Discover Atheism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists at what age did you discovered that there wasn't a "God"or that any deity did not exist? Was it through a life changing experience, your parents, your understanding of science, etc? Also, did you get ostracize or rejected by your family and friends once you told them that you were an Atheist? Have you ever suffer discrimination because of your belief or lack of?

I have yet to discover there is no god -- that would be impossible - like discovering there is no Zeus. I stopped believing in god as an adult when I learned about religion from an academic point of view. And of course, I never believed in Zeus. I was told he was a mythical character from the beginning -- a god people believed in long ago, but not anymore.

I learned there are many gods out there that people still believe in and that in some cases, e.g., Christianity, there are strong punishments for not believing (hell) and strong rewards for believing (heaven) but both are ideas, not actual places. And while there is no way to prove that God doesn't exist, there is no way to prove he doesn't. I learned lots of other things but those were the main reasons for no longer believing.

Speaking as a theist, I think this is the most sensible post in the thread and I agree that atheism is a system of belief, or organized non-belief, rather than discovering a scientific fact.

Also, there are still people who believe in Zeus, but that's neither here nor there.

PP here -- nice that you think my post is sensible, but I nowhere did I say or intend to say that atheism is a system of belief.

There is one typo in my post: "And while there is no way to prove that God doesn't exist, there is no way to prove he DOES."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a pretty non religious place and no one I knew really took religion or god seriously, in fact it was weird if you did, and it still a functioning society with laws and justice etc. I find all the current religious ideas of god very lacking. I used to want to be religious, but now I'm very much at peace as an atheist. like the PP I find the universe/nature awe-inspiring.

This is pretty much me. I had a close friend in middle school who was mildly religious and I joined her at church a few times out of curiosity and also went on a youth group trip. I liked the sense of community but never bought into the "faith" side. Around that same time I had some extended family members join a "born again" church and to me it they seemed like they went mad. Even now I really don't understand some of their actions. And they've been very hateful to me and other members of my family.

PP here - I can relate to that. Praying in tongues the whole bit, raving on about sin and how god will punish us all for our sins and how every natural event is because god is angry...yeah. it seems very odd to me too.

that said, I've known some religious people in my life who are fantastic people.

Well...

1. The speaking in tongues thing as it's practiced in pentecostal churches is not modeled on anything biblically. You can see the references to it in Acts as speaking a known language. This is not what is practiced in this strain of Christianity.
2. God will indeed punish unforgiven sin, but He gave us a way to be forgiven through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, Christians are told to judge fellow believers, because believers are both a living temple of God and because they are a testimony of their belief. But we are not told to judge unbelievers. You can see this in 1 Corinthians 5:11-12. We are all sinners, and Christians are told to offer the good news of Christ's forgiveness, not condemnation.
3. Jesus said bad things will happen in this world, but he cautioned people against thinking that everything is a judgment, as in Luke 13:1-5.

The problem is that many believers haven't learned Christian theology enough to represent it at all points. We are supposed to learn and know this so we can be good witnesses for the faith. But the solution is not to not believe but to learn what Christianity truly teaches.

This is a solution for people who are Christian or who want to become Christian or stay Christian. It is not a solution for people who were never Christian or who have rejected Christianity or all religious belief.

Maybe. But I was responding to the PP who listed some objections to what makes Christianity odd. But if those objections are not based on actual Christian theology, then that undercuts to some degree the refusal to believe. If you give me a bunch of things that makes you not believe Christianity, but those things are not really Christianity, it would be better if you understood what Christianity actually teachings, so that at least you know what you're objecting to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was always agnostic. One day I was watching Law and Order SVU and I turned atheist. Nobody care about my beliefs, my grandmother is praying for me, she wishes I was baptized, but it doesn't have any impact on our relationship.

If you read the Bible, you'll read where God tells us not to have sex outside marriage. I've seen SVU. It's about people committing sex crimes, which God not only doesn't condone but commands against. So you decided there's no God because you watched a TV show that shows the ugly consequences that occur when people disobey Him?

If you DID believe in God, would you appreciate it if He made you always do the right thing, or always kept you from doing the wrong thing? I doubt it. Much of what you think is no big deal, He does think is a big deal. Jesus said to even lust after someone is to sin. But you have free will, which includes the will to harm yourself and others. I don't know why the bad things happen, but they don't happen because it's God's idea, and the fact of them happening doesn't mean there's no God, or that He can't sort out justice in due time.

wrong thread. go proselytize on a new thread.

