none.

Like PP, I also tried two fresh transfers of 5 Day 3 embryos each. I don't think those were good quality cycles for a few different reasons, and they weren't on immune treatment, so who's to say whether that approach would really work any better for me. My current RE doesn't think the Day 3 approach is good for me because I always have too many to choose from at Day 3 and there is no good way to discriminate between them. She said the most recent normal embryo I had would not have been among the ones selected for a Day 3 transfer. So I feel a little bit stuck.

I've already had 3 miscarriages due to chromosomal abnormalities, and two were late in the 1st trimester, so I am not eager to repeat that without PGS testing.

I've had two normals, tried transferring one so far and it did not take. I'm going to try again next year with the one in the freezer on immune protocol.

Thanks for your post. What will immune protocol include? And how did you conclude you needed one?

Immune protocol for me will involve a steroid like prednisone, intralipids, and maybe Neupogen. I'm not seeing Dr. Braverman, but he believes high dose fish oil is just as good as intralipids.

It used to be that I could get pregnant somewhat easily with bad embryos (hence the three miscarriages due to chromosomal abnormalities), plus one live birth in the middle of all of that. Right after the 3rd miscarriage, it seemed like a switch flipped and I couldn't get pregnant even though it seemed like implantation was in process (implantation bleeding and cramping). After 6 IUIs, a failed FET with a normal embryo, and Day 3 transfers of 10 beautiful looking embryos, I just felt like I should have had SOME pregnancy, even a bad one, given my history. I had heard that immune issues can be triggered by pregnancy, especially a male, and that third miscarriage was a male fetus. I don't know if that's for sure what happened or not, but I just felt something wasn't right. I already knew I had Hashimoto's, which is an autoimmune disease, so I went to have testing done with Dr. Abbasi at CFA. I do have natural killer cell activity and cytokines outside the normal range.

Thank you. I hope things work out for you on next try.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I m 42 and started ivf last year when i just turned 41.
Cycle #1
14 retrieved 12 fertilized with icsi 4 blastocysts
Pgs - all abnormal

Cycle #2
15 retrieved, 11 fertilized with icsi 0 blastocyst

Cycle #3
Started taking coq10, dhea ( thermalogix) acupuncture (3or 4 times a month)
16 retrieved, 14 fertilized with icsi 5 blastocyst
Pgs - all abnormal

Cycle #4 ( took a break for couple of months)
At this point i lost my faith in ivf and just did it for heck of it. So i could tell my self in the future I did my best and try as hard as i can. Since insurance covered I thought what the heck.

18 eggs retrieved, 7 fertilized with icsi
Fresh transfer on day 5
1 early blast grade 1ab
1 doc said it looks like its about to blast
1 i ve no idea just wanted to transfer 3 due to my age..

I m pregnant with singleton.
First beta 14dpt. 1760
Second beta. 16dpt 4000
Third beta 20dpt 17000

Ultrasound normal heart beat..

I agree with the posts about pgs testing. They are not 100% correct. Studies shown mosaics embryos may self correct themselves in uterus. Please do some research and you will find out.
Also as far as i know ( i might be wrong) in ivf, most chromosomally abnormal pregnacies end up miscarriage. I remember reading somewhere also an embryologyst friend confirmed as well. But as i said i might be wrong..

Some embryos do better in moms belly rather than dish. I suggest try a fresh transfer. Transfer 1 or 2 and if there anything leftover for blastocyst you can freeze it.
I wish you the best of luck.. it doesn't have to try to try something different ())

PGS testing doesn't detect mosaicism at all. Yes, some studies say that there have been some cases (not massive studies that are methodologically controlled, but individual case reports) of aneuploid embryos self correcting. It doesn't mean that every PGS abnormal embryo can self correct, so it's still a big risk.

Also, on petri dish vs. "mom's belly" - transfer on day 5 places the embryo in the uterus. In a spontaneous non-ART pregnancy, embryos make it to the uterus sometime between day 7 and 9, so day 5 transfer places the embryo where it wouldn't yet be otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question to those that transferred on day 3 - why are you willing to take a risk with untested, potentially chromosomally incompetent embryo? This is an honest question. How would you deal with such a pregnancy?

Because no embryos ever made it to a full blast to be frozen and tested. Why do the same thing after it already failed 3 times? I was willing to take the risk with day 3 embryos because day 5 clearly didn't work. We agreed with DH that if I were to get pregnant and NIPT test revealed a chromosomal abnormality, we would terminate. I would do the same if there was no IVF involved and it was a spontaneous conception.

