Discover Atheism

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in an atheist country (USSR), flirted with the idea of being religious when we moved here, but it never clicked.

I don't discount some sort of higher power/things we don't understand, but the idea that there is a human-like God "up there" who requires adoration and obedience seems laughable to me. Either there is a God that is all-powerful and all-knowing, in which case why would he/she even bother to care about individual humans, in which case in turn why would I bother to care about him/her, OR this deity is somehow not all-powerful and dependent on us for existence, but that's not what most religions teach us, so it seems like a weird logical lapse.

In any case, I take comfort in the material world, in treating other people around us with respect and humanity, not in the idea that there is something out there that personally cares about me, yet has created a world full of suffering and injustices.

PP, may I respectfully (and I mean that) suggest that one does not "flirt with the idea of being religious." Perhaps that is where you got off on the wrong foot.

And how sad to have to take comfort in the material world.

Not pp. but you are quite clearly projecting your own fears and anxieties on atheists - or at least this atheist in particular.

It was incredibly freeing and liberating for me when I finally acknowledged that there were no gods, no religion, and no afterlife. It made me feel comfort in my own capacity to try and have greater control over my life. It brought me peace that while there are some unsavory people (due to their own choosing, not blaming it on "the devil"), there are also many wonderful kind, generous, and loving people - of their own choosing and volition (not because of some god). People are capable of creating a tremendous amount of good in this world - we're complicit beings in our life. And that's all we have- the here and the now - so it encourages me to make it count in *this* one life.

It was hugely freeing to me to come to this realization, and brought me a tremendous sense of peace. Not sadness in the slight!

that's how I feel too. I feel liberated by atheism and at peace. I volunteer with the dying once a week, I focus on my family, I try to be a good person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists at what age did you discovered that there wasn't a "God"or that any deity did not exist? Was it through a life changing experience, your parents, your understanding of science, etc? Also, did you get ostracize or rejected by your family and friends once you told them that you were an Atheist? Have you ever suffer discrimination because of your belief or lack of?

I have yet to discover there is no god -- that would be impossible - like discovering there is no Zeus. I stopped believing in god as an adult when I learned about religion from an academic point of view. And of course, I never believed in Zeus. I was told he was a mythical character from the beginning -- a god people believed in long ago, but not anymore.

I learned there are many gods out there that people still believe in and that in some cases, e.g., Christianity, there are strong punishments for not believing (hell) and strong rewards for believing (heaven) but both are ideas, not actual places. And while there is no way to prove that God doesn't exist, there is no way to prove he doesn't. I learned lots of other things but those were the main reasons for no longer believing.

Speaking as a theist, I think this is the most sensible post in the thread and I agree that atheism is a system of belief, or organized non-belief, rather than discovering a scientific fact.

Also, there are still people who believe in Zeus, but that's neither here nor there.

+1. I'm another theist who has no patience with evangelical theology or posting in caps. I agree, however, that OP's concept of "discovering" atheism rests on the premise that it's a system of belief--in the non-existence of a God--that rests on something unprovable, i.e. the non-existence of God. The fact that atheism has no established tenets for how to behave doesn't take away from that.

This--inability to prove the non-existence of God--is the reason some atheist thinkers like Dawkins describe themselves as agnostic instead of atheist. I think Dawkins has said he's 99% atheist but there's always that 1% uncertainty so he's technically agnostic.

Just a small correction: many Christians don't actually believe that non-believers will be punished.

Poster deemed 'reasonable" here -- I don't think you're in a position to determine what OP meant by "discovering" atheism. I took it to mean, as op described, how different people came to be atheists. And as we've seen by the responses, it has happened in different ways. This is something I had already learned from meeting other atheists, but can see it would be a question for someone thinking about atheism for the first time, from the point of view of a believer.

As for Dawkins, he's being precise in a way most atheists and agnostics are not, in part, I think, because they (and most people) don't really understand the terms. Briefly, agnostic means not knowing and atheist means not believing. It does NOT mean "knowing" there is no god. Regarding any supernatural being, humans technically can't know for sure, because such beings are invisible.