+ 100. Like I haven't heard all these arguments a millionty times before

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a pretty non religious place and no one I knew really took religion or god seriously, in fact it was weird if you did, and it still a functioning society with laws and justice etc. I find all the current religious ideas of god very lacking. I used to want to be religious, but now I'm very much at peace as an atheist. like the PP I find the universe/nature awe-inspiring.

This is pretty much me. I had a close friend in middle school who was mildly religious and I joined her at church a few times out of curiosity and also went on a youth group trip. I liked the sense of community but never bought into the "faith" side. Around that same time I had some extended family members join a "born again" church and to me it they seemed like they went mad. Even now I really don't understand some of their actions. And they've been very hateful to me and other members of my family.

PP here - I can relate to that. Praying in tongues the whole bit, raving on about sin and how god will punish us all for our sins and how every natural event is because god is angry...yeah. it seems very odd to me too.

that said, I've known some religious people in my life who are fantastic people.

Well...

1. The speaking in tongues thing as it's practiced in pentecostal churches is not modeled on anything biblically. You can see the references to it in Acts as speaking a known language. This is not what is practiced in this strain of Christianity.
2. God will indeed punish unforgiven sin, but He gave us a way to be forgiven through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, Christians are told to judge fellow believers, because believers are both a living temple of God and because they are a testimony of their belief. But we are not told to judge unbelievers. You can see this in 1 Corinthians 5:11-12. We are all sinners, and Christians are told to offer the good news of Christ's forgiveness, not condemnation.
3. Jesus said bad things will happen in this world, but he cautioned people against thinking that everything is a judgment, as in Luke 13:1-5.

The problem is that many believers haven't learned Christian theology enough to represent it at all points. We are supposed to learn and know this so we can be good witnesses for the faith. But the solution is not to not believe but to learn what Christianity truly teaches.

This is a solution for people who are Christian or who want to become Christian or stay Christian. It is not a solution for people who were never Christian or who have rejected Christianity or all religious belief.

Maybe. But I was responding to the PP who listed some objections to what makes Christianity odd. But if those objections are not based on actual Christian theology, then that undercuts to some degree the refusal to believe. If you give me a bunch of things that makes you not believe Christianity, but those things are not really Christianity, it would be better if you understood what Christianity actually teachings, so that at least you know what you're objecting to.

PP here whose relative spoke in tongues etc. I really don't care what Christianity teaches or doesn't teach, or what people claim it teaches because most of you don't agree anyway. You're assuming that I reject it on theological grounds. I dgaf what theology says. I find it interesting to learn about in an academic kind of way (I read a lot) but I see zero evidence in the world that this religion or any other has any bearing on reality. YAY SCIENCE. YAY UNIVERSE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a pretty non religious place and no one I knew really took religion or god seriously, in fact it was weird if you did, and it still a functioning society with laws and justice etc. I find all the current religious ideas of god very lacking. I used to want to be religious, but now I'm very much at peace as an atheist. like the PP I find the universe/nature awe-inspiring.

This is pretty much me. I had a close friend in middle school who was mildly religious and I joined her at church a few times out of curiosity and also went on a youth group trip. I liked the sense of community but never bought into the "faith" side. Around that same time I had some extended family members join a "born again" church and to me it they seemed like they went mad. Even now I really don't understand some of their actions. And they've been very hateful to me and other members of my family.

PP here - I can relate to that. Praying in tongues the whole bit, raving on about sin and how god will punish us all for our sins and how every natural event is because god is angry...yeah. it seems very odd to me too.

that said, I've known some religious people in my life who are fantastic people.

Well...

1. The speaking in tongues thing as it's practiced in pentecostal churches is not modeled on anything biblically. You can see the references to it in Acts as speaking a known language. This is not what is practiced in this strain of Christianity.
2. God will indeed punish unforgiven sin, but He gave us a way to be forgiven through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, Christians are told to judge fellow believers, because believers are both a living temple of God and because they are a testimony of their belief. But we are not told to judge unbelievers. You can see this in 1 Corinthians 5:11-12. We are all sinners, and Christians are told to offer the good news of Christ's forgiveness, not condemnation.
3. Jesus said bad things will happen in this world, but he cautioned people against thinking that everything is a judgment, as in Luke 13:1-5.