Yeah...why not just use the right word: abort.

Go away - no one needs this shit. This is an infertility board where people are struggling to have a baby.

I made the comment and I am struggling to have a baby. But I wouldn't abort. And I have a right to say that.

NP - You have no f'ing idea what you'd do if you found yourself in that unfortunate position so STFU, thx.

No need to get angry. I read your blog and you expressed how peaceful you are with your decision. So no need to get angry at those that will not do it.

Not the same person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I m 42 and started ivf last year when i just turned 41.
Cycle #1
14 retrieved 12 fertilized with icsi 4 blastocysts
Pgs - all abnormal

Cycle #2
15 retrieved, 11 fertilized with icsi 0 blastocyst

Cycle #3
Started taking coq10, dhea ( thermalogix) acupuncture (3or 4 times a month)
16 retrieved, 14 fertilized with icsi 5 blastocyst
Pgs - all abnormal

Cycle #4 ( took a break for couple of months)
At this point i lost my faith in ivf and just did it for heck of it. So i could tell my self in the future I did my best and try as hard as i can. Since insurance covered I thought what the heck.

18 eggs retrieved, 7 fertilized with icsi
Fresh transfer on day 5
1 early blast grade 1ab
1 doc said it looks like its about to blast
1 i ve no idea just wanted to transfer 3 due to my age..

I m pregnant with singleton.
First beta 14dpt. 1760
Second beta. 16dpt 4000
Third beta 20dpt 17000

Ultrasound normal heart beat..

I agree with the posts about pgs testing. They are not 100% correct. Studies shown mosaics embryos may self correct themselves in uterus. Please do some research and you will find out.
Also as far as i know ( i might be wrong) in ivf, most chromosomally abnormal pregnacies end up miscarriage. I remember reading somewhere also an embryologyst friend confirmed as well. But as i said i might be wrong..

Some embryos do better in moms belly rather than dish. I suggest try a fresh transfer. Transfer 1 or 2 and if there anything leftover for blastocyst you can freeze it.
I wish you the best of luck.. it doesn't have to try to try something different ())

PGS testing doesn't detect mosaicism at all. Yes, some studies say that there have been some cases (not massive studies that are methodologically controlled, but individual case reports) of aneuploid embryos self correcting. It doesn't mean that every PGS abnormal embryo can self correct, so it's still a big risk.

Also, on petri dish vs. "mom's belly" - transfer on day 5 places the embryo in the uterus. In a spontaneous non-ART pregnancy, embryos make it to the uterus sometime between day 7 and 9, so day 5 transfer places the embryo where it wouldn't yet be otherwise.

Would that contribute to early demise of many PGS normal embryos? They treat all FETs as day 5 transfers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I m 42 and started ivf last year when i just turned 41.
Cycle #1
14 retrieved 12 fertilized with icsi 4 blastocysts
Pgs - all abnormal

Cycle #2
15 retrieved, 11 fertilized with icsi 0 blastocyst

Cycle #3
Started taking coq10, dhea ( thermalogix) acupuncture (3or 4 times a month)
16 retrieved, 14 fertilized with icsi 5 blastocyst
Pgs - all abnormal

Cycle #4 ( took a break for couple of months)
At this point i lost my faith in ivf and just did it for heck of it. So i could tell my self in the future I did my best and try as hard as i can. Since insurance covered I thought what the heck.

18 eggs retrieved, 7 fertilized with icsi
Fresh transfer on day 5
1 early blast grade 1ab
1 doc said it looks like its about to blast
1 i ve no idea just wanted to transfer 3 due to my age..

I m pregnant with singleton.
First beta 14dpt. 1760
Second beta. 16dpt 4000
Third beta 20dpt 17000

Ultrasound normal heart beat..

I agree with the posts about pgs testing. They are not 100% correct. Studies shown mosaics embryos may self correct themselves in uterus. Please do some research and you will find out.
Also as far as i know ( i might be wrong) in ivf, most chromosomally abnormal pregnacies end up miscarriage. I remember reading somewhere also an embryologyst friend confirmed as well. But as i said i might be wrong..