Atheists don't believe in god the way they don't believe in other invisible beings, like fairies and gremlins and Santa. I know it offends religious believers to have god lumped in with that group, but being invisible and impossible to prove using the scientific method are the common elements of supernatural beings, irrespective of their importance in society. Atheists reject all of them. Technically, atheists are "agnostic atheists" - they don't know and they don't believe. And some will call themselves that. Some people who call themselves agnostic feel more comfortable in the "don't know" category. It doesn't sound as harsh and may imply that they are searching for god -- and maybe some of them are.

Atheism as been improperly defined as "Knowing there is no God." I don't know one atheist who thinks this way. Most are science-oriented and realize that God can't be proven. But atheists may also be as unmotivated to disprove god’s existence as religious people are unmotivated to disprove Santa’s existence. Speaking for myself, believing that god is real is as farfetched as believing fairy tales are real.

I suspect the idea of atheist certainty is sometimes taught in church (along with atheists being mean, bitter and without morals). It's easy to see how someone who doesn't believe in god but who is kind, pleasant and moral might prefer the term agnostic over atheist. I prefer the “atheist” and I know some people who formerly called themselves agnostic, are now using the term atheist. It's more precise and helps to show people that atheists do not fit the stereotype that society has placed on us.

You write that you "don't know one atheist who thinks" that atheism is "knowing there is no God." I'm not quibbling that you might not think that way, but just a quick glance through this thread will show posters who ask when you "discovered" there is no God, or that they have "100 percent certainty" that there's no God, and I've seen many posts on other threads that express this lack of belief in similar terms.

Also, your efforts to connect lack of belief in a Christian God with fairies and Santa and Zeus -- that it's all a lack of belief in all of it -- doesn't seem quite genuine to me. I've been reading this message board for a long time, and the Muslim threads almost never (if at all, but I can't recall one) invite atheist comment. I've never seen an atheist weigh in on the pagan threads. Or the Hindu ones. Or anything at all about Santa Claus. Again, there may be a rare instance, so I don't want to state it categorically, but I just can't bring to mind any times I've seen that.

But the Christian threads? Open season. So it sounds a bit magnanimous here in what you wrote, and I'm not impugning you if you actually feel that way, but it seems to me that puts you in a vast majority (but I bet even you don't respond on the Muslim posts or the pagan posts).

As a Christian, it's our worldview that this is because the Christian God calls for a moral accountability to someone other than self. Most of the Christians I know and have as friends struggle with many things that we have faith are sins because the Bible tells us that. It's not because we feel superior or want to beat people over the heads. In fact, many of the most sanctimonious people I encounter are just as puritanical from a secular perspective as many Christians are from a religious one. The difference with Christian belief in sin is that our guidepost comes -- or should come -- from the LORD. You might be a moral atheist, but the Bible says that none of us is righteous, and it's the acceptance of this as a fact for ourselves that leads Christians to love God, out of the mercy that He showed us in provided forgiveness through Christ. I'm sure there are Christians who believe out of a desire for "fire insurance," as one PP put it, but many of us love God because we know He's better than us but loves us anyway.

But for a moral atheist? What is your guidepost? How do you know it doesn't truly serve yourself rather than others? And when you fail, isn't it nice that there's no judgment for you for not acting morally toward others? A truly Biblically oriented Christian doesn't think he gets off free when he sins, and the Bible doesn't teach that. So we submit to the law of God and ask Him to help us do what he wants from us. Again, some of us are really bad at that -- and some say they're Christians when they're really not -- but that won't excuse even moral atheists from accounting for their own actions to the God who created them.

or Zeus. Or Kali.

Honestly, none of this matters to me as an atheist. Why should it? Like I said, I try to be a good person, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PS -- I know some believers don't think atheists will be punished, but their religion - at least Christianity - teaches internal punishment.

Internal or eternal?

Eternal damnation is how I was raised, a very literal heaven with pearly gates and streets of gold and a literal hell with hellfire and brimstone, wailing and gnashing of teeth. But I've also heard taught that hell is just the absence of god.

meant to say Eternal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists at what age did you discovered that there wasn't a "God"or that any deity did not exist? Was it through a life changing experience, your parents, your understanding of science, etc? Also, did you get ostracize or rejected by your family and friends once you told them that you were an Atheist? Have you ever suffer discrimination because of your belief or lack of?