The problem is that many believers haven't learned Christian theology enough to represent it at all points. We are supposed to learn and know this so we can be good witnesses for the faith. But the solution is not to not believe but to learn what Christianity truly teaches.

This is a solution for people who are Christian or who want to become Christian or stay Christian. It is not a solution for people who were never Christian or who have rejected Christianity or all religious belief.

Maybe. But I was responding to the PP who listed some objections to what makes Christianity odd. But if those objections are not based on actual Christian theology, then that undercuts to some degree the refusal to believe. If you give me a bunch of things that makes you not believe Christianity, but those things are not really Christianity, it would be better if you understood what Christianity actually teachings, so that at least you know what you're objecting to.

Being a witness for the faith or believing in the faith (e.g., Christianity) is not the same as atheism which is not believing in God - any god from any faith. Some people arrive at atheism through rejecting the beliefs of a certain religion - often the religion they were raised in, but their lack of belief - atheism - applies to all religions.

Also there is a lot of disagreement among Christians as to what Christianity actually teaches. This is evident via the many different denominations of Christianity.Sometimes slight differences can cause a major split. Your reasoning may positively influence you, but not people in some other Christian denominations and certainly not atheists who have rejected the concept of god, irrespective of other aspects of religions.

You may be sure that your religious beliefs are correct and think that if others would listen to your reasoning and try to understand, they'd believe the way you do. But it obviously doesn't work that way, given the many religions that exist and the many people who believe different things or have rejected religious belief.

[Anonymous]

Religion requires faith, worship and belief. Atheists lack all three- therefore it cannot, by definition, be a religion. Typing in all caps doesn't change the definition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a pretty non religious place and no one I knew really took religion or god seriously, in fact it was weird if you did, and it still a functioning society with laws and justice etc. I find all the current religious ideas of god very lacking. I used to want to be religious, but now I'm very much at peace as an atheist. like the PP I find the universe/nature awe-inspiring.

This is pretty much me. I had a close friend in middle school who was mildly religious and I joined her at church a few times out of curiosity and also went on a youth group trip. I liked the sense of community but never bought into the "faith" side. Around that same time I had some extended family members join a "born again" church and to me it they seemed like they went mad. Even now I really don't understand some of their actions. And they've been very hateful to me and other members of my family.

PP here - I can relate to that. Praying in tongues the whole bit, raving on about sin and how god will punish us all for our sins and how every natural event is because god is angry...yeah. it seems very odd to me too.

that said, I've known some religious people in my life who are fantastic people.

Well...

1. The speaking in tongues thing as it's practiced in pentecostal churches is not modeled on anything biblically. You can see the references to it in Acts as speaking a known language. This is not what is practiced in this strain of Christianity.
2. God will indeed punish unforgiven sin, but He gave us a way to be forgiven through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, Christians are told to judge fellow believers, because believers are both a living temple of God and because they are a testimony of their belief. But we are not told to judge unbelievers. You can see this in 1 Corinthians 5:11-12. We are all sinners, and Christians are told to offer the good news of Christ's forgiveness, not condemnation.
3. Jesus said bad things will happen in this world, but he cautioned people against thinking that everything is a judgment, as in Luke 13:1-5.

The problem is that many believers haven't learned Christian theology enough to represent it at all points. We are supposed to learn and know this so we can be good witnesses for the faith. But the solution is not to not believe but to learn what Christianity truly teaches.

I assume this is the reason that Trump enjoyed 80% of the evangelical vote?

I know, this is not a political threat...I'm sorry to bring it up. I promise I am not making assumptions about how you personally vote, PP. It's just I'm the atheist that great up evangelical (though it was called "fundamentalist" in the 90s) and so I do have a solid base of knowledge about what the Bible teaches. A Christian's life is their testimony and the strongest witness to the "truth" of the Bible. I still believe that, actually. In that the way one acts is a testament to what is in their hearts. And I do believe the message of Christ is worthy of following, I just lack the faith part.

And so with that, I am absolutely disgusted and appalled at the marriage of politics and modern American Christianity. It's not all Christians, obviously, but it's nearly all that I grew up knowing. And their testimony of late has made me even more at peace with state of nonbelief.

PP, I don't know you or what is in your heart. But as you are in an atheist here representing Christianity, I just need to make sure you understand how Christians are being perceived.