Some embryos do better in moms belly rather than dish. I suggest try a fresh transfer. Transfer 1 or 2 and if there anything leftover for blastocyst you can freeze it.
I wish you the best of luck.. it doesn't have to try to try something different ())

PGS testing doesn't detect mosaicism at all. Yes, some studies say that there have been some cases (not massive studies that are methodologically controlled, but individual case reports) of aneuploid embryos self correcting. It doesn't mean that every PGS abnormal embryo can self correct, so it's still a big risk.

Also, on petri dish vs. "mom's belly" - transfer on day 5 places the embryo in the uterus. In a spontaneous non-ART pregnancy, embryos make it to the uterus sometime between day 7 and 9, so day 5 transfer places the embryo where it wouldn't yet be otherwise.

Would that contribute to early demise of many PGS normal embryos? They treat all FETs as day 5 transfers.

I wish there was an answer to this. But the reality is that they simply don't know. Maybe or maybe not. PGS does not detect ANY mosaicism, so PGS normal may still be abnormal - that's some of the day 5 that don't implant. Some arrest for reasons unknown. Some don't implant because of issues with the mother (immune response). Nobody can tell which one is which and whether there are other reasons for non-implantation. The cutting edge is the bleeding edge, the science on this is still developing.

[Anonymous]

You might also want to see if the sperm is contributing to low quality embryo. You can have a sperm DNA fragmentation test done to look at sperm quality.

[Anonymous]

We did test the DNA of the sperm. All is normal. One thing was borderline but the doctor wasn’t concerned.

We did another retrieval. I had 7 eggs retrieved. Only 4 fertilized and then one made it to early blast then stopped.

When I research reasons why the embryo stops growing, other than the quality of egg, sub par culture issues for the lab was listed as a reason. Should I switch doctors?

Has anyone switched clinics all together and seen a difference?

This was our 5th retrieval this year. 37 eggs and only one made it to blast for PGS and it came back make and abnormal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We did test the DNA of the sperm. All is normal. One thing was borderline but the doctor wasn’t concerned.

We did another retrieval. I had 7 eggs retrieved. Only 4 fertilized and then one made it to early blast then stopped.

When I research reasons why the embryo stops growing, other than the quality of egg, sub par culture issues for the lab was listed as a reason. Should I switch doctors?

Has anyone switched clinics all together and seen a difference?

This was our 5th retrieval this year. 37 eggs and only one made it to blast for PGS and it came back make and abnormal.

Yes - see someone else. Are you at shady grove? I think they have the best lab locally. Also start taking CoQ10 - It helps with egg quality. I had two cycles with no PGS normal, then after being on CoQ10 for 3 months I got two normal blasts... Not saying it was the CoQ10 necessarily, but it cant hurt.

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP above who is a high responder but low blast rate, doing immune protocol on next FET. Regarding lab quality, I have been at 3 clinics so far and blast rate has been the same at all of them. I have even tried Shady Grove and their lab did not help me any better. Granted, those two cycles were the ones where we put in 5 embryos for a fresh Day 3 transfer and let the rest grow to Day 6. But still, of those that went on to grow in the lab, I didn't get any blasts in either of those cycles.

CCRM is a place where people say they see a big improvement in blast rate, and they claim to be able to grow blasts in their lab where other places could not. But they are super expensive.

Some people have success getting blasts on human growth hormone (Omnitrope) but it doesn't work for everyone. I tried it and it did not help at all. In fact, fertilization rate was only 50% in that cycle even with ICSI.

[Anonymous]

I’m on every supplement-CoQ, dhea, ubitquitol, antioxidants, Royal jelly, etc. I’m hoping the doctor will do one more retrieval. But im at a loss....AMH is 1.0 and FSH is 6. I’m 38. Wtf.

[Anonymous]

Why don't you try a three-day transfer? I had two retrievals and each time made only six embryos. I did not want to risk losing them and having nothing by growing to 5 days since I did not have a lot to work with. My doctor also thinks a natural environment is best for embryos. I got pregnant on a fresh 3-day transfer (second retrieval).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don't you try a three-day transfer? I had two retrievals and each time made only six embryos. I did not want to risk losing them and having nothing by growing to 5 days since I did not have a lot to work with. My doctor also thinks a natural environment is best for embryos. I got pregnant on a fresh 3-day transfer (second retrieval).

This, I couldn’t get anything to blast on two attempts. Third time did a 3 day and have a 13 month old now. Will do the same next year for number 2. There is a growing number of peoole that believe the lab isn’t the best incubator and PGD is eliminating possible embryos that would self correct just fine.