I have yet to discover there is no god -- that would be impossible - like discovering there is no Zeus. I stopped believing in god as an adult when I learned about religion from an academic point of view. And of course, I never believed in Zeus. I was told he was a mythical character from the beginning -- a god people believed in long ago, but not anymore.

I learned there are many gods out there that people still believe in and that in some cases, e.g., Christianity, there are strong punishments for not believing (hell) and strong rewards for believing (heaven) but both are ideas, not actual places. And while there is no way to prove that God doesn't exist, there is no way to prove he doesn't. I learned lots of other things but those were the main reasons for no longer believing.

Speaking as a theist, I think this is the most sensible post in the thread and I agree that atheism is a system of belief, or organized non-belief, rather than discovering a scientific fact.

Also, there are still people who believe in Zeus, but that's neither here nor there.

+1. I'm another theist who has no patience with evangelical theology or posting in caps. I agree, however, that OP's concept of "discovering" atheism rests on the premise that it's a system of belief--in the non-existence of a God--that rests on something unprovable, i.e. the non-existence of God. The fact that atheism has no established tenets for how to behave doesn't take away from that.

This--inability to prove the non-existence of God--is the reason some atheist thinkers like Dawkins describe themselves as agnostic instead of atheist. I think Dawkins has said he's 99% atheist but there's always that 1% uncertainty so he's technically agnostic.

Just a small correction: many Christians don't actually believe that non-believers will be punished.

Poster deemed 'reasonable" here -- I don't think you're in a position to determine what OP meant by "discovering" atheism. I took it to mean, as op described, how different people came to be atheists. And as we've seen by the responses, it has happened in different ways. This is something I had already learned from meeting other atheists, but can see it would be a question for someone thinking about atheism for the first time, from the point of view of a believer.

As for Dawkins, he's being precise in a way most atheists and agnostics are not, in part, I think, because they (and most people) don't really understand the terms. Briefly, agnostic means not knowing and atheist means not believing. It does NOT mean "knowing" there is no god. Regarding any supernatural being, humans technically can't know for sure, because such beings are invisible.

Atheists don't believe in god the way they don't believe in other invisible beings, like fairies and gremlins and Santa. I know it offends religious believers to have god lumped in with that group, but being invisible and impossible to prove using the scientific method are the common elements of supernatural beings, irrespective of their importance in society. Atheists reject all of them. Technically, atheists are "agnostic atheists" - they don't know and they don't believe. And some will call themselves that. Some people who call themselves agnostic feel more comfortable in the "don't know" category. It doesn't sound as harsh and may imply that they are searching for god -- and maybe some of them are.

Atheism as been improperly defined as "Knowing there is no God." I don't know one atheist who thinks this way. Most are science-oriented and realize that God can't be proven. But atheists may also be as unmotivated to disprove god’s existence as religious people are unmotivated to disprove Santa’s existence. Speaking for myself, believing that god is real is as farfetched as believing fairy tales are real.

I suspect the idea of atheist certainty is sometimes taught in church (along with atheists being mean, bitter and without morals). It's easy to see how someone who doesn't believe in god but who is kind, pleasant and moral might prefer the term agnostic over atheist. I prefer the “atheist” and I know some people who formerly called themselves agnostic, are now using the term atheist. It's more precise and helps to show people that atheists do not fit the stereotype that society has placed on us.

You write that you "don't know one atheist who thinks" that atheism is "knowing there is no God." I'm not quibbling that you might not think that way, but just a quick glance through this thread will show posters who ask when you "discovered" there is no God, or that they have "100 percent certainty" that there's no God, and I've seen many posts on other threads that express this lack of belief in similar terms.

Also, your efforts to connect lack of belief in a Christian God with fairies and Santa and Zeus -- that it's all a lack of belief in all of it -- doesn't seem quite genuine to me. I've been reading this message board for a long time, and the Muslim threads almost never (if at all, but I can't recall one) invite atheist comment. I've never seen an atheist weigh in on the pagan threads. Or the Hindu ones. Or anything at all about Santa Claus. Again, there may be a rare instance, so I don't want to state it categorically, but I just can't bring to mind any times I've seen that.