This is a nice, reasonable response. My belief is that we should put our trust in the LORD, not in men. I didn't vote in this last election. Both candidates were extremely distasteful to me. It was disheartening to see evangelical leaders stand up publicly with Trump, but it would also have been disheartening to see them stand up publicly with Clinton. But not everyone who professes a faith is a faithful disciple of that faith, or even genuine in their belief. I'm not judging them, or anyone else. Christians will indeed answer to Christ for how they lived out their faith here on Earth. But doing so poorly again reflects poorly on them, or it shows a lack of spiritual maturity. What it doesn't mean is that Christianity isn't true. We're all hypocrites to some extent. No one faithfully lives out their convictions at all times, and we should have humility about that in ourselves and not forget that about ourselves when we look down on others.

But if you look at the Gospel message of the Bible, our salvation is not based on how well we do being good or not being bad; it's based on whether we have faith in Christ. So it's good to focus on our faith and not worry so much about politics. We have to vote our consciences, and sometimes there are bad choices on both sides. Picking the lesser of two evils doesn't make you a bad Christian, but putting your faith in politicians might.

[Anonymous]

I was 9.

I saw my parents decorate and wrap gifts for us during the holidays that year. There was always a "Santa Claus" is coming and you better be good or else you won't get presents theme and then I found the gifts and realize my parents were doing it. And when I realized that adults were putting in so much effort into making "Santa Claus" real- including the concept that only believers get presents- I asked my Sunday school teacher about it. In class. In front of everyone. Loudly.

And the question wasn't whether Santa was real, but whether the efforts in making us believe in Santa was different than with the efforts in making us believe in Jesus. The teachers weren't able to answer this question. She just said both Jesus and Santa were testaments of goodness and faith.

And therefore - by a lack of an answer to how they were different confirmed the lie by equating them with goodness. And also told a young girl that it's okay to lie for the greater good.

Which as we know by the New Testament, is not true. Hypocrisy and lies are hated by god.

So I just lost it and told my dad that I didn't want to celebrate Christmas anymore or go to church. When he asked why and I told him, he told me that we would still celebrate Christmas as a family but with no church. But I wasn't allowed to tell my little brother, who also figured it out later from someone else.

I got tons of presents every year thereafter, even as a heathen, FWIW. Nothing changed but we did have more fun as a family- just no mention of god. We aren't allowed to talk about our lack of churchgoing with grandma though.

[Anonymous]

I grew up in an atheist country (USSR), flirted with the idea of being religious when we moved here, but it never clicked.

I don't discount some sort of higher power/things we don't understand, but the idea that there is a human-like God "up there" who requires adoration and obedience seems laughable to me. Either there is a God that is all-powerful and all-knowing, in which case why would he/she even bother to care about individual humans, in which case in turn why would I bother to care about him/her, OR this deity is somehow not all-powerful and dependent on us for existence, but that's not what most religions teach us, so it seems like a weird logical lapse.

In any case, I take comfort in the material world, in treating other people around us with respect and humanity, not in the idea that there is something out there that personally cares about me, yet has created a world full of suffering and injustices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a pretty non religious place and no one I knew really took religion or god seriously, in fact it was weird if you did, and it still a functioning society with laws and justice etc. I find all the current religious ideas of god very lacking. I used to want to be religious, but now I'm very much at peace as an atheist. like the PP I find the universe/nature awe-inspiring.

This is pretty much me. I had a close friend in middle school who was mildly religious and I joined her at church a few times out of curiosity and also went on a youth group trip. I liked the sense of community but never bought into the "faith" side. Around that same time I had some extended family members join a "born again" church and to me it they seemed like they went mad. Even now I really don't understand some of their actions. And they've been very hateful to me and other members of my family.

PP here - I can relate to that. Praying in tongues the whole bit, raving on about sin and how god will punish us all for our sins and how every natural event is because god is angry...yeah. it seems very odd to me too.

that said, I've known some religious people in my life who are fantastic people.

Well...