But the Christian threads? Open season. So it sounds a bit magnanimous here in what you wrote, and I'm not impugning you if you actually feel that way, but it seems to me that puts you in a vast majority (but I bet even you don't respond on the Muslim posts or the pagan posts).

As a Christian, it's our worldview that this is because the Christian God calls for a moral accountability to someone other than self. Most of the Christians I know and have as friends struggle with many things that we have faith are sins because the Bible tells us that. It's not because we feel superior or want to beat people over the heads. In fact, many of the most sanctimonious people I encounter are just as puritanical from a secular perspective as many Christians are from a religious one. The difference with Christian belief in sin is that our guidepost comes -- or should come -- from the LORD. You might be a moral atheist, but the Bible says that none of us is righteous, and it's the acceptance of this as a fact for ourselves that leads Christians to love God, out of the mercy that He showed us in provided forgiveness through Christ. I'm sure there are Christians who believe out of a desire for "fire insurance," as one PP put it, but many of us love God because we know He's better than us but loves us anyway.

But for a moral atheist? What is your guidepost? How do you know it doesn't truly serve yourself rather than others? And when you fail, isn't it nice that there's no judgment for you for not acting morally toward others? A truly Biblically oriented Christian doesn't think he gets off free when he sins, and the Bible doesn't teach that. So we submit to the law of God and ask Him to help us do what he wants from us. Again, some of us are really bad at that -- and some say they're Christians when they're really not -- but that won't excuse even moral atheists from accounting for their own actions to the God who created them.

Please point out the atheist posters who said they were 100% certain there was no god -- I couldn't find any. And it was OP -- who did not say she was an atheist - but just asking atheists for information - who used the terminology about discovery: “Atheists at what age did you discovered that there wasn't a "God"or that any deity did not exist? “

Atheists responded with their individual experiences discussing how they stopped believing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Atheists at what age did you discovered that there wasn't a "God"or that any deity did not exist? Was it through a life changing experience, your parents, your understanding of science, etc? Also, did you get ostracize or rejected by your family and friends once you told them that you were an Atheist? Have you ever suffer discrimination because of your belief or lack of?

I have yet to discover there is no god -- that would be impossible - like discovering there is no Zeus. I stopped believing in god as an adult when I learned about religion from an academic point of view. And of course, I never believed in Zeus. I was told he was a mythical character from the beginning -- a god people believed in long ago, but not anymore.

I learned there are many gods out there that people still believe in and that in some cases, e.g., Christianity, there are strong punishments for not believing (hell) and strong rewards for believing (heaven) but both are ideas, not actual places. And while there is no way to prove that God doesn't exist, there is no way to prove he doesn't. I learned lots of other things but those were the main reasons for no longer believing.

Speaking as a theist, I think this is the most sensible post in the thread and I agree that atheism is a system of belief, or organized non-belief, rather than discovering a scientific fact.

Also, there are still people who believe in Zeus, but that's neither here nor there.

+1. I'm another theist who has no patience with evangelical theology or posting in caps. I agree, however, that OP's concept of "discovering" atheism rests on the premise that it's a system of belief--in the non-existence of a God--that rests on something unprovable, i.e. the non-existence of God. The fact that atheism has no established tenets for how to behave doesn't take away from that.

This--inability to prove the non-existence of God--is the reason some atheist thinkers like Dawkins describe themselves as agnostic instead of atheist. I think Dawkins has said he's 99% atheist but there's always that 1% uncertainty so he's technically agnostic.

Just a small correction: many Christians don't actually believe that non-believers will be punished.

Poster deemed 'reasonable" here -- I don't think you're in a position to determine what OP meant by "discovering" atheism. I took it to mean, as op described, how different people came to be atheists. And as we've seen by the responses, it has happened in different ways. This is something I had already learned from meeting other atheists, but can see it would be a question for someone thinking about atheism for the first time, from the point of view of a believer.

As for Dawkins, he's being precise in a way most atheists and agnostics are not, in part, I think, because they (and most people) don't really understand the terms. Briefly, agnostic means not knowing and atheist means not believing. It does NOT mean "knowing" there is no god. Regarding any supernatural being, humans technically can't know for sure, because such beings are invisible.

Atheists don't believe in god the way they don't believe in other invisible beings, like fairies and gremlins and Santa. I know it offends religious believers to have god lumped in with that group, but being invisible and impossible to prove using the scientific method are the common elements of supernatural beings, irrespective of their importance in society. Atheists reject all of them. Technically, atheists are "agnostic atheists" - they don't know and they don't believe. And some will call themselves that. Some people who call themselves agnostic feel more comfortable in the "don't know" category. It doesn't sound as harsh and may imply that they are searching for god -- and maybe some of them are.

Atheism as been improperly defined as "Knowing there is no God." I don't know one atheist who thinks this way. Most are science-oriented and realize that God can't be proven. But atheists may also be as unmotivated to disprove god’s existence as religious people are unmotivated to disprove Santa’s existence. Speaking for myself, believing that god is real is as farfetched as believing fairy tales are real.

I suspect the idea of atheist certainty is sometimes taught in church (along with atheists being mean, bitter and without morals). It's easy to see how someone who doesn't believe in god but who is kind, pleasant and moral might prefer the term agnostic over atheist. I prefer the “atheist” and I know some people who formerly called themselves agnostic, are now using the term atheist. It's more precise and helps to show people that atheists do not fit the stereotype that society has placed on us.

You write that you "don't know one atheist who thinks" that atheism is "knowing there is no God." I'm not quibbling that you might not think that way, but just a quick glance through this thread will show posters who ask when you "discovered" there is no God, or that they have "100 percent certainty" that there's no God, and I've seen many posts on other threads that express this lack of belief in similar terms.

Also, your efforts to connect lack of belief in a Christian God with fairies and Santa and Zeus -- that it's all a lack of belief in all of it -- doesn't seem quite genuine to me. I've been reading this message board for a long time, and the Muslim threads almost never (if at all, but I can't recall one) invite atheist comment. I've never seen an atheist weigh in on the pagan threads. Or the Hindu ones. Or anything at all about Santa Claus. Again, there may be a rare instance, so I don't want to state it categorically, but I just can't bring to mind any times I've seen that.

But the Christian threads? Open season. So it sounds a bit magnanimous here in what you wrote, and I'm not impugning you if you actually feel that way, but it seems to me that puts you in a vast majority (but I bet even you don't respond on the Muslim posts or the pagan posts).

As a Christian, it's our worldview that this is because the Christian God calls for a moral accountability to someone other than self. Most of the Christians I know and have as friends struggle with many things that we have faith are sins because the Bible tells us that. It's not because we feel superior or want to beat people over the heads. In fact, many of the most sanctimonious people I encounter are just as puritanical from a secular perspective as many Christians are from a religious one. The difference with Christian belief in sin is that our guidepost comes -- or should come -- from the LORD. You might be a moral atheist, but the Bible says that none of us is righteous, and it's the acceptance of this as a fact for ourselves that leads Christians to love God, out of the mercy that He showed us in provided forgiveness through Christ. I'm sure there are Christians who believe out of a desire for "fire insurance," as one PP put it, but many of us love God because we know He's better than us but loves us anyway.

But for a moral atheist? What is your guidepost? How do you know it doesn't truly serve yourself rather than others? And when you fail, isn't it nice that there's no judgment for you for not acting morally toward others? A truly Biblically oriented Christian doesn't think he gets off free when he sins, and the Bible doesn't teach that. So we submit to the law of God and ask Him to help us do what he wants from us. Again, some of us are really bad at that -- and some say they're Christians when they're really not -- but that won't excuse even moral atheists from accounting for their own actions to the God who created them.

Atheists don't believe that God created them and don't expect a heavenly reward for being moral or an eternal punishment for not believing in god. We are moral because it is a good way to live and a part of human nature.