1. The speaking in tongues thing as it's practiced in pentecostal churches is not modeled on anything biblically. You can see the references to it in Acts as speaking a known language. This is not what is practiced in this strain of Christianity.
2. God will indeed punish unforgiven sin, but He gave us a way to be forgiven through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, Christians are told to judge fellow believers, because believers are both a living temple of God and because they are a testimony of their belief. But we are not told to judge unbelievers. You can see this in 1 Corinthians 5:11-12. We are all sinners, and Christians are told to offer the good news of Christ's forgiveness, not condemnation.
3. Jesus said bad things will happen in this world, but he cautioned people against thinking that everything is a judgment, as in Luke 13:1-5.

The problem is that many believers haven't learned Christian theology enough to represent it at all points. We are supposed to learn and know this so we can be good witnesses for the faith. But the solution is not to not believe but to learn what Christianity truly teaches.

I assume this is the reason that Trump enjoyed 80% of the evangelical vote?

I know, this is not a political threat...I'm sorry to bring it up. I promise I am not making assumptions about how you personally vote, PP. It's just I'm the atheist that great up evangelical (though it was called "fundamentalist" in the 90s) and so I do have a solid base of knowledge about what the Bible teaches. A Christian's life is their testimony and the strongest witness to the "truth" of the Bible. I still believe that, actually. In that the way one acts is a testament to what is in their hearts. And I do believe the message of Christ is worthy of following, I just lack the faith part.

And so with that, I am absolutely disgusted and appalled at the marriage of politics and modern American Christianity. It's not all Christians, obviously, but it's nearly all that I grew up knowing. And their testimony of late has made me even more at peace with state of nonbelief.

PP, I don't know you or what is in your heart. But as you are in an atheist here representing Christianity, I just need to make sure you understand how Christians are being perceived.

This is a nice, reasonable response. My belief is that we should put our trust in the LORD, not in men. I didn't vote in this last election. Both candidates were extremely distasteful to me. It was disheartening to see evangelical leaders stand up publicly with Trump, but it would also have been disheartening to see them stand up publicly with Clinton. But not everyone who professes a faith is a faithful disciple of that faith, or even genuine in their belief. I'm not judging them, or anyone else. Christians will indeed answer to Christ for how they lived out their faith here on Earth. But doing so poorly again reflects poorly on them, or it shows a lack of spiritual maturity. What it doesn't mean is that Christianity isn't true. We're all hypocrites to some extent. No one faithfully lives out their convictions at all times, and we should have humility about that in ourselves and not forget that about ourselves when we look down on others.

But if you look at the Gospel message of the Bible, our salvation is not based on how well we do being good or not being bad; it's based on whether we have faith in Christ. So it's good to focus on our faith and not worry so much about politics. We have to vote our consciences, and sometimes there are bad choices on both sides. Picking the lesser of two evils doesn't make you a bad Christian, but putting your faith in politicians might.

Why are all of these religious nuts posting on a thread about ATHEISM?! Go start your own thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in an atheist country (USSR), flirted with the idea of being religious when we moved here, but it never clicked.

I don't discount some sort of higher power/things we don't understand, but the idea that there is a human-like God "up there" who requires adoration and obedience seems laughable to me. Either there is a God that is all-powerful and all-knowing, in which case why would he/she even bother to care about individual humans, in which case in turn why would I bother to care about him/her, OR this deity is somehow not all-powerful and dependent on us for existence, but that's not what most religions teach us, so it seems like a weird logical lapse.

In any case, I take comfort in the material world, in treating other people around us with respect and humanity, not in the idea that there is something out there that personally cares about me, yet has created a world full of suffering and injustices.

I met quite a number of people from the former Soviet union that say exactly what you say: " I don't discount some sort of higher power." As an Atheist I don't see any difference between higher power or God, they seem the same to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Why are all of these religious nuts posting on a thread about ATHEISM?! Go start your own thread.

Some of them aren't religious nuts; they are just religious people who are responding to a thread on the religion forum. Atheists do it all the time.

Personally, I don't mind them at all, except for the ALL CAPs poster who insists that atheism is a religion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a pretty non religious place and no one I knew really took religion or god seriously, in fact it was weird if you did, and it still a functioning society with laws and justice etc. I find all the current religious ideas of god very lacking. I used to want to be religious, but now I'm very much at peace as an atheist. like the PP I find the universe/nature awe-inspiring.

This is pretty much me. I had a close friend in middle school who was mildly religious and I joined her at church a few times out of curiosity and also went on a youth group trip. I liked the sense of community but never bought into the "faith" side. Around that same time I had some extended family members join a "born again" church and to me it they seemed like they went mad. Even now I really don't understand some of their actions. And they've been very hateful to me and other members of my family.