[Anonymous]

If anyone knew for certain there will be no religions.
It's much simpler. I believe that there is no god or any higher power. I don't think about, it is not a part of my life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Atheists at what age did you discovered that there wasn't a "God"or that any deity did not exist? Was it through a life changing experience, your parents, your understanding of science, etc? Also, did you get ostracize or rejected by your family and friends once you told them that you were an Atheist? Have you ever suffer discrimination because of your belief or lack of?

I was going through a really awful time in life as a teen, and begged and begged god to help me. I really thought he was there, listening, but no help came. Things only got worse. I realized you can't hope for supernatural help, and it was a waste of time and energy. And I figured if there was a god, then he didn't deserve anything from me anyway. As I got older, I realized how illogical it is, and then in college and grad school studied anthropology, and just came to an understanding of religion that kind of precluded the possibility to believe in any mythology.

[Anonymous]

As a Christian, it's our worldview that this is because the Christian God calls for a moral accountability to someone other than self. Most of the Christians I know and have as friends struggle with many things that we have faith are sins because the Bible tells us that. It's not because we feel superior or want to beat people over the heads. In fact, many of the most sanctimonious people I encounter are just as puritanical from a secular perspective as many Christians are from a religious one. The difference with Christian belief in sin is that our guidepost comes -- or should come -- from the LORD. You might be a moral atheist, but the Bible says that none of us is righteous, and it's the acceptance of this as a fact for ourselves that leads Christians to love God, out of the mercy that He showed us in provided forgiveness through Christ. I'm sure there are Christians who believe out of a desire for "fire insurance," as one PP put it, but many of us love God because we know He's better than us but loves us anyway.

But for a moral atheist? What is your guidepost? How do you know it doesn't truly serve yourself rather than others? And when you fail, isn't it nice that there's no judgment for you for not acting morally toward others? A truly Biblically oriented Christian doesn't think he gets off free when he sins, and the Bible doesn't teach that. So we submit to the law of God and ask Him to help us do what he wants from us. Again, some of us are really bad at that -- and some say they're Christians when they're really not -- but that won't excuse even moral atheists from accounting for their own actions to the God who created them.

or Zeus. Or Kali.

Honestly, none of this matters to me as an atheist. Why should it? Like I said, I try to be a good person, etc.

Exactly. I know when I am being an asshole, when my actions are hurting others. And there's many a study that shows that service to others brings the most happiness. We can dither over if whether acting in a way that generates happiness is self-serving or not, but bring happy is often synonymous with contentedness. Content people, those who are at peace with themselves, generally don't murder or steal. For humanity to thrive in balance, people have to mostly not be an asshole. And mostly we're not. That's a gross over-simplification, but you get my point.

I'm a little baffled when Christians ask about ones moral guideposts. Do Christians need guideposts to be good? Like, how do you imagine you'd be without your faith? I mean, if somehow it was proven that God didn't exist would you go out and murder? Steal? I doubt that you would.

To me all this is just...obvious. Not to say that I have it all figured out, I absolutely don't. Humans are complex and often contradictory. And there are really big problems in this world that "don't be an asshole" won't fix. It's just where I begin.

I'm sure that your Christian faith feels just as obvious to you. Right?

But the thing about atheism, the thing that I actually feel a sense of peace over, is that we both feel this obvious things that inspires us to be better people. It's just a bit awkward that you think I am going to hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

As a Christian, it's our worldview that this is because the Christian God calls for a moral accountability to someone other than self. Most of the Christians I know and have as friends struggle with many things that we have faith are sins because the Bible tells us that. It's not because we feel superior or want to beat people over the heads. In fact, many of the most sanctimonious people I encounter are just as puritanical from a secular perspective as many Christians are from a religious one. The difference with Christian belief in sin is that our guidepost comes -- or should come -- from the LORD. You might be a moral atheist, but the Bible says that none of us is righteous, and it's the acceptance of this as a fact for ourselves that leads Christians to love God, out of the mercy that He showed us in provided forgiveness through Christ. I'm sure there are Christians who believe out of a desire for "fire insurance," as one PP put it, but many of us love God because we know He's better than us but loves us anyway.

But for a moral atheist? What is your guidepost? How do you know it doesn't truly serve yourself rather than others? And when you fail, isn't it nice that there's no judgment for you for not acting morally toward others? A truly Biblically oriented Christian doesn't think he gets off free when he sins, and the Bible doesn't teach that. So we submit to the law of God and ask Him to help us do what he wants from us. Again, some of us are really bad at that -- and some say they're Christians when they're really not -- but that won't excuse even moral atheists from accounting for their own actions to the God who created them.

or Zeus. Or Kali.

Honestly, none of this matters to me as an atheist. Why should it? Like I said, I try to be a good person, etc.

Exactly. I know when I am being an asshole, when my actions are hurting others. And there's many a study that shows that service to others brings the most happiness. We can dither over if whether acting in a way that generates happiness is self-serving or not, but bring happy is often synonymous with contentedness. Content people, those who are at peace with themselves, generally don't murder or steal. For humanity to thrive in balance, people have to mostly not be an asshole. And mostly we're not. That's a gross over-simplification, but you get my point.

I'm a little baffled when Christians ask about ones moral guideposts. Do Christians need guideposts to be good? Like, how do you imagine you'd be without your faith? I mean, if somehow it was proven that God didn't exist would you go out and murder? Steal? I doubt that you would.

To me all this is just...obvious. Not to say that I have it all figured out, I absolutely don't. Humans are complex and often contradictory. And there are really big problems in this world that "don't be an asshole" won't fix. It's just where I begin.

I'm sure that your Christian faith feels just as obvious to you. Right?

But the thing about atheism, the thing that I actually feel a sense of peace over, is that we both feel this obvious things that inspires us to be better people. It's just a bit awkward that you think I am going to hell.

There are also scientific studies that show empathy and a sense of justice are innate in many of us. i.e, you don't need religion to be a good person. And vice versa - being religious is not going to stop a bad person being a shit. There's plenty of examples of that too right?

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thanks for some of the responses. However, can I ask the religious folks to sit this one out. This post was not for you. You're only proving why people abstain from religion. Just calm down and allow Atheists to speak about their experiences. I didn't post my questions for you to debate God or religion with Atheists. If you can please refrain from the urge to debate with Atheists, then I will greatly appreciate it! I want this thread to remain civil.

I truly appreciate the Atheists who have responded. I can really relate with those those of you who mentioned nature and doing good deeds. Some of the posters who have posted have had similar experiences as I did growing up in a religious household. I suppressed my thoughts every since I was a child to appease my parents. However, now as an adult my feelings have resurfaced. I just wanted to know how did Atheists come to that same point in their own lives that's all. I'm not here to offend you or to cause a stir. It's just me coming to the realization that there probably isn't a God. I don't know for sure. So, maybe I'm an Agnostic. However, one thing that I do know for sure is that I wasted viable time in my life on religion and obsessing about the existence of God. It's just seems that the journey that I'm going through has giving me a sense of freedom that I have never had before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for some of the responses. However, can I ask the religious folks to sit this one out. This post was not for you. You're only proving why people abstain from religion. Just calm down and allow Atheists to speak about their experiences. I didn't post my questions for you to debate God or religion with Atheists. If you can please refrain from the urge to debate with Atheists, then I will greatly appreciate it! I want this thread to remain civil.

I truly appreciate the Atheists who have responded. I can really relate with those those of you who mentioned nature and doing good deeds. Some of the posters who have posted have had similar experiences as I did growing up in a religious household. I suppressed my thoughts every since I was a child to appease my parents. However, now as an adult my feelings have resurfaced. I just wanted to know how did Atheists come to that same point in their own lives that's all. I'm not here to offend you or to cause a stir. It's just me coming to the realization that there probably isn't a God. I don't know for sure. So, maybe I'm an Agnostic. However, one thing that I do know for sure is that I wasted viable time in my life on religion and obsessing about the existence of God. It's just seems that the journey that I'm going through has giving me a sense of freedom that I have never had before.

Hello, OP – nice to know this discussion is helping you. Regarding the difference between atheist and agnostic, please see 11:17 which says, among other things: “Briefly, agnostic means not knowing and atheist means not believing. It does NOT mean "knowing" there is no god. Regarding any supernatural being, humans technically can't know for sure, because such beings are invisible.”