PP here - I can relate to that. Praying in tongues the whole bit, raving on about sin and how god will punish us all for our sins and how every natural event is because god is angry...yeah. it seems very odd to me too.

that said, I've known some religious people in my life who are fantastic people.

Well...

1. The speaking in tongues thing as it's practiced in pentecostal churches is not modeled on anything biblically. You can see the references to it in Acts as speaking a known language. This is not what is practiced in this strain of Christianity.
2. God will indeed punish unforgiven sin, but He gave us a way to be forgiven through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, Christians are told to judge fellow believers, because believers are both a living temple of God and because they are a testimony of their belief. But we are not told to judge unbelievers. You can see this in 1 Corinthians 5:11-12. We are all sinners, and Christians are told to offer the good news of Christ's forgiveness, not condemnation.
3. Jesus said bad things will happen in this world, but he cautioned people against thinking that everything is a judgment, as in Luke 13:1-5.

The problem is that many believers haven't learned Christian theology enough to represent it at all points. We are supposed to learn and know this so we can be good witnesses for the faith. But the solution is not to not believe but to learn what Christianity truly teaches.

I assume this is the reason that Trump enjoyed 80% of the evangelical vote?

I know, this is not a political threat...I'm sorry to bring it up. I promise I am not making assumptions about how you personally vote, PP. It's just I'm the atheist that great up evangelical (though it was called "fundamentalist" in the 90s) and so I do have a solid base of knowledge about what the Bible teaches. A Christian's life is their testimony and the strongest witness to the "truth" of the Bible. I still believe that, actually. In that the way one acts is a testament to what is in their hearts. And I do believe the message of Christ is worthy of following, I just lack the faith part.

And so with that, I am absolutely disgusted and appalled at the marriage of politics and modern American Christianity. It's not all Christians, obviously, but it's nearly all that I grew up knowing. And their testimony of late has made me even more at peace with state of nonbelief.

PP, I don't know you or what is in your heart. But as you are in an atheist here representing Christianity, I just need to make sure you understand how Christians are being perceived.

This is a nice, reasonable response. My belief is that we should put our trust in the LORD, not in men. I didn't vote in this last election. Both candidates were extremely distasteful to me. It was disheartening to see evangelical leaders stand up publicly with Trump, but it would also have been disheartening to see them stand up publicly with Clinton. But not everyone who professes a faith is a faithful disciple of that faith, or even genuine in their belief. I'm not judging them, or anyone else. Christians will indeed answer to Christ for how they lived out their faith here on Earth. But doing so poorly again reflects poorly on them, or it shows a lack of spiritual maturity. What it doesn't mean is that Christianity isn't true. We're all hypocrites to some extent. No one faithfully lives out their convictions at all times, and we should have humility about that in ourselves and not forget that about ourselves when we look down on others.

But if you look at the Gospel message of the Bible, our salvation is not based on how well we do being good or not being bad; it's based on whether we have faith in Christ. So it's good to focus on our faith and not worry so much about politics. We have to vote our consciences, and sometimes there are bad choices on both sides. Picking the lesser of two evils doesn't make you a bad Christian, but putting your faith in politicians might.

I appreciate your response, thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in a pretty non religious place and no one I knew really took religion or god seriously, in fact it was weird if you did, and it still a functioning society with laws and justice etc. I find all the current religious ideas of god very lacking. I used to want to be religious, but now I'm very much at peace as an atheist. like the PP I find the universe/nature awe-inspiring.

This is pretty much me. I had a close friend in middle school who was mildly religious and I joined her at church a few times out of curiosity and also went on a youth group trip. I liked the sense of community but never bought into the "faith" side. Around that same time I had some extended family members join a "born again" church and to me it they seemed like they went mad. Even now I really don't understand some of their actions. And they've been very hateful to me and other members of my family.

PP here - I can relate to that. Praying in tongues the whole bit, raving on about sin and how god will punish us all for our sins and how every natural event is because god is angry...yeah. it seems very odd to me too.

that said, I've known some religious people in my life who are fantastic people.

Well...