I would suggest that you don't focus whether you're atheist or agnostic - just focus on what you do or do not believe. Then call yourself whatever makes you comfortable - atheist, agnostic, non-theist, non-believer, nothing, "none" or whatever.

I don't know "for sure" (I think that's impossible, but I don't spend time wondering if god might really exist, either) and call myself an atheist. It's a personal choice. Aside from the fact that I don't think "agnostic" fits for me, I'm also interested in trying to sanitize the word "atheist." I look like and am a good person, so I want to educate people that an atheist can be a person like me. Sometimes I lose my nerve, though, and when asked about my religion, will just say that I'm not really religious anymore and used to be Catholic. That response is socially acceptable but I feel it's a cop-out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for some of the responses. However, can I ask the religious folks to sit this one out. This post was not for you. You're only proving why people abstain from religion. Just calm down and allow Atheists to speak about their experiences. I didn't post my questions for you to debate God or religion with Atheists. If you can please refrain from the urge to debate with Atheists, then I will greatly appreciate it! I want this thread to remain civil.

I truly appreciate the Atheists who have responded. I can really relate with those those of you who mentioned nature and doing good deeds. Some of the posters who have posted have had similar experiences as I did growing up in a religious household. I suppressed my thoughts every since I was a child to appease my parents. However, now as an adult my feelings have resurfaced. I just wanted to know how did Atheists come to that same point in their own lives that's all. I'm not here to offend you or to cause a stir. It's just me coming to the realization that there probably isn't a God. I don't know for sure. So, maybe I'm an Agnostic. However, one thing that I do know for sure is that I wasted viable time in my life on religion and obsessing about the existence of God. It's just seems that the journey that I'm going through has giving me a sense of freedom that I have never had before.

You're welcome.

If you are lucky to have a spouse that agrees with you, this can not just be freeing- it can bring you really close together. It focuses you to see more clearly without the haze of judgement, doubt, guilt and fear that some religions place on godlessness. And I hope that is the case for you.

If you can or want, find a secular humanist group. There are a couple in the area- they discuss ethics and volunteer and they have really amazing moral compasses. It gives even more clarity and support IRL. There is also the nice touch of not being hijacked by religious people trying to pity your coming out.

Good luck. May you find peace in your new life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thanks for some of the responses. However, can I ask the religious folks to sit this one out. This post was not for you. You're only proving why people abstain from religion. Just calm down and allow Atheists to speak about their experiences. I didn't post my questions for you to debate God or religion with Atheists. If you can please refrain from the urge to debate with Atheists, then I will greatly appreciate it! I want this thread to remain civil.

I truly appreciate the Atheists who have responded. I can really relate with those those of you who mentioned nature and doing good deeds. Some of the posters who have posted have had similar experiences as I did growing up in a religious household. I suppressed my thoughts every since I was a child to appease my parents. However, now as an adult my feelings have resurfaced. I just wanted to know how did Atheists come to that same point in their own lives that's all. I'm not here to offend you or to cause a stir. It's just me coming to the realization that there probably isn't a God. I don't know for sure. So, maybe I'm an Agnostic. However, one thing that I do know for sure is that I wasted viable time in my life on religion and obsessing about the existence of God. It's just seems that the journey that I'm going through has giving me a sense of freedom that I have never had before.

Hi OP...I'm the atheist PP who grew up in a religious and have engaged the Christian(s) on this thread. Save for the all caps posters there's been really respectful discussion that you should go back and read through them with a sense of curiosity. It's been a conversation rather than a debate. At least that's how I perceived it.

[Anonymous]

Always doubted. But it was probably around age 30 when I couldn't reconcile the existence of an omnipotent god when so many horrific things happen here on earth among humans.

It was when James Byrd was dragged to death by two racists, tied to their pickup truck by his ankles, that did it for me. Dragged down three miles of asphalt roads. He was awake during most of it, trying to keep his head up off the road. You tell me what kind of God lets that happen to his children.

[Anonymous]

Why are we capitalizing the word "atheist," as if it is a legitimate religion in and of itself?