1. The speaking in tongues thing as it's practiced in pentecostal churches is not modeled on anything biblically. You can see the references to it in Acts as speaking a known language. This is not what is practiced in this strain of Christianity.
2. God will indeed punish unforgiven sin, but He gave us a way to be forgiven through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. However, Christians are told to judge fellow believers, because believers are both a living temple of God and because they are a testimony of their belief. But we are not told to judge unbelievers. You can see this in 1 Corinthians 5:11-12. We are all sinners, and Christians are told to offer the good news of Christ's forgiveness, not condemnation.
3. Jesus said bad things will happen in this world, but he cautioned people against thinking that everything is a judgment, as in Luke 13:1-5.

The problem is that many believers haven't learned Christian theology enough to represent it at all points. We are supposed to learn and know this so we can be good witnesses for the faith. But the solution is not to not believe but to learn what Christianity truly teaches.

I assume this is the reason that Trump enjoyed 80% of the evangelical vote?

I know, this is not a political threat...I'm sorry to bring it up. I promise I am not making assumptions about how you personally vote, PP. It's just I'm the atheist that great up evangelical (though it was called "fundamentalist" in the 90s) and so I do have a solid base of knowledge about what the Bible teaches. A Christian's life is their testimony and the strongest witness to the "truth" of the Bible. I still believe that, actually. In that the way one acts is a testament to what is in their hearts. And I do believe the message of Christ is worthy of following, I just lack the faith part.

And so with that, I am absolutely disgusted and appalled at the marriage of politics and modern American Christianity. It's not all Christians, obviously, but it's nearly all that I grew up knowing. And their testimony of late has made me even more at peace with state of nonbelief.

PP, I don't know you or what is in your heart. But as you are in an atheist here representing Christianity, I just need to make sure you understand how Christians are being perceived.

This is a nice, reasonable response. My belief is that we should put our trust in the LORD, not in men. I didn't vote in this last election. Both candidates were extremely distasteful to me. It was disheartening to see evangelical leaders stand up publicly with Trump, but it would also have been disheartening to see them stand up publicly with Clinton. But not everyone who professes a faith is a faithful disciple of that faith, or even genuine in their belief. I'm not judging them, or anyone else. Christians will indeed answer to Christ for how they lived out their faith here on Earth. But doing so poorly again reflects poorly on them, or it shows a lack of spiritual maturity. What it doesn't mean is that Christianity isn't true. We're all hypocrites to some extent. No one faithfully lives out their convictions at all times, and we should have humility about that in ourselves and not forget that about ourselves when we look down on others.

But if you look at the Gospel message of the Bible, our salvation is not based on how well we do being good or not being bad; it's based on whether we have faith in Christ. So it's good to focus on our faith and not worry so much about politics. We have to vote our consciences, and sometimes there are bad choices on both sides. Picking the lesser of two evils doesn't make you a bad Christian, but putting your faith in politicians might.

Different PP - the above is a nice, reasonable response too, describing a Christian perspective. It doesn't apply to atheists who don't believe in the Lord so therefore would not place trust in him. Atheists also would not look to the Bible for guidance and don't seek salvation, which is another concept in which they don't believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was 9.

I saw my parents decorate and wrap gifts for us during the holidays that year. There was always a "Santa Claus" is coming and you better be good or else you won't get presents theme and then I found the gifts and realize my parents were doing it. And when I realized that adults were putting in so much effort into making "Santa Claus" real- including the concept that only believers get presents- I asked my Sunday school teacher about it. In class. In front of everyone. Loudly.

And the question wasn't whether Santa was real, but whether the efforts in making us believe in Santa was different than with the efforts in making us believe in Jesus. The teachers weren't able to answer this question. She just said both Jesus and Santa were testaments of goodness and faith.

And therefore - by a lack of an answer to how they were different confirmed the lie by equating them with goodness. And also told a young girl that it's okay to lie for the greater good.

Which as we know by the New Testament, is not true. Hypocrisy and lies are hated by god.

So I just lost it and told my dad that I didn't want to celebrate Christmas anymore or go to church. When he asked why and I told him, he told me that we would still celebrate Christmas as a family but with no church. But I wasn't allowed to tell my little brother, who also figured it out later from someone else.

I got tons of presents every year thereafter, even as a heathen, FWIW. Nothing changed but we did have more fun as a family- just no mention of god. We aren't allowed to talk about our lack of churchgoing with grandma though.

So sad that a probably well-meaning teacher made such a careless, false remark that set you on this path, PP.